Bhagavad Gita

[NikolaiI]

Perhaps you have heard of this, perhaps this is the first time. Bhagavad Gita means, in Sanskrit, "the Song of Our Lord;" the text is a 700 verse song, with 18 chapters.

The Bhagavad Gita was first spoke millions of years ago, Krishna explains, to the sun god, Visisvan. He explains that He descends whenever there is a decline in religious practice, to annihilate the demons and to establish the devotees.

The Gita is the richest source of spiritual wisdom of which I know, equal to all. There are interpreters who say that it is only a book of wisdom, and the statements about Krishna being God are meaningless, but I don't know what their motives are.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was a devotee of Krishna who explains that Krishna is God because he fits the description. No one else is God, nor did Krishna become God. Krishna is God because he possesses the six qualities of supreme beauty, wealth, knowledge, renunciation, wisdom, and power. We are similar in that we have these qualities, but not to the same extent Krishna has.

The Bhagavad Gita is holy because it is the instructions of Krishna. Krishna explains the purpose of life is yoga, and the perfection of life is devotional yoga, or bhakti yoga; more specifically, service and devotion to God.

I've only read the Gita a few times, but I've discussed it a lot and chanted a lot; which is the prescription sacrifice for spiritual development in this age. I've attended lots of Bhagavad Gita classes; what I mean is I would love to open discussion of this holy book and I am most happy to give answers about the philosophy.

[Dark Muse]

I own a copy of it, but alas I fear I have not yet read it.

[NikolaiI]

That's great to hear. :) It's a wonderful resource.

[blazeofglory]

Nikolai, I have read it in Sanskrit when I was a child. I wrote once in reply to a post that I was obsessed with holy books in my babyhood. I was an enigmatic boy and had interest in great classics prematurely. Like you now I had great faith in all these holy books. I was a great devotee of Krishna and not a single day, and of course at times not a single hour was spent without praying or chanting Sanskrit hymns or Slokas we say in Sanskrit. I was a queer boy those days. I prayed and cried and the Slokas of the Bhagabatam moved me and tears rolled down my face. I composed so many poems in praise of Krishna.

Now also I have faith. But to be very honest to you, my friend, I am less devoted and doubts have arisen.

Those were precious moments when I was Innocent and believed in God. Now I am a bit changed. I respect you immensely. Notwithstanding all that I wrote on the forum, I take you as a man of the purity of heart. You are closer to self realization. I wish all the best.

[NikolaiI]

Thank you, but I am not that close to self-realization. Still, I don't like stigmas against people talking about spirituality. I love to discuss philosophy and spirituality, if I am in the right mood. Philosophy is not one thing; it cannot be claimed by any one person. It is made up of many different sources, often individuals writing their own ideas and of course following their own rules.

But the subject was Bhagavad-Gita. The Gita talks mostly about five different topics, which are 1)jiva, the living entity, 2)prakriti, material nature, 3)isvara, the supreme controler, 4)time, and 5)karma, or activities.

One of the first things that Krishna says in the Gita is one of the most important. Chapter 2 Verse 12 he says this:

na tv evāhaḿ jātu nāsaḿ
na tvaḿ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param

Translation by His Divine Grace A.C. Swamibhaktivedanta

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

I'll just give the next few verses here, since they are most valuable.


BG 2.12: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

BG 2.13: As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.

BG 2.14: O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

BG 2.15: O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation.

BG 2.16: Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.

BG 2.17: That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

BG 2.18: The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

BG 2.19: Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain.

BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

BG 2.21: O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

BG 2.22: As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

BG 2.23: The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

BG 2.24: This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

BG 2.25: It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

All translations are by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and are from this site http://vedabase.net/bg/2/en

[NikolaiI]

I hope it's not a problem that I'm dividing posts. I'll try not to post too many of my own if no one else joins also.

I want to give some verses now about Krishna, from the beginning of Chapter 9, and also


BG 9.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.

BG 9.2: This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.

BG 9.3: Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of birth and death in this material world.

BG 9.4: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

BG 9.5: And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.

BG 9.6: Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me.

BG 9.7: O son of Kuntī, at the end of the millennium all material manifestations enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency, I create them again.

BG 9.8: The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end.

BG 9.9: O Dhanañjaya, all this work cannot bind Me. I am ever detached from all these material activities, seated as though neutral.

BG 9.10: This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, O son of Kuntī, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.

BG 9.11: Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.

BG 9.12: Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.

BG 9.13: O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.

BG 9.14: Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.

A question that many people have is "who are we?" or "who am I?" The great sage Ramana Maharshi had an idea where one asks the question, "who am I?" and considers it until one is absorbed in it, this was his meditation in the self.

The answer as given in the Gita is that we are souls. This is a word-- soul-- and what does it mean? In our discussion it means a single living entity and a consciousness. The philosophy of the Gita is that we are eternal, we are in this material world for a short stay, and before our material existence and after, we are liberated souls, existing in God. It is said that what intelligence actually is is knowing the difference between matter and spirit.

George Harrison explained something important in a very succinct way. He said that all souls are potentially divine. In the Gita it explains that our natural state is one full of knowledge and bliss. So spiritually, in our liberated and enlightened state, we are experiencing knowledge and bliss.

In the Vedas elsewhere, it says that one attached to sense gratification is born into separateness, into a dream of separateness. In the self is fulfillment greater than this, in the self one can go beyond all boundaries, and wake up from the illusion of separateness.

George Harrison wrote that everyone is searching for Krishna, God, though they might not know it. I have written to this effect and people disagreed. The reason is that Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the source of all pleasure. All pleasure is from Krishna, but Krishna, being the source, is a greater pleasure than any other.

The Bhagavad-Gita is holy because it is spoken by Krishna. Krishna explains everything that there needs to be known about spiritual life-- the most fulfilling occupation of human life. We are meant to learn about liberation and enlightenment. We have a responsibility which is higher than the animals. We are instructed to treat everything with kindness or empathy. The philosophy is one of devotion, which should run from our most inner thoughts to our most external. The devotees of Krishna are generally very pure, and do good works such as distributing prasadam.

Association is very important. It says in Srimad Bhagavatam, "The messages of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are full of potencies, and these potencies can be realized if topics regarding the Supreme Godhead are discussed amongst devotees. This cannot be achieved by the association of mental speculators or academic scholars, for it is realized knowledge."

I once asked His Holiness Danavir Goswami how one could avoid sinful activities and he said that association with saintly persons is the most vital, the most important thing one can do.

And yet, devotees are also instructed to preach, since it is said spreading spiritual knowledge is the highest service one can render. Devotees help feed homeless, but it is not all they do. If you simply feed the homeless, they are helped a little, but if you help a person addicted to sinful activites to grow into someone new, who isn't slave to cravings, then you have helped them learn to live real life.

