What Do You Think of the LHC?

[qspeechc]

So we've all heard of the LHC- the most news coverage physics has ever recieved in its history. So what do you think of it? Fantastic that we're asking the big questions, or a complete waste of money? We haven't all disappeared into a black hole yet, so that's a good point.

I am of the opinion that it is a waste of money, but so then are very many other things. At least this tells us something interesting. It's about time some money was put into physics. Just think how much money is put into sports: stadia, events, watering the grass for golf etc.

I won't post links, because you can google it yourself, except this one, because it links other pages:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7604293.stm

[Virgil]

It may very well be a waste of money. I believe in scientific research, but 5B billion pounds (what's that about $7.5B) seems like an extraordinary price to pay for one experiment. And what assurance does one have that smashing two protons together replicates the big bang? I'm not sure I make the correlation.

On another subject, you say that sports are a waste of money. People pay freely out of their own pocket to support sports. It may be a waste to you but it doesn't seem to be a waste to other people.

[qspeechc]

It isn't one experiment, they hope to answer several questions with the LHC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider


When in operation, about seven thousand scientists from eighty countries will have access to the LHC. It is theorized that the collider will produce the elusive Higgs boson, the last unobserved particle among those predicted by the Standard Model. The verification of the existence of the Higgs boson would shed light on the mechanism of electroweak symmetry breaking, through which the particles of the Standard Model are thought to acquire their mass. In addition to the Higgs boson, new particles predicted by possible extensions of the Standard Model might be produced at the LHC. More generally, physicists hope that the LHC will enhance their ability to answer the following questions:

Is the Higgs mechanism for generating elementary particle masses in the Standard Model indeed realised in nature?[7] If so, how many Higgs bosons are there, and what are their masses?
Are electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force just different manifestations of a single unified force, as predicted by various Grand Unification Theories?
Why is gravity so many orders of magnitude weaker than the other three fundamental forces? See also Hierarchy problem.
Is Supersymmetry realised in nature, implying that the known Standard Model particles have supersymmetric partners?
Will the more precise measurements of the masses and decays of the quarks continue to be mutually consistent within the Standard Model?
Why are there apparent violations of the symmetry between matter and antimatter? See also CP-violation.
What is the nature of dark matter and dark energy?
Are there extra dimensions[8] , as predicted by various models inspired by string theory, and can we "see" them?
Of the possible discoveries the LHC might make, only the discovery of the Higgs particle is relatively uncontroversial, but even this is not considered a certainty. Stephen Hawking said in a BBC interview that "I think it will be much more exciting if we don't find the Higgs. That will show something is wrong, and we need to think again. I have a bet of one hundred dollars that we won't find the Higgs." In the same interview Hawking mentions the possibility of finding superpartners and adds that "whatever the LHC finds, or fails to find, the results will tell us a lot about the structure of the universe."[9]

[Nightshade]

What I dont understand is why we care about the structure of the universe?

[Virgil]

It isn't one experiment, they hope to answer several questions with the LHC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Quote:
When in operation, about seven thousand scientists from eighty countries will have access to the LHC. It is theorized that the collider will produce the elusive Higgs boson, the last unobserved particle among those predicted by the Standard Model. The verification of the existence of the Higgs boson would shed light on the mechanism of electroweak symmetry breaking, through which the particles of the Standard Model are thought to acquire their mass. In addition to the Higgs boson, new particles predicted by possible extensions of the Standard Model might be produced at the LHC. More generally, physicists hope that the LHC will enhance their ability to answer the following questions:

Is the Higgs mechanism for generating elementary particle masses in the Standard Model indeed realised in nature?[7] If so, how many Higgs bosons are there, and what are their masses?
Are electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force just different manifestations of a single unified force, as predicted by various Grand Unification Theories?
Why is gravity so many orders of magnitude weaker than the other three fundamental forces? See also Hierarchy problem.
Is Supersymmetry realised in nature, implying that the known Standard Model particles have supersymmetric partners?
Will the more precise measurements of the masses and decays of the quarks continue to be mutually consistent within the Standard Model?
Why are there apparent violations of the symmetry between matter and antimatter? See also CP-violation.
What is the nature of dark matter and dark energy?
Are there extra dimensions[8] , as predicted by various models inspired by string theory, and can we "see" them?
Of the possible discoveries the LHC might make, only the discovery of the Higgs particle is relatively uncontroversial, but even this is not considered a certainty. Stephen Hawking said in a BBC interview that "I think it will be much more exciting if we don't find the Higgs. That will show something is wrong, and we need to think again. I have a bet of one hundred dollars that we won't find the Higgs." In the same interview Hawking mentions the possibility of finding superpartners and adds that "whatever the LHC finds, or fails to find, the results will tell us a lot about the structure of the universe."[9]


Interesting stuff. Perhaps it is worth the money. Still that's a lot of money.

