Poetry in the 21st Century

[KyleBennett]

IS poetry as important in the 21st century as it was in the past?

To be honest, I can't name a single popular poet, as in a poet that is known in the mainstream, or one that has had major success. The mainstream, however, is turgid with an abundant amount of prose, one only has to go into a shop in a airport, train, or petrol station, to notice this.




I'm sure this question has been raised before, but would like to hear peoples thoughts on it.

[JBI]

It is as important as it was 300 years ago. Not as important as it was 3000 years ago though.

[KyleBennett]

Yeah it was very important 3000 years ago, as poetry was the only way to memorise literature, and of course the novel is a relatively modern invention compared to poetry. However, probably from my question being vague, what I meant was could modern poetry be as dominant an art form as the novel is nowadays. I find that poetry is only read by students studying English, and is seen by some people as a pompous art form, who associate poetry with Shakespeare and hence people are put of reading poetry.

[JBI]

Poetry is dominant in other parts of the world.

[KyleBennett]

Yeah true, could you elaborate? My question thus should be more culturally specific, I was merely talking about the views of poetry within the United Kingdom... Maybe this is another topic, the different views of poetry in different cultures..

[Kafka's Crow]

Poetry is not popular in Britain and I don't think that it ever was. A thoroughly class-conscious society as the English-speaking world in general and the British Island in particular is, poetry is the prerogative of the upper-middle and the upper classes. The masses would be happy to buy a copy of this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Jordan-Katie-Price/dp/1844540634/ref=pd_bbs_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207501132&sr=8-12
for over £10 than spend a couple of pounds on a cheap anthology of verse. Only students read poetry outside of the above-mentioned classes.

Situation is not the same in other cultures. I have some familiarity with Iranian and the Indo-Subcontinent culture and in these places poetry is more popular. Even in mass-culture and blockbuster movies lines from classical poetry are often quoted. I have an Afghan friend who studied Economics all his life but he can easily identify and explain the few Persian verses and proverbs I know by heart. This kind of love for literature will be immediately labeled 'snobbishness' in England.

[KyleBennett]

Aye Kafka you're at my point exactly again. Snobbishness, upper class, middle class, student... that is what poetry brings to mind sometimes. But this shouldn't be so whatsoever. Poetry should connect with the masses and not send them away feeling uneducated, under-classed, which is basically what I feel like when I read anything which has words which I couldn't have dreamt that existed. But aye those which don't have this vocab, this imagery created from the use of words scavanged from dictionaries, are seen as base...

I see poetry as tacit expression. Why write a paragraph, when a line would do... So yeah the laziness that is instilled in us all should lavish in poetry!

[Kafka's Crow]

Anything intellectual or the use of brain in any other matter than making money is labeled 'snobbishness' by people. You can't even tell people that you studied literature without hesitation as you know they think you wasted your time. Through media and through general societal attitudes, people have been sufficiently dumbed down into believing that thoughtfulness is futile. The result of this much promoted thoughtlessness can be seen in the breakdown of family values, selfishness and greed. Common sense and any aesthetic preference are considered 'boring' in an age of immediate gratification and shallow tastes. Poetry can not thrive in such societies. When the upper classes become so high that they disappear and when middle classes are always under increasing pressure to avoid being dragged down on the socio-economic ladder, patronage of the arts dies. At the end of the day, as TS Eliot said, 'The poetry does not matter.'

[blazeofglory]

IS poetry as important in the 21st century as it was in the past?

To be honest, I can't name a single popular poet, as in a poet that is known in the mainstream, or one that has had major success. The mainstream, however, is turgid with an abundant amount of prose, one only has to go into a shop in a airport, train, or petrol station, to notice this.




I'm sure this question has been raised before, but would like to hear peoples thoughts on it.

Let us poetry as it is, purely and impeccably.

Poetry is humman expression, a vechile for communicating something that remains deep seated.

