Sappho

[Dark Muse]

I love Sappho, the first time I read her, I fell in love. Her work is simplistic beuaty. So I thought I would start a thread in honor of her to share her works.

Without Warning

Without warning
as a whirlwind
swoops on an oak
Love shakes my heart

[ClaesGefvenberg]

I love Sappho, the first time I read her, I fill in love. Her work is simplistic beuaty. So I thought I would start a thread in honor of her to share her works. Sappho of Lesbos? Yes, I have a book about her somewhere. A very intesting person. :thumbs_up

/Claes

[Dark Muse]

Hehe yes, that would be the one. She is my muse.

[quasimodo1]

To Atthis

Though in Sardis now,
she thinks of us constantly

and of the life we shared.
She saw you as a goddess
and above all your dancing gave her deep joy.

Now she shines among Lydian women like
the rose-fingered moon
rising after sundown, erasing all

stars around her, and pouring light equally
across the salt sea
and over densely flowered fields

lucent under dew. Her light spreads
on roses and tender thyme
and the blooming honey-lotus.

Often while she wanders she remem-
bers you, gentle Atthis,
and desire eats away at her heart

for us to come.

--Translated by Willis Barnstone

[Dark Muse]

I have not read that one before. Though I have a book of her work, I haven't read the whole thing yet. That is beautiful.

[JBI]

Translation is important when reading Sappho, as her works were highly closed form (she invented the Sapphic Ode, of course) and highly lyrical, though fragmentary. She really only has 100 works surviving, most fragments of 1 or two lines, and like 1 or two full poems. Still, a very great, and influential poet, whose work seems to be echoed by poets like the American Imagist H.D.

[stlukesguild]

She... and a few other Greek poets are also the closest thing to the poetry one finds in Japan... until the Imagists and later. Her fragmentary works also remind me of the fragments of Holderlin and Mallarme's Tomb for Anatole... his book of poetic fragments responding to the death of his young son... not to forget the later poems of Paul Celan. It is intriguing to notice that what was a tragic loss... the fragmentation of her poems... would later become appreciated in an era that finds almost more meaning in the fragment than in the whole. Surely this is not unlike our appreciation of fragmentary sculpture that would have been seen as an anathema to the original Greek artists.

[stlukesguild]

]
] you will remember
] for we in our youth
did these things

yes many and beautiful things
]
]

]

tr. Anne Carson

[stlukesguild]

]frequently
]for those
I treat well are the ones who most of all
]harm me

]crazy
]
]
]
]you, I want
]to suffer
]in myself I am
aware of this
]
]
]

tr. Anne Carson

[Dark Muse]

Hmm I do not know if it just these particuarly poems, or the translator, but this one just did not seem to have the same flow as the ones I have read in my own book. I like the translations I have better.

[Dark Muse]

All the Sappho poems I have are translated by Mary Barnard

Tell everyone

Now, today I shall
sing beautifully for
my friends' pleasure

[stlukesguild]

I have Barnard's translation as well... which I very much enjoyed. Hers are written in clear, unornamented English... but include a good deal of reconstruction in some cases... providing what is missing from the actual fragmentary texts. Anne Carson... poet and classical scholar... is far more Post-Modern. Her translations revel a great deal in the fragments... and these fragments can often seem quite suggestive. Of course the reality is that while Carson does not include what is not there in Sappho's texts, the resulting fragments put her words into a context that may be just as invented as Barnard's attempts at completion.

[Dark Muse]

That makes sense, I had thought I dected a Post-Modern feeling in the poem you just posted which does not generally please me. Barnard to me just captures the essence and beauty more.

[Dark Muse]

We shall enjoy it

As for him who finds
fault, may silliness
and sorrow take him!

[Dark Muse]

And I said

I shall burn
the fat thigh-bones of
a white she-goat
at her altar

[Dark Muse]

I confess

I love that
which caresses
me. I believe

Love has his
share in the
Sun's brilliance
and virtue

[bluevictim]

It's too bad that so little of Sappho's work has survived.

Here's another one I like (often cataloged as fragment 16):


Some folks say a squadron of horsemen -- others,
Th'infantry -- still others, a fleet of warships --
Is the greatest beauty in all the Earth; I
say, it's your true love.

Altogether easy it is to make this
Clear to all, for she who in beauty others
Far surpassed -- of Helen I speak -- her husband,
perfectly noble,

Left behind and went under sail to Troy, and
Neither gave her child nor her own dear parents
Any thought at all; but away she led her
...

...
...
... reminds me now of Anactoria,
she who is absent.

I would rather look on her ravishing stride
And the shining radiance of her face than
Chariots of Lydian make and marching
foot soldiers full-armed.





