Please help with Donne's Negative Love

[Ignoramus]

I'm listening to Philip Adams' Harmonium (choir and orchestra) where a huge first chunk is setting this poem (see below) to music.

I have no idea what this means, so I have signed up to this board in the hope that someone who is used to reading poems can explain? There was a quick Q+A about this 4 years ago on this board, but the two answers given there tell me nothing.

For example: Who are "they Which on an eye, cheek, lip, can prey"? All I can think of is having one's face bothered by buzzing flies, a common occurence in, say, Australia.

But what's this about "soaring higher than virtue, or the mind to admire?"
What's "higher than virtue" and Admire what?

"My love, though silly, is more brave" - why silly, and braver than what?

And so it goes - right to the end ("I cannot miss" - miss what?)

I'm totally baffled and hence the music makes less sense to me than it probably could or should. (Great recording! On ECM Records).

Many thanks


NEGATIVE LOVE.
by John Donne

I NEVER stoop'd so low, as they
Which on an eye, cheek, lip, can prey ;
Seldom to them which soar no higher
Than virtue, or the mind to admire.
For sense and understanding may
Know what gives fuel to their fire ;
My love, though silly, is more brave ;
For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
If I know yet what I would have.

If that be simply perfectest,
Which can by no way be express'd
But negatives, my love is so.
To all, which all love, I say no.
If any who deciphers best,
What we know not—ourselves—can know,
Let him teach me that nothing. This
As yet my ease and comfort is,
Though I speed not, I cannot miss.

[JBI]

Its a rhetoric game. It uses negative, verses positive, to define what he loves. Instead of saying, "I love this, that etc." or in his words, "an eye, cheek, lip," he merely knows what he doesn't love, and what he doesn't want, thereby leaving the element of growth, and surprise.

In essence, his love has no definition, as it isn't anything, but merely is not things.

The I cannot miss is actually a pun, meaning miss excitement/love, yet also miss as in land of the mark, land off of what he desires, be wrong.

[Ignoramus]

I sort of see what JBI means, and it is reinforced by this, the only part I think I can parse out:
"If that be simply perfectest,
Which can by no way be express'd
But negatives, my love is so."
Meaning that his love is one of those things that are at their best when expressed with negatives. But then - what does that mean, really?
The rest is just incomprehensible to me. Anyone?

[Paracelsus]

I NEVER stoop'd so low, as they
Which on an eye, cheek, lip, can prey ;

[The speaker of the poem – “I” – says that he never “stoop’d” or sunk so low as those lovers who claim that they love a woman because of some physical feature she has - her eyes, cheeks, or lips.]

Seldom to them which soar no higher
Than virtue, or the mind to admire.

[nor does he sink so low as those lovers who only look for moral qualities or spiritual qualities in their women (“virtue or the mind”)]

For sense and understanding may
Know what gives fuel to their fire ;

[because they know the exact reasons why they love – they know the things which fuel love’s fire.]

My love, though silly, is more brave ;
For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
If I know yet what I would have.

[But the speaker’s love, though it might seem frivolous to some (“silly” - or crazy since it has no "reason") is actually stronger and more real (“more brave”) ]

If that be simply perfectest,
Which can by no way be express'd
But negatives, my love is so.

[Donne is referring here to the field of “negative theology”, as derived from Dionysus the Areopagite, a sixth century Syrian monk, who taught that God was hidden in the darkness, and can only be understood by negatives – that is, by negations and by non-intellectual ways of knowing. He claims to love for the same reason, or lack of reason – an inexpressible or “negative” reason].

To all, which all love, I say no.

[He doesn’t agree with those who claim to love everything about their woman. ]

If any who deciphers best,
What we know not—ourselves—can know,
Let him teach me that nothing. This
As yet my ease and comfort is,
Though I speed not, I cannot miss.

[Donne often alludes to the idea that humans are low in self-knowledge. In fact, can we really know ourselves at all? If anyone claims to know his own mind, let him teach the speaker what the reasons are for love. The speaker is comforted in his belief because, although he doesn’t know exactly what it is he looking for in his love, he can’t fail for the same reason.

Hope this helps.

[iagoswife]

Very helpful, Paracelsus, thank you.

[Nick Capozzoli]

For example: Who are "they Which on an eye, cheek, lip, can prey"?
All I can think of is having one's face bothered by buzzing flies, a common occurence in, say, Australia...

I'm totally baffled and hence the music makes less sense to me than it probably could or should. (Great recording! On ECM Records).


Great comment about the buzzing flies, hilarious but right on. Yvor Winters, the great poet and critic, who is commonly regarded as a humorless curmudgeon, often made similarly hilarious but incisive comments about the "nonsense" he perceived in some poems. I like Donne, but much of his imagery is strained to the point of absurdity.