attitude question

[motherhubbard]

Why are people with really crappy attitudes so proud of their crappy attitudes?

[Virgil]

Why are people with really crappy attitudes so proud of their crappy attitudes?

:lol: They love to wallow in their unhapiness. Your question reminds me of the openning paragraphs of Dostevesky's Notes From Underground:


I am a sick man. ... I am a spiteful man. I am an unattractive man. I believe my liver is diseased. However, I know nothing at all about my disease, and do not know for certain what ails me. I don't consult a doctor for it, and never have, though I have a respect for medicine and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, sufficiently so to respect medicine, anyway (I am well-educated enough not to be superstitious, but I am superstitious). No, I refuse to consult a doctor from spite. That you probably will not understand. Well, I understand it, though. Of course, I can't explain who it is precisely that I am mortifying in this case by my spite: I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "pay out" the doctors by not consulting them; I know better than anyone that by all this I am only injuring myself and no one else. But still, if I don't consult a doctor it is from spite. My liver is bad, well--let it get worse!

I have been going on like that for a long time--twenty years. Now I am forty. I used to be in the government service, but am no longer. I was a spiteful official. I was rude and took pleasure in being so. I did not take bribes, you see, so I was bound to find a recompense in that, at least. (A poor jest, but I will not scratch it out. I wrote it thinking it would sound very witty; but now that I have seen myself that I only wanted to show off in a despicable way, I will not scratch it out on purpose!)

When petitioners used to come for information to the table at which I sat, I used to grind my teeth at them, and felt intense enjoyment when I succeeded in making anybody unhappy. I almost did succeed. For the most part they were all timid people--of course, they were petitioners. But of the uppish ones there was one officer in particular I could not endure. He simply would not be humble, and clanked his sword in a disgusting way. I carried on a feud with him for eighteen months over that sword. At last I got the better of him. He left off clanking it. That happened in my youth, though.

But do you know, gentlemen, what was the chief point about my spite? Why, the whole point, the real sting of it lay in the fact that continually, even in the moment of the acutest spleen, I was inwardly conscious with shame that I was not only not a spiteful but not even an embittered man, that I was simply scaring sparrows at random and amusing myself by it. I might foam at the mouth, but bring me a doll to play with, give me a cup of tea with sugar in it, and maybe I should be appeased. I might even be genuinely touched, though probably I should grind my teeth at myself afterwards and lie awake at night with shame for months after. That was my way.

[glory]

It's true. Consider emotional people. they enjoy being dark and gloomy. Not my cup of tea though. Although of course everyone can get a little:flare:,:D,:bawling:, or :lol:

[papayahed]

beats the crap out of me..

[Epistemophile]

Why are people with really crappy attitudes so proud of their crappy attitudes?

because inordinate pride and crappiness go hand in hand!

[Scheherazade]

Why are people with really crappy attitudes so proud of their crappy attitudes?Because it seems like "attitude" (especially unpleasant ones) is the new black.

[LadyWentworth]

Because it seems like "attitude" (especially unpleasant ones) is the new black.
I have noticed this, too. It just seems to me that people are getting worse and worse with it.

[islandclimber]

Virgil.. perfect quote for the question! I like the newer translations more though... silly Constance Garnett.. makes it sound so stuffy, and unemotional haha.. maybe Constance had a crappy attitude?? :p

it all depends too, on what your idea of a crappy attitude is... :p maybe they are proud because they think that they have great attitudes... :D

[Lily Adams]

They want attention.

[Shalot]

Maybe they just think they're being tough...

Maybe they're just over it. It happens. There's only so much a person can put up with. Some respond by developing crappy attitudes.

[Niamh]

Because it seems like "attitude" (especially unpleasant ones) is the new black.
I think you are on to something there Scher. :nod:


I have noticed this, too. It just seems to me that people are getting worse and worse with it.
Yeah. Manners are out the window completely these days. Not really such thing as polite society anymore.


They want attention.
I would also agree with this. A lot of them do. Maybe it is to compensate being ignored at home?


Maybe they just think they're being tough...
Yeah around where i live, having a stinky attitude seems to make you be considered tough. There are a lot of stinky, crappy attitudes around here.


Maybe they're just over it. It happens. There's only so much a person can put up with. Some respond by developing crappy attitudes.
Yes, it could also be a defense thing. Tired of having abuse hurled at them.

