Eternal Life

[Bruce Bradley]

I have pondered this thought and the more I think about it I think the gift of life is eternal. I believe that when a man and a woman have a child, the child carries on their legacy. Therefore giving them eternal life, I also believe that the holy grail is a woman's uterus. I also believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again. I believe if you live your life in a true Christian way that you will find heaven on earth. It seems so tough until you do it. Just try walking around smiling for one day and see how people react. Most will smile back and probably say something to you. The ones that don't are preoccupied with there own problems. Namely, hell on earth.

It is the ones that protest the Christian way that can't be content with life on earth. People who worship the dollar can't have enough. People who worship another will be led astray. If people have family and do what it takes to provide for them, they are always content. It is when you are obsessed with your possessions and let them become the priority then there is no one to care of the children. As individuals we have control over supply and demand. It is our demand that drives the supply. Companies charge what we are willing to pay. This has been proved time and time again.

I don't know if there is heaven or it is here on earth. It is like I said children are our eternal life irregardless. Please let me know your opinion on this.

[Sweets America]

Hi Brucee,

First, I am not tempted at all by the idea of eternal life, that greatly scares me. What reassures me is the idea that I will die someday and that it will be the end, the real end. Now it might not be the end, I don't know but I would prefer if it were. That does not mean I am depressed :D , just that I don't wish to live eternally.

Also, I am not tempted either by the Christian way of life. I don't want to be subjected to any kind of God who would threaten me that if I commint sins I won't go to Heaven. I prefer being my own God and being free as much as I can, believing in myself rather than putting the destiny of my soul in the hands of someone else.

Actually I'm not sure what you mean by living in a Christian way. I am puzzled about this Christian way. If being Christian is being kind, charitable and all that, then it sounds nice, but well, that's not always how it is. Because if being Christian is enclosing oneself into a dogma and rejecting those who don't believe and who are different, homosexuals or else, then I certainly don't want to be Christian.

I agree with what you say about possessions though.

But well, about Heaven, I'm not searching for that, be it on this planet or after my death. I'm not sure I'm searching for anything in particular, other than enjoying the moment. Emptiness is good too.:)

[DapperDrake]

Well its an interesting question really isn't it, what constitutes the continuation of life anyhow. The more I think about it the more I think that "life" is an illusion created by memories.

To illustrate my point hypothetically consider a teleportation device, or a stasis booth - the sorts of thing you get in sci-fi. If you deconstruct someone molecularly (is that a word :p ) and reconstruct them somewhere else are they the same person? or have you killed someone and created a clone? How about if you re-materialise the person twice... which one is the original person? or are they both the original person or are neither of them the original person? All three options make a mockery of the idea of continuous life.

If you think about it whats different between someone whos been dematerialised and rematerialised and someone who hasn't? if the process is perfect then it would be impossible to tell the difference... There would be no difference. So from moment to moment are we just a concatenated string of "self" deaths? is that so different from ordinary death?
Am I the same person who got out of my bed this morning?

I just tend not to think about it to be honest :D

[Bruce Bradley]

Thanks Sophie,
I can always look to you give it to me, I try not to direct anything at anyone. If I write something it is a thought and nothing more. Now if I was in power somewhere look out it could be law. I read these post and so many are wondering about this subject so I thought I would bring a fresh prospective to it. We are all humans and humans must die at sometime and if we have children a part of us lives on after we are gone, thus makes eternal life. I threw in the thing about the grail to make people think, plus I saw it in that movie The Devinci Code. I liked what they said. There is no way to worry about life after death because you can only find out when your dead, and the dead is not talking.

When I say Christian ways I mean to live a complete and good life. It is not Christian to judge and if one does then he not of my god anyway. I don't believe that church is required to go to heaven. Religion is only here to stump out chaos. Irregardless you know right from wrong if you ask yourself. It is instilled in each and every one of us so you should judge youself and no one else. You only need to believe that there is hope that death is not the end. If you do when you get older it will change in you. A year means a lot when you are young because it is a large part of the time you have lived. It means a lot when you get old because it could be all you have left. You have your life ahead of you and we all have been there. This is the reason I wrote the post things are getting better. Things will always get better but not as dramatic as is it for someone much older. You get to see and do things we only dreamed of when I was your age.

