JLB Collected Fictions

[Qaphqa]

I'm been thinking of buying Borges' Collected Fictions after enjoying the smaller Labyrinths collection. However, I've read many customer reviews on Amazon saying that the translation for CFs is terrible.

Can anyone offer their opinion on Andrew Hurley's translation of Borges' short stories?

[stlukesguild]

I am a huge fan... as in fanatic... of Borges. He is probably the artist (in any field) who is most responsible for my coming to terms with late Modernism/Post- Modernism. I own Labyrinths, and Ficciones, and several other volumes... as well as the Collected Fictions, Collected Poems, and Selected Non-Fictions. I have seen nothing in the translations that left me disappointed. I can imagine that anyone who spent years reading the translations in Labyrinths might have a few points to pick over with any new translation... but I looked through the few negative comments on Amazon (which were contrary to the critical reviews, by the way. The Times Literary Supplement review declared: "Hurley’s efforts at re-translating Borges are not anything but heroic. His versions are clear, elegant, crystalline." ) and found the complaints mostly ridiculous... arguing over the choice of "hallway" rather than "corridor" etc... If you have your doubts, why not simply pick up one of the other smaller collections of Borges work: The Aleph or the Book of Sand published by Penguin and utilizing Hurley's translations.

[Petrarch's Love]

I've just finished a leisurely read cover to cover of the Collected Fictions in the Hurley translation recently and enjoyed it thoroughly. Indeed, I'm thinking of purchasing a copy when I get back to Chicago in the fall, since I had just checked it out of the library. I've never attempted the original Spanish, and I had only read bits of Borges here and there in the past, so I can't really make a good comparison with either the original or with other translations, but my impression was that it was of a very finely and carefully wrought translation, and, leaving any possible quibbles about accuracy aside, it provided a fine and engrossing reading experience. Hurley also provides fairly detailed end notes explaining his choice of word and attempting to give some further sense of the original in certain places where he feels something is being lost in translation, which is usually a mark of a good translator. (As I think about it, too, it strikes me that, if anything, a few slight and inevitable inaccuracies in translation only add another layer of intrigue to that complex and shifting quality so much in the spirit of this particular writer ;)).

By the way, I'm completely willing to enthuse about Borges at the moment if either of you fancy a discussion sometime. :)

[stlukesguild]

You tempt me, Petrarch. Have you given any time to his essays and poetry? The way in which he blurs the lines between genre, I find they are almost the same as the fictions. So what is your favorite work by Borges? I was going to say that for me such is impossible... but then again... as a incurable bibliophile (if not bibliomaniac) I must go with The Library of Babel. I actually own that work in a book devoted solely to that story... illustrated with some lovely prints by Erik Desmaziere.

[Drkshadow03]

I am a huge fan... as in fanatic... of Borges. He is probably the artist (in any field) who is most responsible for my coming to terms with late Modernism/Post- Modernism.

Could you unpack this statement, StLuke. Why did you have trouble coming to terms with late Modernism/Post-Modernism?

[stlukesguild]

The essential element of Modernism... as Ezra Pound put it... was to "make it new". I take it that Pound intended that art... in his case literature... needed to speak to and of the present... utilizing whatever artistic vocabulary was needed to achieve this end... as most art of any merit always did to a greater of lesser extent. This was interpreted by many, however, as meaning that art must continually strive for the new way of doing things... for novelty... as an end in and of itself: :"No one had made a painting with their own feces before? It must be a work of original genius!" This is not to question the very real formal innovations of Modernism. Most of the huge innovations in artistic language of Modernism, however, were the result of artists attempting to come to terms with the modern world... the increasing speed of innovation in other walks of life (science, technology, etc...), the industrialization, the alienation of modern city-dwelling, etc... The push came, however, for artistic innovation solely for the sake of innovation: novelty. By late Modernism it became obvious that this direction was resulting in a sort of endgame... as the continual search for the new played itself out into absolute abstraction... Minimalism... and conceptualism.

