My faith has been shaken; a cry out for help

[Gozeta]

No point to continue on. The world is at its end. By the end of this century the sea level will rise approx. 30 feet. Engulfing all islands in the world and taking all cities near the coast under. The Global warming is no longer a theory it is a fact. Is this one of the seven signs of the apacolypse?

[Snukes]

I wonder who decided there were only seven signs of the apacolypse? Seems a little odd to me. Had a chance to look through Revelation in your Bible lately? Many, many things are listed there as "signs" of the end and yes, among those many are a whole series of natural disasters. Just take a look at our most recent mega-earthquake. Global warming is scary, but that earthquake is right on top of us. A lot of people are dead, a lot of people are missing, and a lot more are mourning. Scary.

Of course, Revelation is a bit difficult to unravel. If you're seriously interested in having information on the Bible's view of the end of the world, you would do better to check out some of the less cryptic books. Check out the first part of 2 Timothy chapter 3. Reads a bit like the headline page of your local newspaper, doesn't it? Most of the indications the Bible gives about the end of this system are related not to natural disasters, but to the behavior of humans. This earthquake is a tragedy because so many are so suddenly dead, but what about all the people who die in wars? No because some force of nature but because of other people. I find that REALLY scary.

I would suggest that even if you're not a Bible-banging, Doom-preaching, religious fanatic, it's awfully hard to look at the way the world is shaping up today and believe that there's any direction it's heading other than disaster, and nothing we do seems to make any real difference...

[rocksea]

By the end of this century means at least 50 years hence. By that time mankind will be advanced enough to take care of it. Then again, global warming is still under dispute. Note that it doesn't occur. But how, to what extend the earth/ocean will react to it. It is possible that it get balanced in due time, nature has always done it. There are also theories which say pollution will lead to a phenomenon called aerosol cooling, due to the radiation reflecting back..

[Snukes]

There are also theories which say pollution will lead to a phenomenon called aerosol cooling, due to the radiation reflecting back..

Yikes! Are you suggesting that we're going to save the world from global warming by seeing to it that the world is sufficiently polluted??

[Gozeta]

Seven signs is in "The Seven Seals, The seven trumpets..." That's what I mean "Seven Signs"

Anyway, some people believe strongly that Christ might come at this
generation. For most of the signs have been completed. The world is in turmoil and man keeps on ignoring it. Is there no hope to save it? Or is it Gods' plan to leave it to ruin?

By the way yes Earth temp. will drop but not because of pollution. It's because of the water of the polar ice caps interfering with the oceans natural flow. So, prepare for another ice age.

[Dyrwen]

People have been waiting for the apocolypse since the idea first popped up.

"Behold, for I come quickly" was something like the phrase Jesus used to refer to his "imminent return" but that was 1,900 years ago. Let's just say, "quickly" is a little slower than we might imagine it should've been. Hell, draw all the signs ya like, the end times are pretty self-fulfilling anyway. If people believe the world really is going to end, they'll end it. The rest of the intelligent people on the planet will just sit back and wonder what went wrong when all these crazy people freak out and attack them though.

If you're referring to any prophecy though, remember: 2 Peter 1:20 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation".

[Gozeta]

Yes, but you can see that this world is falling apart. Ozone layer being depleted. Earths' climate is taking a strange behavior. Epidemic diseases are starting to spread. Also, a world war lll seems eminent. Destruction can be just around the corner. Not to mention that the whole world seem oblivious to the clues.

[subterranean]

This is interesting. You guys must have heard about the monstrous Tsunami earthquake that hit south and east asian regions (including my country, which caused 5000 deaths so far). Recently there are many earthquakes happening, in local or in a larger scale, and I heard many preachers from (various religions) preach in their sermons that these quake are just one sign of the comming of the end. Of course, people got scared and beginning to re-evaluate their fate. But I guess this kind of thing always happen everytime some huge disaster occured and it's funny to notice that.

[Gozeta]

Actually I never heard of that until now but thanks.

[subterranean]

Oh I feel like giving a comment about so un-informed you are. But then, everyone has his/her own point of attention.

[Scheherazade]

Gozeta> Read the news thread in General Chat...