Give me a break sometimes because I see through different eyes than you do. Nothing personal, age is just creeping up on me and it is scary.

[blazeofglory]

Life is eternal and I beleieve it continues eternally and there is no end it to it. It goes eternally even after death. Even the body is not destroyable.

How does man die even corporeally+ His body will be at one with the universal being.

[DapperDrake]

Life is eternal and I believe it continues eternally and there is no end it to it. It goes eternally even after death. Even the body is not destroyable.

How does man die even corporeally+ His body will be at one with the universal being.

Well I guess that depends on what you mean by the word "life".

The body most certainly is destroyable, the body is more than the sum of its parts, you must concede that?

[Shu]

For me both ideas are frightening. Either I will live forever and it never ends or I will disappear without any traces. Brrrrr... :))

Besides, there is a vast array of ways, which can lead human to enlightenment, soul development and Christian is not the best.

[Scheherazade]

Why do we want to live eternally, anyway?

Because we are darn sure that we will make such a great success of this one?

[naomi moon]

Why do we want to live eternally, anyway?

Because we are darn sure that we will make such a great success of this one?
Yep, I totally agree with you Scheherazade.
Who needs eternity to make the things right, it's now or never.

[DapperDrake]

Why do we want to live eternally, anyway?

Because we are darn sure that we will make such a great success of this one?

Well personally (to quote Yossarian from catch 22) I intend to live forever or die in the attempt :)
Life is vital, its the most valuable thing in existence - It is existence, and I don't just mean personal existence, I mean every time someone dies a universe is destroyed - none of us live in the same world, we're each alone and to loose everything absolutely is the ultimate evil.

[NikolaiI]

Eternal life exists if we are always conscious of God. It says in the Vedas, "I have realized the Lord of Love, and have gone beyond birth and death. No other way is there to immortality," or basically something like this. Eternal life exists and you can see it just by observing life-- you must, however, realize the Self to get this-- but if you see how life is effortless, that is, when we give of ourselves we don't lose anything but receive mercy, the Self is inside us, as Kierkegaard writes "The hidden life of love," it is our deepest source, and God exists in our hearts, too, watching us and with us always, all we need to receive His mercy is to surrender to Him. And if you meditate on one thought, honestly, you will become absorbed by it, and you you will eventually see the truth of this; "How can God, with infinite power, be separated from humankind, longing for peace and deliverance-- or, guidance?" This is the main thing. And when we realize God, or our Self, then we attain eternal life.

[Domer121]

I believe that there is life after death. Otherwise why would we spend 80 odd years suffering and such on earth? Life is so short, there is something more. And especially after just losing someone.. .it is comforting to think that you will see them again... But thats just me...

[blazeofglory]

I believe that there is life after death. Otherwise why would we spend 80 odd years suffering and such on earth? Life is so short, there is something more. And especially after just losing someone.. .it is comforting to think that you will see them again... But thats just me...
Indeed there are ideas which are in point of fact varied from person to person. The idea of rebirth has been overly debated. Different persons have different opinions but none of us are sure of rebirth. It is confined to imaginations.

It is a matter of faith and as a matter of faith we should not seek for a scientific explanation. Faith has a big realm and it reign over a large mass of people.

Faith should not be out in the front and it should be in the background.

[blazeofglory]

Why do we want to live eternally, anyway?

Because we are darn sure that we will make such a great success of this one?

We love life and that is why we can not think about dying, and of course death is deadly and life is lovely. That is why despite everything life is so sweet.

[blazeofglory]

That life is eternal and that all we are kind of too much attached to it is very much evident in all our desires.

[Lambert]

Life is eternal and I beleieve it continues eternally and there is no end it to it. It goes eternally even after death. Even the body is not destroyable.