Translation is important when reading Sappho, as her works were highly closed form (she invented the Sapphic Ode, of course) and highly lyrical, though fragmentary. I do have a nit to pick with JBI's claim that Sappho invented the Sapphic Ode -- it's unlikely that Sappho herself actually invented the form, though she often used it.

[Dark Muse]

At noontime

When the earth is
bright with flamming
heat falling straight down

the cricket sets
up a high-pitched
sniging in his wings

[JBI]

I do have a nit to pick with JBI's claim that Sappho invented the Sapphic Ode -- it's unlikely that Sappho herself actually invented the form, though she often used it. yes perhaps you are right, though as far as history is concerned, she might as well have, as Nothing beside remains, as they say. Well, perhaps Alcaeus, but yes, true point, a mistake on my part.

[Dark Muse]

I took my lyre and said:

Come now, my heavenly
tortoise shell: become
a speaking instrument

[bluevictim]

I love Sappho, the first time I read her, I fell in love. Her work is simplistic beuaty. So I thought I would start a thread in honor of her to share her works.By the way, I forgot to thank you for starting this thread!

I was wondering, though, what it is about Sappho's poems that people here find appealing? I find it interesting that most of the poems posted in this thread have been the shortest, most incomplete fragments, and I'm curious why these clumps of words were chosen over the more substantial fragments?

[Dark Muse]

For me, the poems I am posting are really just in order of how they appear within my book of her works. But there is something beautiful in some of the simplicity of these short works I think. For me, there is something very spiritual in her works that speaks to me on a deep level, in these fragements I think she does paint wonderful little pictures, and creates strong emotions.

[Dark Muse]

Although they are

Only breath, words
which I command
are immortal

[Dark Muse]

That afternoon

Girls ripe to marry
wover the flower-
heads into necklaces

[Dark Muse]

We heard them chanting:

First voice:

Young Adonis is
dyng! O Cytherea
What shall we do now?

Second Voice

Batter your breasts
with your fists, girls--
tatter your dresses!

[Dark Muse]

Its no use

Mother dear, I
can't finnish my
weaving
You may
blame Aphrodite

soft as she is

she has almost
killed me with
love for that boy

[Dark Muse]

People do gossip

And they say about
Leda, that she

once found an egg
hidden under

wild hyacinths

[bluevictim]

Here is another one of Sappho's major poems (usually cataloged as fragment 1):

Aphrodite, richly enthroned immortal
Child of Zeus and weaver of wiles, I beg you --
Overwhelm me not in my heart with grief and
trouble, my mistress;

Rather come to me, if there ever was a
Time when, having heard from afar my cries, you
Heeded them, and leaving your father's golden
chambers you came here,

Having yoked your chariot; beautiful swift
Sparrows led you over the lower black Earth
Flapping close-packed wings through the middle ether
down out of heaven

And arrived with speed. And then you, o goddess,
With a smile to grace your immortal visage
Asked me what this time have I suffered, why this
time do I summon,

What do I most madly desire to happen
In my heart -- "Whom this time should I persuade to
Bring you back again into friendship? Who's mis-
treating you, Sappho?

Ev'n if now she flees, she will soon pursue you;
If she now spurns gifts, she will later give them;
If she now loves not, she will love you soon, un-
willing if need be."

Please come even now, and release me from my
Difficult cares; all I desire accomplished
In my heart accomplish, and be yourself my
ally in battle.



Unfortunately, it looks like there's not too much interest in Sappho here at LitNet.

One theme that often appears in Sappho's poems is that of longing. It occurs in all of the longer poems posted so far in this thread -- fragment 96 (the poem that quasimodo1 posted), fragment 16 (the poem I posted earlier), and fragment 1 (above). In each of these poems, Sappho uses a different context to build up this theme. In fragment 96, she uses a locus amoenus, in fragment 16, she uses traditional martial sentiments, and in fragment 1 she uses a hymn. I think in all three of these poems Sappho's treatment of yearning is very effective. Anyways, just a few thoughts to see if any interest can be stirred up here for Sappho. :)


For me, the poems I am posting are really just in order of how they appear within my book of her works. But there is something beautiful in some of the simplicity of these short works I think. For me, there is something very spiritual in her works that speaks to me on a deep level, in these fragements I think she does paint wonderful little pictures, and creates strong emotions.I agree that the fragments and snippets are sometimes very evocative. It really is too bad that so much has been lost.

[Dark Muse]

Yes I agree the idea of longing does appear quite often within her work. One of the other things which I do find very interesting about her work, and which I enjoy, is the way she so often evokes the gods, she seems to have a close personal relationship to them, and some of her poems are like little conversations to them.

[bluevictim]

One of the other things which I do find very interesting about her work, and which I enjoy, is the way she so often evokes the gods, she seems to have a close personal relationship to them, and some of her poems are like little conversations to them.Yes, especially Aphrodite, and fragment 1 is a great example.

