Counterpoint (music) in Literature?

[srvfan]

Counterpoint is two independent melodies played in harmony with each other. Now Edward Said had mentioned that this musical element may be applied in literature. How is this so? What literary work may Said cite as an example?

[MorpheusSandman]

Technically, counterpoint is a bit more complicated than that. Counterpoint is kinda musical "follow the leader" and it doesn't have to be in harmony (I'm pretty sure there are some dissonant exorcises in counterpoint). Since counterpoint, like so much music requires set temporal space and the written word has no such thing you can only talk about it metaphorically. I'm guessing in literature you could provide parallel stories. But in film for instance counterpoint has often been used to coin two things that off-set each other - like happy music put to a sad scene.

[Virgil]

Counterpoint is two independent melodies played in harmony with each other. Now Edward Said had mentioned that this musical element may be applied in literature. How is this so? What literary work may Said cite as an example?

Morpheus is correrct, that is an overly simplified definition of counterpoint. What you are describing is polyphony. And they do not need to be in harmony with each other, but if they are I think that's polyharmony. Counterpoint I think is also multi meolody (I'm not sure they have to be simultaneous; something in the back of my mind tells me they don't but I'm not sure) but I think that counterpoint requires a specific relationship between the melodies. I don't think it can be just any two melodies. I'm not an expert here, perhaps someone can help us.

As to how it would apply to literature, I think parallel or intertwining story lines can be counterpoint. In Shakespeare' King Lear, the Gloucester story line counterpoints the King Lear story line. You can see there that there is a relationship (parallels and contrasts) between the story lines.


Edit: Here's an interesting explanation of counterpoint from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint.

[stlukesguild]

Wiki defines Counterpoint as: "the relationship between two or more voices that are independent in contour and rhythm, and interdependent in harmony." Certain musical forms such as the fugue or canon lay out very strict rules that make this even more complex. Both literature and music are experienced in a sort of linear unfolding, but in order for something approaching the contrapuntal to occur one would seemingly need a simultaneous unveiling or parallel but differing texts. In film I think of the Godfather and the scene where the baptism of Michael's son with all the lush operatic music and the pomp of the Catholic church and its rituals are interwoven with the various violent assassinations of his rivals. I'm certain that such is possible and has bee done in poetry... and to a point I agree that simultaneous differing story-lines within a novel might amount to a form of counterpoint... the two essentially "countering" each other but resulting in a whole that is more complex than either on its own.

[jgweed]

One might point to the four novels that comprise the Alexandria Quartet. Each can be read independently and contains a story line in itself, but the four main characters (and some of the secondary also) interplay between the books in a kind of harmony of the whole.
And it is commonplace for talking about the "sonata" form in some of Hesse's novels.
Cheers,
John

[MorpheusSandman]

One of the unique things about music is its absolute reliance on linear time. This almost makes it the opposite of literature which has no set temporalness, which is both a curse and a blessing depending. Film continues to be the bastard art (I mean that in the best possible way being a huge film fan) in that even though film uses linear time, it's also free to manipulate it. A set camera will show a scene in linear temporalness, but editing allows it to chop and displace time, which can be used for continuity or not.

In film, like lukes said, montage can be used to create multiple lines of action that give the illusion of occurring simultaneous and the two, when juxtaposed, can produce a 3rd and "higher" meaning. This goes back to Eisenstein's Soviet Montage theory (and films like Strike and Battleship Potemkin).

Anyway, to return to the subject of literature I'm not sure if there's an applicable equivalent. Interwoven storylines are one thing, but counterpoint is reliant on temporal rhythm to create the effect and that's something you just don't have in literature... you might could find a rough equivalent in strictly metered poetry though.

[Virgil]

All of you have made great points. This is another fascinating discussion.

I will say I recall many an English class essay that I used the term counterpoint to play one thought inside a work against another. I wonder if I was correct. ;) I guess that's water under the bridge now. Most of my essays were pretty solid and I've graduated. :lol:

[Kafka's Crow]

Years ago (1989 to be precise), I can still clearly recall my teacher repeating this term countless times while explaining Ernest Hemnigway's style "like Johann Sebastian Bach!". He was one of those teachers whose every word is etched on your memory for the rest of your life.

A quick Google search revealed that Hemingway was not only familiar with Bach but counted him among his influences and was very familiar with counterpointing. The sudden turn of tone in sentences, the counterpointing of colors, of horizontal and the vertical, of life and death... He was familiar with counterpointing as this interview suggests:

http://www.abebooks.com/docs/RareBooks/ernest-hemingway.shtml


I should think what one learns from composers and
from the study of harmony and counterpoint would be obvious.

Read the complete interview here or download in .pdf format:

http://www.theparisreview.com/media/4825_HEMINGWAY4.pdf