French Literature

[Proust71]

Good evening once again, fellow literary academicians! After completely inspired by Proust, I must delve myself with French literature. I read from a source that Stendhal and Balzac had their mark upon Proust's writing, so are they worth the trouble? I have already purchased The Red and the Black; I only hope it is worth the purchase. Thank you. Oh, and what of Flaubert?

[mortalterror]

I used to think that The Red and the Black was dry and with rather poor sentence structure, but I picked it up the other day and it's awfully good. I can't speak for all of Balzac's work. However, I read Pere Goriot and thought it had the finest plotting I've ever seen in a novel. It flys by, it's so easy to read. Madame Bovary was as close as I've ever seen to a perfect novel. I remember putting it down and thinking I'd been entertained from beginning to end, and I couldn't think of a single flaw. I've seen almost every aspect of story telling done better than Flaubert did them, but I'd never seen anybody write with such strengths across the board. From character, to pacing, narrative style, and the flow of words and diction, Madame Bovary has the whole package. You might want to look into Dumas' The Three Musketeers, for some great action adventure, and Hugo's Les Miserables to see how an ordinary man becomes a saint. Some passages in Hugo are as well crafted as Dante could have made them. Some are melodramatic and silly. His strengths are really in characterization, description, and narrative style. The last part of Les Miserables turns into a bad version of Pere Goriot, and it's a little long, but still a great read. You might also want to read Maupassant's short stories. Ball of Fat is something else. That should do you for the nineteenth century, unless anyone else can think of something to add.

Most of the 20th century masterpieces have gotten a lot of chat elsewhere on this message board, but if you get the chance try some of the earlier French classics. Things like Athalia by Jean Racine, the Essays of Montaigne, or the Maxims of La Rochefoucauld are some of my favorites. Oh, and you might as well check out Gargantua and Pantagruel, along with the works of Moliere. I didn't like them but they are definitely worth studying.

I'm curious, has anyone read The Heptameron, Princess of Cleves, or Dangerous Liasons?

[loe]

I liked The Red and the Black more than The Charterhouse of Parma.
The other works of Stendhal I don't know.

And I really love Balzac. :)
La Peau de chagrin is one of my favorites.
I also read Lost Illusions (Illusions perdues) and the sequel Splendeurs et misères des courtisanes.
And I also know some of his mystical stories like Louis Lambert and Seraphita.
(I'm sorry for not being familiar with English titles).

I really appreciate the French writers. As already mentioned, Jean Racine and Montaigne are great, the unforgettable Hunchback of Notre Dame by Hugo and many many more.

And from the 20th century I like reading Sartre, Camus, de Beauvoir.

[rgdmalaysia]

Balzac is a great writer....I especially like the depth of his characters (in for example Pere Goriot or Cousin Bette).

He has a lighter touch than Zola whom I like even more....As far as the novel as social critique goes and if that was the only measurement, Zola is my favorite writer.

However, my two overall favorite French writers are Celine (because of his style and because Death on the Installment Plan is one of the most moving powerful and perfectly constructed books I've ever read) and Proust (In Search of Lost Time....What can you say that hasn't already been said?).

One French writer I hope to read soon is Georges Perec....He has been recommended to me several times.

[Inderjit Sanghe]

Proust and Stendhal both deal with the lives of European aristocrats, but their subject matters tend to be different; Proust deals with themes such as our perceptions of the motives of other characters and how our relationships with people change over time, death and memory, whereas Stendhal writes more about political intrigues, as he himself states, his novels are designed for the "happy few". (I.e. powerful politicians and aristocrats) In some ways Proust resembles Balzac in that his novels, like Balzac's "Human Comedy" contain characters that constantly appear and reappear throughout the novel(s), often with different personalities and in different guises. Balzac's prose is sometimes convoluted and clumsy, though he in general had less time to write his books, whereas Proust had all the time in the world, though he never really found an editor for In Search of Lost Time. Balzac is an interesting author, who often teeters between dross and brilliance, but he wrote so many books that it is easy to pick one or two which you may like-Lost Illusions is a decent if uninspiring read, Balzac's strongest novels are probably Old Goirot and Cousin Bette, mainly because both are full of the demented sociopaths who Balzac seems to enjoy describing. Balzac is a very entertaining writer, as is Stendhal, though I doubt either are as great or influential as Flaubert or Proust.