Eternal life exists if we are always conscious of God. It says in the Vedas, "I have realized the Lord of Love, and have gone beyond birth and death. No other way is there to immortality," or basically something like this. Eternal life exists and you can see it just by observing life-- you must, however, realize the Self to get this-- but if you see how life is effortless, that is, when we give of ourselves we don't lose anything but receive mercy, the Self is inside us, as Kierkegaard writes "The hidden life of love," it is our deepest source, and God exists in our hearts, too, watching us and with us always, all we need to receive His mercy is to surrender to Him. And if you meditate on one thought, honestly, you will become absorbed by it, and you you will eventually see the truth of this; "How can God, with infinite power, be separated from humankind, longing for peace and deliverance-- or, guidance?" This is the main thing. And when we realize God, or our Self, then we attain eternal life.


I believe that there is life after death. Otherwise why would we spend 80 odd years suffering and such on earth? Life is so short, there is something more. And especially after just losing someone.. .it is comforting to think that you will see them again... But thats just me...


have pondered this thought and the more I think about it I think the gift of life is eternal. I believe that when a man and a woman have a child, the child carries on their legacy. Therefore giving them eternal life, I also believe that the holy grail is a woman's uterus. I also believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again. I believe if you live your life in a true Christian way that you will find heaven on earth. It seems so tough until you do it. Just try walking around smiling for one day and see how people react. Most will smile back and probably say something to you. The ones that don't are preoccupied with there own problems. Namely, hell on earth.

Sorry to ask an awkward question here folks, but what exactly has this thread to do with philosophy? Eternal Life is an absurdity in an ontological sense. Empirically I've noticed quite a number of living things keel over and die (Plants, Animals, People etc.) so it's safe to say that that pretty much ends any philosophical on Eternal Life. This really a subject for theology, not philosophy. Discussing religious inanities such as this under the guise of so-called philosophy turns philosophy into a parlour game.

[Sweets America]

Sorry to ask an awkward question here folks, but what exactly has this thread to do with philosophy? Eternal Life is an absurdity in an ontological sense. Empirically I've noticed quite a number of living things keel over and die (Plants, Animals, People etc.) so it's safe to say that that pretty much ends any philosophical on Eternal Life. This really a subject for theology, not philosophy. Discussing religious inanities such as this under the guise of so-called philosophy turns philosophy into a parlour game.

Ah, here is our new winner for the Great Closed-Mindedness Contest. Congrats, Lambert, you're wonderful. :rolleyes:

Seriously, eternal life can be seen religiously, but philosophically as well, and I don't see why the idea should be called a 'religious inanity' either. Oh well.

[Lambert]

Ah, here is our new winner for the Great Closed-Mindedness Contest. Congrats, Lambert, you're wonderful. :rolleyes:

Seriously, eternal life can be seen religiously, but philosophically as well, and I don't see why the idea should be called a 'religious inanity' either. Oh well.

Oh yes, how silly of me! All the great modern Western philosophers believed in Eternal Life! Hume, Hegel, Heidegger, Russell: they all believed in Eternal Life!

Wow! How could I be so silly as to think rationally! That isn't philosophical at all!

[DapperDrake]

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from Lambert, any aspect of life is philosophically debatable. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether the great philosophers held opinions or not.
Would you prefer that all modern philosophy was just sitting around trading the opinions of dead philosophers and doing no thinking ourselves?

[Lambert]

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from Lambert, any aspect of life is philosophically debatable.

That's exactly my point. It's futile to argue about Eternal Life in philosophic context because any philosophic discussion of an Afterlife essentially ends with the fact that you cannot prove nor disprove the existence of an Afterlife. What you folks have been doing is discussing this subject in a theological context but pretending it's a philosophic one, carefully sidestepping any mention of metaphysics or ontology or showing any knowledge of the laws of logic.

Just look at the three quotes I chose in my first post. Anybody who came to this discussion, without knowing it was in forum for philosophical literature, would think the discussion was about theology.


It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether the great philosophers held opinions or not.
Would you prefer that all modern philosophy was just sitting around trading the opinions of dead philosophers and doing no thinking ourselves?