And yet, I don't mean to be preaching, and if I am I welcome someone else to join and contribute and help steer. I simply wish to learn and discuss about the Gita, as a religious text and as philosophy. It is indeed philosophy, as I said before no one person can claim the rights to philosophy and deny others the right to speak of it...the philosophy of the Gita is one about our own nature-- material or spiritual?-- etc., and especially about spiritual life.

[blazeofglory]

Thanking you for giving me a chance to read it again. I have read it a long time ago as a kid and now I am reading. It is always thrilling to read this great philosophy!

[NikolaiI]

BG 4.1: The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.

BG 4.2: This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.

BG 4.3: That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science.

BG 4.4: Arjuna said: The sun-god Vivasvān is senior by birth to You. How am I to understand that in the beginning You instructed this science to him?

BG 4.5: The Personality of Godhead said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!

BG 4.6: Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all living entities, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.

BG 4.7: Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion — at that time I descend Myself.

BG 4.8: To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.

BG 4.9: One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.

BG 4.10: Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me — and thus they all attained transcendental love for Me.



Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gita traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the kings of all planets. This science is especially meant for the protection of the inhabitants, and therefore the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from the material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, in eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Krsna consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life.

In this millennium, the sun-god is known as Vivasvan, the king of the sun, which is the origin of all planets within the solar system. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated:

yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam
raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah
yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

"Let me worship," Lord Brahma said, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda [Krsna], who is the original person and under whose order the sun, which is the king of all planets, is assuming immense power and heat. The sun represents the eye of the Lord and traverses its orbit in obedience to His order."
The sun is the king of the planets, and the sun-god (at present of the name Vivasvan) rules the sun planet, which is controlling all other planets by supplying heat and light. He is rotating under the order of Krsna, and Lord Krsna originally made Vivasvan His first disciple to understand the science of Bhagavad-gita. The Gita is not, therefore, a speculative treatise for the insignificant mundane scholar but is a standard book of knowledge coming down from time immemorial.

Taken from http://www.asitis.com/4/1.html

Chapter 4 of Bhagavad Gita is called Transcendental Knowledge. What is transcendental knowledge? It's knowledge of Krishna that is liberating. Krishna says that if we have knowledge of the transcendental nature of his appearance, then we do not take birth again, but return to Krishna's eternal abode.

Krishna is explaining this science to Arjuna because Arjuna is a dear friend and devotee. If someone becomes a devotee of the Lord, then the Lord becomes very interested in him.

In Chapter 12 verses 13-20 Krishna describes several different qualities of a devotee who is dear to the Lord.


BG 12.13-14: One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me — such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

BG 12.15: He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.16: My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.17: One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things — such a devotee is very dear to Me.

BG 12.18-19: One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service — such a person is very dear to Me.

BG 12.20: Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

[Madhuri]

Excellent !

Nikolai, thats impressive. Even I want to read the whole book now :)

[NikolaiI]

That's really great to hear, Madhuri! I hope you do read it soon.

I understand that there are lots of different translations of the Gita, and commentators sometimes make up their own philosophy taken from quotes of the Gita, although often they make conclusions which are against the clear indiciations of the Gita itself. The Gita is not an impersonalist doctrine, but very clearly states that Krsna is the Original Person, as he is referred to in the Brahma Samhita.

I really am out of my depth here, I know the Gita but not more than a little of the Brahma Samhita or the Srimad Bhagavatam. Still I will try to give some verses and some of my own understanding, and I welcome any input or correction if someone sees something.


BG 3.31: Those persons who execute their duties according to My injunctions and who follow this teaching faithfully, without envy, become free from the bondage of fruitive actions.

BG 3.32: But those who, out of envy, disregard these teachings and do not follow them are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and ruined in their endeavors for perfection.


BG 6.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no duty.

BG 6.2: What is called renunciation you should know to be the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, O son of Pāṇḍu, for one can never become a yogī unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification.

BG 6.3: For one who is a neophyte in the eightfold yoga system, work is said to be the means; and for one who is already elevated in yoga, cessation of all material activities is said to be the means.

BG 6.4: A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification nor engages in fruitive activities.

BG 6.5: One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.

BG 6.6: For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy.

BG 6.7: For one who has conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached, for he has attained tranquillity. To such a man happiness and distress, heat and cold, honor and dishonor are all the same.

BG 6.8: A person is said to be established in self-realization and is called a yogī [or mystic] when he is fully satisfied by virtue of acquired knowledge and realization. Such a person is situated in transcendence and is self-controlled. He sees everything — whether it be pebbles, stones or gold — as the same.

BG 6.9: A person is considered still further advanced when he regards honest well-wishers, affectionate benefactors, the neutral, mediators, the envious, friends and enemies, the pious and the sinners all with an equal mind.

BG 6.10: A transcendentalist should always engage his body, mind and self in relationship with the Supreme; he should live alone in a secluded place and should always carefully control his mind. He should be free from desires and feelings of possessiveness.


BG 9.26: If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

BG 9.27: Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntī, as an offering to Me.

BG 9.28: In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me.

BG 9.29: I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.

Text 6.2 is important,

yam sannyasam iti prahur
yogam tam viddhi pandava
na hy asannyasta-sankalpo
yogi bhavati kascana

"What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification."

Yoga is linking to the Supreme, or it is the path to the Supreme. If we do something for something or someone, then we become closer to that person or thing. So as we do anything for Krishna, while we are acting we are on the path to Krishna.

Our natural position then is service to Krishna, which is devotion. Devotional yoga is the practice and worship of self-realization. Our natural position is not in fact, simply trying to satisfy our never ending sense desires. Our natural position is to serve the Supreme. The highest state of realization is love of God. Loving God is not separate from loving His creation, because the creation is made up of fragmented spiritual sparks, which together make up the Whole. Our natural position is part of the Supreme Soul, just like particles in an ocean are part of the ocean. So, as Krsna says in the Gita, we should serve Him in everything we do-- we should do it all for Him, and who we should serve is the servant of the servant of God.

Text Chapter 8 Verse 8

abhyasa-yoga-yuktena
cetasa nanya-gamina
paramam purusam divyam
yati parthanucintayan

"He who meditates on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Partha [Arjuna], is sure to reach Me."

Ch. 9 Verse 4

satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca dridha-vratah
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

[NikolaiI]

Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exmplary acts, all the world pursures.

[mazHur]

many years a friend of mine brought me a copy of Bhagvat Geeta from Delhi,,,I tried to read it but the philosophy contained therein was rather too much for my understanding so i left reading it for some other time.
Unfortunately one of my friends borrowed it and won't return it ,,,

The Geeta begins with the table of 9 ,,,ofcourse this number is full of mysteries!

