Courtesy And High Morals -- The Fruits Of Prayer.

[YALASH]

Peace be upon you!

A great effort is necessary to attract the grace of God. God accepts the struggle of His servants and blesses them and gives them the strength to do acts of His pleasure.

To make positive change in the self and to get spiritual nearness to God, Prayer / Salat is the vehicle. Prayer restrains (one) from indecency and manifest evil.....(46:29 , Quran)

Sometimes, we observe some people who offer Prayer do not show good attitude toward others. One may think what is benefit of Prayer then?

Fault is not with the Prayer / Salat. Meeting the conditins of Prayer are very important, as pointed out by Ahmadiyya Caliph. In the early part of (46:29) it is commanded : Establish the Prayer..... meaning fulfill the conditions of Prayer.The holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him and all prophets) explained: When you stand to offer Salat (Prayer) bear in mind as if you are seeing Allah or at least think Allah is watching you.

Thought that God is keeping check on me during my Prayer and daily chores makes one very careful in conduct. Then courtesy and high morals begin to sprout and soon grow into a fruitfull tree of peace. Prayer and morals go hand in hand.

Alongwith Prayer other essentials are giving charity to ward off distresses, treating others with kindness, safegaurding the trusts, fulfilling the commitments, talking twistless truth, avoiding jealousy which burns human from within, staying away from absurdities of modern time which drop the human in the lap of Satan.To achieve these virtues, the institution of ahamdiyya caliphate is the timely blessing of God. May everyone continue to get peace.

[togre]

What if I can't? What if I don't?

I strive to earn God's favor, to do right to my fellow man, to have high morals.

Is that enough? Is the striving alone going to please God? Surely not, the government doesn't care if you try to keep the laws, it cares whether you do or don't. Is God more slipshod than the government?

Even if, as is often the case, I avoid doing outward evil, what of the evil in my heart, my desires to have what is not mine, my anger and hatred, my lust, my despair? Is God so shallow that he cares only of outward? Can God be fooled just by going through the motions?

No, I am sinful. I am evil. I am by my nature and by my actions and by my thoughts an enemy of God. The only thing I can attract from God is anger and fury and just punishment.


But here's the kicker.

While I was still a sinner, still his enemy, God loved me and had mercy on me. He didn't just ignore my sin. (He's just, how could he?) No, he worked out a marvelous plan to cleanse me and forgive me. He sent Jesus, his own Son, True God, to this earth. Jesus took on mortal flesh, lived a perfect life (just like was demanded of me but which I could not render). Instead of reward for that life, Jesus suffered. He was nailed to the cross and as he died, the worst suffering of all he bore--God saw not his sinless, holy Son--God saw me, my sin nailed there. And God turned his face from his Son. God punished sin and Christ suffered hell.

The result? The debt is payed. I (you are!) am forgiven. God has declared me his child by grace, because of his undeserved, unearned love for me.

As result, having been saved already, as a joyful attempt to say thank you, I strive to live upright and morally. I strive to love and forgive. I pray, bringing my joys and sorrows to the loving Father, trusting that the one who has done so much for me already, will continue to hear and answer, guard and protect.

[Wintermute]

Then courtesy and high morals begin to sprout and soon grow into a fruitfull tree of peace. Prayer and morals go hand in hand.

Nonsense. You offend me by implying that I have no morals if I don't pray to some entity that refuses to show its self. All of the things you've mentioned including courtesy and high morals require no supernatural sky daddy watching over us--they only require common sense and a commitment to what a Christian would call The Golden Rule.

I'm agnostic, so I could be wrong, but in this instance I'm fairly certain of my words. Everyone has a right to pray as they will, but when you start passing laws for me, based on you beliefs, that's when I protest and protest loudly.

Peace,
Doug

[Nightshade]

surrah 107 ayahs 4 and 5.




Its all very well saying that , but theres alot more to it than that, its not the act of prayer that helps people but the state of mind that either envokes the prayer. Good morals could be said to lead to prayer, and they are not mutually exclusive, there are thousands and millions of perfectly good morally soiund people hwo do not pray to the same god or in fact any god.
"live as if you live forever, pray as if you die today" isnt that the saying? You can link directly benifits of prayer to heavenly rewards and if you belive it to reaping rewards from God while you are alive, but prayer and a persons behaviour, no. Prayer is about giving back to god and acknowledging Him its not about the prayers behaviour when they are praying.

Although admittedly if you do belive in God and belive that He is watching you all the time the person might reconcider 'immorality' but then again that belief does not originate in prayer and prayer is more likly a result of that belief.

[togre]

its not the act of prayer that helps people but the state of mind that either envokes the prayer.


I have to disagree with the second half of the statement. I am not helped by the state of mind invoked through prayer. I am helped by Almighty God who hears and graciously answers my prayer.

