W.B. Yeats - Politically Shallow?

[Rosencrantz]

I've been studying the work of William Butler Yeats, and one of the massive parts of his poetry is politics. Alongside mythology and the importance of art and literature, politics is one of Yeats' main subjects to talk about.

But what exactly is the point he tries to make? The impression I get is that his grasp of politics is much more from an observers than a participants point of view. It seems that all he wants is for everyone to be happy, and to forget all the trouble in the world. Which is a nice sentiment, but a bit superficial, surely? Obviously that uis dumbing it down a lot as Yeats is a very complex poet to understand. But he only ever seems weary of politics, and is very critical of the Irish political system, but is there any depth to it?

Anyway, let me know what you think. I''d be interested to know if you like his poetry, what you think of him etc. Am I missing the point?

[Virgil]

It seems that all he wants is for everyone to be happy, and to forget all the trouble in the world.

Where do you get that? Yeats served in the Irish legislature after Ireland got their independence. A lot of the political poetry I've seen from him has to do with the struggle for independence.

[Charles Darnay]

I must agree with Virgil, I don't think he intended to have people forgetting about politics. I think he wanted to help open people's eyes to the oppression. Look at a poem like "Leda and the Swan" - the consequences of Zeus' raping Leda serves as a powerful metaphor for the problem that is colonization.

Yeats was actually very interesting (and perhaps somewhat hypocritical) in that regard: he saw himself as colonized and his writing as - in a way - post-colonial. And yet he wrote "Byzantium" - which only perpetuates what some of his other poems try to fight against.

[Virgil]

I must agree with Virgil, I don't think he intended to have people forgetting about politics. I think he wanted to help open people's eyes to the oppression. Look at a poem like "Leda and the Swan" - the consequences of Zeus' raping Leda serves as a powerful metaphor for the problem that is colonization.

Yeats was actually very interesting (and perhaps somewhat hypocritical) in that regard: he saw himself as colonized and his writing as - in a way - post-colonial. And yet he wrote "Byzantium" - which only perpetuates what some of his other poems try to fight against.

I agree with what you're sayiing about Yeats' politics, but I do not see any theme of colonization in either Leda and the Swan or either of the Byzantium poems. Certainly none of the three have any direct statement on colonization. I can't even think of an indirect one for the Byzantium poems. As to Leda and the Swan, I guess you can interpret the rape of the swan as colonization, but what makes you think that? One has to read into the poem any such theme, and given that this is the heart of the poem,

A shudder in the loins engenders there
The broken wall, the burning roof and tower
And Agamemnon dead.
I would conclude the poem is about a sequence of events and the ensuing fate. One could write a poem of walking down the street and a reader can read anything into that. Where is any context in this poem that would suggest colonization?

[JBI]

I interpreted the rape of Leda as a metaphor for literature as whole. The poem surely ends as such, with the metaphor to Troy, alluding to Homer, and then the line "and Agamemnon Dead/ Being so caught up" alluding to the Orestia of Aeschylus, essentially saying, poetry and drama are all derivative of a rape, Zeus here I guess symbolizing the artist, and Leda symbolizing the subject.

[Charles Darnay]

I agree with what you're sayiing about Yeats' politics, but I do not see any theme of colonization in either Leda and the Swan or either of the Byzantium poems. Certainly none of the three have any direct statement on colonization. I can't even think of an indirect one for the Byzantium poems. As to Leda and the Swan, I guess you can interpret the rape of the swan as colonization, but what makes you think that? One has to read into the poem any such theme, and given that this is the heart of the poem,

I would conclude the poem is about a sequence of events and the ensuing fate. One could write a poem of walking down the street and a reader can read anything into that. Where is any context in this poem that would suggest colonization?


The Byzantium poems are not examples of colonization but what Edward Said claims is the problem of colonization - that is the depictions of the "exotic east" which creates this Romantic image that is not the truth (more so in Byzantium than Sailing to Byzantium).

As for Leda in the Swan - perhaps I am reading into it, but I don't think it's too farfeched: England as Zeus - the overpowering, sometimes irrational...I always saw the poem as a warning to what could happen with colonization - after the act of rape, Leda gave birth to the fall of Troy and Agamemnon's death - just as there are surly consequences to England's "rape" of Ireland.

[Virgil]

The Byzantium poems are not examples of colonization but what Edward Said claims is the problem of colonization - that is the depictions of the "exotic east" which creates this Romantic image that is not the truth (more so in Byzantium than Sailing to Byzantium).

Well let me understand, because there is exotic it means there is colonization? First of all Yeats is talking about a sixth century city. And he's putting the city in a mythic dimension. It has nothing to do with colonization. Edward Said is just plain wrong.


As for Leda in the Swan - perhaps I am reading into it, but I don't think it's too farfeched: England as Zeus - the overpowering, sometimes irrational...I always saw the poem as a warning to what could happen with colonization - after the act of rape, Leda gave birth to the fall of Troy and Agamemnon's death - just as there are surly consequences to England's "rape" of Ireland.
Ok you can read into it. If you choose to, that's your reading.

[Niamh]

How did i miss this thread?


As for Leda in the Swan - perhaps I am reading into it, but I don't think it's too farfeched: England as Zeus - the overpowering, sometimes irrational...I always saw the poem as a warning to what could happen with colonization - after the act of rape, Leda gave birth to the fall of Troy and Agamemnon's death - just as there are surly consequences to England's "rape" of Ireland.


Ok you can read into it. If you choose to, that's your reading.