The question whether or not poetry as a form of art remains still appreciated with time is intriguing. Poetry is still a powerful means of expression, and we see songs in growing numbers. Songs are too integrally the other lyrical form of poems, or to put it a little differently it is a more simplified form of poetry.

Poetry may take different shapes but I am sure it will not die out. It is really a means of the expression of something that lies at the core of the inner self.

All of us kind of have feelings and as long as we live with them poetry goes on not only surviviing but alos floursing.

[stlukesguild]

To a great extent I agree with your statement, Kafka... There has long been a sort of reverse "snobbery" that I find I particularly disconcerting... an anti-intellectualism, which sneers at anything which requires intellect, great effort or achieves a high standard having nothing to do with practicality or making money. I certainly believe that there is an "elitism" to art... some art IS better than other art... some art makes greater demands upon the audience. I don't see this idea as at all being "snobbish"... we have no trouble admitting that certain athletes are better than others or certain consumer products are better than others. Art is elitist... but it is an elective affinity. My preferences for art are not formed by my wealth or my social status. Unfortunately it has long seemed as if art is one of the trappings of social status. To admit to a liking for poetry or theater or the opera or painting is often seen as questionable within certain social groups. Reading Stephen King and listening to "classic rock" may be fine... but reading Rilke and listening to Puccini? Unfortunately, there has almost always been a sort of social status linked with art. Michelangelo and Rubens did not work for the masses. Bach was not composing for the masses. Neither were Dante or Milton writing for the masses. Of course there's Shakespeare... he always throws a kink in the works doesn't he?

Perhaps the only real change from the past is that the money involved in the popular arts... in entertainment for the masses... now far outstrips that of "high art". With mass delivery systems such as printing and recorded music, etc... The poet and the novelist and the composer has been able to reach a far greater audience. Unfortunately... as art is an elective affinity, many serious artists find that the mass audience doesn't want to be reached. They don't want an art that makes demands upon them. They want something that will entertain. The traditional visual arts still have not faced this dilemma as they have always depended upon the support of the wealthiest patrons because of the very nature of the work: One cannot spend weeks or months (or even years) upon a single sculpture or painting... utilizing costly materials such as gold leaf, cadmium, lapis lazuli, etc... and then sell it for $29.95 framed. Still, there is the influx of the artistic tastes of highly wealthy patrons with teenage tastes in art which have led to the recent flood of shock art and paintings based upon popular art forms such as television, comic books, porno films, etc...

Part of the dilemma here is that the very delivery systems that have led to the explosion of the popular arts (and many... myself included... would add also led to the dumbing down of the arts) also led to a greater access for artists to an audience (certainly we can't imagine Miles Davis... or Philip Glass... having the ability to reach an audience anywhere near the scale of which they were able to with the aid of modern recording technology. At the same time, this has lead to a greater access to the arts for the audience. I have the possibility of listening to Puccini, reading Dante, and looking at Matisse (if not in person... although with the growth of museums in the last century or so, even that is not an impossibility... at least in a high-quality photographic reproduction)... all within my own home. Of course the choice is all mine. I can just as well stick with my Dan Brown, Def Leppard, and Thomas Kinkade.

[Sweets America]

That's true that it is sometimes seen as being snobbish to enjoy poetry or literature. I've seen people's faces when I told them I was studying at university. And it's not only about literature, it was the same reactions when I studied psychology. And when they hear I'm currently in my 6th year of university, some of them cannot believe how I a 'wasting my time'. But we just don't have the same priorities or ways of life. I study cause I like it, that's all, I think more of the present moment than about the future, whereas they are already telling me that if I study too much, I will go to work too late and I'll have trouble with my retirement! :lol: I keep in mind that I might die tomorrow and I prefer not planning my future too much.

Oh, second important point. I enjoy poetry, paintings or writing even if it's considered snobbish, but I also dearly love Stephen King and I won't stop loving him because he's despised by some people who actually became snobbish. :p Poor Stephen, he's always the example people put forward when they talk about 'bad' or 'mass' literature. I think I just don't care about what is considered good or bad, I live for myself.