I have skimmed through some of the verses quoted here and they are very nice,,,

The name Krishna in terms of Geeta seems to stand for the Supreme Being, I guess.

[RG57]

I believe to gain knowledge is valuable, I shall to get myself a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. Strangely I was thinking about this the other day!

[NikolaiI]

I believe to gain knowledge is valuable, I shall to get myself a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. Strangely I was thinking about this the other day!

It's the best investment you'll ever make. :)

I studied philosophy a lot until I came across the Gita and when I had I knew I had found the best. I hope you'll get Swami Prabhupada's translation titled Bhagavad-Gita As It Is because he explains it as it really is.

[blazeofglory]

In fact the Gita is a book of mysteries. Of course the philosophies in the Gita are hard to understand. There are so many interpretations of the Gita.

I oftentimes read it. I started reading the Gita when I was a small kid. Then I read it out of and for devotion and now out of curiosity and for knowledge I read.

[RG57]

I will certainly look around, till then I will see if the library has a copy. From the excerpts I seen on this thread I am already interested.

[RG57]

In fact the Gita is a book of mysteries. Of course the philosophies in the Gita are hard to understand. There are so many interpretations of the Gita.

I oftentimes read it. I started reading the Gita when I was a small kid. Then I read it out of and for devotion and now out of curiosity and for knowledge I read.

Yes, they may be hard to understand at times, but so are a great many religious texts, as a Christian I have not found the Bible that easy to understand in areas.

[blazeofglory]

You can find the Gita with commentaries. As Nikolai has recommended Prabhupad's translation, you can better start with that.

There is no doubt that the Gita is one of the great ancient treasures and of course we can not find any book to match the depth and profundity one comes across in the book.

The whole book is full of wisdom, and a fountainhead of spirituality.

The Bhagbad Gita is the sum and substance of the Upanishads and the Vedas. The vedas I think is the most sophisticated ancient book and philosophically very rich.

I often want to go lost in the philosophies and spirituality of these great ancient treasures.

[RG57]

When I get a copy and have had the time to digest some of it i will let you have some of my thoughts on the writings.

Thanks for your advice.

[Logos]

I really don't know how "good" it is but there is a translation from 1900 on the site here :) http://www.online-literature.com/anonymous/bhagavad-gita/

--

[RG57]

Thanks Logos, I've just had a quick look. I don't know the quality of the translation, but I shall take longer read late, this will suffice until I get a paper copy.

[NikolaiI]

I really don't know how "good" it is but there is a translation from 1900 on the site here :) http://www.online-literature.com/anonymous/bhagavad-gita/

--

I know! I remembered that there was and I read the first chapter yester-day, it was quite interesting. I can't say if the whole thing is really good or bad just from that... there are many advantages of reading Prabhupada's translation, and I would recommend to read that one first. For instance Arjuna calls Krishna by different names in this translation- like Janardana and Madhusudana (the killer of the demon Madhu)- and Prabhupada explains what all these mean, and sometimes explains why Arjuna might be using one name or another. He gives the Sanskrit as well as word-for-word equivalents, an english translation and purports. He's a very good writer, very deep yet also accessible. Most important is that he is a devotee of Krishna and not just a scholar or philosopher. I can honestly say that his philosophy is the highest one of any I've seen.

[RG57]

I found a PDF copy and downloaded it to get a start, but I will be going to the library tomorrow to see if they have the translation you reccomend. There is always Amazon later.

My wife remindeed me that we actually had a copy of the gita a few years back when she was studying yogic philosophy. just goes to show some books should be stored just in case they are required later, sadly we got rid of it just before moving to a new house (in the year 2000!).

[NikolaiI]

http://www.bhagavad-gita.us looks like it has the whole thing online for free. The copy of Bhagavad Gita I own is a hardback copy of Prabhupada's translation. It's got a very full index where you can look up words and verses. It's nice to have a paper-hard back copy to read, don't have to use electicity :) and also there's the wonderful index and there's also great illustrations.

[RG57]

NikolaiI, thanks for the link it looks okay. I have added it to my favourites list for quick use. I got a copy from the library yesterday - Hindu Scriptures - Edited by Dr Nicol MacNicol and forwarded by Rabindranath Tagore - 1959.

I will cross referance the site with book and hopefully get back to you after a few days. Thanks for your help.

[NikolaiI]

I was looking at a few different things online when I came to this letter written by Srila Prabhupada, long before he ever came to America. I'm posting it here because it summarizes the Gita in a profound and inspirational way. Prabhupada is beloved by millions, and his words are so important, even or especially today, when we seem to be so divided.

1947: July 13

Cawnpore

Raja Mohendra Pratap
World Federation
Prem MohaVidyalaya
P.O. Brindaban.

Dear Raja Sahib,

In continuation of my last post card, I beg to inform you that I have finished the reading of your book Religion of Love. In my opinion the whole thesis is based on the philosophy of pantheism and the approach is made by the services of mankind. Religion of love is the true religious idea but if the approach is made through the service of mankind only, then the process is made imperfect, partial and unscientific.

As you say the waves of the creations are the different aspects, why a particular type of waves namely the mankind should be partially selected and offered services and why other types of waves such as the beasts or birds, the plants and the stone shall not be offered a similar type of services? In that case how can you say that the worship of a stone is sinful while a man who is more than a stone shall be considered as the object of love? These are some of the questions that arise out of a critical study of your book.

If you so desire I can enter into discussions about it and my opinion is that your approach is partial and unscientific. There is no hesitation to accept the principle of the Religion of Love because the Absolute Truth is, as we have known, Godhead Who is sat, cit and ananda. Without ananda there cannot be any love that is an accepted fact. Your delineation of society, friendship and love among the human beings is based on this ananda portion only but you have avoided the other portions of eternity and cognition of God the Whole Soul. Thus the approach is partial and unscientific.

The true religion of love is perfectly inculcated in the Bhagavad-gita. When we speak of love there must be the object of love and the lover too. Here in this world we find that the object of love and the lover both are the cheater and the cheated in their reciprocal dealings. That is our experience. But the ultimate end being one Whole Soul, the dual existence of the object of lover and the loved loses identity. In that case the eternity and cognizibility of the loved and lover vanish at once. In this way there arises many questions which may be put forward to you for further discussions to adjust your ideas of religion.

Besides you have not quoted any authority for all your statements. So it is more or less dogmatic. If different men put different dogmatic views about religion and its essentials who is to be accepted and who is not be? Therefore the approach shall be and must be authoritative, scientific and universal. Your delineations do not conform to all these necessary things. That is my main contention.

If you have time to discuss on it, I shall be glad to substantiate my contentions as far as possible. My basis of arguments will be Bhagavad-gita which is the most authoritative, scientific and universal. To summarise the conclusions of Bhagavad-gita it may be said that,

1) God is one and everything is in Him and He is in everything.

