violence in sports

[motherhubbard]

I know there are some people who feel that shooting a paper target is an extreme act of violence and that got me to thinking. Do you think that sports like football, rugby, boxing, wrestling, hockey, cricket, basketball or even dodge ball teach violence? We never hear of violent outbreaks at a shooting or archery event. These guys and fans must maintain self control. However so many other sports are riddled with acts of violence. Even ice-skating had Tonya Harding. But the violence is not just limited to the players or competitor. Fans get out of hand, too. I’ve even heard parents at little league games act out.

So what’s the deal with violence in sports?

[johann cruyff]

No sport teaches violence. If it does occur,on or off the field,only individuals are to be blamed,and they're clearly missing the point. From my personal experience: I used to train basketball for almost 10 years,and the sport itself never made me have a violent outburst against anyone. I was attacked on a court once,the opposing player losing his cool after a mistake,but I did nothing to counter - the referee immediately ejected him from the game,and he was banned for a long time. The game(no matter which one) never teaches violence,I believe,if anything,it builds character and personality. Anything other than that is just a deviant person.

[motherhubbard]

johann, do you think that violent people are attracted to certain kinds of sports?

[johann cruyff]

johann, do you think that violent people are attracted to certain kinds of sports?

Well,that could be true. Again,they're missing the point completely(we all know that martial arts,for instance,are primarily about achieving inner stability and balance of the spirit while keeping the body in shape rather than...fighting),unless they're looking to "rebuild" themselves through sports,but I guess a case could be made for certain types of people being attracted to certain types of sports,yes.

[motherhubbard]

I agree that violence is not the point of sports. If you were to just look at the number of instances that police are called to break up fights at different events it may appear that people involved in sports like archery or martial arts tend to be less aggressive or violently motivated than people play hockey for example. Doesn’t that sound like it should be the other way around?

[Dori]

I play sports year-round and I wouldn't consider myself violent (ice hockey among them). It's the individual--without a doubt.

Violence in any sport is completely beside the point. For instance, contrary to popular belief, most hockey players use the body check in order to gain possession of the puck, not for the sake of knocking someone on their butt. Most so-called "violence" in a sport is accidental, from what I've experienced.

[Bakiryu]

I think most sports actually serve as an outlet for violence. Just think about it, before people used to hunt antelopes, deer and such, now they have cramped desk jobs. The anger drive is still there. And what better way to let it out than sports?

For example, I use sports as a way to let out my anger. Soccer lets me work out my fury without actually harming anyone or getting into trouble and I don't mind kicking a few balls, both metaphorically and figuratively (sorry guys! :lol:)

[Dori]

I think most sports actually serve as an outlet for violence. Just think about it, before people used to hunt antelopes, deer and such, now they have cramped desk jobs. The anger drive is still there. And what better way to let it out than sports?

For example, I use sports as a way to let out my anger. Soccer lets me work out my fury without actually harming anyone or getting into trouble and I don't mind kicking a few balls, both metaphorically and figuratively (sorry guys! :lol:)

Anyone who uses a sport as an outlet for anger should not be playing the sport. Whatever happened to sportsmanship? And what the heck does hunting deer and such (in the old days) have to do with an anger drive? I would think that they would hunt not as an outlet for anger (damn those deer! I'm gonna get 'em!!!!), but as a means of survival. Human beings are not the strong race we once were, that's for sure. I'm still clueless as to what you mean by "anger drive"...

[lugdunum]

I agree, no sports teaches violence, no matter how violent the game is.

Sports are about learning to respect others, rules, opponents.

Sports like Karate, Aikido, boxing, Taikwando or even Capoeira are meant to develop one's body along with one's mind. It's about learning to win with your brain as much as with your strength. They teach you to control feelings such as anger.

Other sports like hockey, football or rugby are also a good way to develop teamwork.

The trigger to violence in sports (in my opinion) is the incapacity of some to control their frustration, their anger. This can be caused by excessive pressure (imposed by themselves or others - parents for example) and the fear to lose, to be humiliated, to disappoint.