[baddad]

We are just another species living on this planet. Biblical proclamation or not, I guarantee you that most species on earth will have their moment in the limelight and then, PPoooffffff.......gone. 'People' may be in danger, but the planet definately is not!This planet has had lots of personifications: dust, a group of little planetoids glomming together, a molten ball of rock, etc.The planet will not care, doesn't care, what humans inflict upon it, and in a billion years the earth will still be orbiting the sun....maybe as a big chunk of dried up metamorphic rock, but, calmy orbiting nonetheless.........

I must add here my condolences to those whose lives have been touched by the Sumatra quake/tsunami nightmare......

[Dyrwen]

I always take comfort in knowing the dinosaurs were here for millions of years.

We've only been here a couple thousand. 30k I believe, if my memory serves me right. That could be 300k though. The world isn't going to be ending anytime soon lest we do it ourselves. Global warming? Please. Even if you're worried about it, the effects won't truly harm anyone for another couple hundred or possibly even thousand years. World War 3 is a possibility, sure, but then again there have always been big wars. Rome Fell once upon a time, too. And everyone believed it was the End Times when it happened because of its size. Disease is natural, so I wouldn't worry so much there. If anything we're doing a spectactular job at fending off disease, unlike we usually did in the past. I'd say AIDs really is getting to be a problem, but then again, in the US people die of flu or lung cancer more often, or so I hear.

Potentially speaking: One person dies every time you take a breath, yet we're still going. It's wishful thinking to believe you're in the End Times, is all I'm saying. Everyone wants to be there for the end, so that their fate is already destined for them and they don't have to determine it themselves. Though that is a loose generalization, I'd say it has some weight considering every generation believes they're in the End times.

In 1910s it was the industrialization or WW1. The 1920s believed it when everyone got decadent. The 30s with the depression. The 40s with WW2. The 50s with the Cold War. The 60s with civil rights. The 70s with more decadance and Vietnam. The 80s, well, probably just the rise of the religious right did that. The 90s there was the middle east, or if you like, the 80,000 dead in Rwanda in a one day massacre.

Take enough history and any fear of the end sort of goes by the wayside, unless you're really guillible that is.

[Gozeta]

But if I take enough history like you. Then I'll be just as oblivious as you are about the amount of damage done to the earth already. All of those examples you gave were of human history. Maybe you should take on some Earth history to notice that it is out of pattern and in turmoil. Maybe it won't end until 2000 years later but I figure the message should be passed along. If there is anything we can do NOW to prevent such calamity.

[Dyrwen]

Pass whatever message you like, I say. Lucky for the dinosaurs they got wiped out by a freaking asteroid, though leave it to human ingenuity to find a way to do it themselves.

You're more humanistic than I, by willingly attempting to progress society's chances of survival, but that's just a difference in opinion. I'm pessimistic and suppose realism, you're optimistic and also suppose it to be realistic, whether either of us is correct isn't much of a point, but it just distinguishes the subjectivity of humanity's existence. To some: When we die out the Earth will rebuild itself like it has done thousands of time before. To others: We have to save the Earth to save ourselves.

I see humanity's demise as euthanasia for the planet's disease that is us, but that doesn't mean I can't still enjoy life. Hell, you might be happy because Jesus would return at the end of the world, which is just as selfishly thoughtless to the future. To believe anyone will return and save all the believers undermines the point to life itself: For why should one fear the end if one has nothing to lose but mortal life?

[Gozeta]

Wouldn't it be better if we try to save it now? So, that others have a future to enjoy in? Which you seem selfishly thoughtless to the future by caring only for yourself. (Bravo!)

[Dyrwen]

To save humanity is to doom the planet, in most cases. General regard for the planet is held by all, but until we actually begin dying in droves because of what we've done to the planet, no one will truly care. Personally I don't believe it is possible to "save" the human race, but that doesn't mean it isn't still going to continue on for another couple thousand years and suceed greater than we are now.

I used to share some commonplace well being of humanism towards the rest of the people in this world, but I've since given it up for lack of reason to uphold it. I don't contest that what I believe is not selfish; it is very much so selfish, but that doesn't mean I don't have my priorities just as you have yours. To me, what happens to this world means little because I won't be around to see it happen. And beyond that selfish inclination, I also contest that the willingness to actually believe you can save the world is just as selfish in that one believes one is really that superior to the world they're on that they above all others can save it. I believe the Earth doesn't need saving and that we are merely parasites and just another species to eventually die out. That is merely my own pessimistic outlook.