[Dark Muse]

Peace reigned in heaven

Ambrosia stood
already mixed
in the wine bowl

It was Hermes
who took up the
wine jug and poured
wine for the gods

[Dark Muse]

When I saw Eros

On his way down
from heaven, he

wore a soldier's
cloak dyed purple

[Dark Muse]

You are the herdsman of evening

Hesperus, you herd
homeward whatever
Dawn's light dispersed

You heard sheep--herd
goats--herd children
home to thier mothers

[Dark Muse]

Sleep, darling

I have a small
daughter called
Cleis, who is

like a golden
flower
I wouldn't
take all Croesus'
kingdom with love
thrown in, for her.

[Dark Muse]

Althought clumsy

Mnasidicia has a more
shapely figure than
our gentle Gyrino

[Dark Muse]

Tomorrow you had better

Use your soft hands,
Dica, to tear off
dill shoots, to cap
you lovely curls

She who wears flowers
attracts happy
Graces: they turn
back from bare head

[Dark Muse]

We put the urn aboard ship
with this inscription

This is the dust of little
Timas who unmarried
led
into Persephone's dark
bedroom

And she being far from
home, girls
her age took new-edged
blades

to cut, in mourning for her,
these curls of thier soft hair

[Dark Muse]

Cyprian, in my dream

The folds of a purple
kercheif shadowed
your cheeks--the one

Timas one time sent,
a timid gift, all
the way from Phocaea

[Dark Muse]

In the spring twilight

The full moon shining:
Girls take thier places
as through around an altar

[Dark Muse]

And their feet move

Rhythmically, as tender
feet of Creten girls
danced once around an

altar of love, crushing
a circle of soft
smooth flowering grass

[Dark Muse]

Awed by her splendor

Stars near lovely
moon cover thier own
bright faces
when she
is roundest and lights
earth with her silver

[Dark Muse]

Now, while we dance

Come here to us
gentle Gaiety,
Revelry, Radiance

and you Muses
with lovely hair

[Dark Muse]

The evening star

Is the most
beautiful
of all stars

[Dark Muse]

It is time now

First voice:...................For you who are so
..................................pretty and charming

..................................to shae in games
..................................that the pink-ankled
..................................Graces play, and

..................................gold Aphrodite

..................................O never!

Second voice: ...............I shall be
..................................a virgin always

[Dark Muse]

For her sake

We ask you
to come now

O Graces O
rosy-armed
perfection:

God's daughters

[Dark Muse]

Hymen Hymenaon

First voice........Raise the rafter! Hoist
......................them higher! Here comes
......................a bridegromm taller
......................than Ares!

Second Voice....Hymen Hymenaon


First Voice...... He towers
.....................above tall men as
.....................poets of Lebos
.....................over all others

Second Voice...Sing Hymen
....................O Hymenaon

[Redzeppelin]

Two of my favorites by "The Tenth Muse"

#46
Thank you, my dear

You came, and you did
well to come: I needed
you. You have made

love blaze up in
my breast - bless you!
Bless you as often

as the hours have
been endless to me
while you were gone



#53
With this venom

Irresistable
and bittersweet

that loosener
of limbs, Love

reptile-like
strikes me down



Sappho's longing, her desire, her frankness are astounding to read. It's a shame we have so few fragments of her often startling verse.

[Dark Muse]

Thank you for sharing those, they are both very lovely

We drink to your health

Lucky Bridegroom!
Now the wedding you
asked for is over

and your wife is the
girl you asked for;
she's a bride who is

charming to look at,
with eyes as soft as
honey and a face

that Love has lighted
with his own beauty.
Aprhodite has surely

outdone herself in
doing honor to you!

[Dark Muse]

Bridesmaids' Carol I

O Bride brimful of
rosy little loves!

O brightest jewel of
the Queen of Paphos!

Come now
to your
bedroom to your
bed
and play there
sweetly gently
with your bridegroom

And may Hesperus
lead you not all
unwilling
until
you stand wondering
before the silver

Thron of Hera
Queen of Marriage

[FalseReality]

We know this much

Death is an evil;
we have the gods'
word for it; they too
would die if death
were a good thing


Rich as you are
Death will finish
you: afterwards no
one will remember

or want you: you
had no share in
the Pierian roses

You will flitter
invisible among
the indistinct dead
in Hell's palace
darting fitfully


The nightingale's

the soft spoken
announcer of
Spring's presence

And last


You may forget but

Let me tell you
this: someone in
some future time
will think of us

[shortstoryfan]

You know, I saw this thread and it just reminded me of something (kind of unrelated) that may interest some. I heard last year an aria from an opera based on the life of Sappho. I can't remember who wrote it, but it was pretty intense. Just thought I would share something I know a little bit about...music.

