Going veggie shrinks the brain

[Virgil]

Most know here that I've had my disputes with those here who believe that vegetarianism is actually healthier. Well here's more food (pun intended ;)) for thought.



Going veggie shrinks the brain
September 12, 2008 07:45pm

SCIENTISTS have discovered that going veggie could be bad for your brain - with those on a meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage.

Vegans and vegetarians — such as Heather Mills — are the most likely to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are meat, particularly liver, milk and fish.

Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause anaemia and inflammation of the nervous system.

Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which provide good levels of the vitamin.

The link was discovered by Oxford University scientists who used memory tests, physical checks and brain scans to examine 107 people between the ages of 61 and 87.

When the volunteers were retested five years later the medics found those with the lowest levels of vitamin B12 were also the most likely to have brain shrinkage. It confirms earlier research showing a link between brain atrophy and low levels of B12. [SNIP]
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24336544-23272,00.html

[samercury]

I've seen that article, but its main argument was that low levels of vitamin B12- which you can always take in as a supplement- is linked to brain shrinkage (being vegetarian can be quite healthy if you actually take in the vitamins/ proteins that you're supposed to). ;) Besides, a bunch of stuff can be 'linked' to brain shrinkage.
-not a vegetarian, by the way, just saying-

[TheFifthElement]

:lol: this reminds me of the time when marmite was believed to be the source of world peace, see article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/de-bonos-marmite-plan-for-peace-in-middle-yeast-740189.html

clearly marmite is a wonder-food. Perhaps someone can explain why I invariably crave it on a Saturday morning?

[motherhubbard]

I've never heard of Marmite before. Is it stiff like peanut butter or runny like syrup?

[Nightshade]

:lol: this reminds me of the time when marmite was believed to be the source of world peace, see article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/de-bonos-marmite-plan-for-peace-in-middle-yeast-740189.html

clearly marmite is a wonder-food. Perhaps someone can explain why I invariably crave it on a Saturday morning?

Oh I remember that! Cant help thinking that wouldnt work somehow... :lol:

[AuntShecky]

Gee, do you think I could get my brain to shrink to the size of
Albert Einstein's? (In other words, "size doesn't matter.")

[Bakiryu]

And that's why you should clearly take your vitamins.

I have several supplements daily and my doctors agree I'm in perfect health.

Also, what's marmite?

[TheFifthElement]

I've never heard of Marmite before. Is it stiff like peanut butter or runny like syrup?

it's kind of in between, more syrupy than peanut buttery. I think Marmite is a UK brand, basically it's yeast extract, info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

I am now craving Marmite!

[Weisinheimer]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I do think it's probably healthier. One can always take supplements, and if you're not vegan you can use milk and stuff.

[The Atheist]

Always seemed like a no-brainer to me. Why take supplements for something which can be obtained naturally and easily?

Evolutionarily, we are omnivores. Our closest animal relatives are omnivores, our mouths and digestive systems are designed to eat an omnivorous diet and our very bodies require an omnivorous diet to keep healthy without resorting to taking supplementaries.

That said, our need for red meat is a lot less than most of the western world consumes and in fact a diet of insects and rodents is what we should ideally be eating. I do, however doubt that an entree of sauteed cockroaches with a spider sauce followed by main of toasted rat on a bed of pan-fried maggots with fresh salad would be a big seller.

[Janine]

Well, Virgil, they say we only use a portion of our brains anyway, so maybe that will alow for some shrinkage. Also, I think brains do shrink when we get older. Bodies and spinal structure is known to shrink.

Well, I guess my brain won't shrink too much because I eat tons of ice-cream, drink milk, like fish, occasionally eat some mean althought I eat more chicken nowdays due to IBS. I also take Vitamin B12 - gee, no wonder I am so smart!!! :lol:

[Virgil]

Always seemed like a no-brainer to me. Why take supplements for something which can be obtained naturally and easily?

Evolutionarily, we are omnivores. Our closest animal relatives are omnivores, our mouths and digestive systems are designed to eat an omnivorous diet and our very bodies require an omnivorous diet to keep healthy without resorting to taking supplementaries.

That said, our need for red meat is a lot less than most of the western world consumes and in fact a diet of insects and rodents is what we should ideally be eating. I do, however doubt that an entree of sauteed cockroaches with a spider sauce followed by main of toasted rat on a bed of pan-fried maggots with fresh salad would be a big seller.
Exactly!! I think I've said exactly what you have said several times over, except for the diet of insects and rodents. :sick: I can do without that. :lol:


Well, Virgil, they say we only use a portion of our brains anyway, so maybe that will alow for some shrinkage. Also, I think brains do shrink when we get older. Bodies and spinal structure is known to shrink.

