Is it all about BEING ALIVE and REMAINING?

[NewDiscovery]

is it all about BEING ALIVE AND REMAINING?
Does Disciple John remain? John 21 v 22
Who are THE ''WE'' who remain alive.

I had a ''breakthru'' in thinking
I had a glimpse of dot joining so here goes...let's investigate.

#1 - if you were never sick nor ill in any manner.
#2 - if you were always protected and under the ''duty-of-care'' from Father so all accidents were averted
#3 -if you were being continually re-newed daily and running the race to the finishing line.
how could you die a physical death - WHEN IN FACT, you were dying daily to the world the flesh the devil, by understanding how to make correct choices called LIFE choices

facts are this.

''By His stripes I am healed.'' - # 1
'' I will never leave you nor foresake you'' - #2
'' and be RENEWED in the Spirit of your mind'' # 3

Now, HOW COULD a believer [John 11 v 25-26] physically DIE, if all this was taking place, today, right here, within this believing person

see,
Once our soul comes into her rightfull place, as a helpmeet to her husband, [the divine true man inside] the body responds and the 3 in 1 package deal becomes NORMAL again, rather than, the deceived soul in control and the spiritual man a timid pip-squeak and the body racked by ruin.

It seems to be that somehow most people in this world follow ''A RELIGION'' but most people die phsically.
It is an acceptable thing to die and an in·ev·i·ta·bil·i·ty as death is Lord and must be obeyed.

however -the Messiah came to Abolish death. This is the goodnews Paul preached [ 2 Tim.1 v 9-11]

Then ofcourse......
THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE, Messiah told of it in John 11 v 25-26.
Messiah now showed forth a NEW WAY OF LIVING, with a NEW PRIEST in power and a NEW WORLD arriving and all OLD THINGS, (passing away and) ceasing.

However most enjoy the OLD WORLD and its toys like Mrs Lot.
Mrs Lot failed ! she had her chance but - ''she''- the deceived soul within her looked back.
Mrs Lot, was a member of the most religious group of her day.
Disciple Peter and the other disciples failed, the day of the cross too.
[Disciple John stood at the cross as a friend and the only man eye witness.]
They were not eyewitnesses as THE ''SHE'' in them, filled them with fears, so they hid. Infact the enemy was not outside of them [called the Jews] but inside themselves.
THE ENEMY WITHIN - the mind of carnal reasonings.
BUT why do most fail......?
Because their soul {eve] is still controlling.
The will of carnal man within is an enemy of God.
People's will, take them to their graves.
however
The Saviour's will implanted into the womb of the BELIEVERS mind shall allow them to physically remain alive to LIVE as The spiritual man inside them waxes strong and in the power of the Saviour's might. HE IS THE CONTROLLER AND WHEN THIS HAPPENS demons tremble.

Our will has to be subdued and the new man - our arisen spiritual Man within -must control and tame the soul, so she is saved.
Then our body, is governed by the Life of the Spirit and lives, by returning back to the original DNA blue print shown by Messiah on the Mt of Transfiguration. [Math 17]

The Truth has make us free and this truth is not by our own reasoning but applying to ourselves THE WORD. ''His Stripes heals us''....now that IS THE TRUTH. The more truth gets into us by Faith and action the less we become sick for the Spiritual man within us supplying our needs now not our carnal soul.

[PS the healing here by HIS Stripes is both physical and spiritual. Physical diseases and weakenesses are shadows of sin and rebellion.
HIS Stripes heal us because we are being united with Messiah in HIS suffering and sin (the old soul or man) is being defeated and put to death as we learn to live in Messiah. Most people think of physical healing when they think of Messiah's stripes when the real healing is spiritual. It is true that the physical must follow or manifest the spiritual.)

SO!
We become like a spiritual wrestler, and a spiritual hero in a new way of living.

now some could ask....''what if'' this or that happens, laying forth a tragic scene...of what if's.

DID YE KNOW, THAT THE MIDDLE VERSE of the entire bible is Psalm 118 v 8


"it is better to TRUST in the lord, than put confidence in man''


let us understand our problem


The deceived soul cannot trust In the Real Father, only in herself.
If ye cannot trust - the carnalminded soul is still in control. amen. - THIS IS DEATH still ruling over you.

What a hard lesson to learn.:flare:
for
it is the complete reversal of everything this evil world has trained us all to have our 'confidence' in.

We can learn to TRUST IN HIM, by having a complete reliance upon Him alone, we make it and death is no more ruling over us WHY? because our religion has become a RELATIONSHIP and in this relationship, DEVOTION and Love hold hands.

