(polite) conversation and manners??? - need advice

[SleepyWitch]

hey guys,
yesterday my bf and me were invited to the 70th birthday party of his uncle(the husband of the sister of my boyfriend's mother) .
the general background is this: my bf's mother suffers from multiple sclerosis and has lived in a nursing home for 10+ years. My bf's aunt (her sister) didn't visit her in all those years because of some silly conflict they had in their youth, while my bf's father visits his wife up to 3 times a week and raised my bf and his sister on his own (= HERO!!!!). But for some reason the aunt was pissed off and broke off contact with my bf's family. Anyway, to get to the point, they kinda started reconciling lately. They met up for the first time in years a couple of weeks ago and then we all got invited to the uncle's birthday.
Anyway, there were loads of people there who didn't really know each other although they are all distantly related. they even called each other "Sie", a respectful form of address in German.... there is no real equivalent in English but it would be kind of like calling your own cousins "Sir" or "Madam", which hasn't really been the norm here since the 19th century.

anyway, most of those people struck me as kinda provincial but they thought they had the sun shining out of their a*se. I mean, I can be really rude sometimes, but at least I know my place in the social ladder and I don't try to be anything I'm not. Many of these ppl were like peasants with too much money for their own good.
E.g. there was a selection of wines to pick from, but everyone ended up ordering beer or coke. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with beer (except that it really did NOT go together with the food that was served; the food wasn't the best, either, mind you, but wine would have matched it much better). but why make a fuss about the wine, if you're not going to drink it anyway?
then, when there was the main course, all the men and even some of the women bowed their heads over the plate, stuck their tongues out and gobbled down the food as if a tiger was after them and it was their last meal ever.
so, I learned that you should sit up straight and lift the fork to your mouth, not stick your head in your plate with your tongue lolling down all the way to your knees :confused: :confused: what's become of that rule? has it changed?
what if they portion is too large? my sister-in-law and me couldn't finish our meal because it was too much, so we just told the waiter "it was great, but we can't eat so much" with a friendly smile and he seemed OK with that. Do you need to gobble down a huge mountain of food if you are full?

what's more, I wasn't sure whether they'd have a special veggie meal for me (I was the only veggie), but I was prepared to eat whatever they put in front of me (even meat). I thought seeing as I'm the only veggie and I know what these kinds of restaurants and old people like the uncle are like, I won't make a fuss. So I instructed my bf to keep shut and not ask me "Are you OK? How is your food?" blablabla all the time, because I didn't want to draw any attention to myself and explain to 80 year old village grannies what a veggie is.
but some of the more obnoxious ppl around me kept grumbling about the food. for example this one woman kept commenting on the texture of the butter and the other talked about the dryness of the rosé wine... the point is, the butter woman was complaining, but not really.. I mean, she wasn't too happy about the butter but not unhappy enough to skip the bread and butter course. On the on hand, she was gobbling bread and butter and on the other she was going on about how it's not the best she's ever had...... wtf? I mean, either you really can't eat something because it's really disgusting and you just can't force yourself to eat it. in this case you either leave it there and wait for the next course or you complain to the waiter. Or you just shut up and eat, right? I mean, if it was good enough for her to eat lots of it, why moan about it? :confused: are there any rules about food-related small talk? I mean, when ppl have nothing else to talk about, they usually end up talking about the food. what do I do if someone b!tches about their food but eats it anyway?

anyway, the butter woman tried to make conversation with my hubbers and asked where we lived. so he said we live in Fürth and asked her where she lives. Then she said "So where do you usually go to the disco?" and my hubbers started to explain the disco situation in Fürth, Nüremberg and half of our district. He kept talking and talking and talking and finally kinda added that he doesn't really go to the disco a lot. At this point I smiled at him and said in a Oscar Wildish way "You don't go to discos at all, my dear!". The butter woman was really shocked and so was her 80 y/o grandmother: "what you don't go at all?" this woman was from the countryside where everyone goes to discos all the time and thinks it's soooooo coool, but the only reason they really go there is because there isn't anything else to do if you don't fancy cows. From this point on the butter woman left us alone (good riddance!) and my hubbers talked to her father about things they were both interested in.
so, which is more rude? asking people "what do you like to do of a weekend?" after you've chatted for a while or putting them in a pigeon hole right from the start and forcing them to prattle on like my hubbers did about the discos? I mean what's the point in telling the bloody woman about all the discos in the region if you don't like going there? if she starts the conversation and she puts us into a pigeon whole, would it be very impolite to say "Well, we don't go to discos, do you?" and if she doesn't aks her what she does instead?
my bf's cousin and his wife were not like this (the wife is from a really loaded family, but she started *****ing about the highschool she went to straight away and asked me about my studies.). The cousin is an engineer and told us about his work after asking me about my studies. ....

anyway.... Is it just me or are there loads of wanna-be's around who think they are so posh but don't really have any manners?
do I need to suck up to people like the butter-woman who have nothing to do with the uncle who's birthday it was (seeing as it was the aunt who split the family apart in the first place and the butter-woman was a distant relation of the uncle?)
grrrrrrrrrrrrr? sorry for rambling so much

[manolia]

Hahaha i have no real answer to your questions but you surely made me laugh. Thanks. Perhaps you should turn this experience to a witty short story (seing that you write pretty good).