Where to be begin.....:rolleyes:

[Chester]

It's futile to argue about Eternal Life in philosophic context because any philosophic discussion of an Afterlife essentially ends with the fact that you cannot prove nor disprove the existence of an Afterlife.
I haven't paid real close attention to this thread so I have no problem believing that the issue has probably not been addressed with the proper tools of the philosopher, but before I say anything more I just have to have a clarification from you, Lambert, based on the quote above. Are you saying that matters that cannot be proven or disproven are somehow not appropriate for philosophical discourse? Surely I am misunderstanding you.

[DapperDrake]

Where to be begin.....:rolleyes:

Feel free, I'd be interested in your opinion.

[Lambert]

Are you saying that matters that cannot be proven or disproven are somehow not appropriate for philosophical discourse? Surely I am misunderstanding you.

It's less to do with appropriateness and more to do with length. How far and how widely can you argue about Eternal Life really? It's an idealistic concept with no empirical basis. Whereas with other concepts such as history, you can still argue from an idealist stance because you have an empirical basis to go on. From an epistemological standpoint there simply isn't enough to build an argument from. At least with the concept of God you have causality for instance. It's a subject better suited to a theological discussion.

[DapperDrake]

It's less to do with appropriateness and more to do with length. How far and how widely can you argue about Eternal Life really? It's an idealistic concept with no empirical basis. Whereas with other concepts such as history, you can still argue from an idealist stance because you have an empirical basis to go on. From an epistemological standpoint there simply isn't enough to build an argument from. At least with the concept of God you have causality for instance. It's a subject better suited to a theological discussion.

What's empirical about history? Could not everything be said to fall within the realms of idealism, not least of all history.
I would say that there is an empirical basis for arguing about the duration of life, and that is life itself - possibly the only item we can be sure of.

Besides, who said we have to come to a conclusion? can we not just discuss these thing out of interest?

[Chester]

It's less to do with appropriateness and more to do with length. How far and how widely can you argue about Eternal Life really? It's an idealistic concept with no empirical basis. Whereas with other concepts such as history, you can still argue from an idealist stance because you have an empirical basis to go on. From an epistemological standpoint there simply isn't enough to build an argument from. At least with the concept of God you have causality for instance. It's a subject better suited to a theological discussion.
Well this is just a complete misunderstanding of philosophy, particularly the branch of epistemology. From whose "epistemological standpoint"?

I really don't understand at all what you're trying to say.

[Sweets America]

It's less to do with appropriateness and more to do with length. How far and how widely can you argue about Eternal Life really? It's an idealistic concept with no empirical basis. Whereas with other concepts such as history, you can still argue from an idealist stance because you have an empirical basis to go on. From an epistemological standpoint there simply isn't enough to build an argument from. At least with the concept of God you have causality for instance. It's a subject better suited to a theological discussion.

What's this about empirical bases? Who cares if something can be proven or not? Discussions about things which have no real answer are the most interesting ones to me. What matters is not the answer, it's the ideas, I really don't care about truth and proofs.

[Rakthor]

I think that the idea of eternal life is horrifying. The idea of an eternal afterlife is repulsive to me. That would completely invalidate our limited time here on earth. The fact that life has an end is what makes it so special.

And I must agree with the above post by Sweets America. It's not the destination that interests me, it's the journey itself that really matters.

[Chester]

I think that the idea of eternal life is horrifying. The idea of an eternal afterlife is repulsive to me. That would completely invalidate our limited time here on earth. The fact that life has an end is what makes it so special.
I would suggest that this is because you're considering "eternal" in temporal terms. I'm seeing it as timeless. Time-less.

[Sweets America]

I would suggest that this is because you're considering "eternal" in temporal terms. I'm seeing it as timeless. Time-less.

Oh, that's interesting, this clarification. I tend to share Rakthor's feelings about eternal life but reading your reply makes me wonder. Could you explain a little more?

[Chester]

Well I’m imagining a kind of state where the constraints of time and space disappear and one becomes at one with the universe (God, if you will). For me it’s a question of what happens to human consciousness upon the death of the body. I imagine it carries on, but is no longer limited by temporality. Maybe, strictly for demonstrative purposes, one can think of it as a single, beautiful moment (of course it’s not a "moment" since that has connotations relating to time) that one never really feels pass. One exists entirely in that moment.