2) To render transcendental service unto God is to serve everything that be, just like to water the root of the tree is to water the different branches and numerous leaves of the tree or to supply food to the stomach is to vitalize all the senses and the sense organs of the body.

3) The parts are automatically served when the Whole is served but when the parts are served the whole may not be served or not served at all.

4) The parts and the Whole being eternally related, it is the eternal duty of the parts to render service unto the Whole.

5) A recipient of the services of the parts, God’s sat-cit-ananda vigraha i.e. the all-attractive Cognizant and all-blissful Personality eternal. He can reveal Himself by His own potency without any help of the external potency called maya in order to be cognizable by the limited potency of the parts and as such He is not only the greatest of all but he is the smallest of all. That is His prerogative.

6) He is better realized when He by His causeless mercy agrees to descend in this mortal world but he He is never realised by the partial speculations of the empiric philosophers however systematic and long-termed it may be.

7) Sri Krishna is the Personality of Godhead and is the Summum Bonum Cause of all Causes proved by fact and figures in the statement of Bhagavad-gita, but He reserves the right of not being exposed to the sensual speculations of the empiric philosophers.

8) One should therefore surrender unto Him if one wants to know Him as He is and that is the real process to approach the Infinite by the infinitesimals.

9) Sri Krishna is easily available by the religion of love i.e. by love and service as conceived by the damsels of Vraja who had practically no education whatsoever and much less any claim for high class birth right.

10) The highest service that can be rendered to the mankind is, therefore, to preach the philosophy and religion of Bhagavad-gita for all the times, all the places and all the people.

I hope you may agree with me and thus make a combined effort in this direction for the benefit of the mankind.

Yours sincerely,
Abhay Charan De

[RG57]

I read the above very carefully and found that there was a lot that was understandable.
Point one that Abhay Charan De bought up in his summary is something that I have always believed. Also points three and four are things that I have believed throughout my life.

I am hoping to have made some headway into the copy I have by the end of the week. Strange question I know and has probably been asked many times before but is this (the teaching of the Gita, compatible with Christianity?

[NikolaiI]

Those are important points. Einstein said something similar to this philosophy; "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

But in reply to your question, my answer would be yes. Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God. This is also the goal of this philosophy. Only with the Gita it is very scientific, it is actually called the science of self-realization, or the science of God-realization. The goal is to love God, and what this means is that you serve Him. The main injunction of Bhagavad-Gita is to dedicate all your works for the benefit of the Lord. The best process for spiritual advancement is to always meditate upon the Lord, to chant His glories, sing His praises, read about Him, and preach about Him. This is for me an expansion of Christ's commandment to love God, it's scientific.

[RG57]

Thank you NikolaiI, I will be reading the copy I have and post some of my feelings hopefully by the end of this week. It make take time as I am a slowish reader, whenever I read I like to take in every word.

[NikolaiI]

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend" BG 18.65

"To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance" (Bhagavad-gita 10.11).

"To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 10.10).

"Abandon all varieties of mundane religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." (Bhagavad-gita 18:66).

O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible. BG 9.13

Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion. BG 9.14

[NikolaiI]

In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time.
BG 4.38

[Mr. Vandemar]

I am reading the Gita right now.

Is it true that Gandhi said that the most important verses were found in the second chapter (I think 55-72 or something)?

I've read the first three chapters, and I am loving it so far.

It, like Gandhi said, is as useful to me (a Catholic) as is the Sermon on the Mount.

[NikolaiI]

I was going to ask what translation you are reading, but if you are loving it then I guess it's a good one.

I'm not sure if Gandhi said that or not, but the second chapter is considered like a summary of the topics of the whole Gita. I've heard it said by devotees that the middle six chapters (7-12) are the most important part. Well, the rest is important too, but those chapters are the richest or deepest.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Translated by Eknath Easwaran

[Madhuri]

Here is a link that sometimes I refer to:

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-01.html

[blazeofglory]

Reading the Bhagabat Gita without too much interpretation is illuminating.

There are so many interpretations of the Bhagbat Gita. I choose the Sanskrit text.

[Mr. Vandemar]

I cannot read Sanskrit.

Should I learn? Do you think it is worth it?

[NikolaiI]

I cannot read Sanskrit.

Should I learn? Do you think it is worth it?

I think you should study everything you can about it. I always recommend Srila Prabhupada's translation in Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Prabhupada founded, I believe, 108 Krishna temples in his lifetime, as well as what this quote from wikipedia says.


It is believed that Prabhupada's most significant contribution, are his books.[53][54][55] Within the final twenty years of his life Prabhupada translated over sixty volumes of classic Vedic scriptures (such as the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam) into the English language.[56] For their authority, depth, and clarity, his books have won praise from professors at colleges and universities like Harvard, Oxford, Cornell, Columbia, Syracuse, Oberlin, and Edinburgh,[57] and his Bhagavad-Gītā As It Is was published by Macmillan Publishers, in 1968 and unabridged edition in 1972,[58][59][60] and is now available in over sixty languages around the world and some other books by Prabhupada are available in over eighty different languages.[24][46]

I have been studying Prabhupada's books for several months now. Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita are considered the two most important books there are, sufficient in themselves for realization of God-consciousness. Srimad Bhagavatam, because it is the story of the Fortunate One, the story about Krishna, and Bhagavad Gita because it is the direct words of the Lord Himself.

Anyway, Srila Prabhupada's books are great because they are scholarly, and they are also written by a bonafide spiritual master, a Vaisnava saint, in the line of disciplic succession going back to such as Caitanya, Madhva, Narada, and even Brahma..
(http://pavanspress.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/letter-to-the-prabhus/)


As the representative of Lord Brahma, Narada, Madhva, Mahaprabhu and of his own beloved guru maharaja, Shrila Prabhupada spread the moon-like rays of Lord Chaitanya’s sankirtan movement far beyond the borders of India. Shrila Prabhupada loved to sing Krishna’s name everywhere, broadcasting far and wide the glories of Krishna, in the mood of Sage Narada or Mahaprabhu. He is the modern patita-pavana, the deliverer of fallen souls through the power of the holy name. He came here for one purpose only, to take us back to home, back to Godhead through the transcendental potency of Krishna’s name. Therefore every deed of his life on Earth stands as the perfect representation of Sage Narada’s (lit. nara- “mankind”; da-“deliverer”). Shrila Prabhupada was a modern savior of man who knew that “There is no other way, no other way, no other way, but hari-nama in Kali-yuga.” (Naradiya Purana)

So I would recommend you find a Krishna temple if you are able, for association with saintly devotees can give one great progress very quickly. Hearing and discussing are more important than studying, although studying is very important.