Perhaps this is what they call generation gap?

[Koa]

I don't see the issue. Forced meetings with distant family are just events to sit through and pray they end soon, while enduring all the hipocrisy and façade. Small talk is the point of it and I don't see why your husband (sorry can't use those silly terms of endearments) went into explanations instead of saying in the sharpest yet polite way that he doesn't give a sh** about disco... That's what I usually do when I'm asked the usual crap, do I have a boyfriend, why not, etc.
Once I was told by a distant cousin of my mum's that he thought I was 15 years old because I don't wear make-up. I was 21 at the time and I'm still offended. I even stopped pretending to be polite. I love to destroy their small-thinking world (he was also a guy from a village where they're so bored that they start painting themselves when they're 12) and always do my best for that. Haven't been in such situation for a while thankfully. I'm probably going to a wedding in June and even if it's not family so it should be relatively fun, I'm already in a bad mood about it :lol: I will have to talk with guys and pretend to be normal, aaarggh

[Pensive]

They make me laugh. Such parties. Great events for observation and a good laugh.

[Lioness_Heart]

lol Sleepy!!! Can't offer any advice but felt I had to comment sice I've just been chortling to myself while reading that.

It sounds quite painful. In those situations, I just try to be invisible and not talk to anyone. Probably won't get away with that much longer though, when I don't have the excuse of being a teenager.

[Sweets America]

I don't see the issue. Forced meetings with distant family are just events to sit through and pray they end soon, while enduring all the hipocrisy and façade. Small talk is the point of it and I don't see why your husband (sorry can't use those silly terms of endearments) went into explanations instead of saying in the sharpest yet polite way that he doesn't give a sh** about disco... That's what I usually do when I'm asked the usual crap, do I have a boyfriend, why not, etc.
Once I was told by a distant cousin of my mum's that he thought I was 15 years old because I don't wear make-up. I was 21 at the time and I'm still offended. I even stopped pretending to be polite. I love to destroy their small-thinking world (he was also a guy from a village where they're so bored that they start painting themselves when they're 12) and always do my best for that. Haven't been in such situation for a while thankfully. I'm probably going to a wedding in June and even if it's not family so it should be relatively fun, I'm already in a bad mood about it :lol: I will have to talk with guys and pretend to be normal, aaarggh

Funny, I've had people telling me the same things about boyfriends and such. If you don't wear make-up or don't have a boyfriend, you're a freak for some people. :lol: And if you read books you're a freak too. God, most of the times I'm happy not to be 'normal'.

[kratsayra]

I'm sorry you had to endure such an experience, Sleepy. I'm terrible at small talk and bizarre social situations, so I fear I can't offer much advice. I hope someone offers an answer to your question about what type of small talk about the food is permissible and what is not. It's an interesting dilemma.

It's fascinating to realize how everyone seems to have these provincial relatives . . . I feel much the same way about my mom's family. Well, I think they have decent table manners, but they are just so far removed from how I live, what I think about, what I study. You know, they probably think everyone in Africa lives in huts. That sort of thing.

If I were asked about the disco, as your bf was, I would probably have said, "I don't really go to the disco" and they would have all been shocked, and I would have felt embarrassed, and that would have been the end. That's usually how I deal with things, by saying less, but that probably isn't the best solution.

[Pensive]

Funny, I've had people telling me the same things about boyfriends and such. If you don't wear make-up or don't have a boyfriend, you're a freak for some people. :lol: And if you read books you're a freak too. God, most of the times I'm happy not to be 'normal'.

Actually I don't think we have 'not having a boyfriend' something considered freakish here thankfully but I can relate to the other two, especially make-up. My views on make-up might make a few friends feel not very good but I also find it my duty to express my views about it on being asked why I don't wear any.... :p

[Sweets America]

Actually I don't think we have 'not having a boyfriend' something considered freakish here thankfully but I can relate to the other two, especially make-up. My views on make-up might make a few friends feel not very good but I also find it my duty to express my views about it on being asked why I don't wear any.... :p

As for me, I don't have any strong view against make-up and I could wear some if I wanted to, it's just that I don't feel like doing so. Also when I wore make-up (I did when I danced and did shows when I was younger), it felt very unpleasant on my face.
Make-up is sometimes nice on girls (on guys too :p ), but I am just not into it for myself. Or maybe I'm lazy too? But I have the feeling it would look fake on me.
Maybe if someone pissed you off about your not wearing make-up, you could reply 'that's because I don't need it, contrary to you.' :D

[barbara0207]

Hahaha i have no real answer to your questions but you surely made me laugh. Thanks. Perhaps you should turn this experience to a witty short story (seing that you write pretty good).

Yes, certainly very funny, Sleepy. :lol: :lol: :lol: It seems that your parents taught you everything about good manners at social events - and then there are people whose parents didn't. C'est la vie. And it becomes real-life satire where upstarts are concerned. So you should really write a story about it as Manolia suggests. (Or else ... I will:) )


Perhaps this is what they call generation gap?