[Dark Muse]

ooh an Opera about Sappho sounds interesting

[Dark Muse]

Bridemaids' Carol II

First voice......Virginity O
....................my virginity!

....................Where will you
....................go when I loose
....................you?

Second Voice.... I am off
................... a place I shall never
....................never come back
....................from

.........................Dear Bride!
....................I shall never
....................come back to you

.........................Never!

[Dark Muse]

They're locked in, oh!

The doorkeeper's
feet are twelve
yards long! ten shoe-

makers used five
oxhides to cobble
sandals for them!

[Dark Muse]

Lament for a Maidenhead

first voice........Like a quince-apple
.....................ripening on a top
.....................branch in a tree top

.....................not once noticed by
.....................harvesters of if
.....................not unoticed, not reached

second voice....Like a hyacinth in
.....................the mountains trampled
.....................by shepherds until
.....................only a purple stain
.....................remains on the ground

[Taliesin]

Ooooo..me likey....

By the way, Charles Gounod has an opera about Sappho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapho_(Gounod)) - perhaps that was what shortstoryfan meant?

[Dark Muse]

I found these Pre-Rapahelite paintings of Sappho

http://www.artmagick.com/images/content/tadema/med/tadema11.jpg
Sappho and Alcaeus ~ Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema

http://www.artmagick.com/images/content/solomon/med/solomon2.jpg
Sappho and Erinna at Mytelene ~ Simeon Solomon

http://www.artmagick.com/images/content/mengin/med/mengin1.jpg
Sappho ~ Charles August Mengin

http://www.artmagick.com/images/content/godward/med/godward65.jpg
In the Days of Sappho ~ John William Godward

[Dark Muse]

You wear her livery

Shining with gold,
you, too, Hecate,
Queen of the Night, hand-
maid to Aphrodite

[Dark Muse]

Why am I crying?

Am I still sad
becasue of my
lost maidenhead?

[Dark Muse]

You know the place: then

Leave Crete and come to us
waiting where the grove is
pleasantest, by precincts

sacred to you; incense
smokes on the altar, cold
streams murmur through
the

apple branches, a young
rose thicket shades the
ground
and quivering leaves pour

down deep sleep; in meadows
where horses have grown sleek
among spring flowers, dill

scents the air. Queen! Cyprian!
Fill our gold cups with love
stirred into clear nectar

[Dark Muse]

Prayer to my lady of Paphos

Dapple-throned Aphrodite,
eternal daughter of God,
snare-knitter! Don't, I beg
you,

cow my heart with grief!
Come,
as once when you heard my
far-
off cry and, listening,
stepped

from your father's house to your
gold car, to yoke the pair whose
beautiful thick-feathered wings

oaring down mid-air from heaven
carried you to light swiftly
on dark earth; than, blissful one,

smiling your immortal smile
you asked, What ailed me now that
made me call you again? What

was is that my distracted
heart most wanted? "Whom has
Persuasion to bring round now

"to your love? Who, Sappho, is
unfair to you? For, let her
run, she will soon run after;

"if she won't accept gifts, she
will one day give them; and if
she won't love you- she soon will

"love although unwillingly...."
If ever-come now! Relieve
this intolerable pain!

What my heart most hopes will
happen, make happen; you your-
self join forces my side!

[crystalmoonshin]

In the spring twilight

The full moon shining:
Girls take thier places
as through around an altar

Wow, this is nice. If we rearrange it into this:

The full moon shining:
As through around an altar
Girls take their places

it becomes a haiku!!!

[alakungfu]

I would consider this a very lovely poem:



Please


Come back to me, Gongyla, here tonight,
You, my rose, with your Lydian lyre.
There hovers forever around you delight:
A beauty desired.

Even your garment plunders my eyes.
I am enchanted: I who once
Complained to the Cyprus-born goddess,
Whom I now beseech

Never to let this lose me grace
But rather bring you back to me:
Amongst all mortal women the one
I most wish to see.


--Translated by Paul Roche

[alakungfu]

And this poem is very effective for all its brevity;



To Andromeda


That country girl has witched your wishes,
all dressed up in her country clothes
and she hasn't got the sense
to hitch her rags above her ankles.


--Translated by Jim Powell

[alakungfu]

And what subject is harder to broach in poietry than mixed feelings?