Actually Virgil, Charles Darney is on the right track with this. The symbolism of Leda and the Swans is a representation of "Englands "rape" of Ireland". England being Zeus and Leda is Ireland. :) He talks of the birth of a new Ireland that came from the rape of our land during the plantations, and how we fought and struggled with the British empire for centuries,( being the thorn in their side). Maybe he is suggesting that Ireland becoming a free state after centuries of fighting for freedom would be the unravelling of the british empire? :) He could also be hinting at the fact that we had finally freed ourselves from some of englands bonds only to fight amongst ourselves.
************
As for Yeats not being very political. He was. He wrote about things going on in Ireland at a time where no one else really was. He was a member of the first Free State Seanad Éireann. I think he was appointed in 1922 around the time of the Irish civil war. We were still a part of the british empire at this point in our history.

[kingpython]

yeats' politics was indeed complicated. he despised the strikes and demonstrations of 1913 (see the poem of similar name) because he felt that the petty middle class would not be able to achieve anything.

though abhorrent of violence, after the easter risings and martyrdoms of the ringleaders by the british of 1916 he was forced to retract this view as eire moved towards independence. he did so extremely publicly, admitting his mistake in "easter 1916", which took him two years to publish. later, he questioned himself, asking if his writings had brought forth the violence of the easter risings: "did words of mine / send those men to their deaths?".

indeed, he did end up in the irish legislature but this was towards the end of his life. he was a frequent speaker in the house and remained extremely active as a politician.

yeat always admired men of action - parnell, o'leary - but was never really one himself, true. but to argue that his politics is superficial is misguided. yeats was a powerful political writer and outspoken throughout his lifetime. he was always an observer, but that does not make his politics superficial.

[Virgil]

How did i miss this thread?





Actually Virgil, Charles Darney is on the right track with this. The symbolism of Leda and the Swans is a representation of "Englands "rape" of Ireland". England being Zeus and Leda is Ireland. :) He talks of the birth of a new Ireland that came from the rape of our land during the plantations, and how we fought and struggled with the British empire for centuries,( being the thorn in their side). Maybe he is suggesting that Ireland becoming a free state after centuries of fighting for freedom would be the unravelling of the british empire? :) He could also be hinting at the fact that we had finally freed ourselves from some of englands bonds only to fight amongst ourselves.
************
As for Yeats not being very political. He was. He wrote about things going on in Ireland at a time where no one else really was. He was a member of the first Free State Seanad Éireann. I think he was appointed in 1922 around the time of the Irish civil war. We were still a part of the british empire at this point in our history.
I didn't see your post here Niamh until now. Here is the entire poem:

A sudden blow: the great wings beating still
Above the staggering girl, her thighs caressed
By the dark webs, her nape caught in his bill,
He holds her helpless breast upon his breast.
How can those terrified vague fingers push
The feathered glory from her loosening thighs?
And how can body, laid in that white rush,
But feel the strange heart beating where it lies?
A shudder in the loins engenders there
The broken wall, the burning roof and tower[20]
And Agamemnon dead.
Being so caught up,
So mastered by the brute blood of the air,
Did she put on his knowledge with his power
Before the indifferent beak could let her drop?

Now other than the possibility that Yeats is using a metaphor of Leda being raped as a metaphor for England raping Ireland, I just don't see anything else in the poem that would support this. What does Agememnon and the trojan war have to do with England and Irish problems? What does the brute blood (a suggestion of Romantic exuberance) have to do with England/Ireland? Or the knowledge that Leda gains from his Zeus's power? The poem to me centers around the word "engendered." Does England engender Ireland? I would think the Irish would dispute that. Their culture was there way before the English.

Like I said before, you can read it that way, but it doesn't feel very sound to me. But I can be wrong. Does anyone have any biographical support to support that case?

[David R]

yeats' politics was indeed complicated. he despised the strikes and demonstrations of 1913 (see the poem of similar name) because he felt that the petty middle class would not be able to achieve anything.

though abhorrent of violence, after the easter risings and martyrdoms of the ringleaders by the british of 1916 he was forced to retract this view as eire moved towards independence. he did so extremely publicly, admitting his mistake in "easter 1916", which took him two years to publish. later, he questioned himself, asking if his writings had brought forth the violence of the easter risings: "did words of mine / send those men to their deaths?".

indeed, he did end up in the irish legislature but this was towards the end of his life. he was a frequent speaker in the house and remained extremely active as a politician.

yeat always admired men of action - parnell, o'leary - but was never really one himself, true. but to argue that his politics is superficial is misguided. yeats was a powerful political writer and outspoken throughout his lifetime. he was always an observer, but that does not make his politics superficial.

I'd agree with much of what you say python. Yeats' attitude to politics was complex.It was clearly an area of difficulty and ambivalence for him but could it be otherwise for any true poet, who must get to the heart of the matter and not engage in polemics (The Fascination of What's Difficult is one of his poems that comes to mind). In To Ireland of the Coming Times he asks the reader to remember him as being a revolutionary (he was in the I.R.B. at the time) and yet when the Free State emerged after the civil war he made it clear that he found many things wrong with it and he regrets the passing of the old Anglo - Irish ascendency. Yeats did have a problem with Devalera, at one point he called him, "loose lips" but their vision of Ireland was similar - a largely rural population, without the middleclasses which Yeats despised, as you say, Python. Here's the first verse of September 13th, which tells us of the poet's attitude to the middle-classes:

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add halfpence to the pence
And prayer to the shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow to the bone?
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
Its with O'leary in the grave.