John loved.
Disciple John stood unafraid at the Cross with His Saviour.
John understood relationship....notice John was never asked By his Saviour ''do ye Love Me''.


WE are only FREE, when death is no longer our Lord.
Did John know this?

The deceived soul cannot trust In the Real Father, only in herself.
If ye cannot trust HIM- the carnalminded soul is still in control. amen. - THIS IS DEATH still ruling over you.

So does Apostle John remain, along with the ''we'' who remain [present tense]
__________________

[Resolute]

Hi Everyone,

This is an informational post concerning the "we" of 1 Corinthians 15:51:
Behold, I relate to you a mystery, we all shall not be made to sleep, but we all shall be transformed.The personal pronoun we does not exist by itself in the Greek text as it appears to do so in our various English translations. The we in the Greek text is contained in the form of the Greek verb which is used. Both of the latter verbs in the above verse are passive. They are both 1st person plural (this tells us to translate the verb with a we), and both are future tense.

Here is what the future tense conveys in the Greek language:
The use of the Future Indicative in the Greek denotes that the action is expected to take place in future time.
The context decides whether the state of the action is to be regarded as simple or progressive.If Paul was only speaking of a future generation, then it was improper for him to include himself and the Corinthians in this discussion of all those being made to fall asleep by using the 1st person plural. A future generation would have been better indicated by the 3rd person plural, i.e. they all shall not be made to fall asleep. By using the 1st person plural, Paul is including himself and those to whom his letter is addressed as being amongst those who may or may not be made to sleep future to the writing of his letter. It is the same for those who ultimately are transformed because they were not made to fall asleep.

In verse 52, Paul again uses the 1st person plural future passive form of the Greek verb, allasso. Only this time Paul does use the 1st person plural personal pronoun to go with the Greek verb. This pronoun is added for emphasis so that the we is definitely understood and emphasized!

What is the logic of the mystery here? There is nothing mysterious about everyone growing old and dying, is there? However, it is indeed mysterious if Paul is saying that some of the Believers of the 1st Century might indeed live until the transformation. That would make some of them about 2000 years old right now, wouldn't it?

It is almost as if this was written for them and for us:
Habakkuk 1:5,12
5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.......................we shall not die (verse 12).How about you all? Do you expect to live until the Change?

Sincerely, Resolute

[NewDiscovery]

wow
how interesting Resolute - thanks for this information and it is amazing what a believer finds out with study hey?

so...this ''we'' written in the NT applied to them 2000yrs ago and not too ''some last generation''?
also
this ''we'' is very present, as long as 'certain conditions' are met?

is this what your'e saying please?

[Resolute]

Hi New Discovery,
this ''we'' is very present, as long as 'certain conditions' are met?Absolutely! Did not Messiah Yahushua without reservation say this:
John 15:4
4 Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it remain in the vine; no more can ye, except ye remain in me.If the whole world has been cleansed from all uncleanness through the saving work of Messiah Yahushua, why is it that no one in the world has the capacity to remain with the resurrected Messiah in HIS LIFE NOW? Why is it that no one in the world, no matter whether they be Christian or Jew, why is it that none have been separated from the uncleanness of Death in order that they might remain with and in Messiah?

Have not we all been commanded:
Isaiah 52:11
11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of YAHWEH.Why, therefore, do all demonstrate absolutely no capacity to remain alive in Messiah Yahushua? Why do all, without experiencing violence, why do all grow older, get sick, and eventually die as a branch that withereth? Why do all still touch and taste that most foul of things, Death?

Sincerely, Resolute

[NewDiscovery]

for the Law of sin and death still prevails over all denominational churches [1 corinthians 1 v 10] - a house divided.
therefore
The Law of ''Life in the Spirit'' has not been lived within.... for when a Believer lives in this new form of life, [ called the new creature, where all old things have passed away] all their deaths including physical death is overcome. A Believer by 'remaining' In Christ is released from their sin and their deaths, for they have been taught by the Holy Spirit how to 'remain' -
to become this ''we'' you have referred too.
yes/no/maybe?


None can ''REMAIN'' when sin and death has not been overcome, for we are all told, the wages of sin -is death INC. physical death

what say ye?

[Resolute]

Hi New Discovery,

Yes, the Christian world is divided and lacking unity. Actually, a divided house is a perfect description of death. Death causes a man or a woman to loose control over their own personal house which exists as a unity of spirit and flesh. Without the presence of spirit, our flesh looses its vitality and begins to decay and to melt away as a rotting corpse.