Humans work by taking over land, reproducing, and destroying what conflicts with their wants in most cases. It is only an inevitability that humanity will have its demise at some point because all animals do. I just feel that since it certainly won't happen in my lifetime, there's no point in worrying about it, even if it does hamper future generations. Selfish? Yes. Reasonable? I'd like to think so. Why spend my time and energy trying to save the planet when I could be doing things I enjoy doing that might make the limited time we have here more meaningful? That's all I'm trying to say, I think.

[Gozeta]

Wow, you are good. Can't continue to argue here. I'm fighting a losing battle. This is very annoying.

[Dyrwen]

Heh, don't take much from it. I try to answer to the best of my abilities and I started answering purely religious questions all the time at 15 only to grow tired of it. Let's just say the trick is to always know exactly what you believe because once you know that, you know exactly how to defend it. Just keep asking questions and looking into yourself to see what you believe, it'll make sense and seem just as persuasive as what I said if you defend it enough times. :)

[octaviaoccult]

May I please interject: "If all of the true christians in the world were to disappear due to a "rapture", no one would notice, so few are their numbers. Those who believe them selves to be christians generally are not. Pity to buy into a sold out time share project, only to find that the advertiser has left the building.

[Bongitybongbong]

"If all of the true christians in the world were to disappear due to a "rapture", no one would notice, so few are their numbers. Those who believe them selves to be christians generally are not.
I'd have to believe that easily because many of us just go to church and they think they get to say, "I'm saved". More, less humans won't destroy the planet unless we try pretty hard to wipe each other out with nukes. Besides that, the most likely thing to happen would be a slow decay on Earth.

[Stanislaw]

I think, if God wills it, we will be allowed to obliterate ourselves, but only at the specified time. In the Bibal it state that not even Jesus will know the end time, so it is very arrogant to assume that we can predict our downfall.

[mono]

May I please interject: "If all of the true christians in the world were to disappear due to a "rapture", no one would notice, so few are their numbers. Those who believe them selves to be christians generally are not. Pity to buy into a sold out time share project, only to find that the advertiser has left the building.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, octaviaoccult, but I think the true Christian would also interject, replying to your judgment: "Judge not, lest ye be not judged."

[Jack_Aubrey]

I think that many signs of the Apocalypse have already being revealed. Have they not?

[Basil]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, octaviaoccult, but I think the true Christian would also interject, replying to your judgment: "Judge not, lest ye be not judged."

Are you, uh, sure you've got the correct quote there, M0N0?

[subterranean]

I think that many signs of the Apocalypse have already being revealed. Have they not?

Earthquakes, wars, conflcts, sickness, parents against children vis a versa...tell me something new..

[Bongitybongbong]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, octaviaoccult, but I think the true Christian would also interject, replying to your judgment: "Judge not, lest ye be not judged."
That sounds like the lyrics from Hollier Than Thou "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself..." I'm sorry for this.

[Stanislaw]

Earthquakes, wars, conflcts, sickness, parents against children vis a versa...tell me something new..

I think we have always existed as such.

[mono]

Are you, uh, sure you've got the correct quote there, M0N0?

Yes, I feel sure.

*google to find source*
Judge not, [lest] that ye be not judged. (Matthew 7:1)

[subterranean]

You're right there Mono: Judge not, that ye be not judged.

But maybe Basil didn't mean right as in the right quotation. I mean by saying "Are you, uh, sure you've got the correct quote there, M0N0?" maybe Basil was being ironic ..Just a guess.

[subterranean]

I think we have always existed as such.


Well that's why Jack Aubrey's post made me wonder.

[Jester]

I jsut have to say that in one culture the end is coming precisely December 23, 2012 in our time, calculated by anchient civilizations with a different system...

i agree with soem of the above that throughout history there has been countless disasters and that this global warming is only one more... to say its been caused by humans is true so i guess what im saying is that humans are natural disaster

I used to think and strongly beleive that I could save the world... or at least help in that endeavor it took me some time to realize that to me the problem wasn't saving (the world isn't drowing or jumping off a cliff yet its getting there) it that the world needed changing in my eyes so i set about changing myself, becoming who i thought humans should be, my example... to which point (i'm still ebttering myself every day as most our) I come to the conclusion that the selfish thoughts of living now because we won't be aroudn then is not true.