Prabhupada describes in a puport to Caitanya Caritamrta, (http://www.harekrsna.com/practice/bhakti/perfection.htm)


"As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.5.23), there are nine kinds of devotional service: hearing (sravanam), chanting (kirtanam), remembering (visnoh smaranam), serving (pada-sevanam), worship of the Deity (arcanam), praying (vandanam), carrying out orders (dasyam), serving Him as a friend (sakhyam) and sacrificing everything for the Lord (atma-nivedanam). Although each process appears distinct, when one is situated on the absolute platform he can see that they are identical. For instance, hearing is as good as chanting, and remembering is as good as chanting or hearing. Similarly, engaging in Deity worship is as good as chanting, hearing or remembering. The devotee is expected to accept all nine processes of devotional service, but even if only one process is properly executed, he can still attain the highest position (paramahamsa) and go back home, back to Godhead.

Also in a Krishna temple you should be able to find daily classes on Bhagavad-Gita.

And just a verse from the Gita, Chapter 2 verse 46

yavan artha udapane
sarvatah samplutodake
tavan sarvesu vedesu
brahmanasya vijanatah

All purposes that are served by the small pond can at once be served by the great reservoirs of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them.

[NikolaiI]

Chapter 6, Verse 11-12.
To practice yoga, one should go to a secluded place and should lay kusa-grass on the ground and then cover it with a deerskin and a soft cloth. The seat should neither be too high nor too low and should be situated in a sacred place. The yogi should then sit on it very firmly and should practice yoga by controlling the mind and the senses, purifying the heart and fixing the mind on one point.

[NikolaiI]

Chapter 4, Text 1
sri-bhagavan uvaca
imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit

Translation
The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku.

PURPORT (HDG Srila Prabhupada http://www.asitis.com/4/1.html)

Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gita traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the kings of all planets. This science is especially meant for the protection of the inhabitants, and therefore the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from the material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, in eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Krsna consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life.

In this millennium, the sun-god is known as Vivasvan, the king of the sun, which is the origin of all planets within the solar system. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated:

yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam
raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah
yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

"Let me worship," Lord Brahma said, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda [Krsna], who is the original person and under whose order the sun, which is the king of all planets, is assuming immense power and heat. The sun represents the eye of the Lord and traverses its orbit in obedience to His order."
The sun is the king of the planets, and the sun-god (at present of the name Vivasvan) rules the sun planet, which is controlling all other planets by supplying heat and light. He is rotating under the order of Krsna, and Lord Krsna originally made Vivasvan His first disciple to understand the science of Bhagavad-gita. The Gita is not, therefore, a speculative treatise for the insignificant mundane scholar but is a standard book of knowledge coming down from time immemorial.

[mazHur]

where do you get deer skin from?? Won't the WWF folks dislike the idea??

Is it not possible to do the yoga less expensively than suggested? Atleast I dont have a dear skin nor can afford to buy one!

[NikolaiI]

Chapter 6, Verse 5.
A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.

Chapter 6, Verse 6.
For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy.

Chapter 6, Verse 4.
A person is said to be have attained to yoga when, having renounced all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification nor engages in fruitive activities.

Chapter 6, Verse 2.
What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification.

Chapter 6, Verse 3.
For one who is a neophyte in the eightfold yoga system, work is said to be the means; and for one who has already attained to yoga, cessation of all material activities is said to be the means.

Chapter 6, Verse 1.
The Blessed Lord said: One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic: not he who lights no fire and performs no work.

[mazHur]

I really fail to understand the message of Geeta

if all were to become mystics and renounce this world then who, yes who will work?? There would have been no internet, no planes, no nuclear weapons , no food science, no fashion, no architechture if all or most of people followed the path suggested by Geeta.

We are born to live and struggle in this world without harming others.

[NikolaiI]

I really fail to understand the message of Geeta

if all were to become mystics and renounce this world then who, yes who will work?? There would have been no internet, no planes, no nuclear weapons , no food science, no fashion, no architechture if all or most of people followed the path suggested by Geeta.

We are born to live and struggle in this world without harming others.

I am sorry you missed the point, but thank you for trying anyway.

If you would be so humble as to accept you may have misunderstood, I would explain for you.

Work is actually a major component to the philosohpy of the Gita, and it is never said you should not work. This is a major part of it, and you are actually supposed to work in Krishna consciousness. I will explain more later.

[NikolaiI]

All purports and translations are taken from Bhagavad-Gita As It Is (http://vedabase.net/bg/), by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.


Chapter 5, Verses 1-2

Arjuna said: O Kṛṣṇa, first of all You ask me to renounce work, and then again You recommend work with devotion. Now will You kindly tell me definitely which of the two is more beneficial?

The Personality of Godhead replied: The renunciation of work and work in devotion are both good for liberation. But, of the two, work in devotional service is better than renunciation of work.

PURPORT (to verse 2)

Fruitive activities (seeking sense gratification) are cause for material bondage. As long as one is engaged in activities aimed at improving the standard of bodily comfort, one is sure to transmigrate to different types of bodies, thereby continuing material bondage perpetually. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (5.5.4-6) confirms this as follows:

nūnaḿ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśa-da āsa dehaḥ
parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto
yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam
yāvat kriyās tāvad idaḿ mano vai
karmātmakaḿ yena śarīra-bandhaḥ
evaḿ manaḥ karma-vaśaḿ prayuńkte
avidyayātmany upadhīyamāne
prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve
na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat

"People are mad after sense gratification, and they do not know that this present body, which is full of miseries, is a result of one's fruitive activities in the past. Although this body is temporary, it is always giving one trouble in many ways. Therefore, to act for sense gratification is not good. One is considered to be a failure in life as long as he makes no inquiry about his real identity. As long as he does not know his real identity, he has to work for fruitive results for sense gratification, and as long as one is engrossed in the consciousness of sense gratification one has to transmigrate from one body to another. Although the mind may be engrossed in fruitive activities and influenced by ignorance, one must develop a love for devotional service to Vāsudeva. Only then can one have the opportunity to get out of the bondage of material existence."

Therefore, jñāna (or knowledge that one is not this material body but spirit soul) is not sufficient for liberation. One has to act in the status of spirit soul, otherwise there is no escape from material bondage. Action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not, however, action on the fruitive platform. Activities performed in full knowledge strengthen one's advancement in real knowledge. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, mere renunciation of fruitive activities does not actually purify the heart of a conditioned soul. As long as the heart is not purified, one has to work on the fruitive platform. But action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness automatically helps one escape the result of fruitive action so that one need not descend to the material platform. Therefore action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is always superior to renunciation, which always entails a risk of falling. Renunciation without Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete, as is confirmed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.258):

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ
mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
vairāgyaḿ phalgu kathyate

"When persons eager to achieve liberation renounce things related to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, thinking them to be material, their renunciation is called incomplete." Renunciation is complete when it is in the knowledge that everything in existence belongs to the Lord and that no one should claim proprietorship over anything. One should understand that, factually, nothing belongs to anyone. Then where is the question of renunciation? One who knows that everything is Kṛṣṇa's property is always situated in renunciation. Since everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, everything should be employed in the service of Kṛṣṇa. This perfect form of action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is far better than any amount of artificial renunciation by a sannyāsī of the Māyāvādī school.