Proust himself claims that one of the biggest influences for his writing was the somewhat esoteric writer/poet/lackey of Alexandre Dumas, Gerard de Nerval. Nerval's short story, Sylvie was particularly influence in Proust's conception of In Search of Lost Time-especially in relation to themes such as the subjective nature of the narrator and "involuntary memory". de Nerval is certainly worth reading.

Flaubert's Madame Bovary is indeed, as one poster has stated, the perfect novel-it is brilliant, as is A Sentimental Education, though Bovary is probably one of the greatest novels of all time.

As far as the 20th century goes, the highpoints of French literature, besides Proust, are probably Gide, the nouveau roman (Robbe-Grillet, Sarraute, Claude Simon) and Queneau. The nouveau roman was a highly original set of writers (somewhat arbitrarily put together) who wanted to explore and change our actual perceptions of the novel via original and idiosyncratic plots and styles, they thought of writing a novel as being a semi-scientific process.

I guess you could divide French literature between highly original, hard to read and understand writers and poets (Baudelaire, Flaubert, Rimbaud, Proust, Gide, Queneau, Robbe-Grillet, Beckett, Genet) and the 'storytellers' who wrote in a classical style with a fixed, often exciting, plot. (Balzac, Stendhal, Hugo, Dumas, Collete). It all depends on which style you prefer.

There are also the 'philosophical' novels/movements such as existentialism (Sarte, Camus, de Beauvoir) which is influenced by a wide variety of genres- philosophy (Husserl, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche), politics (Marx) and fiction (Dostoevskii), Camus's The Stranger and Sartre's Nausea are the most famous 'existential' novels, and are important novels if you are contemplating suicide. Surrealism is another important movement in French lit., Breton's Nadja is a highly original if hard going novel. Naturalism was also an important movement, Zola and Maupaussant are it's two most famous exponents, though I have little liking for either, my favourite naturalist is probably Huysmans, his novel Against Nature, though not all his novels fit under the banner of 'naturalism'. Cocteau is another great French writer.

[B-Mental]

Have you read Dumas? Les Miserables? Get the unnabridged. It is pure poetry. Bon Chance, Alles B

[Kafka's Crow]

If you are into surrealism, absurd, grotesque, the picaresque and decadence and you have time to read just one book, Comte de Lautreamont's (1846-1870) The Songs of Maldoror is the book you are looking for. Equally interesting are the poet's personality, his very young death and his prophecy about his own future reputation both in Maldoror and Pansies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Chants_de_Maldoror
http://www.kisa.ca/maldoror/english.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/187897212X/lautreamontsmald

[NickAdams]

I've been exploring French authors for some time; the two modern works I have on my shelf are Alain Robbe-Grillet's The Voyeur and Jean Genet's The Thief's Journal. I wish someone had nominated Proust for the May read.


If you are into surrealism, absurd, grotesque, the picaresque and decadence and you have time to read just one book, Comte de Lautreamont's (1846-1870) The Songs of Maldoror is the book you are looking for. Equally interesting are the poet's personality, his very young death and his prophecy about his own future reputation both in Maldoror and Pansies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Chants_de_Maldoror
http://www.kisa.ca/maldoror/english.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/187897212X/lautreamontsmald

Looks interesting. Thanks.

[Scheherazade]

Those who are interested in French Literature might like to take part in our French Reading in May:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=556225#post556225

[blazeofglory]

Good evening once again, fellow literary academicians! After completely inspired by Proust, I must delve myself with French literature. I read from a source that Stendhal and Balzac had their mark upon Proust's writing, so are they worth the trouble? I have already purchased The Red and the Black; I only hope it is worth the purchase. Thank you. Oh, and what of Flaubert?

French literature is a great reservoir I filled my bowel of ideas from.

Indeed a great source of inspiration and no other writers can touch me more deeply.

[NickAdams]

I wish someone would have nominated Proust as well, Nick. I couldn't, as I didn't have enough post at that time. He is my favorite author. Well, Proust and Tolstoy and Thomas Hardy and William Trevor.

