maybe this is what its all about.

[erikwithAk]

disclaimer:
[please excuse my poor puctuation]


where did the old world go?
the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?

that world is gone im afraid lost in time and history'

but...

the ideas and the people are not gone and we are not dead.

we will not hate no matter who they are or what they do, and love them with an uncondisional God-like love...

gay, straight, black, white, male, or female they are all the same in the eyes of god who loves them

we are not to say that what the do is right or wrong but to respect them for why they do it.

i believe that l♥ve is the meaning of life and not hate for hate only brings death

but with death comes life and with life comes death.

that is the balance of this world and that is how things are weather we want them to be or not.

good and evil.
light and darkness.
love and hate.
black and white.

it was all made for a purpose and a reason.

[Kent Edwins]

where did the old world go?
the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?

I don't think there was ever a place like this...

[Morten]

disclaimer:
[please excuse my poor puctuation]


where did the old world go?
the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?


What world is this? The 'old word'? The middle ages when women and non-believers were burnt at the stake? When Africans were torn from their homes and shipped to the US and Europe for slavery? When child labour was still around? When women couldn't vote? When there was no democracy? I don't know what world you're talking about.

Not that we live in 'free' times. Apart from a select few nations around the world, homosexuality is still condemned, from the US to the middle east.

[hellsapoppin]

"the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?"


Somehow I missed out on Utopia!

[sprinks]

As much as people tend to talk about our freedoms now and how better the world is... It still isn't when you think about it, you are exactly right Morten.

Things are better and worse now than they were in this "old world" you speak of, prices are higher, but we have access to more things; there a few more laws in relation to the freedoms of certain groups, but people still don't accept the people in those groups and will judge them no matter what the law says.

But I do agree with your statement of "We are not to say that what the do is right or wrong but to respect them for why they do it."
But as for "i believe that l♥ve is the meaning of life and not hate for hate only brings death" I don't quite completely agree. For example it was love AND hate that brought about Romeo and Juliets deaths...

[Whifflingpin]

"The 'old word'? ...When child labour was still around?"

Child labour is still very much with us - at least 100,000,000 children working in conditions of servitude around the world, including the so-called developed countries. How much more around could it be?

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/modern.htm

[erikwithAk]

thank you all for posting and im sorry if some things confused you.

i guess this is just my ideal.

a world of balance.
even though there will always be hate and discimination is it not better to talk to others about it in hopes that they willo make an effort to change this world we live in for the better?

or am i just a small minded person with no concept of reality and has dreams never to be reached.

well we may know some day...


~erik~

[erikwithAk]

i just re-read mortons post and i think my idea of "the old world" was what the founding fathers had in mind.

[Morten]

thank you all for posting and im sorry if some things confused you.

i guess this is just my ideal.

a world of balance.
even though there will always be hate and discimination is it not better to talk to others about it in hopes that they willo make an effort to change this world we live in for the better?

or am i just a small minded person with no concept of reality and has dreams never to be reached.

well we may know some day...


~erik~

But, please, what was the 'old world' you were talking about?

[erikwithAk]

basicly what the founding faters wrote in the constitution

freedom of this and that ya know?

[erikwithAk]

true. i miss spoke since i said there needs to be a balance.

[Anza]

disclaimer:
[please excuse my poor puctuation]




Spelling too, right??

there's really no defending yourself against them. Especially when they have a point. Even during the Cromagnon-Neanderthal-Caveman days there was discrimination between two people being together, and dislike of people being who they were inside. That comes with human nature, and as long as we are humans, it will not change.

And it's not that you lack reality-- you do have dreams that cannot be reached, though. It's like saying you want world peace. There is too much diversity for that-- rival religions, rival schools, rival football teams, rival countries, rival tribes. It is unattainable, because hatred is also a part of human nature.

But so is love. That would bring about part of the world of which you spoke-- if people would just realize that. But wanting for all of that world will leave you empty inside from timeless wanting.

[mayneverhave]

back when Erics could spell their name however they wanted to!

[Drkshadow03]

Heh. I'm half tempted now to change my user name to EricwithaC. Great user name from one Eric to another.

Anyway, I concur with other people here. There was never a time when differences weren't an issue to fight about and discriminate against others. However, there are also major differences as well from the homophobic and racist discriminations we face now in the modern world.

In the Ancient world (both Greek and Near East) homosexual behavior was tolerated, sometimes even encouraged. It was also probably slightly different from how we understand the term, as most Greeks for example were most likely what they we call bi-sexual. It seems, however, that although men could sleep with each, they still were expected to marry women.

Aristotle in the politics defends slavery on the grounds that it is fine to enslave the outsider, the barbarian. Granted this wasn't quite slavery on racial grounds like we know it today (of course much slavery isn't based on racial grounds today either necessarily, but often comes in the form of gender discrimination).

We know Egyptians had slaves of all sorts. However, again slavery was a very different institution than what appeared in the Americas.

Tradition holds that Moses's wife was black. There are numerous lines in the Bible that also suggest some of the Jewish people interacted with people of black skin, sometimes intermarrying.

However, you'll also see a lot of warnings against marrying Canaanite women or outsiders in the Tanakh. You'll see a lot of denouncing of Canaanite practices, including men sleeping with other men (found in Leviticus). This is not to say I agree with perspective. However, it becomes clear the Ancient world wasn't by any means a Utopia.