[qspeechc]

Apparently when Faraday was asked what good a new invention was he replied "What good is a new born baby?"

It is supplying jobs to very many people-- all those physicists-- and the people who built it. And as Hawking said, it will nevertheless give very interesting and important answers to physicists.

[Lily Adams]

So we've all heard of the LHC- the most news coverage physics has ever recieved in its history. So what do you think of it? Fantastic that we're asking the big questions, or a complete waste of money? We haven't all disappeared into a black hole yet, so that's a good point.

I am of the opinion that it is a waste of money, but so then are very many other things. At least this tells us something interesting. It's about time some money was put into physics. Just think how much money is put into sports: stadia, events, watering the grass for golf etc.

I won't post links, because you can google it yourself, except this one, because it links other pages:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7604293.stm

This is funny, I was thinking today about how when I was going to get home and make a topic about this...

I pretty much agree with you. Whatever. I like (scratch that, LOVE) physics, so it's cool. Even though are probably more important things to spend money on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQNpucos9wc

I wanna know about the birth of our universe! Pretty awesome.

[Taliesin]

Also, don't forget to check www.hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet. com/ (http://www.hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet. com/) concerning the latest information about the apocalypse.

Personally, I support it.

"All right... all right... but apart from welfare society, the Internet, mass communication, efficient forms of transport, medicine ...(continue ad nauseatum)... what have the scientists ever done for us?"

[Nightshade]

I think I just need someone to explain the purpose of it to me without the mass hysteria of either side .

[TheFifthElement]

I have to say, this is one of the funniest things I've ever seen (next to the Wordsworth rap, that is) http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM

[Virgil]

I think I just need someone to explain the purpose of it to me without the mass hysteria of either side .
It comes down to understanding the fundemental nature of subatomic particles. It's essentially a validation of postulated theory of how atoms (and therefore everything in the universe) hold together. Frankly I thought we had done this already, but perhaps not.


I have to say, this is one of the funniest things I've ever seen (next to the Wordsworth rap, that is) http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM
That is hilarious Fifth. Now people really see what engineers and scientists do all day, dance to rap music while playing around with crazy things. :p;)

[TheFifthElement]

That is hilarious Fifth. Now people really see what engineers and scientists do all day, dance to rap music while playing around with crazy things. :p;)

The LHC is super-duper fly!

Has to be the best Stephen Hawking quote ever!

[sprinks]

Wasn't this type of thing in a Dan Brown novel? Angels and Demons wasn't it? :confused: Now that's all I think of when people discuss this :lol:

[idiosynchrissy]

I'm all for scientific research. Let those particles fly! If, by chance, it creates some pesky black holes, so be it. I'm thinking they will envelop us before we get the chance to rue the day we built the collider.

[Lily Adams]

The LHC is super-duper fly!

Has to be the best Stephen Hawking quote ever!

:lol: That video was so silly.

[tractatus]

Wasn't this type of thing in a Dan Brown novel? Angels and Demons wasn't it? :confused: Now that's all I think of when people discuss this :lol:

Yes, I havent read the book, but true. Once he put the photos of the places in book to his web page, including CERN but not sure if still there.

[Virgil]

Here's a follow up to the story:


CERN: Damage to new collider forces 2-month halt
By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press Writer

GENEVA - The world's largest atom smasher — which was launched with great fanfare earlier this month — has been damaged worse than previously thought and will be out of commission for at least two months, its operators said Saturday.

Experts have gone into 17-mile (27-kilometer) circular tunnel housing the Large Hadron Collider under the Swiss-French border to examine the damage that halted operations about 36 hours after its Sept. 10 startup, said James Gillies, spokesman for CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

"It's too early to say precisely what happened, but it seems to be a faulty electrical connection between two magnets that stopped superconducting, melted and led to a mechanical failure and let the helium out," Gillies told The Associated Press.

Gillies said the sector that was damaged will have to be warmed up well above the absolute zero temperature used for operations so that repairs can be made — a time-consuming process.

"A number of magnets raised their temperature by around 100 degrees," Gillies said. "We have now to warm up the whole sector in a controlled manner before we can actually go in and repair it."

The $10 billion particle collider, in the design and construction stages for more than two decades, is the world's largest atom smasher. It fires beams of protons from the nuclei of atoms around the tunnels at nearly the speed of light... [Snip]

Hmm, maybe it wasn't worth the money.

[The Atheist]

Hmm, maybe it wasn't worth the money.

Nah, just a few teething troubles.

Look at what went on with both the Mars mission and Hubble before they got the bugs ironed out. And Hubble's already obsolete.

E10bn isn't that much money when compared to other profligacy.