My favorites among French literature, besides Proust, are:

Sentimental Education - Gustave Flaubert
The Short Stories of Guy du Maupassant
Nadja - Andre Breton
Notre-Dame-des-Fleurs - Jean Genet
La Princesse de Cleves - Madame de Lafayette

I wanted a sample of Proust, so instead of getting In Search of, I got Proust's complete short fiction.

[Proust71]

Merci, tout le monde! This is all very encouraging and I appreciate the recommendations.

[curlyqlink]

I really enjoy Flaubert. Sentimental Education, A Simple Heart... he has great sensitivity and sympathy for human folly. A Simple Heart is very short, a quick read, and as an added bonus it leads right into Julian Barnes' wonderful novel Flaubert's Parrot.

[NickAdams]

I have Proust's short fiction as well. In my opinion, he didn't excel at the short form, but you can certainly get a sample of him there, and who knows, you might find he did excel at the short form. Literature is nothing if not objective, right?

I think you mean subjective.;)

[mortalterror]

And I don't think that's necessarily correct either. Biologically we're all the same. On the genetic level we respond to the same things. Therefore aesthetics should be universal and objective, whereas individual taste is a plastic response to formal and informal education leading to subjective opinions. Ideally, you can condition anybody to like anything, and I think this is where opinions diverge, and the source of our differences. More accurately, people are subjective, but literature is not. Don Quixote is a great novel independent of my opinion of it.

[NickAdams]

And I don't think that's necessarily correct either. Biologically we're all the same. On the genetic level we respond to the same things. Therefore aesthetics should be universal and objective, whereas individual taste is a plastic response to formal and informal education leading to subjective opinions. Ideally, you can condition anybody to like anything, and I think this is where opinions diverge, and the source of our differences. More accurately, people are subjective, but literature is not. Don Quixote is a great novel independent of my opinion of it.

Aesthetics create a divide; like morality: once we are aware of good standards, evil develops. A universal aesthetic seems like a hiccup of atavism. Once we became aware of what we enjoy and why we enjoy it, we started to diverge from it (at least in the West). We are subjective, but the work itself is nothing with out the reader. The text can not read its self. A book on a shelf is a book on a shelf to nature, but its meaning come from our knowledge of it.

[ben.!]

I've got Madame Bovary on my bookshelf waiting to be read. I'm looking forward to it, you guys are saying its an awesome read!:D

[Sebas. Melmoth]

my favourite naturalist is probably Huysmans.

J.-K. Huysmans is surely one of the finest most little-known authors around.
Even in translation his supressed rage and incredibly imaginative tropes are fully evident.

His novella With the Flow is a good place to start with Huysmans.

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Hesperus-Classics-Joris-Karl-Huysmans/dp/1843910500/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273667973&sr=1-1

[janesmith]

Don't think anybody has mentioned Zola yet. I'm a huge fan of his Rougon-Macquart series. I can't be the only member who enjoys Naturalism, can I?

[dfloyd]

is one of my favorite books. so much so that I had my copy rebound in scarlet Nigerian goatskin and black linen. The Charterhouse of Parma is not so good. It is noted, however, for containing a better description of the battle of Waterloo than does Hugo's Les Miserable. Those are the only two novels by Stendahl. Read the Rouge et Noir for sure; skip the Chartehouse of Parma because there are many other French works to read. Madame Bovary for example.

As for Zola, Nana is one of my favorite French novels. Others about the demimonde or courtesan class that I have enjoyed are Maupassant's Bel-Ami and Dumas' fils Camille. I have read Germinal and Therese Racquin, but didn't enjoy them much, too depressing.

[loe]

I really liked Therese Racquin (it's so very angry in the end - fantastic!).

I think that what you call "too depressing" is the most important and attractive quality why I appreciate French and Russian literature so much. But I guess, this is a question of one's personal taste... :)

Best regards

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Zola: The Sin of Father Mouet.

[Mariamosis]

Don't think anybody has mentioned Zola yet. I'm a huge fan of his Rougon-Macquart series. I can't be the only member who enjoys Naturalism, can I?

