Thoughts on Mormonism

[Zefanis]

Hi

I am curious on everyones thoughts on Mormonism. I am currently doing a project for school about Mormons and looking for differing oppions that will give me an idea on what the general view on the religion is. Please respond if you wish

[Virgil]

Other than the multiple wives part, which has now been rejected, I see nothing different about it than any other religion. The Mormons I've known are extremely decent people, way above average in being nice and charitable. The only thing that gives me reservations is that some of their rituals seem to be secretive. I was invited to a Mormon wedding and the actual ceremony was held away from the guests. And I understand there are articles of clothing that they keep secret. What's with that? But these are minor things. Every Mormon I have ever known was incredibly moral.

[papayahed]

I don't know much about the Mormons (That's why I stole the book) and I only know one mormon so I can't really base the whole religion on one guy but I do think the whole golden plate story is a little sketchy.

[billyjack]

turns out that out of all the religions in the world, the mormons have it right. that's, the mormons--south park

seriously though, watch the south park episode about the mormon founder joseph smith. hilariously informative

[remy_duvalle]

Hi

I am curious on everyones thoughts on Mormonism. I am currently doing a project for school about Mormons and looking for differing oppions that will give me an idea on what the general view on the religion is. Please respond if you wish

Compared to other Christian religions, Mormonism isn't much (any) crazier.

Having grown up in a Mormon family, I do obviously have some problems with it. But they're problems that I'd have in almost any other religion as well... as all of them have their holes.

One misconception about Mormons is that they're NOT Christian. This is FALSE. They are very much Christian. However, there are 2 major differences between what Mormons believe and what the majority of Christians believe...

1- Mormons believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate entities that work together as the Godhead with 1 purpose and overall goal (salvation/testing of Mankind). Where as, this is pretty much the same in other Christian religions, only they believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 1 and the same person. While they still call Jesus the SON of God, they still believe that Jesus = God.

2- Mormons believe that after Christ's resurrection that he went to the American Continents to teach the Nephites/Lamenites (civilizations from The Book of Mormon that supposedly explain where native americans came from). Whereas other Christians believe that Christ went to heaven after his resurrection.

There are a few practices of the Mormon church that many people find odd. However, these are the same people that find and point out absurdity in other religions, but never their own. To me, these practices don't seem much crazier than pretty much any other crazy ritual of any other religion... but here are a couple:

1- Baptism for the dead. Once members of the LDS church turn a certain age they can begin going to Temples and doing "Baptisms for the Dead". This practice is basically the belief that people in the afterlife have sought physical baptism, but were never given the chance before death. Therefore, in the name of the deceased person, a volunteer member gets baptized. Thus, granting the deceased person the benefits of being baptized into the church.
- Now, the ordinance here, to me, isn't that crazy. My only problem is that it they can baptize people that would probably never have actually been baptized. However, they claim these names are given from a higher power, thus convincing members that these "spirits" have asked for it in the afterlife (or "spirit prison").

2- Blessings. Now, these basically happen in all Christian religions... but some find it odd how Mormons handle it. Mormons tend to get many Priesthood holders to stand around a person (someone in need of help, thus they're getting a blessing), each place a hand on the person's head and the other on the priesthood holder next to hem (so they form a circle around the person being blessed). They then poor a small amount of oil on the person's head, then one of the priesthood holders gives them a blessing (the one giving the blessing actually has both hands on the one being blessed).
- Again, this one isn't too crazy, but some people find the oil a bit bizarre.

3- The idea of God appearing in modern times. While some Christian faiths do believe that God still grants appearances to people, many don't. Mormons believe that God DOES appear to people (not necessarily just the prophet). However, the church teaches that, to some degree, stuff like that should remain a personal experience. While you can share certain aspects, it's discouraged to inform people that God or someone appeared to you (as to not make others jealous... and as a way to show that you don't care what others feel about you, I guess).

Now, there are some ordinances (and this is really what turned ME off to the church) that even I didn't know about until I was 19 or 20... and I had grown up my entire life in the church. So when I came across some of these ordinances, I just felt like I had be deceived my whole life from knowing about them. Additionally, some other revelations around that time caused me to leave the church entirely... Here are some of those:

1- Various practices and ceremonies that happen inside parts of the temples that are only told to people that are there DOING the actual ceremony. While I see not wanting non-members to know about certain ordinances, the fact that I was 20 when I even knew ANYTHING about them made me just think of them as truly bizarre. One of which involves the Mime-Sacrifice (basically a leader mime-slits your throat when in a bath of some sort) of oneself. I believe this occurred when people were getting SEALED to each other (which is like marriage, but all family members get sealed so they remain together in the afterlife and beyond). However, I never did this because I was born into the church, which is like an automatic sealing to my parents. The slitting of the throat ceremony was recently revised, however, so there's no more mime-killing. But revisions, to me, are an issue... which brings up the next issue.