I know he does this because he has given me the tremendous promise: Call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver you and you will honor me (Psalm 50:15).

I trust this promise because he has shown himself to be reliable and loving in the past (see his response to my sins above).

I trust his answer is for my good, even when it isn't what I thought I wanted/needed, because he is loving and will give me only what is good, and he is wise/all-knowing and knows my needs and how to sustain and strengthen me better than I myself know.

[Nightshade]

Sorrymy statment isnt clear, I didnt mean that prayer dosnt help people, tht God wont answer it, what I meant
is that the act of
prayer and I use that prase deliretly doesnt help people b better people unless they are praying to be better people but then it can be argued that the desie to be better to 'live in the lightof God' is what cases you to both pray and become beter and live n the life of God.
I mean are you sayuing that god wont help you wont guide you unless you ask in a certain formt? That He is not listening all the time? The benifts the OP is attributing to prayer is IMO not the result of a series of actions but of a state of mind.

[Wintermute]

I know he does this because he has given me the tremendous promise: Call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver you and you will honor me (Psalm 50:15).

I trust this promise because he has shown himself to be reliable and loving in the past (see his response to my sins above).

For many years--many years--I prayed daily, often many times a day. Nothing, nada, zip. How is it that you (and others) seem to have a direct line to the big guy, but others like me seem to always get a busy signal? What am I doing wrong? Please do not tell me to read the bible or any other ancient text. Tell me, in your words, how I can be 100% certain that my prayers are being heard and acted upon, please.

[YALASH]

And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: I am near, I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way. (Quran verse 187, chapter 2)


Acceptance of prayer is proved by valid instances as part of the law of nature and God sets up living models in every age.

[togre]

We walk by faith and not by sight. Yet ours is not a blind faith. We know the One in whom we trust and we know He is faithful.

If I gave you the impression that prayer was a cosmic vending machine, where you insert a prayer and <poof> you get what you want, I apologize. That is not how prayer works, as you pointed out.

But I know what God has done for me/for all people. I know he did not spare his own Son, but sent him to suffer and die in my/your place. He promised to do this. He did this. He has demonstrated himself to me to be loving, powerful, forgiving and trustworthy.

This trustworthy, faithful God tells me, invites me!, to bring before him my cares and worries, my struggles and joys. He attaches the promise that he will hear and answer. Should I doubt the God who has done so much, who has proven himself so trustworthy? I am unable to.

So why then don't things appear when I pray? Why do troubles still haunt me? Why does life still sting, sin still ensnare and death still stalk me?

It is not because God is untrue to his promise. It is not that you weren't good enough, sincere enough or didn't prayer hard enough.

God did answer your prayers, but maybe not as you expected or desired. Maybe he didn't give you the blessing you desired, but gave you a different. Maybe he didn't take away the suffering you faced, but offered you strength to endure. Maybe what you thought would be beneficial, he knew would be detrimental.

How can I say this for sure? How can I trust God when I can't always see action and result?

Look at the cross. There He suffered for me/you. There he showed his love.

He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Romans 8:32

[Wintermute]

I know he did not spare his own Son, but sent him to suffer and die in my/your place. He promised to do this. He did this. He has demonstrated himself to me to be loving, powerful, forgiving and trustworthy.

He (it) is omnipotent! (I'll use the masculine, but it bothers me to do so) He already knew he was going to send his son to get nailed to the cross before he even created the universe! That does not seem to be loving and forgiving to me. I'm sorry, but it seems silly. I in no way mean to disrespect your beliefs. I'm an agnostic, and as such I sort of waive my right to argue anything--because of my uncertainty. However, some things just seem so silly to me. Please forgive me if I have offended.

Doug

[hellsapoppin]

-- Quran verse 187, chapter 2 --


Are there other Islamic books or writings that influenced your beliefs? Or are your beliefs exclusively shaped by the Koran?

[YALASH]

Dear hellsapoppin: Peace to you! Thanks for your continous curiosity.To respond to you humbly, plz allow me to say: In Islam it was forecasted that in latter days a reformer would appear to bring the things back to peace ( just as a messiah was forecasted for jews). Ahmadiyya muslims believe such reformer has come in subcontinent india in 1889. Now about 200 million in 189 countries under 5th caliph of the late reformer, they practice peaceful islam and follow quran and believe that in latter days prayer, moral-practice and pen ONLY is to be used to help islam (they suffer persecution at many places w.thepersecution.org). The reason is that, in early days, people tried swords to finish emerging islam and in this era methods are changed. Currently physical wars are political ones and no one in world use force against muslims not to pray, though part of media is being used as sword! To know ahmadiyya, plz see w.alislam.org and w.ahmadiyya.ca and w.mta and you can meet them nearby you for more discussions finding address at bottom @ alislam.org ...regards

[hellsapoppin]

Thank you Yalash! I did look up those sites and have much to learn!!