Absolutely not!
I am a huge fan of Zola and naturalism in general.
Unlike dfloyd I wasn't a big fan of 'Nana', however, it could have been my translation. I find his more gritty "depressing" works to be far more entertaining and have read 8 of the 20 so far, most of which are gloomy.

Which novels of the series did you enjoy?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I really liked Therese Racquin (it's so very angry in the end - fantastic!).


Yes I quite enjoyed this too.

[Mariamosis]

Yes I quite enjoyed this too.

If you enjoyed Therese Racquin for the "angry ending", you should really consider picking up 'The Earth' or 'La Terre' if you haven't already read it.

[LitNetIsGreat]

If you enjoyed Therese Racquin for the "angry ending", you should really consider picking up 'The Earth' or 'La Terre' if you haven't already read it.

I just sort of enjoyed generally, not particularly for the ending as such. Though I will make a mental note of the others thanks.

[janesmith]

Absolutely not!
I am a huge fan of Zola and naturalism in general.
Unlike dfloyd I wasn't a big fan of 'Nana', however, it could have been my translation. I find his more gritty "depressing" works to be far more entertaining and have read 8 of the 20 so far, most of which are gloomy.

Which novels of the series did you enjoy?


I was transfixed by "L'Assommoir" and "La Terre". He is second to none when it comes to depicting human degradation. Glad there are others who enjoy Zola. I'm trying to work my way through the entire series because I'm considering a Phd regarding degeneration and biological discourses of female sexuality.

[blazeofglory]

I have read a few French novels from writers like Voltaire, Maupassant, Balzac, Victor Hugo. French literature is a great reservoir for me and I always find them full of inspiration and vigor and I always like to read Proust's novel but never endeavored it

[Babak Movahed]

French Lit is fantastic, French writers usually have quite a poetic style.
So my recommendations would be Candide by Voltaire, The Stranger and The Plague by Camus, Madame Bovary by Flaubert and Nausea by Sartre.

But I'm planning on starting In Search of Lost Time, how do you recommend I go about it, read one book after another or read a couple at a time then take a break and start again?

[Sebas. Melmoth]

I'm planning on starting In Search of Lost Time, how do you recommend I go about it, read one book after another or read a couple at a time then take a break and start again?

I would recommend you start with volume III Sodom and Gomorrah because it's very accessible.
It may pique your interest in Proust's entire project.
Also it will introduce you to Proust's style.

The time-frame for vol. III is ca. 1900, whereas vol. I Swann's Way begins ca. 1875.

If you get through Sodom and Gomorrah, you could then go either way: finish the series and begin again, or go back to vol. I and start there.

If you simply begin with vol. I and expect to go all the way through, you may have a problem with In Search of Lost Time.

Also, before beginning, if possible you might catch a film made a few years ago, Time Regained, which will give you a good general idea of Proust's time-frame.

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Regained-Catherine-Deneuve/dp/B0000584ZF/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1274791199&sr=1-1

Bon voyage!

[TheFifthElement]

I very much enjoyed Therese Raquin by Zola, and I have Germinal in my 'to read' pile, as well as La Bete Humaine in my 'to obtain at some point' list. Zola, I think, is excellent.

Apart from Zola, I very much enjoy the works of Simone de Beauvoir. It's a shame her work is often overlooked in favour of Sartre, as she's the better writer, sharper and clearer and more beautiful, in many ways. I'd strongly recommend The Woman Destroyed (which was nominated for the June book club reading, but looks to have been sidelined for Alice in Wonderland), and I'm currently reading All Men are Mortal and it's an excellent read. Her characters are not especially sympathetic, but that seems to give them greater depth.

I also enjoy Sartre, particularly Nausea which is a must read.

[victorianfan]

Zola is my favorite, but I also like Balzac, Flaubert, Maupassant, Gide and Camus.

Of the contemporary writers I like Michel Houellebecq , Amélie Nothomb (she's Belgian, in fact) and don't like Frédéric Beigbeder.

[Desolation]

J'aime les francais. (Am I saying that right? I've only taken high school French, and it's been years.)

France is my favorite country as far as literary output is concerned...Celine, Sartre, Voltaire, Proust, Stendhal, Camus, Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Lautremont, Breton...Not to mention that Joyce, Beckett, and Henry Miller were at their most productive when they lived in France, although I doubt that any of them could be considered French literature.