2- Constant, unexplained revisions. Okay, FIRSTLY, Joseph Smith's story of the vision of God and Jesus in the grass grove was NEVER RELEASED to the public until AFTER his DEATH. So, whoever wrote/edited and printed the first story wasn't even Joseph Smith. Secondly, that story has since been revised with new or changed facts 4 or 5 times now. Additionally, as I mentioned before, some ordinances and principles are revised or changed at times... and many times it's because of the politics of America changed.

- Some revisions are obviously not devine intervention, but rather the adhering to the laws of the land and the politics of the US. For example, Black people didn't have the right to hold the Priesthood until the 1970's when the US was heavily dealing with racism. Additionally, polygamy was abandoned only when the US started cracking down on it. Now, these are explained with the belief that Mormons are supposed to live "by the laws of the land" as well. Thus, as times change, they can change.


Well, that's about as far as I'll go for now (there's more), but even though I'm pointing out some of the bad things about it, there's a lot of good. As with other Christian religions, Mormons focus on bettering oneself and living with a tolerant heart. Of course, as with other Christian religions, many members don't understand tolerance, and still maintain their bigotry and horrible action... even going so far as to claim that's what they were taught to do. But really, there are always stupid people everywhere... so it's best not to judge Mormons, or any other religion, on the out-going, out-spoken PROUD members.

[remy_duvalle]

Oh... and for some other info:

www.exmormon.org is an alright sight to find insiders complain or tell the stories of why they left the church. Of course, some of these diatribes are completely wrong and ignorantly spout off untrue things about the church... But many are fairly interesting and truthfilled.

Also, there are many PRO-Mormon sites you should also check out, just so you're not just focusing on the bad stuff. Because Mormons DO do a bunch of good... They are very service-oriented. And they're very eager and willing to help others in desperate need (well, most of them are). Despite my non-acceptance of the church as a whole, it definitely instilled a sense of charity and love for my fellow man.

[RG57]

Modern Mormonism is just as any other denomination these days. I know that in general that the multiple wife thing is by and large gone. Whatever you discover keep an open mind, each has their right to believe as they wish.

[Jilvin]

I personally know and am friends with a devout Mormon who attends my school. Although I am an atheist, her and her family are more decent, ethical, and tolerant than almost anybody I have ever met. The members of her church were over at her house (I was over there because I am in an out of school activity that was hosted at her house) and they presented themselves very nicely, knew I was an atheist, and did not chastise me for being so even slightly. My experience with Mormons surprised me, to say the least.

In regards to the belief system, I have already viewed the Old Testament as violent and contradictory, the New Testament as contradictory, and the Book of Mormon I find completely absurd; the history of Joseph Smith according to the Mormons is extremely sketchy and is based off differing accounts of vague theophanies.

I do acknowledge that the Mormons used to be a more extremist church at its initial outset, but they have conformed remarkably to historical moral zeitgeist.

[hellsapoppin]

Read Professor Alice Tyler's Freedom's Ferment for details about the LDS origin and the bizarre nature of its founder.

[Hawg Horse]

Hitler was Catholic ... good to know. Was Jesus still a member of the Jewish faith (church) at the time of his death ... or, 3 days later, at the time of his resurrection?

[Hawg Horse]

Hitler was Catholic ... good to know. He probably never read the Book of Mormon. On a related question, was Jesus still a member of the Jewish faith (church) at the time of his death ... or, 3 days later, at the time of his resurrection?

[Varenne Rodin]

It's as bonkers as any other fetish/belief set.

[Hawg Horse]

I've been looking for someone who speaks for God. I hear you now, at last. Please, continue.

[Varenne Rodin]

"I'm so gay for Hawg Horse." - God

[cafolini]

Varenne always amuses me. I must say so every once in a while. But, of course, mormonism is such a boring religion.

[Varenne Rodin]

Thank you, Cafolini! :-D

[tailor STATELY]

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I've been interested with this thread.

In my news reading I found a Pew Research study... http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23431801&nid=1016 that might be relevant in a broader sense: "The survey was conducted in early December (2012) among 1,500 adults."

Hoping this will fuel a little more discussion.

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY

[Hawg Horse]

I submit my opinions respectfully in response to your posting. In my experience, the run-of-the-mill Mormon member is its saving grace. I like most Mormons I have personally met. Good-hearted, well-meaning people in greater numbers than in most competing organizations. Not known generally for critical thought (Glenn Beck comes to mind), there are certainly some notable exceptions in many fields of study, (Harvey Fletcher, father of stereophonic sound, his son James Fletcher, former head of NASA) and the list seems to be growing in distinction, as well as in notoriety (Steve Young, Stephnie Meyer, Marie Osmond) and in business acumen (Jon Huntsman, J.W. Marriott, Mitt Romney). All of these, in meaningful measure, are to the credit of the Mormon Faith. The conundrum for me is that all these talented members do not revolt, or at least openly speak out in protest, against seemingly immoral Church doctrines, such as women being excluded from the priesthood and same sex partners being denied equal church opportunities. For me, at least, the Church should also do more to own, and be more penitent for, its sins of the recent past, denial of priesthood to blacks and polygamy being the most egregious. The story of the angel appearing from Heaven and delivering ancient writings on golden plates to the founder, Joseph Smith, needs to be put in a better context to avoid the laughter of the next generation, as well as the doctrine that membership in the Mormon Church is a prerequisite for admission past the Pearly Gates.