Can death be overcome? Is it possible for each of us to learn how to maintain the unity of our spirit and flesh? LIFE is the union of spirit and flesh. Can this union be maintained, or is mankind forever doomed to suffer this divorce or division within themselves which we commonly call DEATH?

Do all marriages end in divorce? Some marriages endure, do they not? Why? There are secrets to maintaining successful marriages. In a similar manner, there are secrets to overcoming death by maintaining the union of the spirit and the flesh in one body. If one should learn how to do this, is this not called Eternal Life?

Now, there will be those who scoff and say that maintaining life is impossible. Indeed, do not the sacred writings testify to our sorry inability to live and not die? Absolutely:
Ecclesiastes 8:8
8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.Does anyone here think that the coming of a Savior might somehow amend this lack of power? Does anyone here think that in our own war against death, that a Savior has come to give us all a discharge in our own personal war?

If Messiah Yahushua is your Savior, why does the whole Christian world continue to fight and loose in their war against death? Why does the whole Christian world have no power to retain their spirits?

Sincerely, Resolute

[NewDiscovery]

how clear you have laid out the arguement of Eternal life, here and for the Believers, [the meek] to inherit the Earth.
thank you.

Now I agree here with your observations and bible teaching that the Messiah did bring forth the anointed power called 'CHRIST' to re-generate His Believer into His Image, not when they are dead, but, while LIVING so they are transformed and renewed into the New creature.
They have been s.a.v.e.d. FROM destruction and s.a.v.e.d from the horror twins the laws of sin and death.

We [ as Believers] have a NEW PRIESTHOOD with a high Priest now placed in the realm of ENDLESS LIFE.
The Former Priesthood where the priests continually died has passed. hurrah
Hebrews 7 ofcourse tells a Believer all about the switch.


Do you think, that the average church go-er still sits under the old order of the Levitical Priesthood and by doing so ...dies... as they really have not passed over from death into life.

[Wintermute]

I'm sorry y'all, but I almost died trying to follow this thread. You two are way, way to smart for me.

All I know is that by treating others with compassion and respect, I think I can find real happiness. Hopefully this will make the process of dieing and leaving this planet (if that is what happens) less distressing.

Being unable to understand even 5% of what y'all are talking about, I think I'll stick to my theory.

Peace,
Doug

[NikolaiI]

I believe in Christ but I also believe in other faiths. The only crime that Christians can be accused of is-- this is not all Christians, but some it is, and some it is very volatile-- not treating those of other faiths correctly. Christ Himself was persecuted, and the main message of His to love and not persecute. Love your enemy, because in Christ's eyes, no one is an enemy to any other. In Christ's eyes, whatever their status with Him is, it is not your concern, and you should always treat them the same, with love.

Of course you should teach them about Christ, but also you should simply teach them about Christ's love. If you never mention Christ but you are focused always on Him, then you will be 100% giving.

[Resolute]

Hi New Discovery,

You are quite welcome, and I thank you also for the grace of LIFE that I can see in you through our Savior, Messiah Yahushua who has given us the victory over the Law of Sin and Death and who has transferred us into HIS Kingdom from the dominion of HaSatan (Colossians 1:13) in order that we might live and walk (Ephesians 2:10) before HIM in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:24).

Presently, we possess this great gift of LIFE NOW in earthen vessels, our physical bodies (2 Corinthians 4:6-7), in order that HIS Light might arise from darkness to declare the mighty power of our Great ELOHIM and ADONAI, Messiah Yahushua.

To this end, we endure (remain or abide) in and with HIM in our earthen bodies to bear witness to HIS Great Love towards us until the Change (1 Corinthians 15:51-51) as a sign to this dark world.

Accordingly, I give thanks to Messiah for the metamorphosis (2 Corinthians 3:18, Romans 12:2) that is taking place in our lives, and especially in your life as an inspiration to me and to others whom you do love, until we also are translated as was Enoch:
Hebrews 11:5-6
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because ELOHIM had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased ELOHIM.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to ELOHIM must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.How about you, folks? When the time comes, do you desire to be transported at the Change or do you content yourselves with growing older, getting sick and dying as do all that have not pleased ELOHIM?

Sincerely, Resolute

[NewDiscovery]

do you think that the ''we'' who remain are not the '' aged and sick and dying christian churchians'' of all generations....right up to the present time?

BTW
you ask some good and very interesting questions - thanks for the brain-food.:p