[motherhubbard]

I spent the day in a fourth grade classroom yesterday. One little girl spent hours doing her hair. It was up, it was down, it was some up and some down. She flipped it forward and then back, forward, back, forward, back…. For hours and hours this went on. When she talked to other kids in the classroom she was hateful and snotty. She bobbed her head with attitude when she talked. She singled kids out to make them feel bad. She couldn’t work because she was too concerned with her social responsibilities and aspirations, bossing others around, and what her hair looked like.

At one point she was blabbing and flipping during class and I went and stood right over her with my leg touching her desk. I was taking notes and watching her. I think that this should have been enough to encourage a nine year old to work on their school work, but no. she just smiled with this very fake hateful smile and went on talking. When I didn’t smile back at her she smiled bigger and waved.

I asked her if she thought it was appropriate to be talking during class when she had so little done on her work. She said that she just had to tell so and so about the cheer they were working on as if I were out of line for intruding on her personal business. This girl is nine, imagine what it will be like when she’s 15.

This little girl is on a patch that that is supposed to help with ADHD. I don’t know what her home life is like. Often when a child is proud of their F you attitude their parents have the same kind of attitude. The parent is proud of their kids for being defiant- unless it’s directed toward them.

It’s one thing to be sick of everyone’s crap, who isn’t! But why are some people proud of being hateful, belittling, and belligerent?

[Shalot]

I spent the day in a fourth grade classroom yesterday. One little girl spent hours doing her hair. It was up, it was down, it was some up and some down. She flipped it forward and then back, forward, back, forward, back…. For hours and hours this went on. When she talked to other kids in the classroom she was hateful and snotty. She bobbed her head with attitude when she talked. She singled kids out to make them feel bad. She couldn’t work because she was too concerned with her social responsibilities and aspirations, bossing others around, and what her hair looked like.

At one point she was blabbing and flipping during class and I went and stood right over her with my leg touching her desk. I was taking notes and watching her. I think that this should have been enough to encourage a nine year old to work on their school work, but no. she just smiled with this very fake hateful smile and went on talking. When I didn’t smile back at her she smiled bigger and waved.

I asked her if she thought it was appropriate to be talking during class when she had so little done on her work. She said that she just had to tell so and so about the cheer they were working on as if I were out of line for intruding on her personal business. This girl is nine, imagine what it will be like when she’s 15.

This little girl is on a patch that that is supposed to help with ADHD. I don’t know what her home life is like. Often when a child is proud of their F you attitude their parents have the same kind of attitude. The parent is proud of their kids for being defiant- unless it’s directed toward them.

It’s one thing to be sick of everyone’s crap, who isn’t! But why are some people proud of being hateful, belittling, and belligerent?

she sounds like a little troll.

were you just substituting or what?

Great description. The way you tell it, I have a vivid image in my mind. Of course, I have no idea what you would do with some kid like that if you were in charge of the classroom full time. you would definitely have to establish firm authority. Since i don't know what the situation is, I am just guessing that she was regarding you as a substitute or transient figure so she didn't have to do her work while you were there.

[Virgil]

Virgil.. perfect quote for the question! I like the newer translations more though... silly Constance Garnett.. makes it sound so stuffy, and unemotional haha.. maybe Constance had a crappy attitude?? :p

:lol: Well this is what I found electronically.

[applepie]

I spent the day in a fourth grade classroom yesterday. One little girl spent hours doing her hair. It was up, it was down, it was some up and some down. She flipped it forward and then back, forward, back, forward, back…. For hours and hours this went on. When she talked to other kids in the classroom she was hateful and snotty. She bobbed her head with attitude when she talked. She singled kids out to make them feel bad. She couldn’t work because she was too concerned with her social responsibilities and aspirations, bossing others around, and what her hair looked like.

At one point she was blabbing and flipping during class and I went and stood right over her with my leg touching her desk. I was taking notes and watching her. I think that this should have been enough to encourage a nine year old to work on their school work, but no. she just smiled with this very fake hateful smile and went on talking. When I didn’t smile back at her she smiled bigger and waved.

I asked her if she thought it was appropriate to be talking during class when she had so little done on her work. She said that she just had to tell so and so about the cheer they were working on as if I were out of line for intruding on her personal business. This girl is nine, imagine what it will be like when she’s 15.