[TheFifthElement]

Wasn't Camus Algerian?

[Desolation]

Wasn't Camus Algerian?When Camus was born, Algeria had not yet achieved independence, and was a French territory.

[TheFifthElement]

When Camus was born, Algeria had not yet achieved independence, and was a French territory.

So he's French in the same way that James Joyce is British? I suppose that makes sense. Or rather it makes sense why I didn't think of him as French, I guess.

[hack]

A North African then?

[Emil Miller]

For all you wishful thinkers, Camus was born of French stock in Algeria and is therefore French and not Algerian.

[hack]

Oui! Pardon!

[kiki1982]

So he's French in the same way that James Joyce is British? I suppose that makes sense. Or rather it makes sense why I didn't think of him as French, I guess.

There is a big difference between being born of Algerian parents in Algeria under French rule, and being born in a foreign country out of French parents. Certainly the collonial scene did not include any North-Africans whatsoever and Camus's father was probably there to serve the government or something.

So, French like Joyce was British? That's a very rash generalisation.

[OrphanPip]

Camus was a Pied-Noir (black feet in English), ethnic French born in Algeria. If Camus is French then I'm British. He was born in Algeria, raised in Algeria (and was poor mind you), educated in Algeria, and heavily involved in Algerian independence movements.

Edit: Technically his mother was ethnically Spanish too, so at most he's half French.

Edit2: His father was a farmer settler Kiki.

Edit3: A more apt analogy is that is that Pieds-Noirs are French in the way that Afrikaaner in South Africa are Dutch/German.

[tiredstudent]

ive read The Red and The Black, its good, as long as you don't mind hypocrisy. The second half of that book is the more exciting part.

I would suggest to you Zola's books. Emile Zola. He wrote the Debacle (the downfall) and Germinal. I liked germinal better, but its apart of like a 19 book series. they don't focus on one person, but its a series still i guess. You mentioned flaubert? Read A sentimental Education by him. there all pretty good, although french literature isn't my thing

[sixsmith]

I tend to think of Camus as French Algerian, with respect to both ethnic and literary identity. The latter is something of a vexed question and one perhaps more suited to another thread. That said, The Outsider, though for mine rendered a little slight in the wake of repeated readings of Kafka, remains a penetrating and clear eyed work. I've always considered The Plague a bland affair, a novel hamstrung by the demands of allegory and flattened by the weight of its tendentiousness.

I think Nausea is Satre's greatest achievement, which is not necessarily saying much. For reasons that aren't entirely clear, I've avoided Zola. However, I've noticed, Fifth, that you and I share broadly similar tastes so I may give him a shot. There are seven unread volumes of some Proust novel sitting on my bookshelf (It's gonna happen). Flaubert I admire, but can live without.

I've recently started reading Baudelaire seriously and he is now without question one of my favourite poets. I have also enjoyed the work of Rimbaud and Valery.

[victorianfan]

I've recently started reading Baudelaire seriously and he is now without question one of my favourite poets. I have also enjoyed the work of Rimbaud and Valery.

He's my favourite poet too! :nod:

[Babak Movahed]

I would recommend you start with volume III Sodom and Gomorrah because it's very accessible.
It may pique your interest in Proust's entire project.
Also it will introduce you to Proust's style.

The time-frame for vol. III is ca. 1900, whereas vol. I Swann's Way begins ca. 1875.

If you get through Sodom and Gomorrah, you could then go either way: finish the series and begin again, or go back to vol. I and start there.

If you simply begin with vol. I and expect to go all the way through, you may have a problem with In Search of Lost Time.

Also, before beginning, if possible you might catch a film made a few years ago, Time Regained, which will give you a good general idea of Proust's time-frame.

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Regained-Catherine-Deneuve/dp/B0000584ZF/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1274791199&sr=1-1

Bon voyage!


Thanks for the advice man and by the way Oscar Wilde is my favorite English writer. The Importance of Being Earnest is absolutely hilarious and Picture of Dorian Grey is a classic.

[TheFifthElement]

So, French like Joyce was British? That's a very rash generalisation.

