Is Internet chat ruining the language?

[AuntShecky]

A recent news story stated that in the U.S. high school students are inserting text messaging abbreviations, "emoticons," and "chat-speak into their formal writing. Some writers and educators are quite alarmed at this phenomenon. James Billingham, the librarian of Congress, worries that chatspeak may bring about "the slow destruction of the basic unit of human thought -- the sentence."

Indeed, can we really think clearly and make critical judgement when our minds are running on fewer than six
cylinders? Are we headed for --as a LA Times columnist writes-- "a sentence-less future of three-letter words?"

Please click and read this article
(http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kolesnikova13-2008may13,0,4111689.story) by Mary Kolesnikova and tell me what you think --
(in complete sentences, of course.)

[jgweed]

The recent PEW report also notes that most students understand the difference between formal writing and texting, and most also realise that the ability to write well is important to their future.

http://www.pewinternet.org/PPF/r/247/report_display.asp

[sprinks]

Oh my goodness this is so true. And it saddens me. Last year students wrote essays and assignments where they put in things like "wtf" and "lol". It's quite simply an atrocity. I strongly dislike the influence of those lolcats mentioned in the article. Sure, they are funny and sometimes cute, but they are having such a bad influence on the way teenagers communicate, there are people walking around thinking that it is right to talk and spell like that!!
And whats even sadder/weirder is that people SAY these things in REAL LIFE CONVERSATIONS. I don't think a day goes by where someone doesn't randomly say "lol" in the middle of a conversation. Sometimes in the right place in the right time it is funny, but otherwise, its just really sad that people are SPEAKING this way.
Oh, and grammar is becoming a lost thing. I remember back in primary school, you were instantly corrected if you dared to say "Me and Bob" because it's "Bob and I", very rarely do I ever hear the correct grammar used in this sense, and pretty much the only time I hear it is when I'm the one saying it!! :rolleyes:
This is yet another thing that separates me from the majority of my generation. I'm 15 right now, and I really don't find lolspeak to be "cool". It's just plain bad English. I'll admit it's alright in chat rooms, but that is where it should stay.

[Virgil]

A recent news story stated that in the U.S. high school students are inserting text messaging abbreviations, "emoticons," and "chat-speak into their formal writing. Some writers and educators are quite alarmed at this phenomenon. James Billingham, the librarian of Congress, worries that chatspeak may bring about "the slow destruction of the basic unit of human thought -- the sentence."

Indeed, can we really think clearly and make critical judgement when our minds are running on fewer than six
cylinders? Are we headed for --as a LA Times columnist writes-- "a sentence-less future of three-letter words?"

Please click and read this article
(http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kolesnikova13-2008may13,0,4111689.story) by Mary Kolesnikova and tell me what you think --
(in complete sentences, of course.)
Oh Aunty I saw that story or perhaps a similar one in the past few weeks and meant to post it here for discussion. I guess i got distracted and never did. I'm glad you did. As to my thoughts, I guess it's natural for students to do that. I find it disconcerting, but you know language naturally evolves. However, if teachers enforce proper style then students who have reduced or failing grades will get the idea real fast. :D

[Nossa]

One of my professors told me before that some students use things like b/c, cuz, w/out and things like that in their final exam papers!
I mean even for someone who's not an English native speaker, it's really annoying, since almost all of us have been learning English for almost 14 or 15 years now, that's more than half of my life, you'd think that someone after so many years in studying a language would learn to appreciate it.

[jgweed]

Count the number of smilies.
LOL

[sprinks]

The recent PEW report also notes that most students understand the difference between formal writing and texting, and most also realise that the ability to write well is important to their future.

http://www.pewinternet.org/PPF/r/247/report_display.asp

This was interesting to read as it is not the case for most teenagers I know. Keep in mind when I say this that of course the amount of teenagers I know are very few in comparison to the number of them in the world. The majority (not all) of them do not have any difference, or know any difference, between formal writing and texting, emailing etc. And this is most likely because they don't often need to use formal writing. Their level of English class at school does not require them to have such a standard of writing that is all that different to the way they would comment on MySpace, for example. And for most of them still, they do not actually do the work and end up on MySpace or Facebook anyhow!! So it's no wonder that these students that I speak of have no distinction between formal writing and well, casual writing, because they aren't often required to use formal writing in the way they used to be!

