A few questions I have about Wicca

[aabbcc]

I would appreciate greatly if somebody could explain to me, and elaborate on, the following:

1. From the information I have gathered, which I admit to be rather scarce as I have never delved into the subject in-depth, what its followers refer to as "Wicca" seems to be the product of XX century. Still, they claim it not to be, using expressions such as "the old religion"; but nobody has ever presented me convinceable arguments for that. Perhaps you could?

2. Fundamentally, is Wicca about theism in form of polytheism (or dualism? God/dess?), or about pantheism? For those are two rather different positions, and none of its followers I have met has cleared that up for me.

3. Related to the first question; if your answer to the first question is indeed that Wicca is a religion older than half of century, how do you explain the presence of syncretism of separate beliefs, younger than the supposed origin of Wicca, in it? And if there is no syncretism to speak of, could you please present arguments why.

4. Are there any prerequisites, certain qualities needed in order to become Wiccan? Is there a formal procedure of becoming one? Does Wicca have proselytist pretensions?

5. Magic, magic, magic... Whenever one mentions Wicca, one inevitably brings it up. So, from the Wiccan position, what is magic? How is it defined? Can anyone do it or are certain prerequisites needed?
Somewhere I have read things such as "it will work if you believe", which if taken literally means admitting that magic is a sort of placebo action. What does Wicca officially say, is magic used as placebo and does it work because it is placebo, or does it have actual power unrelated to the "belief" in that power by the subject who performs it?

6. Speaking of "official" things, are there such things at all in Wicca? Is there an "official" set of rituals, practices, festivals celebrated, beliefs involved - or are those up to the individual? If they are not entirely, could you please put a link or quote a resource dealing with, and tell me who (which individual or organisation) prescribed that set?

7. Could you recommend a realiable authority on Wicca, and a work which does not deal as much with practices as with beliefs, mindset and theology and metaphysics involved?

Thank you in advance.

[aabbcc]

Excellent, the lack of any responses will only strenghten my theory that:
a) Wicca is not a serious, fully-fledged religion;
b) its self-proclaimed followers are incapable or unwilling (I do not know which possibility is worse - incapable would imply lack of understanding, unwilling would imply lack of interest in religious dialogue about supposedly serious religion) of doing insignificant mental exercise to answer a couple of rather basic questions.

Anyone?

[Equality72521]

Honestly, that's a lot to ask for someone to reply to, i'm not going to lie. There's a lot to wicca and its very detailed. Honestly if you want to know so much, do your research. You may not get a lot of response on here due to the fact that that's so much that one would have to reply to. That's pages of information.

Wicca.com is good and useful, as are any books that you can lay your hands on. If this is just to say that you're right and wiccans are wrong and really aren't that interested in the answers, then just stop. Do the research on your own. You can look up origins any where, which would be much more quick and efficient than asking us on here.

my recommendations:

wicca.com

New Age religion section of B&N

the Local Library

[Dark Muse]

I will do my best to address some of your questions, though I will state, that I myself am not a Wiccan, (not all Pagans today are wicca by defult, a mistake some tend to make) but I am familair with Wicca and have stuided it.

1. Wicca was founded in 1954 by Gerald Gardner but it is influenced by older traditions, some of the things they practice are not traditional. Wicca is what is known as "neo-paganism" there are some things Wicca practices that does not really exist in more traditional Paganism, but much of what they believe is drawn from the old. It is true many Wiccans like to make direct cliams to the "old relgion" but this is misleading to do so, and incorrect.

2. This can very either individually or from tradition to tradition, like with Christianity, there is no one single "Wicca" there are different branches of it, which have different practices, as they do not follow any strict dogma. They have varied different beliefs. But many Wiccans put an emphasis upon duality between the God and the Goddess.

4. Wiccans do follow what is known as the three fold-law, which states, anything you do, will come back to you three times three (good or bad), as well they follow the basic principle of Live and let live, and do no harm. Wiccans do share like minded values and beliefs regarding their relation to nature and how they treat and view other living creatures.

5. This is a complex question and it is something that could very between different individuals, as well as different traditions. There are many different explanations, theories, and understandings of magick. Though many Wiccan traditions have different "ranks" novice, priestess, high priestess etc. but there are also "Solitary Witches" that are individual practitioners that do not belong to a Coven or circle.

6. Yes, Wiccans tend to celebrate the Sabbaths, the equinoxes and the solstices. There are set ceremonies and holidays within Wicca. Most of the Wiccan holidays are drawn from old traditional Paganism. Though specific rituals are usually up to the individual person, or the coven or circle. I can come back later providing links discussing holidays, and various rituals and such of the like.