Like you say Motherhubbard, if parents can't control their emotions while watching a game, then imagine the pressure their children are under, seeing how important it is to their parents.

With regards to whether violent people are attracted to violent sports, I think that may be true. But then again it might be a way of concentrating their violence/negative energy into something other than "real" life which I guess is a good thing.

[Bakiryu]

Sports like Karate, Aikido, boxing, Taikwando or even Capoeira are meant to develop one's body along with one's mind. It's about learning to win with your brain as much as with your strength. They teach you to control feelings such as anger.


This was sort of what I meant to say, except I being the idiot I am (my english sucks) butchered it up. Sports sort of um, channel your anger and violence and turn it into something else. Something constructive, you begin by wanting to excel but by the end, it's not about the anger but what you do with that anger, which isn't really anger anymore.

Am I making any sense?

[AimusSage]

I always used to be a big fan of Gladiatorial Combat to the death like we used to have back in the good ol' Days. Nowadays we are stuck with big pretenders and actors that aren't worth a dime a dozen, at least there is always Football.(That's soccer for you silly USA people)

Oh, and if anyone is wondering, the WORLD teaches us violence. Not the sports, they are a way to control the violence, since they provide an outlet for all the primal instincts that still control each and every human to a certain extend.

:lol: Sports are great and anyone who dares to disagree is entitled to his or her opionion

[Nightshade]

Well now I was going to get all comfy and start prosing but I really cant be bothered so what would have been a massive ramble can be sumarised in this the problems with sport and violence IMO can all be traced back to teh attitudes that surround it, the strange sort of acceptance people have for the violence that is associated with things like football/ soccer.

[kilted exile]

A lot of it has to do with the personality of the player, but also the way the opponent plays as well can affect things.

I like to think I am hard but fair (my idols growing up were Billy Bremner & Dave MacKay), however if an opponent decides to play a more dirty game I can step up to that level as well

[Dori]

A lot of it has to do with the personality of the player, but also the way the opponent plays as well can affect things.

I like to think I am hard but fair (my idols growing up were Billy Bremner & Dave MacKay), however if an opponent decides to play a more dirty game I can step up to that level as well

Step up? Don't you mean stoop down? ;)

[Virgil]

I agree, no sports teaches violence, no matter how violent the game is.

Sports are about learning to respect others, rules, opponents.

Sports like Karate, Aikido, boxing, Taikwando or even Capoeira are meant to develop one's body along with one's mind. It's about learning to win with your brain as much as with your strength. They teach you to control feelings such as anger.

Other sports like hockey, football or rugby are also a good way to develop teamwork.

The trigger to violence in sports (in my opinion) is the incapacity of some to control their frustration, their anger. This can be caused by excessive pressure (imposed by themselves or others - parents for example) and the fear to lose, to be humiliated, to disappoint.

Like you say Motherhubbard, if parents can't control their emotions while watching a game, then imagine the pressure their children are under, seeing how important it is to their parents.

With regards to whether violent people are attracted to violent sports, I think that may be true. But then again it might be a way of concentrating their violence/negative energy into something other than "real" life which I guess is a good thing.

I think Lug expressed just about everything I would have. The only difference I would add is I do not see playing sports as a channeling of violence to socially accepted means. (I'm not saying that's Lug's piint but it seemed implied and it has been mentioned elsewhere here.) That is frankly psychobabble. Sports burns energy and refocuses a youth's attention, and that is a great thing.

[motherhubbard]

I play sports year-round and I wouldn't consider myself violent (ice hockey among them). It's the individual--without a doubt.

Violence in any sport is completely beside the point. For instance, contrary to popular belief, most hockey players use the body check in order to gain possession of the puck, not for the sake of knocking someone on their butt. Most so-called "violence" in a sport is accidental, from what I've experienced.
Thanks Dori. I hope I didn't imply that hockey players are violent savages.