"On the throne of many hues, Immortal Aphrodite"


On the throne of many hues, Immortal Aphrodite,
child of Zeus, weaving wiles--I beg you
not to subdue my spirit, Queen,
with pain or sorrow

but come--if ever before
having heard my voice from far away
you listened, and leaving your father's
golden home you came

in your chariot yoked with swift, lovely
sparrows bringing you over the dark earth
thick-feathered wings swirling down
from the sky through mid-air

arriving quickly--you, Blessed One,
with a smile on your unaging face
asking again what have I suffered
and why am I calling again

and in my wild heart what did I most wish
to happen to me: "Again whom must I persuade
back into the harness of your love?
Sappho, who wrongs you?

For if she flees, soon she'll pursue,
she doesn't accept gifts, but she'll give,
if not now loving, soon she'll love
even against her will."

Come to me now again, release me from
this pain, everything my spirit longs
to have fulfilled, fulfill, and you
be my ally


--Translated by Diane Rayor

[Dark Muse]

Ok this one is my all time favorite of hers. I just LOVE this one.

He is more than a hero

He is a god in my eyes-
the man who is allowed
to sit beside you-he

who listens intimately
to the sweet murmur of
your voice, the enticing

laughter that makes my own
heart beat fast. If I meet
you suddenly, I can't

speak-my tongue is broken;
a thin flame runs under
my skin; seeing nothing,

hearing only my own ears
drumming, I drip with sweat;
trembling shakes my body

and I turn paler than
dry grass. At such times
death isn't far from me.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, Atthis, you may be sure

Even in Sardis
Anactoria will think often
of us

of the life we shared here,
when you seemed
the Goddess incarnate
to her and your singing
pleased her best

Now among Lydian women she in her
turn stands first as the red-
fingered moon rising at sunset takes

precedence over stars around her;
her light spreads equally
on the salt sea and fields thick with
bloom

Delicious dew pours down to freshen
roses, delicate thyme
and blossoming sweet clover; she
wanders

aimlessly, thinking of gentle
Atthis, her heart hanging
heavy with longing in her little breast

She shouts aloud, Come! we know it;
thousand eared-night repeats that cry
across the sea shinning between us

[Dark Muse]

To an army wife, in Sardis:

Some say cavalry corps,
some infantry, some, again,
will maintain that the swift
oars

of our fleet are the finest
sight on dark earth; but I say
that whatever one loves, is.

This is easily proved: did
not Helen-she who had
scanned
the flower of world's
manhood-

choose as first among men one
who laid Tory's honor ruin?
warped to his will, forgetting

love due her own blood, her own
child, she wandered far with him.
So Anactoria, although you

being far away forget us,
the dear sound of your footstep
and light glancing in your eyes

would move me more than glitter
Lydian horse or armored
tread of mainland infantry

[ShoutGrace]

Ok this one is my all time favorite of hers. I just LOVE this one.

He is more than a hero

He is a god in my eyes-
the man who is allowed
to sit beside you-he

who listens intimately
to the sweet murmur of
your voice, the enticing

laughter that makes my own
heart beat fast. If I meet
you suddenly, I can't

speak-my tongue is broken;
a thin flame runs under
my skin; seeing nothing,

hearing only my own ears
drumming, I drip with sweat;
trembling shakes my body

and I turn paler than
dry grass. At such times
death isn't far from me.


This can provide a constructive example of how varied translations can be. I also admire this poem, but I discovered it in this form:



“There's a man I really believe’s in heaven,
-over there, that man. To be sitting near you,
knee to knee so close to you, hear your voice, your
cozy low laughter,
close to you - enough in the very thought to
put my heart at once to palpitation.
I, come face to face with you on a sudden,
stand in a stupor:
tongue a lump, unable to lift; elusive
little flames play over the skin and smoulder
under. Eyes go blind in a flash; and ears hear
only their own din.
Head to toe I'm cold with a sudden moisture;
Knees are faint; my cheeks, in an instant, drain to
pale as grass. I think to myself, the end? I'm
really going under?

Well, endure is all I can do . . .”

[Dark Muse]

Wow that is quite different, though I have to admit to prefering my translation over that one. But it reads almost like a different poem even though shares roughly the same sentiment.

[ShoutGrace]

It took me a moment to realize that it was the same poem. I agree that with respect to their mechanics, the poems differ greatly . . . but I think the “sentiment” of each translation is equivalent. Were it not, one or both of the translators would have failed badly in their endeavors ;).

[stlukesguild]

I just purchased a third translation of Sapho's poetry... somewhat phenomenal considering the fragmentary state of her work. I've owned the Mary Barnard translation for years. A couple years ago I purchased the Anne Carson translation which lends a rather post-modern voice to the poet Sappho as she insists on retaining the fragmentary state of the works and adding nothing... surmising nothing... that was not there. Today I picked up a newer translation (2006) by Willis Barnstone. I'll try to post a few examples over the nest few days or so.

[Dark Muse]

I have to say I love Mary Barnard's interpritation of the work.