[mazHur]

Like all religious literature the Geeta also gives almost similar (or should I say the same) good message. However, some points are matters of controversy, such as 'reincarnation'. No one can claim to prove it.

Secondly, too much over-emphasis on 'renunciation' towards the diety or Krishna or by whatever name you call the Supreme being doesn't seem to going in the making of a 'complete person' and may be harmful for general public if they all opted for that. Material world is made for the use and benefit of men and senses are given them to enjoy those. There ought to be balance in matters of divine and worldly duties or works. It is only then a person becomes a true man!

[NikolaiI]

Like all religious literature the Geeta also gives almost similar (or should I say the same) good message. However, some points are matters of controversy, such as 'reincarnation'. No one can claim to prove it.

Secondly, too much over-emphasis on 'renunciation' towards the diety or Krishna or by whatever name you call the Supreme being doesn't seem to going in the making of a 'complete person' and may be harmful for general public if they all opted for that. Material world is made for the use and benefit of men and senses are given them to enjoy those. There ought to be balance in matters of divine and worldly duties or works. It is only then a person becomes a true man!

I don't know what I can say to you. It is not about renuncation but about devotion. The highest state is love of God. But it is a very long path. If you are interested in the Bhagavad-Gita, you should buy a copy since it's probably better to read in hard-back than on the internet.

If you are not interested in Bhagavad-Gita then please do not post here. Please do not post here if you wish to say that devotion to God will not make someone whole.

[mazHur]

I do not mean what you think.
I do believe in 'devotion' and already said the Geeta teaches no less than other holy books. I am sorry if you are offended by my inquisitiveness and observations....but please note I am from ex-India ---where Geeta was once the rule! I have read it as well as comparative religions (hard copies),,,,just to apprise you,,,,about 20 years back!!

[blazeofglory]

I do not mean what you think.
I do believe in 'devotion' and already said the Geeta teaches no less than other holy books. I am sorry if you are offended by my inquisitiveness and observations....but please note I am from ex-India ---where Geeta was once the rule! I have read it as well as comparative religions (hard copies),,,,just to apprise you,,,,about 20 years back!!

MaZHur, if you read the book with no pre-thinking you will find it as an ocean of knowledge.

[mazHur]

No doubt about Geeta being a great book.

[NickAdams]

I purchased the Graham M. Schwieg translation last year when I worked at the Deparment of Education. There was a small store ran by an Indian man. I spoke to his daughter quite often and when I started to learn Sanskrit, I didn't get very far, I would ask her to evaluate my pronounciation. She began to lend me the small books by His Divine Grace, out of respect for the thread, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. She suggested I read the Gita and it has been on my shelf since I purchased it, but I will begin it in February, so expect many questions. :)

This is from my translation:

Dhritarashtra said:

On the field of dharma,
on the field of Kuru,
assembled together
desiring to fight,
Were my armies
and indeed those of the sons of Pandu-
how did they act, O Sanjaya?

[NikolaiI]

A Harvard graduate... :)


Graham M. Schweig is an author, scholar, and yogi who teaches about the universal language of the heart. Graham claims that the most painful form of impoverishment in this world is hunger of the heart, found everywhere in both afluent and poor societies. Every religious and spiritual tradition, if probed deeply, Graham believes, reveals secrets of divine love that can offer the world nourishishment for the heart. Graham has devoted his personal and professional life to sharing with others his discoveries of these divine gifts for humanity.

Dr. Graham M. Schweig, who received his doctorate degree from Harvard University, is a scholar of Comparative Religion whose specialization is the philosophy of yoga and the spiritual traditions of India. He is a specialist in love mysticism, concentrating on religions of the heart, especially the Bhakti Yoga traditions of India. Graham's ultimate interest is to find religious truths from within Indic traditions that contribute powerful symbols that speak beyond their religious boundaries, moving religion toward world peace. 
He is a long-time practitioner of meditational and devotional yoga under the guidance of traditional teachers since 1967.

http://www.grahamschweig.com/

[NickAdams]

What of The Mahabharata?

[blp]

Please do not post here if you wish to say that devotion to God will not make someone whole.

Take it easy, Nikolai. This forum's supposed to allow for a diversity of opinion.

[blazeofglory]

Take it easy, Nikolai. This forum's supposed to allow for a diversity of opinion.

Yes exactly, Nikolai you must take it easy and do not get upset. We do not know we are right or wrong when it comes to questioning some of the really important issues. Let us be liberal, open and respect others' views.

I think I am not offensive.

[blp]

I think I am not offensive.

I agree. Thank you.

[Madhuri]

What of The Mahabharata?

Mahabharat, is an epic poem, of about 74000 verses, in Sanskrit. It is a story of the Kauravas and Pandavas. The Bhagvad Geeta (Song of the God) is a part of Mahabharat, and is a conversation between Lord Krishna and Arjun, on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. These two ar every important, ancient Hindu scriptures.

[NikolaiI]

I do not mean what you think.
I do believe in 'devotion' and already said the Geeta teaches no less than other holy books. I am sorry if you are offended by my inquisitiveness and observations....but please note I am from ex-India ---where Geeta was once the rule! I have read it as well as comparative religions (hard copies),,,,just to apprise you,,,,about 20 years back!!

I was not offended, or if I was it was because of something else... anyway I do apologize as well.. all is forgiven.

[NickAdams]

Mahabharat, is an epic poem, of about 74000 verses, in Sanskrit. It is a story of the Kauravas and Pandavas. The Bhagvad Geeta (Song of the God) is a part of Mahabharat, and is a conversation between Lord Krishna and Arjun, on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. These two ar every important, ancient Hindu scriptures.

Thanks, but I wanted to know of its importance to the Hindu religion. I've been having a hard time trying to find an unabridged English translation.

[NikolaiI]

Thanks, but I wanted to know of its importance to the Hindu religion. I've been having a hard time trying to find an unabridged English translation.

There is a translation, I think which is unabridged, at the temple here in Kansas City. I do mean to read the whole Mahabharat, though I haven't yet; but I was reading the first couple of chapters and it seemed like a good translation. The next time I'm there I'll find the author's name, because I couldn't remember it off-hand. The book had the whole Mahabharat in one volume, I think, told in narration.