[Nossa]

So it's no wonder that these students that I speak of have no distinction between formal writing and well, casual writing, because they aren't often required to use formal writing in the way they used to be!

I agree that the language used on Myspace or Facebook is different from that of formal talking. But aren't there certain standards of writing say an exam paper or an essay for college? I mean I do use a different language when I'm talking to friends on MSN or Facebook, but it's a whole different thing when I'm writing something academic.

[Shalot]

Of course kids are going to incorporate text speak or lol speak into their papers. Then, teachers can do another lesson on formal writing. I think it's silly to say that internet speak is ruining the language. I bet my old linguistics teacher is loving this new textspeak and is preparing his own article on it. He described himself as more descriptive, rather than prescriptive, so it's unlikely that his article would have any KMN KMN in it. Besides, what is the author of this article complaining about? She's an educator - textspeak just gives her more to do. Instead of making fun of high school students, maybe she should teach them...

I can see where she is coming from, just the tone of the article struck me as somewhat snooty. But, I guess that's necessary if you're going to get it through to students that LOL wouldn't go over in a resume cover letter, for example.

[Nossa]

I can see where she is coming from, just the tone of the article struck me as somewhat snooty. But, I guess that's necessary if you're going to get it through to students that LOL wouldn't go over in a resume cover letter, for example.

lol..I never thought this would be a task that would need teaching. But sometimes it's about the language itself, not the new 'internet' language as they call it. I remember that our novel professor told us at the beginning of this term that in last term's novel exam papers, someone wrote that people read Dickens because he's a nice guy :lol:

[Virgil]

I must say since I've been on lit net that even in my professional emails I get the urge to put in a LOL or a smilie face. Hahaha, I don't think it would go over too well. Can you imagine how I'm talking about the stress analysis of something and I put in a grin smilie face. :D So far I've been able to resist the urge, but one day I know I'm going to give in and really look like a fool. :D :D

[amanda_isabel]

:) lol virgil.

in Philippine text messaging, we've got the joke, "wer n u?" "d2 n me!" (where na you, dito na me, or in English, where are you? i'm here already!) but most fo the time people (around here anyway) are aware of the difference between text/internet speak and academe-educational-formal speak... some just probably give into their urges more now... but they're aware of it. i guess the policy should just be reinforced more strictly, that's all.

as far as internet sepak ruining the language, i dont think so.. would it be right to say that internet speak is a subculture (or subspecies, or whatever technical term should be here)?

[Shalot]

lol..I never thought this would be a task that would need teaching. But sometimes it's about the language itself, not the new 'internet' language as they call it. I remember that our novel professor told us at the beginning of this term that in last term's novel exam papers, someone wrote that people read Dickens because he's a nice guy :lol:

Why wouldn't it need teaching? Some people really are at a loss when it comes to writing and I think it's a good topic for the class room if the kids in the class are turning in LOL JSYK OMG WTF papers. Maybe by high school they should know better, but of course it would need to be taught at some grade level. Some people are not enthusiastic about writing or literature and I don't think people should look down upon other people who aren't drawn to literature and writing and therefore struggle with writing exercises.

[Nyu001]

This remind me to an investigative essay I did about orthographic mistakes in the graphic design area(Meaning billboards, magazines, brochures, etc). It was for my class of creative communication in the college. Also I needed to take 20 photographies of orthographic mistakes. I touched a bit the are of chat including the educational factor plus the social, between others.

[grace86]

While I find it absolutely annoying to receive emails and such without capitalization, spelling errors or crazy abbreviations (which is more of a peeve on my part in regards to the emails), I do not think that text speech will ruin the English language. The language will probably change because I don't think any language remains the same; it will evolve to fit the standards and uses of the people speaking it.

That being said, I think that the language changes to reflect the culture. We are living in a time where everything has to be faster. We can show this in our letters and texts, and while people think that this will break down our system of language, we still need some sort of structure in our minds to formulate our thoughts. I am not saying we all think in sentences, in fact I think we do think rather fragmented at times, but I don't agree with the idea that altering our verbal and written communication will alter our mental system of formulating thoughts because I think we all adhere to certain rules...and these are not exactly conscious.