How so? Desolation's statement was:


When Camus was born, Algeria had not yet achieved independence, and was a French territory.

Equally, James Joyce was born in Ireland when Ireland was part of the United Kingdom (and had been incorporated into the United Kingdom from 1801, Joyce was born in 1882) so he was born of British parents into the United Kingdom. Arguably Joyce's nationality is British in the same way that it is argued that Camus is French. See, not rash at all ;)


Camus was a Pied-Noir (black feet in English), ethnic French born in Algeria. If Camus is French then I'm British. He was born in Algeria, raised in Algeria (and was poor mind you), educated in Algeria, and heavily involved in Algerian independence movements.


Yes, that was my thinking too. Camus didn't go to France until he was 25 years old. He is culturally and ethnically different to 'French' writers. I don't think of Camus as a French author. He is French Algerian, if anything.

[kiki1982]

You forget the collonial way of dealing with things not including the locals at all. Therefore, the nations under the British are much better off now, because the British at least tried to understand their subjects, though not without putting through their agenda. However, they did make the country better and did not suck it dry like the French did to then leave it in poverty. Camus would have had less contact with local culture than Joyce would have had in Ireland.

Therefore it is reasonable to believe that Joyce is more Irish than Camus Algerian and therefore Joyce is less British than Camus French.

[TheFifthElement]

You forget the collonial way of dealing with things not including the locals at all. Therefore, the nations under the British are much better off now, because the British at least tried to understand their subjects, though not without putting through their agenda. However, they did make the country better and did not suck it dry like the French did to then leave it in poverty. Camus would have had less contact with local culture than Joyce would have had in Ireland.

Therefore it is reasonable to believe that Joyce is more Irish than Camus Algerian and therefore Joyce is less British than Camus French.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Camus was a poor French Algerian, educated in Angerian schools and heavily interested in Algerian politics. His mother was Spanish, illiterate and worked as a cleaner, and his father was a poor agricultural worker. His literature, and political leanings all indicate that he was heavily integrated into and influenced by Algerian culture.

Joyce on the other hand was born to British parents - i.e. when his parents were born Ireland was a part of, not a colony of, the United Kingdom. So his nationality would have been 'British' (and Irish) in the same sense that it is true to say English people are both English and British, and Welsh people are both Welsh and British, and so on.

For the record, I see Joyce as an Irish writer, but if the argument is that Camus is French because one of his parents was of French descent (Camus's father was also born in Algeria and his mother was from a Minorcan family) then Joyce is a British writer.

[kiki1982]

Yes, he was poor. So, does that mean that he also went to school with his muslim fellow civilians? No, as it seems. There is a clear difference in the society created by the British when Ireland was still, granted, a part of the UK, and the society created by the French in Algeria after annexation.

Essentially, there was a society created to the French system (with départements, communities, cantons and the whole rim-ram) which had as its subjects only the immigrants, French and Spanish. The indigenus people, muslims and israelites, were not concerned. The muslims were ruled by their own laws, but could, if they wanted, participate in certain jobs like the military. In that case, they would willingly subject themselves to French law, but for that they had to make a declaration of desire to do that with their Arab administration. Muslims (israelits ar not mentioned on Wikipedia French) did not even have the French nationality! I would doubt that there were any ehtnic Algerians far and wide in the school Camus went to.

His father was not an agricultural wprker, but a caviste for a wine-merchant. A caviste was someone in charge of the wine in general, something like a sommelier in a restaurant. Hardly 'agricultural' at all. His mother only became poor becase his father died, as many widows did in those days.

Admittedly, Camus can have seen and been interested in traditional Algerian culture, but he didn't live in it as such. If his work holds certain oddities in comparison with French French work, then it is because the colonial French society was a little different from the French French society as they were so far apart, but nothing more than that.

As I said, the British rather included the indigenous people than push them aside. The British in Idia, for example, knew much more about Indian culture and let Indians participate much more, than the French ever did in Vietnam. As such, even if Ireland was not a colony per say and if there was still a cultural difference between the Irish gaelic speaking community and the English speaking society (although they tried to eradicate Irish Gaelic in its entirety and quite succeeded), they did not at all bar the Irish entirely from anything, even UK law, eventhough France did that in Algeria, although that was also an official part of France, the same as Ireland was of the UK. Like Oscar Wilde in fact, had Irish parents, who were very much up the social ladder. If his father had been Algerian, he would never have got to knighthood. just because he was not French and would never have got to Oxford. Therefore, Joyce would have been able to witness much more, and come in contact with many more Irish and British together than Camus ever with Algerian.