[NikolaiI]

Nick, the book we have at our temple is about 900 pages, it is the Mahabharata retold by Krishna Dharma. I am not sure how that works exactly, I presume the original sanskrit is in verse form like the Gita, but it reads like a narrative with paragraphs. I think it's very good, having read the first 3 chapters. So far I just got to the part where Pandu died from his curse. Pandu had two wives, Madri and Kunti... Queen Kunti is also in the Srimad Bhagavatam, she is the mother of Arjuna, if I am not mistaken. This is why Krishna refers to Arjuna as the son of Kunti and the son of Pandu. If you search for "Mahabharata Krishna Dharma" you can find it on Google (Amazon pops up first).

[NikolaiI]

http://vedabase.net/bg/

This is the best site in my opinion for finding or reading Gita verses. There are other sites with Prahbupada's translation and purports, but this one gives them easily navigable; you can click on a chapter and have all the verses on one screen, I haven't found another site which has this.

[Madhuri]

Like all religious literature the Geeta also gives almost similar (or should I say the same) good message. However, some points are matters of controversy, such as 'reincarnation'. No one can claim to prove it.

Secondly, too much over-emphasis on 'renunciation' towards the diety or Krishna or by whatever name you call the Supreme being doesn't seem to going in the making of a 'complete person' and may be harmful for general public if they all opted for that. Material world is made for the use and benefit of men and senses are given them to enjoy those. There ought to be balance in matters of divine and worldly duties or works. It is only then a person becomes a true man!


The Geeta is not the only religious scripture in Hinduism. It is a part of the Dharma Shastra. There are several scriptures that complete Hinduism; there in no one book in this religion.

You have to read all other scriptures, like the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads that talk about everything, including the material aspect of life.

Humans have senses and the material world is for them to enjoy. You can read Kamasutra, for example, to enjoy one aspect of the material world (you kno wwhat I mean). It is a part of Ayurveda (science of life), a Veda.

You must read everything, before coming to the conclusion that there is no balance.

[NikolaiI]

I disagree, Madhuri.. there is more to life than enjoying the senses. In fact the idea that we should try to be Lord is one that causes a lot of suffering. We try to be the lord of the material world, but we end up only becoming bound by it more and more. We are part of the marginal energy of the Lord, etc., and we can only be completely fulfilled if we regain our spiritual consciousness.

Srimad Bhagavatam states, "Life's desires should never be directed toward sense gratification. One should desire only a healthy life, or self-preservation, since a human being is meant for inquiry about the Absolute Truth. Nothing else should be the goal of one's works." SB 1.2.10

[mazHur]

The Geeta is not the only religious scripture in Hinduism. It is a part of the Dharma Shastra. There are several scriptures that complete Hinduism; there in no one book in this religion.

You have to read all other scriptures, like the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads that talk about everything, including the material aspect of life.

Humans have senses and the material world is for them to enjoy. You can read Kamasutra, for example, to enjoy one aspect of the material world (you kno wwhat I mean). It is a part of Ayurveda (science of life), a Veda.

You must read everything, before coming to the conclusion that there is no balance.

Yes, I have read the Kok Shaster,,the illustrated one. I liked the Asanas! lovely! lol
There is nothing special there that we don't practice even in these times! lol

Who has the time and energy to read so many books not only of Hinduism but also other hundreds of religions and sects. I think moderation in religious beliefs should be the basic aim of a follower.
true, this world is made for the benefit of senses but sometimes as you grow up in age you like to find some food for the soul as well! Spiritual world is different and not for every body to traverse....especially without a 'guide'. In any case there ought to be a balance between the material and spiritual worlds.

[NikolaiI]

Message of Gita is Bhakti-yoga, it is the highest path of spiritual realization. There are many different yogas, including hatha yoga (physical), jnana-yoga (cultivation of knowledge). Bhakti-yoga, devotional yoga, means linking with the Supreme. The message of Gita is kind of like, "I love you" (God saying), "please come home."

[NikolaiI]

Some verses about the soul:

BG 2.12: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

BG 2.13: As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.

BG 2.14: O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

BG 2.15: O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation.

BG 2.16: Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.

BG 2.17: That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

BG 2.23: The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

BG 2.24: This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

BG 2.25: It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

BG 2.27: One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

BG 2.29: Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all.

BG 9.2: This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.

BG 7.7: O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.

BG 10.41: Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

BG 16.1-3: Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor — these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.

And these four verses are considered by some to be the most important.

BG 10.8: I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
BG 10.9: The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me.
BG 10.10: To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.
BG 10.11: To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.

[NikolaiI]

BG 18.65: Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

BG 18.68: For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

BG 18.69: There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.

For the Sanskrit verses or for Prahbupada's purports to the verses, you can find either at vedabase.net/bg

[NikolaiI]

Just some thoughts?

[Nemo Neem]

The work reminds me of a soul telling the body what to do.

[blazeofglory]

This is one of the ancient books surviving to this day and I claim no book, ancient or modern ever written embrace so many things as the Mahabharata. And since the Bhagabata Gita has been extracted from this great epic this is really a wonderful book that dazzles the rest in the world. If you do not believe read the Mahabharata in translation

[blazeofglory]

The work reminds me of a soul telling the body what to do.

You are absolutely right and you will be all the more right if you read the book

[Radha Krsna]

http://www.shaman-tantra.com/images/Radha&Krsna.jpg
हरे कृष्ण हरे कृष्ण कृष्ण कृष्ण हरे हरे
हरे राम हरे राम राम राम हरे हरे

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

(O Tuhan, O Tenaga Sakti Tuhan semoga hamba selalu disibukkan dalam kebhaktian kepada Anda)

[blazeofglory]

A very beautiful picture of Lord Krishna. Krishna is and has always been my favorite and I idolize him and I am tireless to say things in praise of him. He is really a great hero

[Radha Krsna]

A very beautiful picture of Lord Krishna. Krishna is and has always been my favorite and I idolize him and I am tireless to say things in praise of him. He is really a great hero


Yes, me too.

[NikolaiI]

A very beautiful picture of Lord Krishna. Krishna is and has always been my favorite and I idolize him and I am tireless to say things in praise of him. He is really a great hero

:)

One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna. (BG 4.9)

Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend. BG (18.65)

(man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaishyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo ’si me)

[blazeofglory]

I am a professional and it is the Mahabharata that always blazes my path.

[Radha Krsna]

NA40nHG13lQ

[NikolaiI]

Oh, I couldn't get your link, Radha Krishna.

[Radha Krsna]

Oh, I couldn't get your link, Radha Krishna.

I'm sorry, that is not link, I try to upload video but unable.

[Freetobeme97526]

Hi,
I really want to do a term paper for my World Lit class on this piece of Literature. I am having a hard time narrowing a topic for a 6 page research paper. I would really appreciate it if you guys would help give me some ideas! Thank you

[NikolaiI]

Well, have you studied it before, and in what setting?