Language is constantly changing because we are constantly changing and there are so many cultural and social aspects impacting our language. For those of you in the urban areas of the states, take for example ubonics. While it is used all the time within a certain social and racial group, it is recognized most of the time that it is not a standard use of the language. The problem is in fact, as mentioned before me, when it enters the class rooms and essays and other professional or formal settings.

What is terribly upsetting to admit is that while most of us native English speakers have been taught our own language since we were first put in school, there are so many people who lack the interest or do not see the importance of understanding it. I understand that some people have a terribly hard time in English courses because it does have so many rules, but there is a large majority that don't see the point in learning the rules. Putting such things as lol or b/c into an essay is terrible, and I think that a professor has every right to mark that paper up to show the proper uses.

An English teacher should never be out of a job, after teaching the material once for people to understand it, it always seems necessary for the teacher to re-hash the material. Inside the classroom and professional settings, there is a definite prescriptive and standard of English, and there has to be otherwise there would be no order and as one teacher put it...chaos. But outside of the classroom all of us are using an un-standardized version of English and we can all understand each other perfectly fine.

So to put everything very short, I think text speech and lack of grammar is horrible in itself, especially when it comes to putting it in an essay or professional setting. But it should not ruin the English language. I think the only thing that can be done about it is to have diligent English teachers seek out these abbreviations and correct them...it is their right as a professor isn't it? I think all these changes come about culturally: society keeps up the idea that things need to go faster and this obviously reflects on our language, and I think it slips in papers and professional settings because society is getting less professional and emphasizing the business casual concept. Language, whether standard or not, should be looked at descriptively...every dialect, language or deviation has some sort of rules unconsciously recognized at times by the speaker, and languages after all, are constantly evolving.

But you could consider this all junk, it is just an opinion I have. Don't get me wrong, I do use smilies and abbreviations all the time, just usually at the right time.

Hopefully this comes out coherently, writing sentence by sentence from a work computer isn't the easiest. :D :D :p

[papayahed]

Maybe I'm too old to learn the new tricks. This weekend some friends kept texting me and it took forever to respond. I just couldn't bring myself to write "ur" and .....I can't think of anything else..

[AuntShecky]

Even though some students may parrot back the notion that there is a difference between formal and informal writing, not every one practices it. On the other hand, students who smoothly move back and forth between each realm are thought to be adept at the art of "code-switching" which is a sophisticated intellectual skill.

I still think that the abbreviated methods of electronic discourse may have a deleterious effect upon critical thinkiing skills. It bothers me that very soon instant messaging may transform itself into "instant thought." Not only are complete sentences on the endangered species list; so are vowels!



Oh, and grammar is becoming a lost thing. I remember back in primary school, you were instantly corrected if you dared to say "Me and Bob" because it's "Bob and I", very rarely do I ever hear the correct grammar used in this sense, and pretty much the only time I hear it is when I'm the one saying it!! :rolleyes:


Yes, this is true, except there is also a phenomenon known as "overcorrection." The "Bob and I" has been pounded into kids' brains so much that they still make grammatical mistakes in sentences calling for the objective case. For instance, "The teacher failed Bob and I" should be
"The teacher failed Bob and me."

[sprinks]

Yes, this is true, except there is also a phenomenon known as "overcorrection." The "Bob and I" has been pounded into kids' brains so much that they still make grammatical mistakes in sentences calling for the objective case. For instance, "The teacher failed Bob and I" should be
"The teacher failed Bob and me."

Yeah, very true.
We learnt so much at primary school, but the whole way of teaching and learning at high school is so different, which means that the things we learnt before are now being forgotten, because the content of what we are learning is different, I really know what I'm trying to say but I really think I'm not saying it right!! Anyhow, like at least in the case of the people I know at high school, like in primary school we learnt what was being analysed, like verbs and nouns and punctuation etc. but now in high school we learn how to analyse, so all the rest is becoming slightly more forgotten because it's not being used. As I said, this is just a thought, from my observations. I'm in year 11 now, and I can't use punctuation properly in writing anymore. Give me some examples where some are wrong and one is right and I can tell you the right one, but when writing a story or essay I just can't get it right. And part of the reason is because of chat-speak, because it has completely disregarded punctuation. Which annoys me now because in conversations "I'll" becomes "ill". It's completely different!!!:flare:

[jgweed]

At one time, it seems that the mechanics of spelling, punctuation, and correct grammar were instilled by educational institutions as a matter of course until they became so habitual that later one could concentrate on precision and elegance in composition, in expressing adequately what one wanted to say. I am not sure that this is precisely the case now, since students demand only that which is entertaining and attention-getting in a way that learning rules and procedures is not.
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I have always thought that there was a connexion between writing and thinking, and that clear writing was an aid to clear thinking as much as any course in logic.
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In this sense, the defense of formal writing is also a defense of thinking, and certainly thinking is critical in today's axial age if for no other reason than so much of language and word-definitions has been politicised and "dulled-down."
*
To travel the blogosphere is to despair. I suggest that what one reads THERE as written and published writing should send a clear warning---far more than student lapses into textspeak and smileyville--- that the republic of letters is in danger.

[AuntShecky]

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At one time, it seems that the mechanics of spelling, punctuation, and correct grammar were instilled by educational institutions as a matter of course until they became so habitual that later one could concentrate on precision and elegance in composition, in expressing adequately what one wanted to say. I am not sure that this is precisely the case now, since students demand only that which is entertaining and attention-getting in a way that learning rules and procedures is not.

Yeah. I don't know why administrators do not include grammar in the curricula these days. Up until very recently--in the US anyway -- teacher training concentrated on the "how" and not the "what." I wouldn't be surprised if many teachers aren't really experts on the subjects which they profess to teach, let alone basic English grammar. About a decade ago, I remember a group of teachers saying that they don't bother with teaching students the various parts of speech and how to parse sentences (!)

I have always thought that there was a connexion between writing and thinking, and that clear writing was an aid to clear thinking as much as any course in logic.
*

Yes, of course there is a connection. I defy anyone to try to "think" without using words!

In this sense, the defense of formal writing is also a defense of thinking, and certainly thinking is critical in today's axial age if for no other reason than so much of language and word-definitions has been politicised and "dulled-down."

Thinking is "hard." Some kids think better than others. Heaven forbid we should do anything to harm the little ones' "self-esteem." To travel the blogosphere is to despair. The way to make everybody equal, and to make sure that "everybody wins" and gets a certificate is to level the playing field, lower the pitching mound, "dumb down."

To travel the blogosphere is to despair. I suggest that what one reads THERE as written and published writing should send a clear warning---far more than student lapses into textspeak and smileyville--- that the republic of letters is in danger.

No just the republic of letters, the republic period.

[AuntShecky]

Addendum to "overcorrection":
I want to throw a brick through the TV screen every time
I hear an announcer say the word "often" The word often is pronounced "offen" We don't say "hasten" or "listen," do we? So why pronounce the silent "t"? Maybe they think it's got something to do with not dropping one's "g's" at the end of gerunds and participles:
"goin'" "gettin'." Politicians drop their "g's" to make voters think they're regular folks.

Any why doesn't anyone know how to say "February"?

[jgweed]

They are too busy reading "FACTOIDS!"

And another thing: less does not mean fewer.
And another thing: continue on

Given the amount of time people spend reading blogs or watching TV filled with such examples, it is little wonder they pick up "bad habits" from the company they keep, and not just speaking and writing, but thinking also. Consider the current confusion that results in calling evolution a "belief."

"...the republic period."
Not that anyone reads Jefferson or Madison any more, but if they were to undertake such an endeavor, they would realise that a democracy works best if the citizens are well-educated. But more and more it seems that democracy will defeat itself by extending democracy to education, writing, and thinking by doing away with the standards that has taken civilisation centuries to develop while they proclaiming, "Everything is just opinion, and everyone has a right to their opinions." Standards are now a matter of majority vote, and it is only a matter of time before it votes to abolish standards completely.
Or: one could take the opposite view, that what is happening is the further division of the citizens into two nations (as Disraeli wrote, but for different reasons): an "educated" elite and the herd. This, too, will destroy the possibilities of democracy that were envisioned when the Declaration of Independence was proclaimed.

[Dori]

A recent news story stated that in the U.S. high school students are inserting text messaging abbreviations, "emoticons," and "chat-speak into their formal writing. Some writers and educators are quite alarmed at this phenomenon. James Billingham, the librarian of Congress, worries that chatspeak may bring about "the slow destruction of the basic unit of human thought -- the sentence."