These are the worst of times that we'll ever experience and they can only get worse... likewise if one person, even one saught to make a change, they would be the change. They just have to start with one other and one more after that... I also realized that to change the world you must change the what we teach our youth and perhaps this maybe 1984ish but to mold them into believing and educating them... imagine raising a generation so full of hope and determination to change what we do... imagine what could be accomplished... therefore everyone can do soemthing

as for the apocalypse i once did a report where i compared now to past dreadful occurances like the black death plague and then people were sure it was the end times, and before with each great catastrophe since christ spoke those words people have believed that it was the end times but we're still here...

the only thing we really have to fear is a cosmic impact... or the sun blowing up since that'll destroy us all first but as my brother once put it, when that time comes humans will have the power to unhinge the earth from it orbit and take it to a safter location.... I know how we would do that too!

[Sitaram]

There is an amusing and instructive Zen story about a monk who is on pilgrimage through a wilderness. Suddenly, a lion appears and begins to chase him. He runs until he reaches a cliff, grabs a vine, and jumps over the edge of the cliff. He is now hanging, suspended by a fragile vine. Above him, the lion is roaring and trying to snare him in his claws. Below, a drop to his death and another lion below, waiting to devour him. He notices two small mice, one white and one black, come out of a crevace in the cliff and begin to gnaw at the vine which supports him. Then, he notices a beautiful, ripe strawberry growing within his reach. He holds on now by only one hand, and which his free hand, he plucks the strawberry, pops it in his mouth, and savors its sweet flavour.

Each of us is like that monk. Our existence is fragile, and, all too soon, we die. Hence, all the more, must we live, and let no ripened savor pass us by.

[Jester]

thats like stop and smell the roses.... truth is we're all being chased by lions and no matter what we're dead anyway but wouldn't you want to make life a little bit more... more for everyone? Thats why I'm not going through and saying, its the way it is there's nothign i can do, I have to beleive there's something that i can do to make it so that man on the vine has a little more... to love and to want to stay alive... (does that make any sense)

[Adelheid]

Then shouldn't we stop to ponder what our existence here on earth really is for? This verse comes to mind:

"And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, [and] be merry. But God said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. " Luke 12:16-21

[Hilarion Zerrud]

Hi Gozeta,
Don't you despair, only God nows! Please don't bring us the doomsday.

[Tirananniel]

Jesus had said no man knows the day or the hour of His coming. And if you were firm in your beliefs, would you not be secure in knowing where your future lies? I must say, I sleep very well at night knowing where I am going. I have what we Christians call "eternal security." And I fully agree with you Adelheid. :) When Christ talks about signs, he was not talking about nature, he was talking about the immorality of man kind, just like the times of Noah before the flood.

[Stanislaw]

Tis good that you are strong in your faith. I think worrying about what is to come is pointless, not that I am saying don't worry about you behaviour (as it affects your passage into paradise), but when the end comes it will come, and one must be content with the knowledge that God knows what he is doing!

[Kilini]

Well, I certainly hope Jesus is coming or the world is ending before I die. This satisfies my romantic tendencies.
Heh. Irony.

[baddad]

Ah, yes, man's blessed immortality. Granted by the gods, or God. Yes, we will live on, nothing could be closer to the absolute truth. Energy cannot be destroyed. Energy can only be transformed into another.......well.....form! We will not be leaving the earth. We will be recycled. We will, through a matter of course, have our energy transformed into more concrete matter, broken down into its chemicl parts and redispursed upon the land. We will again be "sewn" as man (generic).We will always be participating in the cycle that is earth's closed system. I feel all warm inside just knowing I'll always be around.......somewhere......as a nice nitrate, a bit of potassium, a nibble of calcium......

[lhaeber]

I prefer baddad's view, I like to think that one day this earth will be a giant recycling bin full of blue boxes and see-thru containers labelled potassium contributors, calcium bin, etc...and maybe I'll be used to fertilize some form of tree genetically engineered by little yellow aliens.