In conclusion, the Ancient world's discrimination was based more on tribal identification more than racism as we understand it. However, racism ultimately stems from tribal identification.

---------------------------------------------------

As for the Founding Fathers. While I have the most profound respect for our Founding Fathers and think they sent us along the right path and had a powerful vision for a country that was worthy of that respect in many ways, that doesn't mean these men didn't have their shortcomings. Many of them were slave-holders after all.

When Jefferson writes, "All Men were created equal..." it isn't clear he literally means anything but Whites and anything other than Men (as opposed to women). However, even then I am suggesting you will not find your Utopian society.

With that said, the general sentiments of the line I think represents the direction American has gone and direction we should continue heading towards seeing as all our problems of discrimination have not entirely disappeared.

[erikwithAk]

thank you for that.

realy...

[Drkshadow03]

Heh. Originally I thought this was going to be a post about the hokey pokey.:lol:

I should point out as a salvent to my pessemistic post about the human past that it is perfectly reasonable to take the good, and criticize and completely reject the bad. You're not bound by the past, and in fact there is plenty you can learn from the past.

May I ask what inspired you to write this post?

[hellsapoppin]

While I admire our Founders, they owned slaves and referred to Native Americans as "savages". For this reason, they were not "utopian".

[Drkshadow03]

That's because the very idea of utopia is a misguided myth.

[erikwithAk]

1 part death note

2 parts a kid with a dream of a better world

and the rest is a little too much suger/coffe/monster/caffene

[Drkshadow03]

1 part death note

I assume you mean the anime. Great show, by the way!

The ends do NOT justify the means in Death Note. That's the whole point of the show and why there is a conflict. There is no easy path towards world peace.

[erikwithAk]

i dont believe thats even possible like you or some other said "there will always be hate and discrimination"

[Drkshadow03]

i dont believe thats even possible like you or some other said "there will always be hate and discrimination"

That may be so, it may literally be impossible to end the hate and discrimination in this world, but it also does not mean it isn't worth trying, that we shouldn't act like we could in fact end all the problems tomorrow if more people followed us as an example.

So it stills means one should try their best to help others and treat people like you would want to be treated.

[sprinks]

That may be so, it may literally be impossible to end the hate and discrimination in this world, but it also does not mean it isn't worth trying, that we shouldn't act like we could in fact end all the problems tomorrow if more people followed us as an example.

So it stills means one should try their best to help others and treat people like you would want to be treated.

I absolutely agree with this. Just because we probably can't ever absolutely end hate and descrimination it doesn't mean we all can't do our bit right now to make the world a better and happier place for everyone.

[erikwithAk]

well said and true

[blazeofglory]

disclaimer:
[please excuse my poor puctuation]


where did the old world go?
the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?

that world is gone im afraid lost in time and history'

but...

the ideas and the people are not gone and we are not dead.

we will not hate no matter who they are or what they do, and love them with an uncondisional God-like love...

gay, straight, black, white, male, or female they are all the same in the eyes of god who loves them

we are not to say that what the do is right or wrong but to respect them for why they do it.

i believe that l♥ve is the meaning of life and not hate for hate only brings death

but with death comes life and with life comes death.

that is the balance of this world and that is how things are weather we want them to be or not.

good and evil.
light and darkness.
love and hate.
black and white.

it was all made for a purpose and a reason.

All I have to say is these are words of wisdom and that is all.

[Statistic]

Has anyone considered the possible effects of evolution on our future philosophies? Get ready to read a silly (but hopefully insightful) post:

Maybe we won't kill ourselves with pollution. Maybe one day, technology will be so great that we can prevent the sun from frying us all. And maybe a durastic change in our environment will speed up our physical and mental evolution.

Picture this: A natural disaster slowly changes humans into lizard people. With the physical change also comes a new way of thinking. Our bodies need less, so we develop more efficient means of feeding, watering, and housing our fellow lizardbeings. Without need, there is no conflict, religion is no longer a required crutch. No more wars, starvation, or strife in general. Problem solved, right?

I know this sounds like sci-fi and wishful thinking, but my point is that perhaps, just maybe, there are subtle, undetectable changes taking place in our minds already. Perhaps our clever survival instinct is crafting its own way to keep us alive.

I heard somewhere that interbreeding will eventually result in every human on earth having the complexion of the golf superstar Tiger Woods. So change is already on its way.

This post all boils down to me saying "Perhaps a future utopia is possible".

[blazeofglory]

disclaimer:
[please excuse my poor puctuation]


where did the old world go?
the world where anyone could be anyone they wanted to be and nobody would mind and be with anyone they wanted to be with just for the reasons between the two persons?

that world is gone im afraid lost in time and history'

but...

the ideas and the people are not gone and we are not dead.

we will not hate no matter who they are or what they do, and love them with an uncondisional God-like love...

gay, straight, black, white, male, or female they are all the same in the eyes of god who loves them

we are not to say that what the do is right or wrong but to respect them for why they do it.

i believe that l♥ve is the meaning of life and not hate for hate only brings death

but with death comes life and with life comes death.

that is the balance of this world and that is how things are weather we want them to be or not.

good and evil.
light and darkness.
love and hate.
black and white.

it was all made for a purpose and a reason.

It is really a balanced approach in fact and what we call God. I too beleive that ultimately what we call black and white all will be evened out.