Indeed, can we really think clearly and make critical judgement when our minds are running on fewer than six
cylinders? Are we headed for --as a LA Times columnist writes-- "a sentence-less future of three-letter words?"

Please click and read this article
(http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kolesnikova13-2008may13,0,4111689.story) by Mary Kolesnikova and tell me what you think --
(in complete sentences, of course.)

Hmm. . .

In communicating via AIM, I use a combination of both "textspeak" and regular language. Sometimes I use "haha" rather than "lol", for instance (this is perhaps not the best example as "haha" is not so much a word as an utterance). That's for the sake of variety though. Also, in starting a conversation, I usually use one of the following: "what's up", "what's happenin'", "how's it goin'", "how are you" (rarely, though, "how r u"). I vary my language to give the impression that I am not a robot, but a human being.

My peers, those whom I "speak" to on AIM, use "textspeak" a lot more than me, but not as much as I've seen from others.

My opinion on it? It's useful, and it does not affect the way I write formally at all. I have never been tempted to use "textspeak" in a formal writing. Therefore, based on my particular experience, I believe the problem is the teacher, not the student. The use of "textspeak" in formal writing should be penalized, severely perhaps. A lack of understanding in let's say an essay would certainly not make for a good grade. Good parenting (I suppose the responsibility falls on them too, heaven forbid. . .) should be able to correct these problems by punishing their children when they receive unsatisfactory grades. Good grades don't necessarily need to be rewarded; they should be expected. This is besides the point, but I usually joke around with my grandma (she rewards me with money when I get good grades) when she is late with her rewards. I say something like, "I need the money soon or my good behavior won't be reinforced!" Just a joke, mind you. ;)

Anyways, it is the responsibility of the parent and the teacher to ensure that kids (or "teenagers" as they like to be called) understand the difference between formal language and "textspeak".

Here's something of an after-thought: I think a fair punishment for the use of "textspeak" in formal writing is being grounded from the internet and/or thier cell phone for a period of time (depending on how much "textspeak" is used).

[wilbur lim]

Using improper language and grammar can inevitably affect one's knowledge piecemeal and even use that in subsequent communications to his/her peers,teachers,parents and luminaries.They would not comprehend at all,and I must confess that abbreviations should not be wholly learnt,it would not be fecund at working.

[wilbur lim]

Oh my goodness this is so true. And it saddens me. Last year students wrote essays and assignments where they put in things like "wtf" and "lol". It's quite simply an atrocity. I strongly dislike the influence of those locates mentioned in the article. Sure, they are funny and sometimes cute, but they are having such a bad influence on the way teenagers communicate, there are people walking around thinking that it is right to talk and spell like that!!


This is a deja vu to descry,students dare to use abbreviations in front of teachers,and making them infuriated.:flare::flare:

[ClaesGefvenberg]

Please click and read this article
(http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kolesnikova13-2008may13,0,4111689.story) by Mary Kolesnikova and tell me what you think --
(in complete sentences, of course.)I think I disapprove... of textspeak, that is. As I already mentioned in the Opinions about text-messaging language (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32834) thread, I accept that a language is not static, and thus will keep changing, but I draw the line where the message no longer is comprehensible.

/Claes

[Poetess]

KMN!!! :lol:
I have a problem with that to. My students (or those I tutor) use such abbreviations when they`re practicing essays, and so does their sister. They commonly use "cuz" instead of Because.
They (those who use these) think using such abbreviations make them open to the world and the language. And when they are asked to forget about these abbreviations and use the full word, they try to guess how Because is written "is it B E C O U S E"?
And so many other worlds.

What drove me insane is once someone told me "tsokke"..


People, :crash: :flare: :crash: WTH is tsokke? (it means, What the hell is "it`s okay") :)

So Tsokke turned out to be it`s okay :)

Looking at the ING form, with the missing G, like" I`m goin home" or "i`m doin...". Now the words with the ING of their roots are of the same destiny as the progressive verbs`, like "somethin" instead of something.

I myself don`t leave those I tutor talking to me this "broken" English online, They either write it full and get an answer, or spend their time blabbering alone. So they decided to talk to me well, I guess.

[blazeofglory]

No I do not think so. It is helping rather.