Here are some sites you may find helpful.

Wican Holidays (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1614/Celtwicc/Wicca/Wicca04.htm)

Sabbats and Esbats (http://www.asiya.org/sabbats/)

Religious Facts: Wicca (http://www.religionfacts.com/neopaganism/paths/wicca.htm)

Wicca Beliefs (http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm)

Wiccan/Pagan Traditions (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=9818)

[aabbcc]

Honestly, that's a lot to ask for someone to reply to, i'm not going to lie. There's a lot to wicca and its very detailed. Honestly if you want to know so much, do your research. You may not get a lot of response on here due to the fact that that's so much that one would have to reply to. That's pages of information.
Well, Dark Muse just proved it was possible to convey in a couple of sentences. Certainly that the material is complex, but there is a lot of wit in being able to focus only on what is important - and my questions were not regarding trivia in Wicca, but rather about basic beliefs and concepts.


If this is just to say that you're right and wiccans are wrong and really aren't that interested in the answers, then just stop. Do the research on your own. You can look up origins any where, which would be much more quick and efficient than asking us on here.
Why do you automatically assume that I am entirely ignorant of the subject if I post a couple of questions about it? Whenever I ask a question, it is a result of my own research, not something preceeding it. I am genuinely interested in getting those questions answered, but what could you possibly conclude from the eternal silence and puzzled looks I get when I ask them to self-proclaimed Wiccans? Which is why I decided to post them here as I thought that somebody might be better-versed in that than people I had talked to previously.

From the information I had gathered, I had more questions unexplained than explained, and I had not read any book or article about the matter which I would say to be academically credible (and I judge that by false allusions to and connections with other phenomena, specifically religion in classical antiquity that they often bring up) - but that does not mean that I have not tried to find such resource.


Wicca was founded in 1954 by Gerald Gardner but it is influenced by older traditions, some of the things they practice are not traditional. Wicca is what is known as "neo-paganism" there are some things Wicca practices that does not really exist in more traditional Paganism, but much of what they believe is drawn from the old. It is true many Wiccans like to make direct cliams to the "old relgion" but this is misleading to do so, and incorrect.

More often than not, I hear claims (that people cannot back up, of course) that Wicca is "old religion" founded before any other modern one, by which most of the people I talked to appeared inable to distinguish animist cults from present-day Wicca.

Then you ask them, fine, if it was founded that early, where are archeological and other evidence which point specifically to Wiccan cults as opposed to other types of pre-monotheist cults (and where are the fundamental differences between those)? Could you cite any serious scientific work which dealed with that, which chronologized it? And as they, of course, cannot answer such questions, what can one possibly conclude, other than that Wicca of its present form is XX phenomenon?

I agree with your answer, and I am glad you distinguished in your answer Wicca in its present form from other forms of religious belief and practice which it is influenced by.
Unfortunately, most of supposedly "credible" sources I have encountered do not do that distinction.


But many Wiccans put an emphasis upon [B]duality between the God and the Goddess.
[bolded emphasis mine]
I heard many opposite claims about theist versus pantheist nature of Wicca.
Do you perhaps know whether those deities are viewed as separate, personal deities, or as deities in pantheist sense (G-d = nature = world)?


Though many Wiccan traditions have different "ranks" novice, priestess, high priestess etc. but there are also "Solitary Witches" that are individual practitioners that do not belong to a Coven or circle.
I read about religious hierarchy, but that is not quite what I was interested in.
I am interested, primarily, in what is magic(k) as defined from the perspective of Wicca, because in the 'argumentation' (if one can call it that way) of all the definitions I have heard so far I found logical fallacies and lack of any serious arguments for those definitions.


There are set ceremonies and holidays within Wicca. Most of the Wiccan holidays are drawn from old traditional Paganism.
What do you mean by "old traditional paganism"? Any specific set of pagan beliefs from specific cult, or a mixture of 'common places' in various cults?

Thank you for the links, I will look them up.

However, as I said, I was predominately interested in theoretical background on Wicca - which means, mostly, that I am interested in works and articles written by signed individuals (not wiki-like articles written by G-d knows who with G-d knows which level of academic credibility), who and whose competence I can check, and who elaborate on beliefs rather than just write them down.

For example, the three-fold law. It is not enough just to state it - if a resource desires to be academically credible, then:
a) First you define harm (as a concept);
b) Then you define actions of harm;
c) Then you elaborate on why, from the perspective of Wicca, one must not do harm to others;
d) Then you elaborate on why it is "three-fold law", and why it is precisely that everything returns three times other than some other number of times, how one has come to that number and what does it mean;
e) Then you elaborate on when and in which form it returns and what does it depend upon;
f) Then you connect "three-fold law" which basic beliefs and deities, explaining how it is connected to them;
g) Then you cite other credible sources, what you base your opinion on, etc.