To my mind, Modernism was one of the greatest and most seminal periods in the history of Western art (perhaps more so in the visual arts than in literature... but I suppose that is arguable). Historically art (and again this may be more true of the visual arts than literature) has continually gone through periods of great innovation (the Renaissance, the Baroque, Romanticism) that are usually followed by far longer periods of apparent stagnation and mannerism (Mannerism, the Rococo, Academic or salon art). This is not to suggest that there are no artists of real genius during those periods... but they are certainly fewer and farther in between. There is also something different about their work. In a manner it seems far more dependent upon what went before... stretching the innovations of generation prior to extremes of logical progression... or spinning satirical variations upon what went before. In this way it may simply be the the artists attempting to make sense or digest what has happened.

As Modernism played itself out we eventually came upon the Post-Modernism... whatever that may be. If Modernism was deadly serious... Post-Modernism was comic. If the central tenet of Modernism was to make it new, Post-Modernism unabashedly appropriated the past. I believe it was an essay by Umberto Eco that described Post-Modernism as follows (to paraphrase from memory): In the past one could simply say "I love you". To do so today is cliche. But one still wishes to convey the same sentiments, so the challenge is to do so in a manner which is not cliche. Thus today we might say, "As Shakespeare said, 'I love you.' " By placing the sentiment within quotes and attributing to another we avoid the cliche. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Initially I found the sort of appropriation... the clever quotations... the story within a story or the painting about painting to be mannered... overly self-conscious... forced... to an extent, phony.

Borges was certainly the writer through which I gained the first real inkling into the sort of "baroque" art (as he himself termed it) of multiple layers of illusion: a fiction within a fiction within a fiction etc... It was also Borges that made it clear that such convoluted art could still speak profoundly of the deepest human concerns... in spite of the layers of artifice... and in spite of the satirical or comedic aspects... as indeed, his art did. I came to recognize that his "baroque" art was but one in a tradition of such layers of illusion that would include Don Quixote, Gulliver's Travels, The Arabian Nights, Daniel Defoe's novels, Kafka, Nabokov, Tristam Shandy, Italo Calvino, Umberto Eco, the paintings of Tintoretto, Veronese, etc... The strongest impulse of this tradition is, as Borges admits, the comic... but the comic need not be lacking in the tragic or the depth of feeling. Don Quixote succeeds in moving us as a tragic figure and gains our empathy and even respect as a character that in the end is far more "heroic" than many of the "serious" heroes of the Romance upon which the Don was built.

Obviously my interpretations of Modernism and Post-Modernism are grossly simplified... or represent but certain threads of the whole. For me, Borges opened me up to an appreciation of an art that I initially found overly convoluted... self-conscious... artificial and a respect... admiration for such... especially in the face of a great deal of art rooted in the ideas of Duchamp (again... speaking of the visual arts) and the drive to break down the barrier between ART and REALITY to the point that we are now surrounded with every weak-thinking art student repeating that old chestnut, "Everything is Art":rolleyes:

[Petrarch's Love]

You tempt me, Petrarch. Have you given any time to his essays and poetry? The way in which he blurs the lines between genre, I find they are almost the same as the fictions. So what is your favorite work by Borges? I was going to say that for me such is impossible... but then again... as a incurable bibliophile (if not bibliomaniac) I must go with The Library of Babel. I actually own that work in a book devoted solely to that story... illustrated with some lovely prints by Erik Desmaziere.

Hi St. Luke's--No, I haven't read much (or any?) of his essays due to lack of time. I haven't read any of the poetry because I really dislike reading poetry strictly in translation if I can possibly avoid it, and my only knowledge of Spanish is based on what I can guess from Latin and Italian, so I would want to get a facing page or both an English and Spanish text and make my way slowly through, which again begs time I don't have. I had heard Borges' poetry wasn't as good as his short stories, so I recently dedicated my South American poet time to Neruda and figured I'd stick to prose for Borges for now. Though let me know if you think there is anything particularly unmissable in his poetic works that I should check out.