Of course Lambert will remind you that this contemplation of mine on the subject of consciousness is not fit for philosophical discussion. I am apparently just engaging in theology. ;)

[Sweets America]

Well I’m imagining a kind of state where the constraints of time and space disappear and one becomes at one with the universe (God, if you will). For me it’s a question of what happens to human consciousness upon the death of the body. I imagine it carries on, but is no longer limited by temporality. Maybe, strictly for demonstrative purposes, one can think of it as a single, beautiful moment (of course it’s not a "moment" since that has connotations relating to time) that one never really feels pass. One exists entirely in that moment.

Of course Lambert will remind you that this contemplation of mine on the subject of consciousness is not fit for philosophical discussion. I am apparently just engaging in theology. ;)

Thank you very much. :) I sense what you mean here, it seems peaceful, very peaceful. In the meantime it seems smothering, I am not sure, being trapped in immobility, but at the same time being everything and everywhere at once. However, I don't really like the idea of making one with God, I am not especially fond of God, but I don't know him enough to really state an opinion.

What you say also reminds me of the emptiness they talk about in Buddhism, you know, how everything is made of the same void, and I love that thought in a way.
But, still, I cannot help being scared of not dying. :lol:

Oh, and who cares if you're talking about theology or philosophy or whatever else? ;) That's interesting, what you say. I don't want to classify what you're talking about.

[Chester]

You're more than welcome.

Yes, I would say it’s very much an Eastern concept, although one can find it in Western thought as well (such as in Christian Mysticism or the philosophical concept of pantheism, where the universe is God). One can reach this state, or catch glimpses of it, through meditation. "Smothering" and "trapped" are human concepts that really wouldn’t at all relate to such a state. Time doesn’t permit me to get into God and why you shouldn’t dislike God. Suffice it to say that if you dropped what I am imagining to be some rather anthropomorphic ideas of God (ascribing human traits to that which is really impossible to define adequately), you might end up ultimately with a different mind-set.

[Sweets America]

You're more than welcome.

Yes, I would say it’s very much an Eastern concept, although one can find it in Western thought as well (such as in Christian Mysticism or the philosophical concept of pantheism, where the universe is God). One can reach this state, or catch glimpses of it, through meditation. "Smothering" and "trapped" are human concepts that really wouldn’t at all relate to such a state. Time doesn’t permit me to get into God and why you shouldn’t dislike God. Suffice it to say that if you dropped what I am imagining to be some rather anthropomorphic ideas of God (ascribing human traits to that which is really impossible to define adequately), you might end up ultimately with a different mind-set.

Yes I have read some things about the fact that one can reach this state through meditation. It is tempting.
I agree with you about 'trapped' and 'smothering' which would not relate to that state, it is just my human mind analysing things, I know. Now about God, all I can say is that I really don't know anything about religion, but it's the idea of the presence of a God, I don't like it for myself, it makes me feel as if someone else were patronizing me, and I don't like the idea of sins, I don't know, life is already so difficult here that I don't want to believe in something which would restrain my freedom even more, I guess I prefer believing in myself. But that is not incompatible with believing in a God, I know, and in the meantime I said somewhere else that I found it beautiful when someone truly believed in God. I guess it's just that it's not for me, I just want to be by myself and to find things by myself, and meditation and emptiness are concepts that I find interesting somehow, but once again here I don't know enough.

[Chester]

I just want to be by myself and to find things by myself
Well this I understand completely. Me too. And there’s nothing in the world wrong with this. Especially if you come to realize, as I have over time, what it really is that’s within you, and what it really is that's at the very heart of "my self."

[DapperDrake]

Well this I understand completely. Me too. And there’s nothing in the world wrong with this. Especially if you come to realize, as I have over time, what it really is that’s within you, and what it really is that's at the very heart of "my self."