And those, actually, are the very minimum one would have to convey to be somewhat credible.

Which is, essentially, what I have a problem with about Wicca - it seems that whatever I read is a mere stating of what they believe to facts, rather than explained view of the world. And I would not have posted it this way if it were exception - certainly that you can find banalizations of any religion, but you can also find serious resource. Then why I cannot seem to find serious credible resource on Wicca?

That is what I had in mind, and that is what lies beyond my accusation of Wicca not being a 'serious' religion. I would really wish somebody to disprove me and to present me these, as I am truly quite interested in it from the theoretical point of view of somebody interested in comparative religion.

Anyhow, thank you very much for your answers despite not being Wiccan. :)

[Dark Muse]

I heard many opposite claims about theist versus pantheist nature of Wicca.
Do you perhaps know whether those deities are viewed as separate, personal deities, or as deities in pantheist sense (G-d = nature = world)?:)

Based upon the Wiccans I have perosnally known, they view the God and Goddess as two seperate, individual dieties. Often times Wiccans will refer to the God and Goddess as the Lord and Lady


What do you mean by "old traditional paganism"? Any specific set of pagan beliefs from specific cult, or a mixture of 'common places' in various cults?

Some of this information will probaby be in the links I sent you, but the basic Holidays that Wiccans celerbate are Winter Solctice, Spring Equinox, Summer Solstice and Autumn Equinox though called different names in different cultures were celebrated by most traditional Pagans, The Norse, the Angelo-Saxan Heathens, The Celts, etc..

Thank you for the links, I will look them up.

However, as I said, I was predominately interested in theoretical background on Wicca - which means, mostly, that I am interested in works and articles written by signed individuals (not wiki-like articles written by G-d knows who with G-d knows which level of academic credibility), who and whose competence I can check, and who elaborate on beliefs rather than just write them down.


For example, the three-fold law. It is not enough just to state it - if a resource desires to be academically credible, then:
a) First you define harm (as a concept);
b) Then you define actions of harm;
c) Then you elaborate on why, from the perspective of Wicca, one must not do harm to others;
d) Then you elaborate on why it is "three-fold law", and why it is precisely that everything returns three times other than some other number of times, how one has come to that number and what does it mean;
e) Then you elaborate on when and in which form it returns and what does it depend upon;
f) Then you connect "three-fold law" which basic beliefs and deities, explaining how it is connected to them;
g) Then you cite other credible sources, what you base your opinion on, etc.

And those, actually, are the very minimum one would have to convey to be somewhat credible.

An acutal Wiccan could probably better address these questions and in more detail than I can, from the outside looking in. Though I am fairly well versed in Wicca, I do not know all the inner workings, and specifally how they precive certain things.

And the other part of it is, just as different sects of Christianity might answer questions in vary different ways based on their interpretations of the Bible, Wiccans also vary in how they approach their belief. So not all Wiccans would answer questions about magick and other subjective issues all exactly alike.

[aabbcc]

An acutal Wiccan could probably better address these questions and in more detail than I can, from the outside looking in. Though I am fairly well versed in Wicca, I do not know all the inner workings, and specifally how they precive certain things.
I realise that. Thank you anyway. :)

[The Atheist]

Excellent, the lack of any responses will only strenghten my theory that:
a) Wicca is not a serious, fully-fledged religion;
b) its self-proclaimed followers are incapable or unwilling (I do not know which possibility is worse - incapable would imply lack of understanding, unwilling would imply lack of interest in religious dialogue about supposedly serious religion) of doing insignificant mental exercise to answer a couple of rather basic questions.

Anyone?

Your theories are correct in every respect. Wicca is more of a parody of religion than a religion and it's a fairly simple and pointless example of a religion as well. It manages to attract a few adherents thanks to "New Age" branding, but it's no more sensible than the Cottingley Fairies.

Crystals + magick = load of old rubbish.

Like christianity, wiccanism has borrowed parts of old pagan beliefs in an attempt to give it some substance.

Failed.

[jgweed]

One might as well spend one's life reading the Book of the Dead backwards as to spend effort understanding either why otherwise normal people would bother with it, or its dogmas, unless it were a simple hobby like collecting stamps.
Over their temples or whatever they have must be a sign, "abandon reason all ye who enter here."

[johann cruyff]

I usually dismiss "religions" with a pentagram for their symbol these days. Not being ignorant, but occultism, black magic etc. are reserved for people whom I just can't take seriously.