Nope, these people are all over the place, no matter what generation. :D

[kilted exile]

I usually try to do the following in polite company:

Whatever I instinctively want to do/say, I say/do the exact opposite instead


(Luckily for me I am not in polite company often)

[Shalot]

Small talk sucks and I am terrible at it, myself. I have no advice. I find myself in those situations saying the wrong thing, or forgetting who I am talking to, and I bring up something that someone from that generation would find offensive. Seriously, the best thing you do is show up for a while, smile and agree with whatever the old people say. Then leave early and go home and have a giant beer.

[Sweets America]

Small talk is not really for me either. Anyway, people do not talk with me that much during those kinds of dinners because they must read on my face that it pisses me off. :p And when I talk about my studies, or the fact that I like reading or writing and that I'm not into night-clubs, they back off and talk to someone else. :lol:

[Pensive]

As for me, I don't have any strong view against make-up and I could wear some if I wanted to, it's just that I don't feel like doing so. Also when I wore make-up (I did when I danced and did shows when I was younger), it felt very unpleasant on my face.
Make-up is sometimes nice on girls (on guys too :p ), but I am just not into it for myself. Or maybe I'm lazy too? But I have the feeling it would look fake on me.
Maybe if someone pissed you off about your not wearing make-up, you could reply 'that's because I don't need it, contrary to you.' :D

Well, this surely is a good way to get that person annoyed enough not to ask this again but it would be kind of dishonest seeing that I don't think make-up makes one look better. :p I think it adds a very unnatural feeling to one's face, especially over-done makeup which is very common as far as I see.

As for people's reaction in the parties (especially these women/girls parties), I have learnt to laugh it off. As long as these are people I am not very close with. The surly and vain expressions indicating not a good form of jealousy on many people's faces as well as their comments trying to make them look superior to everybody else can even be fascinating....

[Virgil]

anyway.... Is it just me or are there loads of wanna-be's around who think they are so posh but don't really have any manners?
do I need to suck up to people like the butter-woman who have nothing to do with the uncle who's birthday it was (seeing as it was the aunt who split the family apart in the first place and the butter-woman was a distant relation of the uncle?)
grrrrrrrrrrrrr? sorry for rambling so much

I don't exactly see what was wrong with them. So they didn't know how to match wine with food. Is that a crime? So they bragged a little about something or other. What's the big deal? So you couldn't find something in common to talk about. How much of an effort did you make? Would they say after the event, my what a brilliant conversationalist that Sleepywitch is? Actually my wife comes away reacting the same from her family get togethers. All I can say is, they're just being human, and i bet someone looking at you would have some reaction to something as well. You ask is it you? My opinion, yes. To me you came across very snobby Sleepy.

Perhaps a component is generational. Actually I find it strange that some of you younger people think nothing of people with tattoos and piercings, make up that looks like you're from another planet, :alien: hair styles that look like you gotten cut from a blind man, clothes that are basically rags with crotches down to your knees and exposed rear ends, and you find people, who may be less sophisticated, trying to feel their way through a somewhat stressful family get together upseting. :lol:

[SleepyWitch]

I don't exactly see what was wrong with them. So they didn't know how to match wine with food. Is that a crime? So they bragged a little about something or other. What's the big deal? So you couldn't find something in common to talk about. How much of an effort did you make? Would they say after the event, my what a brilliant conversationalist that Sleepywitch is? Actually my wife comes away reacting the same from her family get togethers. All I can say is, they're just being human, and i bet someone looking at you would have some reaction to something as well. You ask is it you? My opinion, yes. To me you came across very snobby Sleepy.

Perhaps a component is generational. Actually I find it strange that some of you younger people think nothing of people with tattoos and piercings, make up that looks like you're from another planet, :alien: hair styles that look like you gotten cut from a blind man, clothes that are basically rags with crotches down to your knees and exposed rear ends, and you find people, who may be less sophisticated, trying to feel their way through a somewhat stressful family get together upseting. :lol:

yeah, I guess you're right, Virgil: I am very snobby :D but I guess I am snobby for different reasons than you may think. I didn't mind talking to those weird ppl at all and I wouldn't mind getting to know them, even if it's only small talk. but I'm confused about the rules of conversation, e.g. about the disco thingy: I'm perfectly fine talking about peoples hobbies and things, but I think it would be easier to talk about those things if people asked each other questions (like "do you like going to discos?") instead of just assuming that everybody is interested in the same things. I mean, if the butter-woman likes going to the disco, that's fine with me and I'd even be willing to ask her which one she likes best or what music she likes etc. But when people just pounce on you like that it's a bit difficult. I don't think my hobbies are any better or more interesting than hers and it's precisely because of this that I would never go up to someone and say "So where do you usually go to the swimming pool?" or "So what books have your read lately?". I'd either wait till they tell me about their hobbies of their own accord or I'd ask them "So what do you like doing?". But I'm not sure if this approach isn't too direct or even impolite. So what's your advice?