While it is an interesting concept of keeping the work in its fragmeneted state and preusuming nothing, I do not like that Post-modern feel it has when you read it. It just does not feel as fluid or passionate.

[JBI]

Wow, this is nice. If we rearrange it into this:

The full moon shining:
As through around an altar
Girls take their places

it becomes a haiku!!!

Full
Moon
Shining
Alter
Girls
Take
Places
Around

Now it's a mock 8 character poem.

Just shows you how you can reduce language yet still retain the comprehension. I think the poem is still readable, but you could play with it further:

Around Alter Girls Take their Places;
The full moon

or perhaps if I was creative, and not limited to the format on the forum (it is almost impossible to get indents in) I could have broken girls up into letters, and quite literally around the alter. I'll try anyway, just

Shining...Full...Moon
...............g
....i......Alter........s
..........r.......l


Or something like that. And now I know I have been reading too much.

[Dark Muse]

I have not one word
from her

Frankly I wish I were dead.
When she left, she wept

a great deal; she said to
me, "This parting must be
endured, Sappho. I go
unwillingly."

I said, "Go, and be happy
but remember (you know
well) whom you leave
shackled by love

"If you forget me, think
of our gifts to Aphrodite
and all the loveliness that we shared

"all the violet tiaras,
braided rosebuds, dill and
crocus twined around your young neck

"myrrh poured on your head
and on soft mat girls with
all they most wished for beside
them

"while no voices chanted
choruses without ours,
no woodlot bloomed in spring
without song..."

[stlukesguild]

I might note that even when posting an excerpt of a poem by Sappho (or anyone else) in translation one should give credit to the translator through a proper citation. I don't state this merely to be picky... but I would certainly like to know who the translator is in such an instance.

[Dark Muse]

Sorry, I had mentioned this sometime earlier, but that was a few pages ago.

All my translations are Mary Barnard

[stlukesguild]

Originally Posted by Dark Muse:

In the spring twilight

The full moon shining:
Girls take thier places
as through around an altar

Wow, this is nice. If we rearrange it into this:

The full moon shining:
As through around an altar
Girls take their places

it becomes a haiku!!!

Originally Posted by JBI:

Full
Moon
Shining
Alter
Girls
Take
Places
Around

Now it's a mock 8 character poem.

Just shows you how you can reduce language yet still retain the comprehension. I think the poem is still readable, but you could play with it further:

Around Alter Girls Take their Places;
The full moon

or perhaps if I was creative, and not limited to the format on the forum (it is almost impossible to get indents in) I could have broken girls up into letters, and quite literally around the alter. I'll try anyway, just

Shining...Full...Moon
...............g
....i......Alter........s
..........r.......l


Or something like that. And now I know I have been reading too much.

Barnstone translates this as:

The moon appeared in her fullness
when women took their place around the altar

tr. Willis Barstone: Sweetbitter Love: Poems of Sappho

Anne Carson has it:

full appeared the moon
and when they around the altar took their places

tr. Anne Carson, If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho

[stlukesguild]

not one girl, I think
........who looks on the light of the sun
..............will ever
..............have wisdom
..............like this

tr. Anne Carson: If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho

I actually quite like this version by Anne Carson. Her translations are less within the Western Romantic poetic tradition and come closer to capturing that something of a compression in Sappho that comes close to certain Chinese and Japanese lyric poems

[Dark Muse]

It was you Atthis, who said

"Sappho, if you will not get
up and let us look at you
I shall never love you again!

"Get up, unleash your
suppleness,
lift off your Chian
nightdress
and, like lilly leaning into

"a spring, bathe in the
water
Cleis is brigning your best
purple frock and the yellow

"tunic down from the clothes chest;
you will have a cloak thrown over
you and flowers crowning your
hair........

"Praxinoa, my child, will you please
roast nuts for our breakfast? One
of the gods is being good to us:

"today we are going at last
into Mitylene, our favorite
city, with Sappho the lovliest

"of its women; she will walk
among us like a mother with
all her daughters around her

"when she comes home from
exile......."

But you forget everything

[trueromantic]

Which translation are these beautiful exstracts from please?

[Dark Muse]

The ones that I post are from Mary Barnard

[Dark Muse]

Without warning

As a whirlwind
swoops on an oak
Love shakes my heart

[medusa_woman]

I love Sappho! I could cry when I think of her lost work. I read that sometime in the late 1800's a series of excavations took place somewhere in Egypt and that they found a great deal of her work, in strips and pieces lining coffins and in carcasses of stuffed sacred animals. But I believe that even that was second-hand. No doubt the Christian religious zealots had a hand in eliminating her work. Wasn't a great deal of Botticelli's work also burned in some anti-pagan hysteria? Anyway, I love this poem about growing old -- translated by Paul Roche. Mostly though, I love the images her words conjure up in my mind. They are timeless and haunting.