As for favorite stories, I'm with you that it's deliciously difficult to pick a favorite from such a mix. One thing I really loved about reading the collected fictions all in a go was the experience it provided of having them all begin to melt and merge and turn into one another like one of his infamous labyrinths. I also was so refreshingly surprised to find the wealth of humor and laughter that flows throughout nearly all the works. My few brief readings of Borges had unfortunately been while under the influence of certain friends and professors who, while undoubtedly nice human beings and well meaning scholars, suffer from that oppressive seriousness that afflicts certain intellectuals. Such people had talked up Borges as a stern example of post-modern theory (incidently, wow am I with you regarding the above post about Borges making the modern/post-modern palatable) and profound philosophy when recommending a few selections of his work (selections that particularly lent themselves to being easily misinterpreted in a straight fashion), so that I'm afraid they somehow managed to squash any hint of humor out of my reading experience (or at least any that wasn't that sort of cold and mirthless kind that comes of playing pointless intellectual games) and leave me feeling a little less than impressed. What a thrill it was, then, to discover in my recent reading all that really exquisitely lively humor--by turns satiric, whimsical, ironic, cynical, accepting, tinged with tragedy, seasoned with an abstract complacency, always nuanced and universal--moving in and through these stories. What a great deal my oppressively serious friends are missing when they focus exclusively on the layered veils of complexity in Borges (undeniably impressive though these are), or on the serious minded symbolism of the comedic elements and miss the experience of that fabulous humor (or perhaps the better word is comedy, or occasionally tragi-comedy) holding it all together.

...But I digress. As for a choice of favorite...I agree with you about "The Library of Babel." I think it would be a hard one for most bibliophiles to resist, and I enjoyed it much more on this reading than I had in the past. Perhaps because I have recently been compelled to read so much literary criticism for the dissertation, I also particularly enjoyed all the invented academic studies. "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Terius," is, of course, great, but the one that had me laughing to tears was "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote". How well he clearly knew the convoluted mind of the academic, and how perfect his dead pan delivery of this serious and profound criticism of a serious and profound work is. When you get down to the two entirely different version of the Quixote that are word for word the same...it's just absurd enough to be hilarious and just near enough to a genuinely interesting idea to be plausible as a publication in an academic journal. There are so many other really great ones. I found "Funes el memorioso" absolutely mesmerizing, and "The Immortal" was deeply compelling, but lies somehow heavily on the soul, while many stories, like "The Secret Miracle," are much quieter but just beautiful examples of how a really talented writer can transform a "gimmick" story into a tightly and memorably constructed little gem. Of course, what Renaissance scholar could possibly resist the temptation of "Shakespeare's Memory." I was actually bracing myself to dislike that last, having been a bit annoyed and disappointed with his little sketch of Shakespeare's life ending with an encounter with God in one of the stories in The Maker (the title escapes me), but I thought "Shakespeare's Memory" hit it just right, especially since it is so undeniably true that Bach is the only possible cure when you feel that Shakespeare is beginning to take over your mind. :nod:

Well, I've rambled on a bit now. I'd better get back to work. Warned you that I might be prone to Borges induced effusions. :p

P.S. Regarding your "Library of Babel" book with the Desmaziere illustrations: that I would love to see. How on earth does one begin to even contemplate illustrating such a fiction?

[stlukesguild]

Petrarch... Overly serious intellectuals and scholars lacking a sense of humor?!:eek: Surely you jest.:confused: Ah Petrarch... you must forgive them... Borges has that effect on some. He is, after all, a sort of writer perfectly suited to scholars. By the way... if I might make a suggestion... as you are obviously so tickled by Borges humorous take on the scholarly absurdities taken to their "logical" conclusion... I would also suggest you check out Augusto Monterroso. His Complete Works and Other Stories is available at Amazon and is a great collection by a rather unknown Guatemalan who was most certainly influenced by Borges. His Leopoldo (His Labors) cracks me up as a perfect tale of the "artist/writer" who continues to labor at his work, but never seems able to actually get around to writing anything.