Well, I guess my brain won't shrink too much because I eat tons of ice-cream, drink milk, like fish, occasionally eat some mean althought I eat more chicken nowdays due to IBS. I also take Vitamin B12 - gee, no wonder I am so smart!!! :lol:
They may shrink because we are not absorbing B12. I think that older people have a harder time absorbing B12. Not really sure if supplements do it. My mother actually has to get B12 shots monthly. So that's why you're so smart. ;)

[Nightshade]

I do love my meat ...although I dont think that brain shrinkage can be attributed solely to diet, I am fairly sure there would be alot of extraneous circumstances needed to bring that about... Ill have tro lok it up properly..but I do know that Aspartame, which is what you get in most drinks that say no added suguar to create the sweet taste, is know to affect your brain and memory.

it's kind of in between, more syrupy than peanut buttery. I think Marmite is a UK brand, basically it's yeast extract, info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

On the subject of marmite.. some marmite adverts, just saw them on the TV ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaJ154r77EU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ti30s25qrY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Y3qgi3Og8

[Janine]

Here is a good article on aspartame:

http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm


You might want to check out the long term effects of MSG also.

[Poetess]

You guys are right..
I have been recommended 9 medical tests because I do not eat meat, I just did the last one.. I only eat chicken burger sometimes and grilled chicken with red sauce (called tawook) and actually grilled so much it`s burned. I might have one kind of grilled fish. It`s not because I think it is healthier, I just can`t stand eating meat..

So, my skin is pretty yellow now and I can`t stretch my hands for over 5 seconds.. that this is physically.. about the mind shrink... I don`t know.. I already put the coffee cup on the gas to heat it instead of the water.. does this count? lol

[blazeofglory]

I do not subscribe to all these ideas that vegetarian diets are deficient in any important food contents.

[wilbur lim]

Thereby,can we genuinely conclude that vegetables shrinks the brain or not?I do not love meat for they are ultimately junk foods.Nay,my apologies,I mean oily foods are junks and not palatable.

[Lily Adams]

Well, Virgil, they say we only use a portion of our brains anyway, so maybe that will alow for some shrinkage. Also, I think brains do shrink when we get older. Bodies and spinal structure is known to shrink.

Two myths-that we only use part of our brain, and that size is in direct correlation to intelligence.

People who don't eat meat/dairy products do have to be careful, though.

[TheFifthElement]

Yes, I'd agree with this:


Always seemed like a no-brainer to me. Why take supplements for something which can be obtained naturally and easily?

Evolutionarily, we are omnivores. Our closest animal relatives are omnivores, our mouths and digestive systems are designed to eat an omnivorous diet and our very bodies require an omnivorous diet to keep healthy without resorting to taking supplementaries.

That said, our need for red meat is a lot less than most of the western world consumes and in fact a diet of insects and rodents is what we should ideally be eating. I do, however doubt that an entree of sauteed cockroaches with a spider sauce followed by main of toasted rat on a bed of pan-fried maggots with fresh salad would be a big seller.

though I think current western diet incorporates far more meat than we need, and that probably most people need to incorporate more fruit and veg into their diet. I suppose the key, as always, is balance. Having a healthy, balanced diet incorporating all food groups has got to be the best option.

But if the thought of eating meat makes you sick then you have to think about your mind health too. I would never counsel forcing someone to eat meat against their principles or judgement. Plus I do wonder if there is some kind of genetic pre-disposition towards vegetarianism - so whilst it might be the norm for people to need meat in their diet, aren't there always exceptions? Perhaps some people don't like meat because they don't need meat? Also, vegetarianism seems (and this is a value judgement based on experience, I have no data to back it up!) to be more common in women, which would seem sensible as, thinking to how early man would have lived, women would have 'grazed' on what was available and had less access to meat than the hunting men would.


Here is a good article on aspartame:

http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm


interesting article Janine. We found that my son was very sensitive to aspartame when he was younger (it made him absolutely crazy!) and so we tried to cut it out entirely from his diet. Better to have sugar, run around and brush his teeth.

[kasie]

Interesting thought connecting women and vegetarianism, Fifth - makes sense to me anyway.

As I've got older I don't enjoy meat very much, can't digest it so well these days. Does this mean my brain is shrinking? Answers on a postcard should be sent to.....

Marmite - yeeuugggh! (Can't digest yeast either, which is probably why I've always been in the 'loathe it' half of the population!)

[mortalterror]

I wouldn't attribute the vegetarianism or vegan lifestyle choices to genetic or hormonal factors unless you could link being a pansy liberal to some chromosome; because I've never met a single conservative who wouldn't eat meat if you gave it to them. Unless your doctor has specifically told you that you cannot eat certain types of food and you engage in these ridiculous practices then you have an eating disorder akin to anorexia or bulimia, except in this case the dysfunction is projected onto what is taken into a body rather than the body itself. The disorder is called righteous eating when you apply a moral imperative to a simple bodily act. It's cultural and a little like the way people describe certain kinds of sex as good and evil because of a world view they had forced on them growing up. It's pathological, and it can be unlearned.