[Adelheid]

The end times will be horrible... Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, floods, wars, are the least of them...There will be one who rises, called the AntiChrist. (He won't call himself that of course) Because he brings "peace" people will flock to him, hailing him, even believing him to be God... He will persecute all the Christians in the world... read the book of Revelations for yourself...watch it unrevel in this world before your very eyes.

The recent Tsunami and the even more recent earthquake are all heralds of the Lord's coming...compared to the coming judgments, these are nothing.

They wouldn't suit your "romantic tendencies" at all, Kilini.

[Scheherazade]

God... He will persecute all the Christians in the world... read the book of Revelations for yourself...watch it unrevel in this world before your very eyes.


So followers of other religions will be safe?

[Stanislaw]

lmao...well going by his discription I suppose so, lol


I think revelations is judgement for the entire planet, and to my knowledge christians shall be judged more harshly.

[Adelheid]

Yes...well, I don't know.

But I encourage you to read Revelations...see what you think of it. Or, if you want an action packed book, read Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkin's bestseller: Left Behind. The sequence of things may not be accurate, (the rapture- some Christians believe that it is after the coming of the AntiChrist, and during the coming of Jesus. While others, (like the 2 authors) believe that it will happen at the start of the end times. It is your interpretation of the Bible.

Back to your question...

The Bible says that everyone will be subjected to put the mark of the beast on either their forehead or right hand, by the AntiChrist. There is another person called the false Prophet. Here is the passage:

"Rev 13:11 I saw another beast come from the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb. It talked like a serpent.
Rev 13:12 The second beast uses all the authority of the first beast in its presence. The second beast makes the earth and those living on it worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 The second beast performs spectacular signs. It even makes fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people.
Rev 13:14 It deceives those living on earth with the signs that it is allowed to do in front of the first beast. It tells those living on earth to make a statue for the beast who was wounded by a sword and yet lived.
Rev 13:15 The second beast was allowed to put breath into the statue of the first beast. Then the statue of the first beast could talk and put to death whoever would not worship it.
Rev 13:16 The second beast forces all people-important and unimportant people, rich and poor people, free people and slaves-to be branded on their right hands or on their foreheads.
Rev 13:17 It does this so that no one may buy or sell unless he has the brand, which is the beast's name or the number of its name.
Rev 13:18 In this situation wisdom is needed. Let the person who has insight figure out the number of the beast, because it is a human number. The beast's number is 666. " Revelation 13:11-18 GW

Whoever doesn't have the mark of the beast will not be allowed to buy or sell. People who refuse to worship this AntiChrist or his statue or perhaps refuse to put the mark on, will be beheaded.

But... it's hard to interpret Revelation right. After all, Jesus said Himself, that no man knows exactly when Jesus is coming again. You must read the book, and judge for yourself.

[Adelheid]

lmao...well going by his discription I suppose so, lol


I think revelations is judgement for the entire planet, and to my knowledge christians shall be judged more harshly.

Revelation is the name of the last book in the Bible. It is about John, Jesus' disciple, receiving a vision from Jesus, who showed him what was to come, so that he could warn the believers and the unbelievers of what is to happen.

People will be judged in the same measure- justly, according to what he or she has done in the body:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10

[Stanislaw]

I am getting my concept from the idea, of the apostles creed, "...He will come again to judge the living and the dead..."

Also, earlier in the newtestament, Jesus tells us of the parrable, of the son who squanders his inheritance, and how upon returning is given a feast, whiole his other brother stayed and worked, yet was given no feast.

This is an idea of the forgiveness of God, and how anyone, regardless of their affiliation, may be saved if they seek forgiveness.

[Stanislaw]

I agree with you on the end of days, I was just making a poor joke at your expense... please forgive my rudeness. :)

[Adelheid]

That's alright... :-) Are you then a Christian?

[Stanislaw]

Yes, I am.

on an aside 'tis a strange bit in The Bibal, where christians are encouraged to spread the word of God, yet should not openly worship in public, I think It is hard to get around no?

What is your opinion on the subject?

[Adelheid]

I don't remember ever reading that we should not worship in public. Sorry. :-) why not? Who said that? It might come back after you mention it...