As you speak of Neruda... you certainly recognized the bit of satire upon Borges old rival in the tale, The Aleph? I agree that Neruda is the better poet (but then again... it'd be hard to think of any poet over the last 50 years that might compete with him). Nevertheless... Borges (who by the way... always considered himself a poet first and foremost) is a very different sort of poet from Neruda. Essentially... he is largely a poet of ideas. His poems succeed as even more reductive variants on his fictions. I'm trying to think of a poet to compare him with... Swift... Pope? One of my favorites is one that might speak to you:

A Poet of the Thirteenth Century

He looks over the laborious drafts
of that first sonnet (still to be so called),
the random scribbles cluttering the page-
triads, quatrains promiscuously scrawled.
Slowly he smooths down angularities,
then stops. Has some faint music reached his sense,
notes of far-off nightingales relayed
out of an awesome future ages hence?
Has he realized that he is not alone
and that Apollo, unbelievably arcane,
has made an archetype within him sing-
one crystal-clear and eager to absorb
whatever night conceals or day unveils:
labyrinths, mazes, enigmas, Oedipus King?
tr. Allan S. Trueblood

Borges essays are every bit as fascinating as his "fictions"... and not far removed from them considering the blurring of fact and fiction in everything he wrote. Actually, my favorite single book by Borges is the Dreamtigers or El Hacedor (The Maker) which was the favorite collection of the author himself... a collection of poetry, fiction, essay, and aphorisms. Beside Dreamtigers, Other Inquisitions and of course the collection, Labyrinths offers a look into some of his most intriguing essays... several of which are upon Dante (which should peak your interest:D). As for Post-Modern literature... well Robbe-Grillet leaves me cold (except for one brief story/meditation, The Secret Room, from his collection, Snapshots). Perec is clever... but eh! Calvino, however, I adore... and also Cortazar and Alejo Carpentier.

[Petrarch's Love]

Petrarch... Overly serious intellectuals and scholars lacking a sense of humor?! Surely you jest. Ah Petrarch... you must forgive them... Borges has that effect on some. He is, after all, a sort of writer perfectly suited to scholars.
Oh yes, I can certainly see how the oppressively serious might come embrace him as their own. He is certainly the scholars' writer (after all who am I, an only slightly less oppressively serious scholar, to throw stones?)

By the way... if I might make a suggestion... as you are obviously so tickled by Borges humorous take on the scholarly absurdities taken to their "logical" conclusion... I would also suggest you check out Augusto Monterroso. His Complete Works and Other Stories is available at Amazon and is a great collection by a rather unknown Guatemalan who was most certainly influenced by Borges. His Leopoldo (His Labors) cracks me up as a perfect tale of the "artist/writer" who continues to labor at his work, but never seems able to actually get around to writing anything.

Great. I'll definitely have to look him up in my spare time. I've come to the firm conclusion that when one is writing a dissertation it is a good idea to laugh at scholars and similar types as much as possible (primarily because this means that one is laughing at oneself, which is always a good idea ;)).


As you speak of Neruda... you certainly recognized the bit of satire upon Borges old rival in the tale, The Aleph? I agree that Neruda is the better poet (but then again... it'd be hard to think of any poet over the last 50 years that might compete with him). Nevertheless... Borges (who by the way... always considered himself a poet first and foremost) is a very different sort of poet from Neruda. Essentially... he is largely a poet of ideas. His poems succeed as even more reductive variants on his fictions. I'm trying to think of a poet to compare him with... Swift... Pope? One of my favorites is one that might speak to you:

I was guessing that bit in "The Aleph" was probably aimed at Neruda. I really will have to look up some of Borges' poetry one of these days. I like the one you posted, but am, of course, instantly wondering what the sound of the original is (darn my fussiness about poetry in translation). Maybe when I get back to the beautiful, huge, and easily accessible UChicago library I'll check out some selections in both languages.