The trigger to violence in sports (in my opinion) is the incapacity of some to control their frustration, their anger. This can be caused by excessive pressure (imposed by themselves or others - parents for example) and the fear to lose, to be humiliated, to disappoint.

Like you say Motherhubbard, if parents can't control their emotions while watching a game, then imagine the pressure their children are under, seeing how important it is to their parents.


I liked all that you had o say, lugdunum, but I wanted to look at just this part. Why don't we expect everyone to control their temper? I know that there are times that I get really angry and I want to scream or slam doors, but I’ve always been expected to control my temper and acting that way would be absolutely unacceptable. I don’t think that society has the same expectation for men. Do you think we view violent outburst as more acceptable from men?



:lol: Sports are great and anyone who dares to disagree is entitled to his or her opionion

I agree, but what's the deal with all of the fighting?


the problems with sport and violence IMO can all be traced back to teh attitudes that surround it, the strange sort of acceptance people have for the violence that is associated with things like football/ soccer.

I agree. I just don't understand how this is acceptable.


Sports burns energy and refocuses a youth's attention, and that is a great thing.

That's a great statement and I think you are right. but so often other things happen that can really be harmful. things like fights between players or fans or parents who scream and call names can really be detrimental.

[lugdunum]

But then again it might be a way of concentrating their violence/negative energy into something other than "real" life which I guess is a good thing.

Ok I've been thinking about what I said here and I take it back. ;) What I meant to say is that sports can be a good way to learn to control that violence. Because violence is seldom tolerated.

Competition is a good way to learn how to lose and learn from your mistakes and try to improve. The problem is when competition is seen as a battle, a way to impose yourself. The thing is that you have to learn how to lose. The message we should teach (ourselves and others- especially children) shouldn't be "only winners write history" but "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better" (S. Beckett) or "No matter how hard the loss, defeat might serve as well as victory to shape the soul and let the glory out" (A. Gore).


Motherhubbard
Why don't we expect everyone to control their temper? I know that there are times that I get really angry and I want to scream or slam doors, but I’ve always been expected to control my temper and acting that way would be absolutely unacceptable.

Well this thing about not controlling your temper is something you have to learn. You can expect fits from little kids (and then you'd tell them of and explain how they shouldn't react that way :)) but definitely not from adults.



I don’t think that society has the same expectation for men. Do you think we view violent outburst as more acceptable from men?

As Ally Mc Beal said:

"We're women. We have a double standard to live up to". ;)

No seriously, even if we shouldn't generalize, it's true that you expect this kind of reaction from men more than from women. Maybe because women are more mature?? (You'll probably all think I'm a feminist now :p ). When it comes to reactions, I think that men and women are different.

And no, I don't think it's viewed as more acceptable.

Actually, I think that people who lose their temper easily are seen as people whom you cannot trust. In politics for example, when candidates have (TV) debates, the one who loses his temper will go down in the polls.

[jaywalker]

Er- is boxing a sport ? Does NO sport advocate violence ?

[Virgil]

Er- is boxing a sport ? Does NO sport advocate violence ?

I don't think it "advocates" violence, but I do admit it uses violence as the sport's medium. Yes, I do have issues with boxing as a sport.

[sprinks]

I know this is about "violent" sports.... But the most 'violent' sport I ever played was netball! :lol:Those girls can sure get nasty. During games we've come off after a quarter only to hear reports about how the other team was scratching and slapping and pushing people. Of course they never got picked up for it. I remember one time, when it was our two school teams playing. I was GK and the GS had been a friend of mine up until a year or two before. She pushed me aside and I tripped and busted my knee. Then after going to the first aid place and getting my knee taped up, the team decided I couldn't play any more, ever, because it was too dangerous with my joint condition. And that was all in the first 10 minutes of the game.

A girl in my Lit class plays soccer (I forget how this all works. The one with the round black and white ball = our soccer). A few weeks back she was talking about the last match in which another girl kicked her and busted her ankle. She said that she wanted to take a machine gun and shoot that girl and the referee and the spectators because she was that angry at the girl.