No, children, do not delude me.
You mock the good gifts of the Muses
When you say: “Dear Sappho we’ll crown you,
Resonant player,
First on the clear sweet lyre . . . “
Do you not see how I alter:
My skin with it’s aging,
My black hair gone white,
My legs scarcely carrying
Me, who went dancing
More neatly than fawns once
(Neatest of creatures)?
No, no one can cure it; keep beauty from going,
And I cannot help it.
God himself cannot do what cannot be done.
So age follows after and catches
Everything living
Even rosy-armed Eos, the Dawn,
Who ushers in morning to the ends of the earth,
Could not save from the grasp of old age
Her lover immortal Tithonus.
And I too I know, must waste away.
Yet for me—listen well—
My delight is the exquisite.
Yes, for me,
Glitter and sunlight and love
Are one society.
So I shall not go creeping away
To die in the dark:
I shall go on living with you,
Love and loved.

[Dark Muse]

I think I may have that one in my book, it looks familair, but I really enjoyed that translation of it. It is a lovely poem.

By the way really like your user name

[medusa_woman]

Thank you! I like your name as well! A couple of summers ago I sat around the pool reading Sappho -- I wanted to read it in her environment -- hot and close to the water. I had to settle for my pool, since a Greek island was not an option! Anyway, I still have this link to a great deal of Sappho sites. There's information and even some readings. Some good, some terrible. Hopefully you'll find something of interest.
http://www.classicpersuasion.org/pw/sappho/index.htm#gade

[Dark Muse]

I am not sure where, but somewhere I just happend to see a little pocket sized book of a collection of her works, at first I had not really heard of it, but I have a general interest in poetry so I picked it up, and I just fell in love with her work. I will have to check out that link.

[Dark Muse]

If you will come

I shall put out
new pillows for
you to rest on

[Dark Muse]

Thank you, my dear

You came, and you did
well to come: I needed
you. You have made

love blave up in
my breast--bless you!
Bless you as often

as the hours have
been endless to me
while you were gone.

[Dark Muse]

I was so happy

Believe me, I
prayed that that
night might be
doubled for us.

[Dark Muse]

Now I know why Eros,

Of all the progeny of
Earth and Heaven, has
been most dearly loved

[Dark Muse]

She was dressed well:

Her feet were hidden
under embroidered
sandal straps--fine
handwork from Asia

[duckyboy1975]

If you will come

I shall put out
new pillows for
you to rest on

I think I'm going to steal these for some song lyrics. :)
____________
Maybe all one can do is hope to end up with the right regrets. - Arthur Miller
rc car parts (http://www.rccarswarehouse.com/) small dog beds (http://www.dogbedswarehouse.com/) patio table sets (http://www.patioset.com/Patio_Tables/)

[David R]

Dead shalt thou lie; and nought
Be told of thee or thought,
For thou hast plucked not of the muses' tree:
And even in Hades' halls
Amidst thy fellow-thralls
No friendly shade thy shade shall company!

Translated by Thomas Hardy.

[Dark Muse]

But you, monkey face

Atthis, I loved you
long ago while you
still seemed to me a
small ungracious child

[Dark Muse]

I was proud of you, too

In skill I think
you need never
bow to any girl

not one who may
see the sunlight
in time to come

[Dark Muse]

After all this

Atthis, you hate
even the thought

of me. You dart
off to Andromeda

[Dark Muse]

I just love this one!

With his venom

Irresistible
and bittersweet

that loosner
of limbs, Love

reptile-like
srikes me down.

[Dark Muse]

Afraid of losing you

I ran fluttering
like a little girl
after her mother

[Dark Muse]

On what is best

Some celebrate the beauty
of knights, or infantry,
or billowing flotillas
at battle on the sea.
Warfare has its glory,
but I place far above
these military splendors
the one thing that you love.

For proof of this contention
examine history:
we all remember Helen,
who left her family,
her child, and royal husband,
to take a stranger's hand:
her beauty had no equal,
but bowed to love's command.

As love then is the power
that none can disobey,
so too my thoughts must follow
my darling far away:
the sparkle of her laughter
would give me greater joy
than all the bronze-clad heroes

- translated by Jon Corelis

[Dinkleberry2010]

Is ON WHAT IS BEST supposed to be a poem of Sappho's?
I question that it is because of certain words used in the poem. For example the word knights. Sappho lived circa 620 b.c. to 565 b.c. Knights did not exist in Sappho's time, either literally or physically. There was no conception of knights in her time. Knights is a medieval term. Another word that is used in the poem is the word history. There was no conception of history per se in Sappho's time, much less the use of the word. Herodotus who lived circa 484 b.c. to 425 b.c. and who wrote The Histories is credited with not only creating the first historical work but with conceiving the idea of history.