[Freetobeme97526]

This is my first time with Workd lit in any form. I was considering the comparison of wisdom to modern day wisdom.

[NikolaiI]

I don't understand the term Workd lit.

I've been studying Bhagavad-Gita for two or three years now, and I'd be happy to discuss with you about it.

[Freetobeme97526]

Hi NikolaiI,
Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. The term was supposed to be World Literature and this is all new to me. I find it to be an exciting journey to embark on even if it is for a course. I would like to ask you some of your own insights as I was reading som of your later posts.
I understand that Ghandi used the Gita to identify with his own philosophy. I would like to understand how Gandhi, who esckewed violence, made specific use of the Gita. Especially if the Gita refrains from all forms of violence.

Next: How does the Gita justify war, human rights, universal moral laws, amd does national honor justify violence? Thank you so much for your thoughts.

[NikolaiI]

Well, Gandhi was a Vaishnava. Vaishnava means devotee of Vishnu, or Krishna.

Bhagavad-Gita teaches the science of self-realization, which is a practical system of purifying and elevating the consciousness. It's more than just philosophy - Gandhi went to prayer meetings almost every day. In fact he was on his way to a prayer meeting when he was killed. Walking, he was accosted and then shot three times in the chest. Right before he died, he cried, "He Rama!" - "He" is similar or equivalent to the English "hey," and Rama is a name of God. Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita that one who remembers God without deviation at the time of death attains Him.

Before I read your post I was wanting to post the following verses from the Gita, which are pretty good in understanding part of its philosophy.


In the stage of perfection called trance, or samādhi, one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This perfection is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness, realized through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.

Now in answer to your questions:

1) War - unjustified generally. Why? Because of the consciousness of those engaged. The different countries are under so many illusions, and they are fighting simply to gain money, power, territory, etc. Everything belongs to the Supreme Lord, and if we do not use everything for Krishna, then we are thieves.

"Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntī, as an offering to Me."

- Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 9, Text 27

2) Human rights -

Krishna explains the purpose of life, which is self-realization. There are different processes, or yoga systems, for self-realization, the highest of which is devotion to Krishna, or bhakti-yoga. The others are Jnana yoga, the pursuit of knowledge, or karma-yoga, the path of work.

As far as human rights goes, the process seems to be, focus on one's own activities - and in that regard, the morality is of the highest standard. We are supposed to accept only whatever is necessary for our maintenance, and not try to accumulate anything more.

The final conclusion of Bhagavad-Gita, the highest goal and purpose of human life, is summarized in a famous verse, Ch. 18, Text 65:

Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

And then, the highest service for others is as follows:

BG 18.68: For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

BG 18.69: There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.

Krishna says that the highest goal is devotion and love of God, and that there is no one more dear to Him than one who preaches this bhakti-yoga.

3) universal moral laws -

I am running out of time actually; there is a great wealth of moral teaching as well as spiritual teaching in the Bhagavad-Gita, but I am afraid I can't write more of them out for you.

4) national honor and violence -

National honor; I assume you may be referring to the following verses,

BG 2.34: People will always speak of your infamy, and for a respectable person, dishonor is worse than death.

BG 2.35: The great generals who have highly esteemed your name and fame will think that you have left the battlefield out of fear only, and thus they will consider you insignificant.

BG 2.36: Your enemies will describe you in many unkind words and scorn your ability. What could be more painful for you?

Which are used when Krishna is giving reasons for Arjuna not to quit the battlefield.

Well - no, national honor doesn't justify it. The real reason Arjuna was instructed to fight, and not to abdicate his position (which was that of a ksatriya, or warrior) was that the other side in the battle were criminal. If they came into power, religion would be lost, morality would be lost, and there would be so much suffering. The reason you can't simplify it to saying national honor justifies war is because there's not much national honor these days. No nation is following dharma - there are slaugterhouses maintined by the governments of every nation. Every living being within the nation deserves protection - not that humans deserve protection while animals should be killed.

So what should we do? We should follow the process ourselves, and become liberated enlightened, and then help others in the same way. We can get into that more perhaps.

About Gita - it's good to buy a copy, only there are so many editions and translations which are not written by devotees. These are almost useless. They are useless because Krishna says quite specifically that He is God and He explains all of His energies, and the laws of karma and the ways to get free from repeated birth and death. But if He is not God, then all of it is meaningless - He wouldn't know. So a translation of the Gita which places emphasis on impersonalism or philosophy higher than devotion and personal reciprocation with God is not of much value.

[Freetobeme97526]

I appreciate you taking the time to explain these things to me.

[NikolaiI]

You're welcome.

[Radha Krsna]

http://img.kaskus.us/customavatars/avatar1232601_1.gif

[Radha Krsna]

Download Bhagavad Gita In English (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/agsgita.htm)

Download Bhagavad Gita In Indonesian (http://ngarayana.web.ugm.ac.id/)

[NikolaiI]

yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." [Śvetashvatara Upanishad 6.23]

[Radha Krsna]

Bhagavad Gita As It Is... (http://ngarayana.web.ugm.ac.id/?file_id=25)

[NikolaiI]

http://online-literature.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=2391

[NikolaiI]

Bhagavad Gita As It Is... (http://ngarayana.web.ugm.ac.id/?file_id=25)

Who is that translated by?

Generally when people say Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, they refer to Prabhupada's translation.

Anyway, Prabhupada's translation can be found here: http://www.asitis.com/

[PierreGringoire]

I disagree, Madhuri.. there is more to life than enjoying the senses. In fact the idea that we should try to be Lord is one that causes a lot of suffering. We try to be the lord of the material world, but we end up only becoming bound by it more and more. We are part of the marginal energy of the Lord, etc., and we can only be completely fulfilled if we regain our spiritual consciousness.

Srimad Bhagavatam states, "Life's desires should never be directed toward sense gratification. One should desire only a healthy life, or self-preservation, since a human being is meant for inquiry about the Absolute Truth. Nothing else should be the goal of one's works." SB 1.2.10

And some people are said to have found absolute truth in their hearts? To my understanding we only can learn so much of it. Perhaps trusting that it is there is what these people (like Buddah) have found. I wonder what you can do with that degree (trust of truth). Does one become a dashing centerfigure that desires to free society or does he recline and keep his perfect enlightenment (happiness) to himself?

[blazeofglory]

Who is that translated by?

Generally when people say Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, they refer to Prabhupada's translation.

Anyway, Prabhupada's translation can be found here: http://www.asitis.com/

I too have a book translated by Prabhupad with a wonderful explanation as he is deemed a scholar of ssanskrit and has read the Gita ardently, and his translation is very authentic as he was not only a scholar of Sanskrit but also a devotee himself. He had made the book greatly comprehendible to us, or else the book at times hard to comprehend