[papayahed]

yeah, I guess you're right, Virgil: I am very snobby :D but I guess I am snobby for different reasons than you may think. I didn't mind talking to those weird ppl at all and I wouldn't mind getting to know them, even if it's only small talk. but I'm confused about the rules of conversation, e.g. about the disco thingy: I'm perfectly fine talking about peoples hobbies and things, but I think it would be easier to talk about those things if people asked each other questions (like "do you like going to discos?") instead of just assuming that everybody is interested in the same things. I mean, if the butter-woman likes going to the disco, that's fine with me and I'd even be willing to ask her which one she likes best or what music she likes etc. But when people just pounce on you like that it's a bit difficult. I don't think my hobbies are any better or more interesting than hers and it's precisely because of this that I would never go up to someone and say "So where do you usually go to the swimming pool?" or "So what books have your read lately?". I'd either wait till they tell me about their hobbies of their own accord or I'd ask them "So what do you like doing?". But I'm not sure if this approach isn't too direct or even impolite. So what's your advice?

In this case I'd say to answer butter woman with a redirect (if possible) something like We don't really go to discos we spend a good deal of time swimming and reading.

Showing interest isn't impolite, asking about hobbies, interests is all perfectly fine. Unless of course you ask something totally inapropriate like "I hear your son has been jailed for male prostitution, how's he doing?".

And you can always talk about the weather..

[Virgil]

When I was younger and involved with those kinds of conversation I would be more probing than divulging. I would try to steer the conversation toward letting them talk and thereby trying to figure out what makes them tick. Plus I usually felt a sense of shyness and awkwardness with older people. With age I think i'm more likely to put people into catagories right away and not be curious. Now I'll bounce around with various conversations and join one that piques my interest, perhaps one on baseball or politics or whatever is a hot conversation. I seek out my own entertainment now rather than wait for it to come my way.

[SleepyWitch]

When I was younger and involved with those kinds of conversation I would be more probing than divulging. I would try to steer the conversation toward letting them talk and thereby trying to figure out what makes them tick. Plus I usually felt a sense of shyness and awkwardness with older people. With age I think i'm more likely to put people into catagories right away and not be curious. Now I'll bounce around with various conversations and join one that piques my interest, perhaps one on baseball or politics or whatever is a hot conversation. I seek out my own entertainment now rather than wait for it to come my way.

that sounds like a cool strategy. I'll try it in the future. couldn't do it at this party though because we were all stuck at the tables. the room was too small for so many ppl and every one had to remain seated because there was no room to walk around, plus there was food all the time, so people had to eat a lot and stay were they were in between courses

[Petrarch's Love]

yeah, I guess you're right, Virgil: I am very snobby but I guess I am snobby for different reasons than you may think. I didn't mind talking to those weird ppl at all and I wouldn't mind getting to know them, even if it's only small talk. but I'm confused about the rules of conversation, e.g. about the disco thingy: I'm perfectly fine talking about peoples hobbies and things, but I think it would be easier to talk about those things if people asked each other questions (like "do you like going to discos?") instead of just assuming that everybody is interested in the same things.

:lol: Sleepy, your O.P. had me cracking up. I think we've all had dinners with people complaining about the butter. I agree with Virg., though, that you came across in that post (and possibly came across to these people) as a bit snobby. The problem that I'm seeing in your post quoted above is that what you're asking is whether these people are transgressing the rules of conversation: shouldn't they be asking less rude questions/ saying less complaining things about butter/ be more considerate of me? The answer may be that yes, these people aren't the greatest masters of making smooth and engaging small talk with you and they're a bit provincial. People say slightly rude or awkward things all the time. You're being just as bad, if not worse, and certainly not helping the situation, though, when you sit there fuming and judging them about breaking rules of social politeness. Social politeness, incidently, has nothing to do with whether you're grabbing a beer or a glass of fine Merlot. It has to do with putting others at ease and making things pleasant for the others even when they haven't necessarily made things pleasant for you. You can't control whether others follow the rules. You can only control yourself, and your role in such a situation is to lead by example and be polite and solicitous yourself. If someone asks an awkward question about discoteques they're probably just trying to say something they think might interest you, or possibly they're interested in finding out about discoteques in your area so they can go there themselves. You can respond by saying that you don't really go to discoteques a lot, you prefer a quiet evening reading at home, but you know a little about the discoteque offerings in the area. Then you ask the person if they're interested in going to discoteques in your area, if they like to go to the discoteque, and which ones they think are the best.

People will always be happy if you are making a legitimate effort to talk about them, and learn about their life and interests, and almost any awkward question can be deflected into a return question that makes you come off as an interested conversationalist. For example, I not infrequently have gotten the infamous Bridget Jonesian "so why don't you have a boyfriend/husband right now" question. Usually I respond to this with a quick allusion to the usual right guy hasn't come along/ been busy building my career thing and then ask the inquisitor about how he or she met his or her significant other. This gets the pressure off me, and also sometimes leads to some cute romance meeting stories. The question turn around thing, handled right, can also be a subtle and acceptable way to pointedly show people they're being nosy. For example, say someone asks how much money you make per annum, and you really don't think it's polite to inquire into peoples' finances. You answer the question with a vague "I do well enough" and then ask it right back. Either the other person will be itching to brag and disclose his six digit salary instantly, in which case you can now smile and say "how good for you," and go on to talk about his business success, or he'll see that this was a slightly rude question and just respond with a similar "I do well enough." Either way, you've gotten out of it without having to compare the specifics of your meagre graduate income with a business tycoon, and said tycoon is likely to go away either flattered at your praise for his disclosed six digits, or respecting you for your small talk acumen.

[SleepyWitch]

It has to do with putting others at ease and making things pleasant for the others even when they haven't necessarily made things pleasant for you. You can't control whether others follow the rules. You can only control yourself, and your role in such a situation is to lead by example and be polite and solicitous yourself.
yeah, I guess you're right there. so I suppose the problem in this case was that I didn't dare to set an example because I got intimidated by those people. Plus, my hubbers got intimidated by them even more and I didn't want to openly disagree with him because then they'd think "Oh my God, what a b!tch this guy's gf is" and that would reflect badly on him. So I think my hubbers and me should discuss this and sort out who plays what part? Part of the problem is that I'm the boss and he's the housewife in our relationship. He hates talking to the butter-women of this world even more than me... I think I could handle them in a polite way on my own, actually. But when the butter-woman descended on my hubbers I tried to rush to his defence, because I knew that's what he wanted me to do. He was actually happy that I scared her off. Of course, these people assume that he's the boss and I'm the stupid little girl who's just his appendix, so whatever I do reflects on him and it doesn't make any difference to them whether he actually wanted me to scare them away. :confused:

PS: about the wine and beer. I totally agree. I'd be perfectly happy to drink beer with the 'wrong' food or the 'wrong' wine with the wrong food. If it's done in a confident way that's great, but those folks were self-conscious and commented on the wrongness of it while doing it. So next time I'll just tell them "Yeah, well, as long as you like it, who cares?" :D

[ClaesGefvenberg]

Thank's Sleepy :thumbs_up I needed a good laugh, and that tale made my day :thumbs_up
God, most of the times I'm happy not to be 'normal'.Well said. Besides, what is normal anyway? According to whom?


Maybe if someone pissed you off about your not wearing make-up, you could reply 'that's because I don't need it, contrary to you.' :DOr maybe -I've been told I don't need make-up" would suffice?


So you should really write a story about it as Manolia suggests. Yes, please... You already started it anyway. :D :thumbs_up


Nope, these people are all over the place, no matter what generation. :DThat, I'm afraid, seems to be entirely correct. In my experience, a fool will generally remain a fool, irrespective of age....


Now I'll bounce around with various conversations and join one that piques my interest, perhaps one on baseball or politics or whatever is a hot conversation. I seek out my own entertainment now rather than wait for it to come my way.Hear, hear... Perhaps it is something that comes with age, because that is exactly what I do as well. :thumbs_up

/Claes

[kratsayra]

When I was younger and involved with those kinds of conversation I would be more probing than divulging. I would try to steer the conversation toward letting them talk and thereby trying to figure out what makes them tick. Plus I usually felt a sense of shyness and awkwardness with older people. With age I think i'm more likely to put people into catagories right away and not be curious. Now I'll bounce around with various conversations and join one that piques my interest, perhaps one on baseball or politics or whatever is a hot conversation. I seek out my own entertainment now rather than wait for it to come my way.

This part of your post Virgil made me think of something that I was going to ask in this thread but that wasn't entirely relevant. Perhaps because I'm somewhat quiet, although not shy about talking about myself, I often end up in situations where the other person I'm talking to just keeps asking me questions - question after question after question. And before I have a chance to ask them something ". . . and how about you?" they've asked me yet another! I'm sure this is partially me and partially them, but it's very frustrating. I'm sure you asked questions much more reasonably than these people with whom I've spoken, Virgil. ;)

I guess I could just figure out how to say "and how about you" more quickly before they have a chance to ask something else! Any ideas?

[barbara0207]

This part of your post Virgil made me think of something that I was going to ask in this thread but that wasn't entirely relevant. Perhaps because I'm somewhat quiet, although not shy about talking about myself, I often end up in situations where the other person I'm talking to just keeps asking me questions - question after question after question. And before I have a chance to ask them something ". . . and how about you?" they've asked me yet another! I'm sure this is partially me and partially them, but it's very frustrating. I'm sure you asked questions much more reasonably than these people with whom I've spoken, Virgil. ;)

I guess I could just figure out how to say "and how about you" more quickly before they have a chance to ask something else! Any ideas?

Your story reminds me of a very awkward (official) dinner. My husband placed me next to a woman who was a complete stranger to me. He knew that she was very uncomfortable in society and asked me to take care of her and entertain her a bit.

I introduced myself and started probing what kind of small talk might suit her. The conversation went something like this:

Have you got children?
Two.
Ah, I've got two children too, they're six and ten. How old are yours?
Seven and nine.
I talked a bit about my daughters hoping she might have something to say about her kids. I mean, all parents love talking about their kids, don't they? But all I got out of her were the same monosyllabic answers. I tried other subjects - same result. I'm not a very good talker if there's no response, I need a conversation that is give and take so at a certain point I ran out of subjects. I was obviously the wrong person to 'entertain' this lady. Boy was I glad when the dinner was over.

Hm, now everybody cries 'digression' - perhaps I just wanted to avoid telling you about that other dinner when I made a complete fool of myself. Perhaps tomorrow ... :D

[Taliesin]

I generally don't like get-togethers like that and forced small-talk. Quite often it feels as if one side is interrogating the other and both are feeling strange about it.
*We must have a conversation although we have nothing to talk about or it will seem socially awkward! Er, let's talk about some kind of topic that interests neither of us just so that we would talk about something!*

Virgils tactic is, I think, what I also use in parties and gatherings - bounce around and listen where people are talking about interesting things and then blend in.

[Virgil]

This part of your post Virgil made me think of something that I was going to ask in this thread but that wasn't entirely relevant. Perhaps because I'm somewhat quiet, although not shy about talking about myself, I often end up in situations where the other person I'm talking to just keeps asking me questions - question after question after question. And before I have a chance to ask them something ". . . and how about you?" they've asked me yet another! I'm sure this is partially me and partially them, but it's very frustrating. I'm sure you asked questions much more reasonably than these people with whom I've spoken, Virgil. ;)

I guess I could just figure out how to say "and how about you" more quickly before they have a chance to ask something else! Any ideas?

There is definitely an art to conversation. I've gotten better over the years. I'm not sure how I do it. I guess if I feel uncomfortable I'll try to make an escape to a different conversation. Seating arrangements can alter that strategy, but I guess I usually have my wife beside for me to ignore someone if I wish. Also I'm not a pretty young lady such as yourself to have a persistent questioner. ;)

[Koa]

Your story reminds me of a very awkward (official) dinner. My husband placed me next to a woman who was a complete stranger to me. He knew that she was very uncomfortable in society and asked me to take care of her and entertain her a bit.

I introduced myself and started probing what kind of small talk might suit her. The conversation went something like this:

Have you got children?
Two.
Ah, I've got two children too, they're six and ten. How old are yours?
Seven and nine.
I talked a bit about my daughters hoping she might have something to say about her kids. I mean, all parents love talking about their kids, don't they? But all I got out of her were the same monosyllabic answers. I tried other subjects - same result. I'm not a very good talker if there's no response, I need a conversation that is give and take so at a certain point I ran out of subjects. I was obviously the wrong person to 'entertain' this lady. Boy was I glad when the dinner was over.

Hm, now everybody cries 'digression' - perhaps I just wanted to avoid telling you about that other dinner when I made a complete fool of myself. Perhaps tomorrow ... :D

This reminds me of my housemates, especially one. We haven't bonded at all but I can do small talk with one of them, I can do with another of them if he starts, but with the third, no way. When we had just moved in I tried and talked a lot and I hate to be the only one talking... Now I don't even try anymore, I just say 'hi' to him. This is after some attempts at conversation went as follows:

Me: Hi
He: Hi
Me: So how are you?
He: Fine
Me babbles away about something but gets tired of not getting answers that are longer than a word.

Or:
Me: Hi
He: Hi
Me: So how are you?
He: Fine
Me: So what did you do today?
He: Nothing.
(rrright, how am I meant to pursue a conversation this way???)

My favourite though was:
Me: Hi
He: Hi
Me: Wow I've just come back home, the weather is AMAZING today
[and believe me, it's a real event here]
He: Hmm.
:crash: Me shuts up and has desisted from small talk ever since.

I just feel so totally awkward with him that I try and avoid the kitchen if he's around. Ok small talk is silly but it's a way to break the ice... which has never really broken in this house as far as I'm concerned. And my friends now that I'm not a silent person, I'm extremely talkative but I need to be put at ease, and the failure of my attempts put me off big time.

[Virgil]

You reminded me Koa of a fellow at work who can literaly go the whole day without speaking. I find it amazing. He just sits at his computer and does whatever his job is and not a peep out of him. Once actually we had desks near each other, and the extent of our conversation might be this:
He walks in in the morning and nods his head while I'm sitting at my desk.
Me: Hi Sammy.
Him: Hello
He sits down. I'm working, he's working, I'm talking to the other people in the room, he's just silently working. Nine hours go by.
Me: Ok, goodbye Sammy. See you tomorrow.
Him: Goodbye.
And that's it!! That's actually a talkative day for him. :lol: :lol:
We don't work on the same thing anymore, so we're sitting separately. But when I pass his desk in the building, there he is silent and working on his computer. :lol: I've probably spoken more words in a week than he has in a life time.;)

[Pensive]

Interesting ones, Virgil and Koa! Now this reminds me of somebody too. A girl in my year I have been studying with for about five years. She talks very little, really very little. Usually sits on a seat staring at books or just open air. Some even call her rude or some even don't hesitate to use terms like a 'psycho-case' meanly for her. One day I am not feeling very well and all others are out from the class except her I feel I like I can't resist breaking the silence, I just automatically get to ask her, despite the fact it sounds really stupid, "So, why don't you like to talk?"
She is like, "Just because...well just because."
I make another attempt, asking her about her hobbies, favourite singers and so on. Thankfully it turns out to be that she has some. Then she mentions some things she dislikes and then I ask her what more she dislikes and she is like, "People who talk too much and when I am made to talk."

Damn it, there I am proud of my attempt at making a fellow chat who hardly ever speaks that I have to bear that blow. Well on seeing my probably surprised expressions (probably hurt too) and the sudden quiet, she says, "You don't talk too much, and you have not actually forced me to talk." But really I couldn't believe that latter statement. I am quite sure she meant me by 'people who talk too much' though for once I hope my surety is just lame. :p

[Madhuri]

You reminded me Koa of a fellow at work who can literaly go the whole day without speaking. I find it amazing. He just sits at his computer and does whatever his job is and not a peep out of him. Once actually we had desks near each other, and the extent of our conversation might be this:
He walks in in the morning and nods his head while I'm sitting at my desk.
Me: Hi Sammy.
Him: Hello
He sits down. I'm working, he's working, I'm talking to the other people in the room, he's just silently working. Nine hours go by.
Me: Ok, goodbye Sammy. See you tomorrow.
Him: Goodbye.
And that's it!! That's actually a talkative day for him. :lol: :lol:
We don't work on the same thing anymore, so we're sitting separately. But when I pass his desk in the building, there he is silent and working on his computer. :lol: I've probably spoken more words in a week than he has in a life time.;)


I am like that sometimes :p :D No wonder those HR people came up to me and started their enquiry :lol:

[Virgil]

That's funny Pensy. Although the Sammy I work with doesn't seem to mind when you talk to him. It's just that he doesn't do it unless he has to. I guess some people are just wired differently.

[Madhuri]

That's funny Pensy. Although the Sammy I work with doesn't seem to mind when you talk to him. It's just that he doesn't do it unless he has to. I guess some people are just wired differently.

Yeah, that is exactly how I am. Well, its not that I dont want to talk, but I dont usually start a conversation, as I think that maybe I am disturbing them. That is why I keep to myself most of the time, and talk only when its absolutely necessary.

Maybe, Sammy also thinks like that....

[Virgil]

Yeah, that is exactly how I am. Well, its not that I dont want to talk, but I dont usually start a conversation, as I think that maybe I am disturbing them. That is why I keep to myself most of the time, and talk only when its absolutely necessary.

Maybe, Sammy also thinks like that....

Perhaps, but I don't think so; he doesn't speak much even when you talk to him. We've know him for at least 15 years, so it's not that he's new or young. That's just the way he is. Maddie, are you that quiet with your friends back home?

[Madhuri]

Perhaps, but I don't think so; he doesn't speak much even when you talk to him. We've know him for at least 15 years, so it's not that he's new or young. That's just the way he is. Maddie, are you that quiet with your friends back home?

No, I can talk a lot with my friends, especially those who are really close. Some people think thats still less; I cant say how much is enough. But, what I talk is pretty much a decent conversation, not too much, not too less. In the office also, those who have become my friends, I can approach them anytime. I know them well, and I am very comfortable, so whenever I approach them even if at some odd time I know they wont mind. When someone I am not familiar with starts a conversation, I also talk in the same spirit.

Ummm.... I think there is a difference then. My problem is starting a conversation, but once started, I can keep up, and slowly as the familiarity gets established I dont mind first talking to the person myself.

[kratsayra]

Koa - wow, that sounds exactly like my life! ;) Really, I could have written almost exactly the same thing. The only thing is, I'm not that talkative either, so in some cases I haven't tried much. I have three housemates - one who I've talked to on occasion, one who our interaction has been reduced exclusively to "hi"/"hi," and one who I've tried to talk to many many times. I know exactly how you feel! Sometimes I have normal conversations with that last person, and sometimes it is like what you are talking about - it must depend on his mood.

the other day
me: hi, how was your day?
him: fine . . . not productive enough
me: I know what you mean
- awkward pause as I wait for him to ask me about the concert I went to the previous night that he knows I went to and that we've discussed before - I'm about to start talking about something else entirely when finally finally he's able to say: "how was your concert?" :rolleyes:

[Scheherazade]

the other day
me: hi, how was your day?
him: fine . . . not productive enough
me: I know what you mean
- awkward pause as I wait for him to ask me about the concert I went to the previous night that he knows I went to and that we've discussed before - I'm about to start talking about something else entirely when finally finally he's able to say: "how was your concert?" :rolleyes:Of course, it depends on everyone's style and personality but in this above conversation, when "Him" says "Not productive enough.", I would have asked whether he was supposed to finish something or had a project due etc (probably followed by whether something happened to distract him and so on).

And if he didn't ask about the concert, if I was really in need for a conversation, I would have said, "Oh, and last night I went to that concert I was telling you about..."

I guess it is hard to make conversation especially with those with whom we are not very close; it is safe to assume that they are having as much trouble as we are initiating an exchange and, to repeat a cliche, what's the worst thing can happen if we ask the questions etc?

[Virgil]

Ummm.... I think there is a difference then. My problem is starting a conversation, but once started, I can keep up, and slowly as the familiarity gets established I dont mind first talking to the person myself.

Maddie, I think that will come with age. One becomes more comfortable in a social setting and less inhibited. Like Scher says above, it's a matter of asking a question or two and seeing where the conversation leads.

[papayahed]

One time a boss sent me to the shipping department to find out why the shipping guy was so upset. I definately didn't want to go but my boss made me. I new I couldn't ask right off the bat what the problem was so I started of with "Your Dad sent me back here (they were father and son) then I started talking about everything under the sun. It was quite painful for the first 10 minutes or so but then he either got tired of me yapping or he was interested in the conversation and he started yapping too.

[Pensive]

Maddie, I think that will come with age. One becomes more comfortable in a social setting and less inhibited.

For me it would be the opposite. I asked questions most openly when I was six or seven (judging by what Mother has told me). With age this thing called 'self-respect' develops in my opinion sometimes even making us question ourselves whether what we are asking is right/wrong and what impact would that have in the eyes of the person we are asking these questions too; would that person consider us stupid...and so on...well it's just my opinion. :p

[AimusSage]

You don't have to speak to have a good conversation. (well I guess you do, but that's just a technicality) :D

What makes a conversation work most of the time is what isn't said. It can't be said enough. NON VERBAL COMMUNICATION. Yeah, it can be difficult esp. with people you don't know well, but it's essential for a good conversation. What is said matters less than how it is said.

Or yeah, you can always put on your pokerface and yap on and on about that wonderful little red rose you found in a flower boutique that reminded you of your first lost love and would bring tears to your eyes, how sincerely you wanted to buy it but couldn't because you forgot your wallet. :goof:

Is this actually relevant? I kind of wandered off there. Oh well, *whistles a tune and wanders to the next thread.*

(I'll be back though)

[kratsayra]

Of course, it depends on everyone's style and personality but in this above conversation, when "Him" says "Not productive enough.", I would have asked whether he was supposed to finish something or had a project due etc (probably followed by whether something happened to distract him and so on).

And if he didn't ask about the concert, if I was really in need for a conversation, I would have said, "Oh, and last night I went to that concert I was telling you about..."

I guess it is hard to make conversation especially with those with whom we are not very close; it is safe to assume that they are having as much trouble as we are initiating an exchange and, to repeat a cliche, what's the worst thing can happen if we ask the questions etc?

Yes, I suppose it was my own ridiculousness . . . I'd decided that he owed it to me to ask about the concert. I'm not used to being the one moving the conversation along - I suppose it's good practice for all those other conversations I'm going to be in throughout my life. . .:p

[Virgil]

For me it would be the opposite. I asked questions most openly when I was six or seven (judging by what Mother has told me). With age this thing called 'self-respect' develops in my opinion sometimes even making us question ourselves whether what we are asking is right/wrong and what impact would that have in the eyes of the person we are asking these questions too; would that person consider us stupid...and so on...well it's just my opinion. :p

Hehehe, you're a very talkative young lady. ;)

[Pensive]

Hehehe, you're a very talkative young lady. ;)

Don't know whether to take it as a compliment but I would. :p

[Virgil]

Don't know whether to take it as a compliment but I would. :p
It's a compliment. :)

[Nightshade]

I actually quite enjoy massive awkward family gatherings Im not good at looking people in the face or maintaing conversations or even talking to stargers or for that matter people I really do know but what do have , which is supprisingly useful in my job and sadly lands me the most difficult and annoying customers ..is the ability to look fascinated by whatever anyone is telling me, and seeming to engane in a proper converstaion and even give a few opions on the subject without actually paying any attention to it at all.

Having said that , Im rather dreading my next trip to Egypt especially if I end up being there the same time as my uncles mother in law or worse yet the 3rd cousins decide to visti which the frequently do...because I be too fat, or Ill have lost weight and be too thin , or itll be so youve finishehd uni when are you getting married you know when so and so was your age shed already been proposed to. Or I know just the guy for you, or will you marry a forigener or a good egyptian guy. Or the invitable which is better the Uk or Egypt and always the why arent you eating ,eat more.
:rolleyes: realitives youve gotto love them.

[Madhuri]

Having said that , Im rather dreading my next trip to Egypt especially if I end up being there the same time as my uncles mother in law or worse yet the 3rd cousins decide to visti which the frequently do...because I be too fat, or Ill have lost weight and be too thin , or itll be so youve finishehd uni when are you getting married you know when so and so was your age shed already been proposed to. Or I know just the guy for you, or will you marry a forigener or a good egyptian guy. Or the invitable which is better the Uk or Egypt and always the why arent you eating ,eat more.
:rolleyes: realitives youve gotto love them.

This sounds like the typical questions that my maternal grandmother asks, mostly, and other relatives in general. She always thinks that I need to eat more. And, whenever I visit them they have this standard question.... When are you getting married? Should we ask your parents to start looking for a suitable boy? And then they will go on to say how marriage is such an important part, and I should soon take a decision....etc. etc..... :rolleyes:

I always tell them... soon, very soon that will happen (whereas inside I know, that it is not that soon) :lol:

I say what they want to hear. But I do what I feel like doing :p :D