It depends on the individual, I don't think the sport has too much to do with it, unless they use their energy in the wrong way and as been said before, if they use anger out in the field or court etc.

[motherhubbard]

Sprinks, I'm glad you aren't playing anymore. I was really worried until I got to that part.

I know some girls who are no good at basketball because they are not aggressive enough. There is the expectation that they will elbow someone in the gut to get the ball if they think they can get away with it.

does anyone have an explanation for the violence that often occurs after these events? Remember that rash of fighting that happened some time back

can someone tell me why shooting is so violent but fencing or archery are not or why any of these are violent when martial arts are not?



(btw- I’m not anti-sports. I love sports and believe that kids should be involved in them as long as there is not a lot of pressure or danger. I hate to see little league dads yelling and screaming or acting disappointed in kids who screw up. It’s just a game and I feel like we should play our best and have fun more than we should focus on pulverizing the competition. I want to build character and experience in kids, not make them feel bad.)

[TheFifthElement]

can someone tell me why shooting is so violent but fencing or archery are not or why any of these are violent when martial arts are not?

I don't think they are violent, motherhubbard, though I'm sure there are some that would disagree. All of the sports you've mentioned require discipline, skill, control and dedication to do them well - certainly this is the case in archery of which I have personal experience, though I can't speak for the other sports specifically. Shooting is a difficult one to comment on, as in UK the handgun laws make competitive shooting (guns) nigh on impossible.

Very rarely have I observed violence within sports (though boxing is an obvious example to the contrary!) but often you see violence around sports, particularly football where hooliganism can be rife. But I can't say it's the sport (game?!?) that's to blame - often the sport is just an excuse to act on feelings which would otherwise have to be contained, and the availability of the crowd allows for a big impact whilst maintaining a degree of anonymity, or obscurity in the eyes of the law. The crowd means they're more likely to get away with it, I guess. Drinking is a problem too, certainly. Sometimes I see football as being, in some respects, quite tribal. Or perhaps a modern day example of how it was that the 'Knight' managed to get the 'peasants' to fight to their deaths for his 'honour'. But perhaps that is a little unkind.

Just whilst we're on the subject, what is it that makes 'sport' a sport? A lot of activities are, these days, labelled as 'sports' which I would have more appropriately labelled as 'games' like football, baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis and the like. On the other hand, I see sports as areas which in some way reflect basic human survival skills, like hunting: archery, shooting, javellin, discus; skills in avoiding predators: climbing, running, jumping, gymnastics (perhaps) and so on. Will we one day, soon, have people getting gold medals in the Olympics for Twister?!

[motherhubbard]

Just whilst we're on the subject, what is it that makes 'sport' a sport? A lot of activities are, these days, labelled as 'sports' which I would have more appropriately labelled as 'games' like football, baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis and the like. On the other hand, I see sports as areas which in some way reflect basic human survival skills, like hunting: archery, shooting, javellin, discus; skills in avoiding predators: climbing, running, jumping, gymnastics (perhaps) and so on. Will we one day, soon, have people getting gold medals in the Olympics for Twister?!



I like this question. I had asked why bowling was a sport but then I backed out not wanting to offend any bowlers. I still shocked at this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Nns4CRknY

Those are some pretty impressive flips, but it’s hard for me to think of it as an Olympic sport.

[lugdunum]

Just whilst we're on the subject, what is it that makes 'sport' a sport? A lot of activities are, these days, labelled as 'sports' which I would have more appropriately labelled as 'games' like football, baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis and the like.

Well the UK is the first country to have recognized darts as a sport... :p

[TheFifthElement]

I had asked why bowling was a sport but then I backed out not wanting to offend any bowlers.

hmm, perhaps bowling could be classified as form of hunting, you know, if you were on a desert island and a wild pig wandered by, if you were a skilled bowler you might be able to knock it out with the nearest coconut :p

I like trampolining, it's great fun, but an Olympic sport? Hmm. Apparently the Olympic committee also recognise roller skating as a sport, but it's not included in the formal programme (lack of interest!).