This little girl is on a patch that that is supposed to help with ADHD. I don’t know what her home life is like. Often when a child is proud of their F you attitude their parents have the same kind of attitude. The parent is proud of their kids for being defiant- unless it’s directed toward them.

It’s one thing to be sick of everyone’s crap, who isn’t! But why are some people proud of being hateful, belittling, and belligerent?

What a horrid story. It brings back many bad memories of school. Never could stand the kids who acted like that. Anyhow, why is attitude in??? My most common sense answer is that discipline is out. Somewhere along the way it has not only become discouraged to discipline your children, but often you are encouraged to not. There is a "kids will be kids" thought, that I can agree with to an extent, but often I just think it is a desire to be lazy. The result is rotten, bratty, children that will then grow into attitudinal adults who feel the world should be handed to them on a silver platter. I know all kids are not like this, and by no means do I consider this the norm (so please no one take offense), but it is becoming a much larger segment of society that not only accepts this type of behavior but encourages it.

[motherhubbard]

I was observing for a practicum. I'm working on an education degree. Her teacher was in the room. But, there are over 20 kids that need her attention.

Virgil- That really did fit the question.

[Shalot]

I was observing for a practicum. I'm working on an education degree. Her teacher was in the room. But, there are over 20 kids that need her attention.



If I ran the world, here is what would happen: School would not be mandatory for all children. By law, all children would be required to report to school to begin with, and as they displayed behaviour such as what you describe, they would be removed from the school and put to work for however many hours a day they spend in the classroom. The work would consist of menial tasks such as doing dishes at the school, or picking up trash along the highway (all under close supervision of course).

They'd have the opportunity to return to school and then if they continued to engage in such behaviour, they would be sent back to the highway litter crew.

It's a good thing I'm not in charge. Actually, I think that's a terrible idea and it would never happen, but it's so frustrating to me to hear about the crap that goes on at school. There are children who do nothing more than detract from everyone else's learning with that kind of behavior.

And what is up with all this ADHD ADD stuff? How many kids have been diagnosed with that? Her patch is not working, obviously. Maybe she needs special education. She should have to sit in the classroom all day with the kid who has to wear a helmet to school. Her behaviour could be treated as a disability. After all, she does have the ADHD patch.

Placement in special ed would remove the socializing aspect from her time spent in the classroom. Putting her in special ed would make it known to her that her behavior is not acceptable.

That too would never fly, because her parents would raise heck, which is probably why she isn't in special ed now.

I am thinking that the teacher needs to exert her authority by removing this child from the general classroom. Perhaps a time-out area in a desk behind a screen, where she can't talk to anyone would be an appropriate measure. Maybe they could enclose her in a three way screen in the front row with her desk pointed toward the blackboard (or I guess these days it's the dry erase board). That would be embarrassing, and might shame her out of that behaviour.

I do remember the 4th grade and the teacher we had was downright scary. No one would dare act like that little girl in her classroom. Maybe teachers don't have the authority to enforce the rules in their own classrooms anymore. That's not good.

[motherhubbard]

First of all, Shalot has my vote for world leader. Your plan isn’t unlike my discipline. My chicken house needs to have the chicken poop shoveled out of it and I’m just waiting for one of the kids to step out of line. I make them clean out the fridge, scrub baseboards, get behind the toilet, and any other crappy job I can think of.

Second of all, special ed kids are now spending most of their day in the classroom. It’s very hard to get into special ed. There are a lot of kids who really need special ed and extra help, but can’t get it because their performance is not below their IQ. It’s a mess and I don’t think there is a way to fix it.

The teacher had really good classroom management and the girl was punished for being disrespectful at one point. But that can’t change the conditioning she gets at home. I have a fourth grader and that crap just wouldn’t fly around here. There is only so much a teacher can do and still teach.

There are a million theories on ADHD and ADD. I don’t know. I think part of the problem is a decline in executive function. Fifty years ago most three year olds could stand still for 5 minutes and seven year olds could stand still forever. Today most seven year olds can’t make it five minutes. There is a correlations between executive function and imaginative play. Basically, the more toys and video games a kid has the less executive function and the more time the spend pretending, playing outside, and playing make believe with non toys that they’ve turned into play things like boxes, towels, and sticks, the more self control.

[Niamh]

thats why when i have kids, they are getting books. they can sit still then!