[sixsmith]

Kiki,

I think I see your logic and you make a good point with respect to Camus' education for example. However, even if we accept the premise that French rule negated/separated Algerian culture and identity to a greater extent than, say, British rule did with respect to Ireland, it doesn't conclusively determine the issue of Camus' own identity. Indeed, identity is not static. As Fifth points out, Algeria, its native culture and political fate were central to the way Camus understood himself and that understanding, in turn, informed all of his work. In characterising his identity, that influence and understanding is, for mine, as important as who he encountered as a young man or who his father was or wasn't.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Wilde is my favorite.

Wilde of course spoke fluent French and wrote his play Salomé in French to achieve recognition as an artist in France.

He knew many of the important French men of letters of his day: indeed, there is the episode when he had an assignation with Proust (ca. 1891).
Wilde's arrived at Proust's house (where he lived with his parents).
Proust was late, and Wilde was chagrined to wait.
Having expected a tête-à-tête with Proust and discovering that dinner was to be with the parents as well, when Proust finally did arrive Wilde immediately decamped.

[Emil Miller]

I just sort of enjoyed generally, not particularly for the ending as such. Though I will make a mental note of the others thanks.

Neely,
If you like Zola and haven't read L'assommoir, do so as soon as you can. I have read most of Zola's works and, although they are all important landmarks in French literature, L'assommoir is a giant of French naturalism; stunning in every way and incredibly moving. I have visited the part of Paris in which it is set and it is much the same, although the inhabitants now are mostly immigrants.
Another must read is La Bete Humaine, the ending of which is nohing short of amazing.
It's not for nothing that Zola is buried next to Hugo in the Pantheon.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Zola is buried next to Hugo.

Or at least next to Flaubert.

And let us recall that Zola was of Italian extraction, and bravely challenged the French governmental authorities in the Dreyfuss Affair with his inflammatory article 'J'accuse!'.

Would that we had more Zolas today...

Definitely agree with Bean that Zola is amongst the most accessible and entertaining of the modernistic French authors: his entire Rougon-Macquart cycle is remarkable and an outstanding achievement.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Reading Baudelaire...

Baudelaire: the greatest of French poets, and an important critic as well.

[loe]

Yes, I agree - Baudelaire is great!

Within the scope of French poetry I would also recommend Rimbaud, Verlaine and Mallarmé.

Best regards

[Emil Miller]

Or at least next to Flaubert.

And let us recall that Zola was of Italian extraction, and bravely challenged the French governmental authorities in the Dreyfuss Affair with his inflammatory article 'J'accuse!'.

Would that we had more Zolas today...

Definitely agree with Bean that Zola is amongst the most accessible and entertaining of the modernistic French authors: his entire Rougon-Macquart cycle is remarkable and an outstanding achievement.

Flaubert is buried in Rouen. Zola was originally buried in the Cimetiere Montmartre but was later disinterred and placed in the crypt that he now shares with Victor Hugo in the Pantheon in Paris. Interestingly, Zola's original grave is still maintained.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Flaubert is buried in Rouen...

Some years ago in Paris we sought out Jim Morrison's grave at Père Lachaise; of course Wilde also lies there under Epstein's monument, and nearby is Chopin where a bevy of schoolgirls were playing the Marche Funebré on a casette tape recorder...

[Emil Miller]

Some years ago in Paris we sought out Jim Morrison's grave at Père Lachaise; of course Wilde also lies there under Epstein's monument, and nearby is Chopin where a bevy of schoolgirls were playing the Marche Funebré on a casette tape recorder...

I didn't know that Epstein was the sculptor for Wilde's tomb, it is a pity that vandals have damaged it. Père Lachaise is extraordinary; a veritable city of the dead with many famous names among its inhabitants. I have often visited it as well as the Montparnasse and Montmartre cemeteries which also have their celebrated personages.