mixing fiction with philosophy

[simon]

There are some good books that combine the arts of fiction and philosophy, such as Jostein Gaarder with Sophie's World and the Solitaire Mystery. Or Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintinance, does anyone know of other books that would fall into this makeshift genre? It makes it easier and more intersting to learn of philosophy and spiritual meanderings through the venue of creativity.

[Isagel]

Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, by Bach is a fairytale like story I think you might find interesting. Bach also wrote a book called something like "Handbook for a Messias".

[Basil]

Bach also wrote a book called something like "Handbook for a Messias".
That's Illusions, no?

[Isagel]

Thank you. I did a quick search, it´s : "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah". I only read it in swedish, so I was a bit unsure of the english title.

[mono]

Wow, how strange - I think I just contributed to a thread, regarding the same subject. By copying and pasting, some fiction writers who, I think, incorporate much philosophy in their stories, to name a few: Leo Tolstoy, George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans), D.H. Lawrence, Giovanni Boccaccio, and, of course, Jean-Paul Sartre.
Ethics probably seems the easiest area of philosophy to add to fiction, but I think, also, many of the epic writers and poets have contributed nearly every type of philosophy in thier material, such as those by Homer, Ovid, Virgil, Seneca, Terence, Dante, and many more.

[Basil]

Isagel, what is your signature from?

. . . But I think you're right too, that in the book Illusions, there is a "Handbook for Messiahs" featured in the plot. . .

[Scheherazade]

What about The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran?

[Isagel]

Isagel, what is your signature from?

. . . But I think you're right too, that in the book Illusions, there is a "Handbook for Messiahs" featured in the plot. . .

My signature is from a swedish comic, that I have nailed to my wall.

I remember reading the Bach books as a teenager, and loving them. Today I find them a bit to "new age" in their philosphy, but still beautiful.

[atiguhya padma]

Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker
Aldous Huxley's Brave New World
Hermann Melville's Bartleby the Scrivener
Franz Kafka's Metamorphosis
Hermann Hesse's Steppenwolf
Jean-Paul Sartre's Nausea
J G Ballard's The Unlimited Dream Company

All of these explore broadly philosophical issues.

[baddad]

Ayn Rand: The Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged.

[Scheherazade]

I second AP's Brave New World and Nausea! Very good, thought provoking books.

[subterranean]

There are some good books that combine the arts of fiction and philosophy, such as Jostein Gaarder with Sophie's World and the Solitaire Mystery. Or Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintinance, does anyone know of other books that would fall into this makeshift genre? It makes it easier and more intersting to learn of philosophy and spiritual meanderings through the venue of creativity.


I find Solitaire Mystery a little boring. It's like a copy paste work fro Sophie's World. Don't forget Eco's The Name Of the Roses and Foucalt's Pendulum.

[Jay]

I've read the two Bach books you were talking about and I'm finding them great, suggest those to anyone who haven't read them yet. They're well worth it.

[subterranean]

Bach?

*too short post*

[Jay]

Yes, Richard Bach, and the books would be Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah (shamelessly copied the title from Isagel's post) and Jonathan Livingstone Seagull

[BMW-Guy]

meh. I just like to read philosophy as philosophy, and novels as novels. Sartre wrote a few plays, I believe, and even Orwell is sort of philosophical. But if you primary goal is to learn philosophy, you'll probably learn best by reading actual books by the philosophers, themselves. ;)

[subterranean]

O ok..thanks Jay.

[Basil]

Jay, those two books by Richard Bach are good, but do NOT read his stuff after that, namely The Bridge Across Forever.

That's where he gets all flaky and new age-y . . .

[Jay]

Basil, I was attempting to read The Bridge Across Forever already ;). Somehow the book ended being taken back to the library ;). It was a tad... difficult for me to follow :).
No prob SubT :D

[Basil]

It's almost worth it just to read how he and his wife learn how to astral project . . .

. . . but no, ultimately it's not worth it :D

[Jay]

Ahhh, so that's what they were doing :p ;) hehe (j/k)

[Diceman]

meh. I just like to read philosophy as philosophy, and novels as novels. Sartre wrote a few plays, I believe, and even Orwell is sort of philosophical. But if you primary goal is to learn philosophy, you'll probably learn best by reading actual books by the philosophers, themselves. ;)
I kinda disagree... I find that I prefer reading "philosophical literature" to actual philosophy. Perhaps because actual philosophy is very much in-yer-face, but literature requires one to think about the subtext of the story and see the meaning for oneself. Just a personal preference; YMMV.

[BMW-Guy]

Well, I can appreciate your view. Like you said, though, it all boils down to a matter of preference. ;) ;) :cool:

[subterranean]

True BMW, but take a look a book like Sophies World. It's a good way to introduce philosophy to people who never read about it. I think phylosophy is still considered as "heavy stuffs" and perhaps boring, that's why trying to deliver the ideas of phylosophical thoughts through novel or short story is a great idea (IMO).

[simon]

I suppose it depends on whether or not you want to get the point, if you prefer to learn the concepts and get them down or enjoy the learning process and how they can be taught to you.

Has anybody heard of a book called Ishmael?

[mono]

Has anybody heard of a book called Ishmael?

I read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn last summer, and found it, besides a little fantasy-like, enlightening in a most odd manner. After reading the first few pages, I almost set it down, never to touch it again, but I ended the book glad I completed it.

As for either reading straight philosophy or philosophy engulfed in fiction, I prefer both, depending on the type of philosophy. Ethics, I think, can always have a place in fiction, and seems often better explained there than in non-fiction. However, when the subject turns to metaphysics, mysticism, existentialism, and the like, I usually turn to non-fiction philosophy.

[subterranean]

No, is it a book about Ishamel the other son of Abraham?

[Monica]

in Umberto Eco's 'the island of the day before' there are some philosophical bits, although rather ironical. it's a great read (Eco is always a great read :))

[Taliesin]

No, is it a book about Ishamel the other son of Abraham?

No.

It is about ecology. Ishmael is the name of an ape btw. Really great book, I must say.

[nothingman87]

Some philosophical fiction

Camus-anything; absurdism

Hardy-Jude the Obscure; Follower of Malthus ("Done because we were too many.")

Dostoevsky-anything; roots of existentialism

The transcendentalists

Bellow-anything after Augie March; modern existentialism, see Herzog

Hesse-anything

[subterranean]

Nothingman, when I read that line "Done because we were too many", I wasn't thinking that it somehow related to Malthus. I was thinking something more related to psychological dissapointment.

[simon]

Thanks guys I've got a good list to look into now. I definetly agree about Hesse, being one of the few authors mentioned that I have read widely. I read Ishmael recently and found it worthy of praise. I think I was mainly intrigued by the main character being a talking gorilla. That's what I liked about one of Gaarder's books, Maya, where there is a talking lizard. Wisdom coming from animals is easier and more exciting to take somehow. And Kafka's Metamorphosis is possibly one of my top ten alltime books. The idea of transformation and change and hazy lines of reality is most intriguing.

[nothingman87]

Sub,
I think the line does relate the child's disappointment but also reflects Hardy's views on population, which are in line with Thomas Malthus. Sue Bridehead admits to Father Time the night before the tragedy, that living would be easier if they didn't have the burden of the extra children. This coincides with Malthus's treatise that the growing population would cause mass poverty and a shift in morals. Malthus wrote in a sort of "end of times" tone which is also the tone Hardy takes for Jude the Obscure at the dawn of the twentieth century.