I could be mistaking you or I could just be wrong but in my experience this discovery of self has been about loosing illusions and socially imposed prejudices about what life should be. I guess for me my knowledge of myself hasn't really changed but my perception of how I fit into life and of what life is about have changed.
What I'm trying to say is that the modern "rat race" of education, career, family, money, possessions etc. is not what makes life worth living - for me at least, the pathos and.. I'm not sure what the word is but I mean the appreciation of all the irony, wit, insight, sensibility.. in short the appreciation of the higher feelings and mental processes that life offers. The poetry of life perhaps. That is what is really valuable, those other things only have value in so much as they can provide access to these higher things for us.


That probably doesn't make any sense but I just got back from the pub so forgive me :)

[Chester]

Nice post. And well said. (Not bad for a guy just got back from the pub.)

Yes, I would say finding oneself is just that – losing illusions, stripping away the society-placed constraints, giving up what I would call the "ego" self and finding the "true" self. "The poetry of life" is a beautiful way to describe what’s accessible with the higher feelings. I think it’s possible that if one has the right perspective on life, one can see the poetry in everything. I would go so far as to suggest that it’s all poetry.

[byquist]

Thinking eternal life is thinking big; thinking days or decades, or watching the minutes tick by, is small thinking. Big thinking is more fun than small thinking.

[Chester]

Thinking eternal life is thinking big; thinking days or decades, or watching the minutes tick by, is small thinking. Big thinking is more fun than small thinking.
I like this.

[Bruce Bradley]

I just got a chance to look at my post and I sure opened a can worms, Guess what I like worms. Who knows they might just live forever too. I could not believe lambert saying there is no value in discussing enteral life. He was having a good time discussing it as far I can see. I wanted to get a reply in there and I guess I was too late.

Well that's alright I love that you all have had so much to discuss my post . I always try write while it fresh on my mind and then edit it later. Everybodies thoughts are important to have input to improve our quality of life. People like that lambert dude havn't came to that reality yet. He is still trying to force his opinion on people. If he doesn't want to talk about a topic go to another one. We can have it like that in this day and time. Too many people have their own ideas and have every right to voice them. A lot this rides on the backs of the American People, who was the first to stand up for these rights. It has grown into every society everywhere now. Keep the replys coming and I'll keep reading them.

Ever lasting life is in the here and now and has always been here. Our children live and breath because they are a part of us. If that is not enteral life what is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take that Mr. Lambert, is that Philosophical enough for you.

If you think about it, it is Philosophical.

Bruce

[naomi moon]

Federigo was a character that I read about and he wanted to live eternally and used a couple of tricks actually favors accorded to him by Jesus the Christ to do so. He was finally fed up of living, when the death came to take his soul which she did. Pluton the master of darkness won't let his soul in hell, and the death took Federigo's soul with her to the purgatory which was also inaccessible to him (Federigo). The death was obliged to take him to heaven and there he was accepted:lol:

I guess that it would be boring to live forever even if we seek life in all what we do and what we don't.

[blazeofglory]

Eternal life!

Life is eternal. All we see, change, metamorphoses, transformation, alteration are simply delusions. In essence there is no change. Life is eternal, and there is no death, no birth, and all we see are illusions, and so called changes and transformations are illusions.

Man and the universe are not two different existences or entities. It is one and the same and that remains unchanged at the base no matter on the surface or on the outer cover there are so many changes but deep a the core there is no change.

Phases of life is not life. Ageing is not life.

Life is eternal. As eternal as this cosmic world.

Everything seems to have dimensions, phases, growths and all the rest of attributes, but when your level of undersftanding deepens, or intensifies you will understand this truth.

[MissScarlett]

Hi blazeofglory. I'm new here, but I'm very happy to meet you. It seems you and I share many of the same beliefs. I've been meditating daily for years, but I'm not "there" yet. I still have more attachment to my life and more fear of death than a person who meditates should have. I feel much of the attachment we feel in this life is due to having an ego. In one sense, we need our ego to get us through this life, but Life, the real Life, requires no ego. I think it's the ego that causes the fear of death. We're afraid, not so much of moving on to another level of existence, but of annihilation.

What about love, blazeofglory? Do you believe love connects two people, even though they aren't together physically in this world? Do you believe that love exists even after the death of one of them? And do you believe it's eternal?

I think you're a wonderful, very evolved, very loving person. I feel joyful to have meet you.