Oh, and about 21th century poets, you've got Galway Kinnell, I love his poetry.

[Lioness_Heart]

Personally, I love poetry. I'm not a literature sudent (I'm (nearly) a physics student) and I have met lots of people - surprisingly, more humanities students than science ones - who think poetry is a waste of time.

I don't get that AT ALL. Poetry is one of the ultimate ways of expressing yourself - good poetry is a means of exploring and portraying what it is to exist. But people don't seem so concerned with the 'quest for knowlege' and the search for what it means to be human any more. It's like the way that people perceive arts and science as being opposite ends of the spectrum, when they are both concerned with seeking a common truth.

It's a shame that people don't like poetry so much any more, but more literature is being consumed. And while I admit to sometimes beng a literature snob :blush: that's got to be good, surely? If people get used to reading as a pastime, isn't it only a matter of time before they go in search of great literature, and then onto poetry?

I'll finish with something my English teacher keeps maintaining. I kind of see his point. he says that poetry is being consumed far more now than ever before in the form of the lyrics of music. I guess, like with any art, the quality varies, but is after all in the eye/ear of the beholder. So perhaps all is not lost for the poetry world...

[JBI]

Many songs had poetic lyrics before now. I know Germany has a strong Lieder tradition, as do many other countries with similar variants. Even folk music has existed in uncommercialized form. I hardly think the words to a Britney Spears song, or whatever people listen to today count as poetry. I'm skeptical about referring to Poe's work as poetry, The Backstreet boys don't even pass as readable, let alone listenable, to me.

[KyleBennett]

Lyrics are definately one of the main ways of communicating poetry:

"Trying hard not to hear
But they talk so loud
Their piercing sounds fill my ears
Try to fill me with doubt
Yet I know that the goal
Is to keep me from falling" Leona Lewis

Such lyrics are poetical? And are consumed by the masses. However terrible the poetry, and however terrible the music it still reaches people.
So I guess yeah our culture has transformed poetry into a form that is "acceptable"....

However I entirely disagree that liking good poetry/literature is snobbish in any sense of the manner. Unless you look down on others... then it becomes a different matter.

[JBI]

That isn't poetry, that is slush. I don't know the song, so can't judge it musically, but those lyrics are absolute thoughtless rubbish in terms of poetic inventiveness, and expression.

[Lioness_Heart]

However I entirely disagree that liking good poetry/literature is snobbish in any sense of the manner. Unless you look down on others... then it becomes a different matter.

lol, but I guess it comes back to what people were saying before about how if you like good literature, poetry etc you appear snobbish. It's like how I play the piano and my boyfriend is in a band, or his "comedy folk trio" and it's socially acceptable for him to talk about his music but not for me to talk about mine (unless I'm with other friends who like classical music).

[KyleBennett]

hm aye appearing snobbish is quite a difficult thing to shake off. But then I guess if a link between the different forms of art.. either Pianist and Folk Band... or Poetry/Novel... or in my case Literature/Banksy with my flat mates.. then I guess an understanding could be created. I guess it completely depends on peoples attitudes of acceptance. My mates don't think i'm snobbish/appear just cause I enjoy poetry- they respect it. But aye it's completely about the way it is portrayed, and how you make it appear.

[firefangled]

IS poetry as important in the 21st century as it was in the past?

To be honest, I can't name a single popular poet, as in a poet that is known in the mainstream, or one that has had major success. The mainstream, however, is turgid with an abundant amount of prose, one only has to go into a shop in a airport, train, or petrol station, to notice this.




I'm sure this question has been raised before, but would like to hear peoples thoughts on it.

Read Poetry and Democracy by Robert Penn Warren.

[Kent Edwins]

How about things like Def Jam poetry and it rap and hip hop lyrics? And please, no sweeping generalizations about how so in so is all about murdering and gang violence.