Well the UK is the first country to have recognized darts as a sport... :p

darts? What's wrong with darts? It's like javelin but smaller, or archery without the bow. You could hunt small birds and mice with a set of darts! Or take someone's eye out (I certainly would!). Hunting. It comes in many forms ;)

My husband came up with an interesting idea. Sports don't need rules - or rather the 'rules' as such would be incredibly basic. Given a level playing field, who runs fastest, throws farthest, jumps highest, etc. Compare that to a 'game' and games a rife with rules. I suppose that kind of makes sense. I'm sure someone will come along who can shoot the theory down!

[motherhubbard]

darts? What's wrong with darts? It's like javelin but smaller, or archery without the bow. You could hunt small birds and mice with a set of darts! Or take someone's eye out (I certainly would!). Hunting. It comes in many forms ;)



:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Virgil]

Will we one day, soon, have people getting gold medals in the Olympics for Twister?!

:lol: :lol: :lol: That was very funny.

[Dori]

Violence, I believe, is relative; what it means to you could mean something terribly different from what it means to me. For instance, my twin brother and I often exchange jabs (in attempt to catch the other off guard!). This is just play, I think. However, some radical pacifist (or perhaps a chance passer-by, who knows?) would consider this violence. My dictionary (alas! my source of wisdom...), defines violence as "physical force used so as to injure, damage, or destroy; extreme roughness of action." But where does one draw the line? I, for one, can withstand (and no doubt tolerate) what others might consider uncalled-for aggressiveness, of which they imagine would injure them considerably.

Sports are, above all, a mind game--more so than a physical one. Ask any athlete. And sometimes, when the mind is stressed and unhappy about the current state of affairs, it starts to get, well, creative, let's say. So the player devises some means (violent means, no less) of perhaps giving themselves an advantage. Otherwise, violence in sports occurs as a result of some sort of revenge for an accidental (or sadly, though uncommonly, deliberate) mistake which somehow angered the other player. Athletes often make split-second decisions, their results sometimes detrimental. Spectators are unaware and often ignorant of this (which angers the player even more, or so I've experienced). It is futile to believe that an athlete would likely think about the consequences of his/her actions in the midst of a game. The focus is winning--sometimes at all costs (I speak of my experience in soccer and ice hockey here).

I think I have gone on long enough and related quite fully what I have experienced during the years of my indulgence in sports ( which are still continuing, I might add).

[Virgil]

Is violence in sports any more or less than in real life? Just because violence happens in sports doesn't mean it was caused by the sport. Last time I checked human beings were participates in sports and human beings have many aspects to them.

[lugdunum]

Is violence in sports any more or less than in real life? Just because violence happens in sports doesn't mean it was caused by the sport.

Well, no later than today, I was reading in the local newspaper that an old man stabbed his opponent after losing at a game of cards... There wasn't money involved or anything, the old man just lost it. Talk about poor losers!!! ;)

[motherhubbard]

maybe the question should be about sportsmanship

[Virgil]

Well, no later than today, I was reading in the local newspaper that an old man stabbed his opponent after losing at a game of cards... There wasn't money involved or anything, the old man just lost it. Talk about poor losers!!! ;)

Now there is a violent sport, cards. :lol:

[wilbur lim]

I know there are some people who feel that shooting a paper target is an extreme act of violence and that got me to thinking. Do you think that sports like football, rugby, boxing, wrestling, hockey, cricket, basketball or even dodge ball teach violence? We never hear of violent outbreaks at a shooting or archery event. These guys and fans must maintain self control. However so many other sports are riddled with acts of violence. Even ice-skating had Tonya Harding. But the violence is not just limited to the players or competitor. Fans get out of hand, too. I’ve even heard parents at little league games act out.

So what’s the deal with violence in sports?

These have purport.

[Joreads]

I don't think it is the sport I think it is the people, it seems that as a society we are become more violent.