Perhaps it's the fault of the translator--John Corelis; maybe he translated certain terms or words Sappho used into more modern terms. Anyway, the poem On What Is Best both appears and sounds to me too modern to have been composed by Sappho.

[Dark Muse]

Perhaps it was an interpretation of the translator or a mistake by him, or the poem was wrongly attributed to Sappho, I will do further research into it.

[Dark Muse]

Here is another translation of the poem that I was able to find:

Some an army of horsemen, some an army on foot
and some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest sight
on this dark earth; but I say it is what-
ever you desire:

and it is possible to make this perfectly clear
to all; for the woman who far surpassed all others
in her beauty, Helen, left her husband-
the best of all men -

behind and sailed far away to Troy; she did not spare
a single thought for her child nor for her dear parents
but the goddess of love led her astray

which
reminds me now of Anactoria
although far away.

translation by Josephine Balmer

[bluevictim]

Is ON WHAT IS BEST supposed to be a poem of Sappho's?
I question that it is because of certain words used in the poem. For example the word knights. Sappho lived circa 620 b.c. to 565 b.c. Knights did not exist in Sappho's time, either literally or physically. There was no conception of knights in her time. Knights is a medieval term. Another word that is used in the poem is the word history. There was no conception of history per se in Sappho's time, much less the use of the word. Herodotus who lived circa 484 b.c. to 425 b.c. and who wrote The Histories is credited with not only creating the first historical work but with conceiving the idea of history.

Perhaps it's the fault of the translator--John Corelis; maybe he translated certain terms or words Sappho used into more modern terms. Anyway, the poem On What Is Best both appears and sounds to me too modern to have been composed by Sappho.Interesting observations. I think it is clear that the translator was not using the words 'knights' and 'history' in a rigorously technical way.

While they (probably) did not belong to orders or subscribe to the code of chivalry, there were cavalrymen in Sappho's time. Ancient Greek cavalrymen were similar in some respects to medieval knights (for example, they were wealthy aristocrats), and it is not uncommon to translate the Greek word for horseman as 'knight' (one of Aristophanes' plays, for example, is often referred to as Knights). The translator in this case probably consciously chose to use the word 'knights' to evoke the romance surrounding medieval knights to reinforce the feeling of those who would say that cavalry is the most beautiful thing in the world.

As for the word 'history', it's pretty common to use it to simply refer to events that took place in the past, without thought of the scholarly value of the sources. Actually, the translator inserted the word into the poem; there is no word in the poem that the translator is trying to render with the word 'history'. I agree that it draws undue attention to the problem of the nature of myths like the story of Helen.

For those who are curious, here are some more translations of the same poem: there are four different translations of this poem here and this translation was posted earlier in this thread.

[Dark Muse]

It is clear now:

Neither honey nor
the honey bee is
to be mind again.

[Dark Muse]

Day in, day out

I hunger and
I struggle

[Dark Muse]

You will say

See, I have come
back to the soft
arms I turned from
in the old days.

[Dark Muse]

Tell me

Out of all
mankind, whom
do you love

Better than
you love me?

[Seasider]

About 3 years ago I read a fragment which was described as a newly discovered fragment of a poem by Sappho. I was very moved by it and tried to do a rendering myself. I think it is the same fragment that Medusa_Woman quoted. But hers seems longer. For what it's worth here's my poor effort.

Dear girls, you are young,
Take all the gifts the fragrant Muses bring you.
Pluck the clear melodious lyre with zeal, and dance with joy.

Old age has seized my once tender body
My hair’s turned white instead of dark
My heart’s grown heavy; my knees will not support me now,
Which once on a time were as fleet for the dance,
As young fawns are for the chase.
This state I oft bemoan but what’s to do?
Not to grow old? I’m mortal. It must be.

Remember the old story of Dawn, the rose- armed Goddess,
Smitten by love for Tithonus?
She carried him off to the world’s end.
He was handsome and young then.
Yet in time, grey age o’ertook him.
Sad mortal husband of immortal wife.

[libernaut]

Sappho is a gentle lover. She's great. I don't know where my mom found it at some garage sale for like 50 cents and gave it to me. one of my favorites. Such fragmented beauty.

[Dark Muse]

Without warning
as a whirlwind
swoops on an oak
Love shakes my heart

[Austin Butler]

For those interested in learning more about Sappho's poetry I recommend Anne Carson's Eros the Bittersweet. A beautiful and painful little book.

[Dark Muse]

I said, Sappho

Enough! Why
try to move
a hard heart?

[Pierre Menard]

What translation are you using Dark Muse?

[Dark Muse]

Mary Barnard