[Whifflingpin]

The examples given of "seemingly immoral Church doctrines" seem simply to be "unfashionable" church doctrines.

There is no particular moral reason why women should be admitted to a priesthood (though there may be many social reasons.) Eligibility to a priesthood depends on what one considers the function and symbology of the priesthood to be.

A belief that same sex partnership is sinful may be unfashionable. As, however, same sex sex denies the major natural purpose of sex, the belief that it is against the natural order of things, and hence against God's will, is perfectly valid.

There is nothing inherently immoral in polygamy or polyandry, although, again, it is not fashionable to say so, and either or both may be illegal.

Changing practices (where the practices are not essential to doctrine) requires no kind of apology. Saint Paul commented that all things may be permitted, but not all things are expedient. So, for example, God may permit polygamy, but, unless She commands polygamy, there is no need to practice it if the result would be imprisonment.

[Hawg Horse]

It is immoral, I submit, for any church to deny equality of spiritual opportunities on the basis of gender or same sex orientation, as both are but a consequence of birth, and neither is harmful to others. Only a small percentage of sex acts have anything to do with procreation, and quoting God's unknowable will is nothing but an expression of pompous arrogance. I agree with you, there is nothing inherently immoral in polygamy or polyandry, but the way it was practiced by the Mormon Church, was immoral, as it denied members the right to choose their own spouse, and it invaded the sexual innocence of childhood. The latter, especially, deserves an apology, if nothing more than to acknowledge that the practice was eliminated from church doctrine by church leaders (known as prophets and apostles) on the basis of its recognized impropriety. Mormon leaders claim God commanded its practice and its discontinuation. Another sad example in my opinion of pompous self-serving arrogance.

[Whifflingpin]

All religions assume that God's will is at least partially knowable. Her will may be known, or indicated, through sacred texts or through inspired prophets or through what is perceived as the natural order of things or through an individual's conscience. Each religion or sect is a community of like-believers and, within the religion or sect, there is no need to consider the views of outsiders. The "pompous arrogance" (or worse) arises when people of one belief attempt to impose their belief over others.

As far as the Christian priesthood is concerned, I have no personal axe to grind. Those who believe that gender equality means that women must be allowed to be priests have a valid argument. However, the gospels show that Jesus was clearly not hidebound by any of the conventions of his day, and yet he chose to pass on the priestly functions (preaching, forgiving sins & celebrating the eucharist) only to men, as far as we can tell. This does not make Jesus immoral, or, if it does, then Christianity is essentially immoral from its foundation. Obviously, no-one of either gender who believed that would want to be a Christian priest.

Certainly, only a small percentage of human sex acts lead directly to procreation. (A great deal more leads to developing and maintaining the relationships between adults in a family that in turn helps to nurture the results of procreation.) It is hard, however, to deny that throughout the natural order procreation is the major purpose of sex. Anyone who believes that the natural order is ordained by God can also believe that the natural order is a means of understanding what God wants. Wilfully acting against the natural order of things may legitimately be seen as acting against the will of God. A religious community is quite within its rights not to promote or encourage within itself those who act against what the community believes to be the will of God.

As for apologising for people in the past, this is a pointless practice. It has to do with a sort of feel-good mushiness, but it is meaningless. More often than not, it is just a way of diverting attention away from one's own shortcomings. One can only apologise for and remedy his own actions and avoid benefiting from or repeating actions that he now believes to be immoral.

[Hawg Horse]

I doubt you and I could ever agree on the "natural order of things," and I am quite certain we will never agree on the importance of an apology for atrocities committed by an ongoing religious organization. For me, an acknowledgment and an estoppel, in the circumstances we have been discussing, is not a strong enough correction. I do, however, commend you for your thoughtful analysis. Impressive.

[sadparadise]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/features/2007/god_is_not_great/mormonism_a_racket_becomes.

Hitch slap!

[The Truth]

I read an interesting article in The New York Times, I believe it was, where I was impressed to find out that the Mormon religion is still sort of expanding, if you will, within the confines of the religion. Like they still have people who theorize about Joseph Smith's theories. I thought it was revolutionary that they still try to find out what their own religion doesn't explain, many others are paranoid to do that. Anyway, there was one guy who was coming up with a theory that God was actually a person and the role changes from year to year. I thought that was very interesting.