[Taliesin]

Interesting.
Let's try to put this song into a slightly different tune.

I wouldn't attribute the non-cannibalism lifestyle choices to genetic or hormonal factors unless you could link being a pansy liberal to some chromosome; because I've never met a single conservative who wouldn't eat human meat if you gave it to them. Unless your doctor has specifically told you that you cannot eat certain types of food and you engage in these ridiculous practices then you have an eating disorder akin to anorexia or bulimia, except in this case the dysfunction is projected onto what is taken into a body rather than the body itself. The disorder is called righteous eating when you apply a moral imperative to a simple bodily act. It's cultural and a little like the way people describe certain kinds of sex as good and evil because of a world view they had forced on them growing up. It's pathological, and it can be unlearned.


Well, I guess that this could be true too.

[Virgil]

Plus I do wonder if there is some kind of genetic pre-disposition towards vegetarianism - so whilst it might be the norm for people to need meat in their diet, aren't there always exceptions? Perhaps some people don't like meat because they don't need meat? Also, vegetarianism seems (and this is a value judgement based on experience, I have no data to back it up!) to be more common in women, which would seem sensible as, thinking to how early man would have lived, women would have 'grazed' on what was available and had less access to meat than the hunting men would.

Your intuition seems to be correct Fifth, at least according to Wiki:


Demographics

[edit] Gender
A 1992 market research study conducted by the Yankelovich research organisation claimed that "of the 12.4 million people who call themselves vegetarian, 68 percent are female while only 32 percent are male."[151]

Some studies show that vegetarian women are much more likely to have female babies. A study of 6,000 pregnant women in 1998 "found that while the national average in Britain is 106 boys born to every 100 girls, for vegetarian mothers the ratio was just 85 boys to 100 girls."[152] This research was dismissed by Catherine Collins, of the British Dietetic Association, as a "statistical fluke".[152]

There is some speculation that diets high in soy, due to high isoflavone content, can have a feminising effect on humans due to the phytoestrogens contained. Proponents of this theory claim that diets high in isoflavones promote earlier onset of female puberty and delayed male puberty.[153] However, a 2001 study conducted by the University of Pennsylvania found no significant differences in the later onset of puberty between infants raised on soy-based formula and cow milk formula.[154]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

Now your image of women "grazng" struck me as very funny. :lol: Gives a whole different meaning to the old cow. :D Interesting how a "feminising" effect from eating soy is postulated, though I'm skeptical on that.


As I've got older I don't enjoy meat very much, can't digest it so well these days.
Kasie, this is not unusual. My mother has a similar problem and I've gotten her to eat an egg daily, or almost daily. I'm told that this is not unusual for elderly. It can lead to a B12 deficiency, and that according to the article is what leads to brain shrinkage. My mother takes monthly B12 shots. In fact the reason they found her B12 deficiency was because a neurologist decided to check her B12 levels in a blood test. She had been complaining of constant headaches and the regular doctors attributed it to migraines. She had been living with headache pills for the longest time until the neurologist found her B12 level low. This is not part of a regular blood test, at least around here, that's why it was never found. If you have this aversion to meat I would ask your doctor to check your B12 level in your next blood test. Her headaches and what this article says makes me think that her brain may have been shrinking. After getting her B12 shots and supplements, my mother no longer has these headaches. It was almost an immediate thing.

One other point. The article says that the correlation between brain shrinkage and B12 deficiency was over five times. That's a very strong correlation and not something that is vague, or as we say in engineering, "in the noise." If what the article is saying is truthful, then I would take it seriously.

[JBI]

For half of us, going swimming in really cold water shrinks the brain too.


I wouldn't attribute the vegetarianism or vegan lifestyle choices to genetic or hormonal factors unless you could link being a pansy liberal to some chromosome; because I've never met a single conservative who wouldn't eat meat if you gave it to them. Unless your doctor has specifically told you that you cannot eat certain types of food and you engage in these ridiculous practices then you have an eating disorder akin to anorexia or bulimia, except in this case the dysfunction is projected onto what is taken into a body rather than the body itself. The disorder is called righteous eating when you apply a moral imperative to a simple bodily act. It's cultural and a little like the way people describe certain kinds of sex as good and evil because of a world view they had forced on them growing up. It's pathological, and it can be unlearned.

That is true, but there are also those who don't eat certain (or perhaps all) meats because they just don't like the taste.

[kasie]

Kasie, this is not unusual. My mother has a similar problem and I've gotten her to eat an egg daily, or almost daily. I'm told that this is not unusual for elderly...