[IWilKikU]

Am I the only one who notices that Revalation was written by an old man imprissoned in a penal colony who was slowly dieing of poisonous snake bites? To me Revalation is the rammblings of a maniacal, halucinating apostle of a false Christ. People defend its authenticity by comparing the prophecies within to those of Daniel chapter 7. To this I say, 'Know you not that John the Revalator was a Bible scholar and would have known Daniel 7 frontwords and backwords? Why wouldn't he dig up some apocolyptic prophecies at what was obviously the end of his own life? Furthermore, I just attended a lecture 2 weeks ago by the executive director of the American Academy of Mideval History based in Harvard, where he outlined several 'fulfilments' of the prophecies in Rev. Religious radicals throughout the ages have identified major happenings in history from the Crucifixion to the Capture of the Pope by the Holy Roman Emperor as the completion, THE COMPLETION, not the beginning of these prophocies to confirm that we are living in the endtimes right now. And thats been going on since 1300 AD. Revalation *pah*!

Back on topic of Global warming etc... The Christians where I lived in the US (Virginia Bible-belt) believed that Christ would come before we destroy the world, so it was ok to pollute and just trash the place. Toxic waste dumping, o-zone depletion, tropical deforestization, all justified because soon Jesus was going to come and put a big band-aid on the world and make it all better. That to me is just rediculous. I even had a friend who voted for a certain candidate who was less likely to protect the environment because "anyone who will bring about the end of the world sooner is the person Christians should vote for. I'm ready to go to heaven" [I don't want this to turn political so excluded names etc..., the voting reference was just to illustrate my point.

[subterranean]

*Stands and claps her hands*

Bravo Kik..I really like your comment :nod:

[Stanislaw]

eh, there are extremists on all sides of the issue.

[Mililalil XXIV]

I wonder who decided there were only seven signs of the apacolypse?
There are clusters of seven which, taken together, make for remarkably recognizable threads of unfolded, predicted history. There are zillions of other things GOD has never stopped unfolding to HIS Prophets throughout the centuries. These fit into spaces between the clusters of Signs revealed here and there. I will gather and introduce predictions I have in mind.

[Mililalil XXIV]

May I please interject: "If all of the true christians in the world were to disappear due to a "rapture", no one would notice, so few are their numbers. Those who believe them selves to be christians generally are not. Pity to buy into a sold out time share project, only to find that the advertiser has left the building.
Many more are covenanted to the True Religion than keep that Covenant well. There are over a billion souls covenanted in the True Religion, but many are but weeds in a Field of Wheat, and wayward goats in a Flock of Sheep. In the Book of Daniel, in which is foretold the destruction of a world power now the terror of billions, it is also stated that there are but 1 million Holy Clergy, and but 100 million Holy Laity making up the number right before that decisive moment of victory, of the Saints. The Saints that then enjoy the governing of the Kingdom will likely take into their number many times more than they previously numbered up to that point, then - for then the Knowledge of YHWH and of HIS Glory shall fill all the earth as the waters cover all the seas, and, while the White Rider prophesied will have crushed the violence that prevented the spread of the Gospel of True Peace, the mass conversion of souls will occur neither by might, nor by power, but by the SPIRIT OF YHWH, to then be poured out on all flesh, a respite falling for a time upon the Saints. JESUS CHRIST does eventually return bodily at the End of the Age, which Last Day is the Day of Judgement - but, until then, there is much for the Church to accomplish as the Head, and not the tail, lending to nations, and not borrowing, remaining from a certain point always at the top, never again to be tread underneath.

The final antichrist before the Millennium so many interpret so many different ways, in rising up for a short time, first has to take the nations from the Saints by waging war, before he has dominion with which to oppress them one last time for a few years. Since even John in no way indicates that JESUS has bodily returned with the ushering in of the Millennial Sabbath (which, contrary to some opinions, has not yet begun), it is sensible to see herein the longest running fulfilment of Daniel's predictions of the Saints ruling and never losing their rule to the end of time. Those resurrected at that time are not said in the Apocalypse to rule with CHRIST on earth, nor to be present with those Saints that shall then be ruling on earth. Even when satan is released to tempt the nations one last time, there are those he enlists whose Love has grown cold, yet he and this motley crew called Gog and Magog merely surround a thriving Jerusalem, but never get to fulfill their threats against Her or the Saints She shelters. Thus JESUS says to occupy until HE returns. HE will appear to many as in times past, but will not yet return bodily before the Last Day.