Unfortunately I'll have to cut off our Borges/Post-Modern discussions, at least for the nonce, since I'm heading off for a week of computer free time in Yosemite next week, starting tomorrow. Cheers.

[FalseReality]

The Parable of the Palace absolutely killed me.

[JCamilo]

I have no idea about english versions of Borges, since I have only read him in portuguese and spanish. Anyways, Borge himself worked alongside Norman Giovanni (or watever his name is, i am drunk, so I do not remember) who is his favorite english translator. I am puzzled by any difficult of translation since Borges is quite simple, but hey, that is life.
Talking about the man, It is much clear that his best short stories are from the 40-50 period when Story of eternity, Alleph and fictions are out. My favorite is not the best text, it is House of Asterion. The best must be Library of Babel, Pierre Mernard or The Alleph. It is something like this. But Stuklesguild is right, Borges is beyond it. His real inovation is in his essays - As a literary critic Borges is superior to T.S.Eliot, Bloom, Derrida, etc. He just joined everything in one aesthetic concept and put it to proof. His essays are his first steps and later he transformed 'Make poetry even in prose" of baudelaire in "make poetry even in critical essays". Why, because Borges saw no distinction in reality and fiction and inventing unreal books and giving the same critical format for them was the ultimate logical proof. Borges essays, prefaces, publical speeches are awesome. One of my favorite books of him are sevens nights and the seven dante nights about the Comedy.
As a poetn, Borges is above good, his problem is not the hopeless romantic Neruda but Fernando PEssoa who took Whitman where both could never dream. Borges poems just repeat borges prose, who is year after year, a mirror of himself.

[JCamilo]

Stluklesguild:
Borges is a typical classicist. He have the irony capacity of Voltaire, Swift, etc. He is precise in his prose and poetry. He have the metaphisical side of Blake, Browning and poe and the precise narrative of Stevenson and James (chekc out Stevenson poetry also). There is the obvious "unrealty" of Kafka and the english snobery of Kipling, but check out Felisberto Hernandes, Horancio Quiroga if you want to dig beyong the obscure Macedonio to find Borges short stories precursores.

[capek]

Personally, if there is a question as to the competency of the new translation, I would recommend picking up a copy of Borges, A Reader. For writer, like Borges, who has come into the English speaking world in such piecemeal fashion, it does an outstanding job of providing a whole picture of Borges as a writer. It's broken down into sections of his life and work, each with a concise, helpful introduction. It contains 118 of his stories, essays and poetry, each with a note providing background information on that particular piece. And the editors were fastidious in choosing the best available translations, for the works already translated.

And I agree with JCamilo, this collection has introduced me to more of Borges's essays, which has really allowed me to understand his aesthetic POV. You definitely get the best understanding of Borges through his essays.

[crisaor]

I have no idea about english versions of Borges, since I have only read him in portuguese and spanish. Anyways, Borge himself worked alongside Norman Giovanni (or watever his name is, i am drunk, so I do not remember) who is his favorite english translator. I am puzzled by any difficult of translation since Borges is quite simple, but hey, that is life.
Same here, and I've seen this issue mentioned several times now. One of the translations out there must be pretty dreadful indeed.

[Qaphqa]

Thanks to all who have responded. I will get the complete collection (for me getting individual collections wouldn't make much sense, as they are usually only a few dollars cheaper).

I suppose the reason I was hesitant is because one can grow attached to the specific wordings of a translation, and find the wordings of a different translation disagreeable, simply because they aren't what one is used to. However, if I ever find the new translations of my old favorites ("Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" is my favorite, by the way) less than satisfactory, I will always have my Labyrinths copy available to read.