Just watch who you are calling elderly, my good man. :flare:

In fact, given your remarks about cows, just watch it. At all times. You Have Been Warned. :D

[Virgil]

Just watch who you are calling elderly, my good man. :flare:

In fact, given your remarks about cows, just watch it. At all times. You Have Been Warned. :D

:blush::blush:I'm not sure if you are teasing or not, but either case I do apologize.

[AuntShecky]

It doesn't matter to me whether vegetarianism is "healthy" to me; but one thing for sure, it's healthier for the cow!

Seriously, though, we have to think not of ourselves but about the planet. The world's most precious resource is not oil -- it's water! It takes millions of FEWER gallons to produce grain than it is to produce livestock feed. Also, the millions of acres now allotted to grazing land could be used as arable land to produce a larger volume of food in the form of vegetables and grains, and could be distributed to the hungry people of the world, instead of merely to those who can afford to buy meat. Also, the methane produced from the waste of cattle is a prime culprit in producing greenhouse gases, which contribute to global warming.
Those are just a couple of reasons vegetarianism is a responsible choice.

[Sweets America]

So, my brains are going to shrink? :p

I'm not sure that these theories are to be taken too seriously because in some years scientists might find that they were wrong, it's always like this with science.

Mortalterror, I personally don't eat meat because I just don't like the taste and the sensation when I chew it, and that's no eating disorder. As a side note, saying that people who don't eat meat because of a belief have an eating disorder sounds quite condescending, judgemental and closed-minded in my opinion.

[Scheherazade]

Wow! If the brains of all these people have shrunk, wonder what they would have achieved had they not been vegeraritians...

http://www.happycow.net/famous_vegetarians.html

:D

[kasie]

:blush::blush:I'm not sure if you are teasing or not, but either case I do apologize.

Apology accepted. :D (Yes, I was teasing.....I think.....We ladies of a certain age are a mite sensitive at times!)

[Janine]

I have basically stopped eatting beef. I only eat it on occasion. The reason I stopped eating it was I have IBS and it seemed to really aggravate my symptoms. For one I don't think beef tastes nearly as good as it did when I was a kid. I think they put so many additive for preserving it and also they give the animals all kinds of harmful hormones that do get to the person partaking in the beef. I used to love steaks, hamburgers, etc., but then I noticed that any type of beef, except fillet mignon actually made me sick; eventually fillet bothered my symptoms, also. I never thought I could exist solely on chicken and fish, but I do now, and I don't feel any worse for it. In fact, I think my brain functions better. I worry about chicken; and the fact of added hormones and additives, also. I am not quite sure what is exactly safe to eat anymore, since my IBS symptoms have become more accute; I have become more wary and maybe paranoid about foods. I must be on a strict diet for another chronic condition I have, IC. I check labels constantly and even non-meat products can have a lot of harmful ingredients in them - some are disguised, so beware. I can only read as much as I can (online and in magazines) to try and educate myself to just what is in certain foods and then try to avoid those. I guess what I am saying is: I don't think that meat, per ce, is the culprit here; I think it is the quality of meat we are offered these days and I do feel it falls short, of what was offered to us years back - the meat does not taste the same at all - so what is with that? I have trouble getting really fresh fish in my area, also, and I hate it pre-frozen. Most fish in the US is farm-raised...not a good thing...those are given antibiotics and these eventually cause all kinds of health issues and conditions. Humans were not designed to consume antibiotics on a daily basis.

I don't know what the answer is to food and safety anymore. One must read and become educated to what foods are harmful and which ones do contain too may additives - those additives can shrink your brain faster, than a piece of really fresh meat. I am confinced of that fact and yet I do not think red meat today is not very good for us.

[Gobbo]

it's tough, eh?

I went off meat for 6 months, and really didn't mind it. Since then I will eat chicken on occasion, or some fish. I avoid tofu and try to get the good soy when I do.

I kill cheese, though. Like I eat a lot of cheese.

[tractatus]

Wow! If the brains of all these people have shrunk, wonder what they would have achieved had they not been vegeraritians...

http://www.happycow.net/famous_vegetarians.html

:D

I think its like smoking. Not every smoker...

[traytray]

ummhmm..indeed..interesting. i eat fish.( CERTAIN KINDS). mostly salmon. i don't eat other meats..i do like squid..(calamari)..and frog at times. i take supplements..but i eat other foods rich in nutrients also. i like different kinds of nuts..which gives me protein. i love whole grains too. i fix organic meats and food for my boys. so besides fish and the occasional frog and calamari i'll take my chances with the brain shrinking. the thing about science..they're always finding something that's killing us..or is bad for us. i'm sure there are other things out there shrinking my brain right at this very moment..as i sit here typing away :lol: there's always something out there in the media to make one ponder away..create a sort of panic...not me..i'll do as i please..i dance to the beat of my own drum :goof: and so will mister banana dude :banana:..he is saying EAT ME SCIENCE :brow: