This Nietzsche's quote

[subterranean]

"I call Christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are too venemous, too underhand, too underground and too petty--I call it the one immortal blemish of mankind."

My question is, did he see other established religions/beliefs the same way as he see Christianity?

[UncreativeName]

I have always had a hard time following Nietzsche. I never read a full writing of his with the exception of the AntiChrist, I guess I picked the right one to finish.

AntiChrist can be found here, with the quote at the end:
http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

I know there is his praise of Buddhism in there but for most beliefs I think he stood against them, but as much as Christianity I would not know. In the Gay Science he had less of a problem with polytheism.

"143. The greatest advantage of polytheism

For an individual to posit his own ideal and to derive from it his own law, joys, and rights—that may well have been considered hitherto as the most outrageous human aberration and as idolatry itself. The few who dared as much always felt the need to apologize to themselves, usually by saying: "It wasn't I! Not I! But a god through me!" The wonderful art and gift of creating gods—polytheism—was the medium through which this impulse could discharge, purifiy, perfect, and ennoble itself; for originally it was a very undistinguished impulse, related to stubbornness, disobedience and envy. Hostility against this impulse to have an ideal of one's own was formerly the central law of all morality. There was only one norm, man; and every people thought that it possessed this one ultimate norm. But above and outside, in some distant overworld, one was permitted to behold a plurality of norms; one god was not considered a denial of another god, nor blasphemy against him. It was here that the luxury of individuals was first permitted; it was here that one first honored the rights of individuals. The invention of gods, heroes, and overmen of all kinds, as well as near-men and undermen, of dwarfs, fairies, centaurs, satyrs, demons, and devils was the inestimable preliminary exercise for the justification of the egoism and sovereignty of the individual: the freedom that one conceded to a god in his relation to other gods—one eventually also granted to oneself in relation to laws, customs, and neighbors."

So after all this babbling and probably going off topic at one point I think Nietzsche had a basic feeling of loathing for monotheistic religions. This could be backed up by his opinions of Judaism also found in the AntiChrist.

[mono]

My question is, did he see other established religions/beliefs the same way as he see Christianity?

Being one the founders of nihilism, the fact would never surprise me if he refuted any religion/spiritual beliefs that did not accord with his idea that "God [faith] is dead." Whether he judges the same of older worshippers, from Biblical times, I cannot say. As UncreativeName indicated, Nietzsche wrote highly of Buddhism (not exactly an atheistic/agnostic philosophy, but slightly more nihilistic than the average belief), and polytheistic ideas. Some of his writings one can understand with some ambiguity, depending on the translation, but, to answer your question, sub, Nietzsche probably shared similar beliefs against many other established monotheistic, faith-based religions.

[subterranean]

Thank you both, and esp for Uncreative for posting that excerpt about polytheism. I've been wandering some of Nietzsche's works in search of his opinion about other beliefs beside Christianity. But maybe Chrisitanity did have "special" place in his heart among other beliefs.

[mono]

But maybe Chrisitanity did have "special" place in his heart among other beliefs.

Very true, sub. Christianity, along with Islam, seems the most . . . discriminated and sensitive of religions, out of my opinion. Judao-Christian beliefs probably being the most common religious practice in Nietzsche's generation of Germany made it extra vulnerable and recognizable from his nihilistic perspective. A common, shared belief with high concentrations in any one area, however, seems prone to criticism among a mind like Nietzsche's; if you have read much of his other work, he had many rather outspoken opinions, and though I try not to discriminate anyone's beliefs or philosophical treatises, some of his work seems to make less sense to readers with more empathy.

[simon]

I think N's hatred of christianity had a basis of personal anger, since he was raised by devout parents. And from his familiarity of this religion sprang his philosophy of existentialism, but I think that he was mostly agianst the idea of a christian god where the weak and the strong were seperated. This does not include the 'god like' beings, first causes, and creators of other religions. I think he just expanded it to mean god in general since he was speaking to a specific audience.

[subterranean]

Simon, what do you mean by the idea of Christian god, where the weak and strong are separated? Can you explain further, since I don't know such separation in this religion.

[simon]

Well he defines the stong as the wealthy, powerful, intelligent people and the weak and the low minded peasant type people. He says that the ruling class has an obvious advantage over the weak and that they, the weak, suffer from slave morality where they are really the good and the srtrong the bad, even though society has it dubbed the other way around. He uses the example of eagles and lambs where the eagles fly off for food and think poorly of the lambs becuase they just stand around waiting for their food and don't seem to work for it. And the result is that the weak are weak and the srong are strong becasue they cannot break this mold so it becomes true.

Basically from what I gather and I may be wrong, is that N was attacking the morality of religion. He thought that weak were just feeling resentment, thier slave morality and were just waiting for god to do seek revenge for them. He compares this resentment as he compares it to Christian love. For N there is a mentality to overthrow the strong, he says, "might is right".

So he then says that when the strong rejects all the ideals of power and wealth then he will unbalance this ridiculous concundrum and realize that humans have no meaning. So in that sense it is all against a christian god becuase he is advocating that that god does not exist.

He talks about all this in his Geneaology of Morals.

[byquist]

Maybe his ranting is because his disposition was sour. If you know as to his temperament , inform me. Did he have kids? Was he jilted by a girlfriend?

Now, Chekhov had a beef about religion also (tough religious upbringing and his dad made him pray on his knees on cold church floors for long stretches), but he didn't let it get to him. So, we see at the end of Uncle Vanya, although Chekhov may not be a believer, we see a sympathic reference to heaven and angels, etc. Chekhov's life, although he was spoiled by women, was kindly and in some ways unselfish. Was Nietzsche's personal life similar to Scrooge, or is this just "grasping at straws"? Advise on my background questions as to his personal life. Because he always seems angry.

[Miss Darcy]

My question is, did he see other established religions/beliefs the same way as he see Christianity?

I think he probably did, monotheistic religions, at least. From what I remember, his complaint was usually religion in general.

But as to why exactly he wrote that, regardless of whether 'tis about Christianity or not, he had this idea about hardship. He was against religion and alchohol, because they soften or drown your hardships, and so instead of standing up to them you end up forgetting about them and not getting anything out of them. You also stay miserable longer if it's repressed. He found that hardship (and man did he have a lot of it in his life!) is strengthening and mind-building, if you can only stand up to it. For example, there is a lot of hardship involved in climbing a large hill/mountain/cliff/rock (er, don't ask me, what is the proper English word for it...skála...is there such a word in English) - but when you reach the top, what an invigorating feeling you experience, and what a beautiful view there is. So basically, hardship is worth it, and so we should try to overcome it to become better people.

Miss Darcy.

[SwiftSleigh7]

The man was a deranged philosopher whose rantings have become the fodder for the rank and file of intelligentsia cliques for decades now. There is little worthwhile to be gained from reading even one word of his bile. So don't waste your time. Meditate upon any holy text you prefer and you will find yourself much farther ahead in your search for true meaning in life than you can expect to if you wile away the hours in pursuit of some glimmer of angst-ridden reverie that passes for the wisdom of Neitszche. The fool has said in his heart there is no God.

[crisaor]

Nietszsche is dead. God lives forever!
Hilarious. :lol:

[subterranean]

No Cris...the post is much more hillarious than the title :lol:





The man was a deranged philosopher whose rantings have become the fodder for the rank and file of intelligentsia cliques for decades now. There is little worthwhile to be gained from reading even one word of his bile. So don't waste your time. Meditate upon any holy text you prefer and you will find yourself much farther ahead in your search for true meaning in life than you can expect to if you wile away the hours in pursuit of some glimmer of angst-ridden reverie that passes for the wisdom of Neitszche. The fool has said in his heart there is no God.

[Loki]

Yea...agree with Sub...:lol:

[The Beard]

Judao-Christian beliefs probably being the most common religious practice in Nietzsche's generation of Germany made it extra vulnerable and recognizable from his nihilistic perspective.

From Nietzsche's nihilistic perspective?!?!

I was under the impression that Nietzsche abhorred nihilism? Didn't he believe it to be a sort of 'will to nothing', considering those amongst its ranks as indifferent to life?

[Saladin]

[B]

My question is, did he see other established religions/beliefs the same way as he see Christianity?

"The Antischrist, page 60

Christianity has cheated us out of the harvest of ancient culture; later it cheated us again, out of the harvest of the culture of Islam. The wonderful world of the Moorish culture of Spain, really more closely related to us, more congenial to our senses and tastes than Rome and Greece, was trampled down (I do not say by what kind of feet). Why? Because it owed its origin to noble, to male instincts, because it said Yes to life even with the rare and refined luxuries of Moorish life.

Later the crusaders fought something before which they might more properly have prostrated themselves in the dust—a culture compared to which even our nineteenth century might well feel very poor, very "late." To be sure, they wanted loot; the Orient was rich. One should not be so prejudiced. Crusades—higher piracy, nothing else! The German nobility, Viking nobility at bottom, was in its proper element here: the church knew only too well what it takes to get the German nobility. The German nobility, always the "Swiss Guards" of the church, always in the service of all the bad instincts of the church—but well paid. That the church should have used German swords, German blood and courage, to wage its war unto death against everything noble on earth! There are many painful questions at this point. The German nobility is almost missing in the history of higher culture: one guesses the reason—Christianity, alcohol, the two great means of corruption.

Really there should not be any choice between Islam and Christianity, any more than between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is given; nobody is free to make any further choice. Either one is a chandala, or one is not. "War to the knife against Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam"-thus felt, thus acted, that great free spirit, the genius among German emperors, Frederick II. How? Must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, to have decent feelings? I do not understand how a German could ever have Christian feelings."

[billyjack]

From Nietzsche's nihilistic perspective?!?!

I was under the impression that Nietzsche abhorred nihilism? Didn't he believe it to be a sort of 'will to nothing', considering those amongst its ranks as indifferent to life?

indeed:thumbs_up

just another example of his being misread or mistranslated.

on a side note, he holds atheism in contempt too. all three: atheism, nihilsim, christianity are an illness of humanity, a narrow minded hemorrhoid of thought caused by over-pushing unquestioned convictions to the point of inflammation, irritation, itchiness, and embarrassment