Peace ...

[Redzeppelin]

For many years--many years--I prayed daily, often many times a day. Nothing, nada, zip. How is it that you (and others) seem to have a direct line to the big guy, but others like me seem to always get a busy signal? What am I doing wrong? Please do not tell me to read the bible or any other ancient text. Tell me, in your words, how I can be 100% certain that my prayers are being heard and acted upon, please.

This is a difficult topic - for everybody, because nobody gets all their prayers answered - nobody! Even Jesus prayed that he would not have to go through the horror of the crucifixion, but did end by saying "nonetheless, not my will but thine." The best analogy I can come up with is parent and child. Children have an idea as to what is best for them, which doesn't always align with what the adult knows to be best for them. As such, adults often say "no" to things that children feel they absolutely should get. As adults, it is difficult for us to accept that our position to God is similar (except we have an even bigger gulf between our understanding and God's than that that exists between child and parent). God's primary goal is not that we be happy, but that we be holy. That said, He will not necessarily give us that which will make us happy if it is not going to contribute to making us holy - just like when I say "no" to my child who may want me to pay for the newest pricey gizmo rather than working to earn the money himself (which most people would say is part of character development). The unfortunate thing is that God doesn't always say "yes"; sometimes He says "wait," sometimes "you need to grow a bit first," and sometimes He says "no." Like children, we won't always understand the answer.


He (it) is omnipotent! (I'll use the masculine, but it bothers me to do so) He already knew he was going to send his son to get nailed to the cross before he even created the universe! That does not seem to be loving and forgiving to me. I'm sorry, but it seems silly. I in no way mean to disrespect your beliefs. I'm an agnostic, and as such I sort of waive my right to argue anything--because of my uncertainty. However, some things just seem so silly to me. Please forgive me if I have offended.

Doug

It is loving to send Christ to die because that sacrifice freed all humanity from the death sentence that sin had conferred upon it. Even we here on earth acknowledge the noble heroics of sacrificing one's life to save others - God's love for us prompted Him to sacrifice Himself (since Christ, God and the Holy Spirit are all "God" per se).

God felt the risk of human rebellion was worth it to give us freedom to love. He provided the solution to the problem that wasn't His to solve.

[NikolaiI]

For many years--many years--I prayed daily, often many times a day. Nothing, nada, zip. How is it that you (and others) seem to have a direct line to the big guy, but others like me seem to always get a busy signal? What am I doing wrong? Please do not tell me to read the bible or any other ancient text. Tell me, in your words, how I can be 100% certain that my prayers are being heard and acted upon, please.

"God helps those who help themselves"? Sort of kidding.
I don't know, I don't have all the answers, but. . . all I can do is ask you what you think of reality. . . if it wasn't for the writings of mystics, if it wasn't for the faith of people such as Emerson. . . George Harrison. . . I mean, people say Buddhists are atheists, but I've read several of more-famous masters talking about God. . . I don't get why people say this when the masters of Buddhism believe in God. . . but anyway, what convinced me of God originally was Plato, that God is the source. . . and if you believe that there is a higher reality, then the only question is of conscience, inconscience, or superconscience.

So, yeah, I needed the faith of outstanding persons to become a person of faith myself. . . now I am one I have faith, and I can tell you it has made a great change in my life. . anyway, just some thoughts.

God does answer prayers, but we must have faith. Anyway I do not prefer Christian God, sometimes it is a cover for mean people to be ignorant. I think faith in God is a good thing, but everything must be in order-- I mean teachers need to be held to a high standard. For instance, there is no reason that we need to kill animals to eat, but most Christians eat meat. The commandment in the Bible says "thou shalt not kill" but eating meat causes great, needless, suffering. This is not meant as a judgment. . . I am just mentioning it as I think no living being should be needlessly killed. Powerlessness is not an excuse to kill something. Eh?

Anyway you don't need to have the same beliefs as any other person. In fact it's best you have your own beliefs, because who has it 100% right? But if you study with an open mind-- and I mean a really open, faithful, receptive attitude-- all the mystics, or. . . those who stand out for you, then you ought to see, by my reckoning, that their language is basically the same. So many are learned sages or perfect mystics trying to bring down the knowledge they have from Knowledge into our human words. . . the parallels are truly astounding. And the beliefs I have, well, of course I value my ability to determine the truth, and I think no one should undermine others' in this regard, yet they do, and it is one of the major hindrances to humanity-- anyhow, I am convinced they are true because. . . well, . . .how to explain? So, good luck, and I am sure all illusions will be cleared for you . . . I aplogize this wasn't so succinct.

[blazeofglory]

One thing I can not agree is I am the servant of God. God is my equal. Or to put differently God permeates all and I permeate God.