Jews and Christ

[sonofaslan]

I was reading the thread about respecting others' beliefs, and I have a question regarding Jews and the messiah. I have the utmost respect for Jews, and when I see muddle-headed Christians speaking of Jews in a derogatory manner, I am usually quick to quote Genesis 12:3 to them.

But there is something about Judaism I have never understood. We know one of the reasons Jews so ardently reject Christianity is because it compromises the Jewish ideas regarding monotheism. But still, the messianic prophecies originate in the Jewish Scriptures.

If the Messiah wasn't meant to be God... God in the flesh... what was he supposed to be? Certainly not a mere man, for no mere man could accomplish what the Messianic prophecies promise will be done. Isaiah suggests that one of the primary roles of the Messiah was to reconcile God and man. How could this be performed without a divine nature?

Also, the Messiah's name in Hebrew, Emmanuel, means "God with us." How can God be with us if the Messiah isn't God?

I guess my question is, in Judaism, what exactly will the Messiah be? Will he be 100% man, with God-given abilities. Or will he be an angel? What is the Judeo Messiah?

Another, off-tangent question. Outside of the Trinity question, is there any other nuance in the Jewish Scriptures that Jews suggest disqualifies Jesus from being the prophesied Messiah in the Jewish Scriptures?

[Virgil]

Sonofaslan, I think Anastasia actually answered that question somewhere in that thread. I think, and I'm no scholar on this so I leave it for experts to correct me, that we Christians read the Old Testament as foreshadowings of the New Testament events, but Jews don't see the connections, in the sense of interpreting the Old Testament differently and that the nature of a Messiah is different than Christ.

[blazeofglory]

I was reading the thread about respecting others' beliefs, and I have a question regarding Jews and the messiah. I have the utmost respect for Jews, and when I see muddle-headed Christians speaking of Jews in a derogatory manner, I am usually quick to quote Genesis 12:3 to them.

But there is something about Judaism I have never understood. We know one of the reasons Jews so ardently reject Christianity is because it compromises the Jewish ideas regarding monotheism. But still, the messianic prophecies originate in the Jewish Scriptures.

If the Messiah wasn't meant to be God... God in the flesh... what was he supposed to be? Certainly not a mere man, for no mere man could accomplish what the Messianic prophecies promise will be done. Isaiah suggests that one of the primary roles of the Messiah was to reconcile God and man. How could this be performed without a divine nature?

Also, the Messiah's name in Hebrew, Emmanuel, means "God with us." How can God be with us if the Messiah isn't God?

I guess my question is, in Judaism, what exactly will the Messiah be? Will he be 100% man, with God-given abilities. Or will he be an angel? What is the Judeo Messiah?

Another, off-tangent question. Outside of the Trinity question, is there any other nuance in the Jewish Scriptures that Jews suggest disqualifies Jesus from being the prophesied Messiah in the Jewish Scriptures?

Friend, I am kind of not comfortable with the idea of Judaism, Chrstianity, Buddhism and of course Hinduism.

All are veneers and deep down, these do not remain.

We all are one unit, or whole and perfect without religions.

Do not confuse yourself, for theh Bible is not God's words. They are human words.

[El Viejo]

Hello,

Back when I was a Christian, when I had puzzlers like yours I tried asking Rabbis for answers.

I suggest you do the same. You may find what they have to say enriching.

If you can get them to respond. You may have to convince them that you are legitimately inquiring, and that you aren't on an evangelical mission.

EV

[aabbcc]

That question was answered in another thread ("Judaism and Messiah"), but a brief resume would be:

Messiah is supposed to be a man, not G-d, nothing other than G-d can be of divine nature and G-d is one and cannot be 'split' into X number of 'persons'; more than performing miracles around, Messiah is supposed to be a political leader, bring together all Jews in the country of Israel, organise a just society in the actual, physical sense (no spiritual "Third Kingdom" and stuff of the kind); Messiah is supposed to be that in national sense, not universal (judaism never had pretensions of being universal religion, missionaring and 'saving' everybody because there is no concept of 'salvation' as it exists in Christianity); judaism claims that judaism is the only right path for a Jew, and not necessarily for everybody else too (and Jesus, on the contrary, said there was no 'salvation' out of his faith - well, in judaism there is); the sole word 'Messiah' in Tanakh (=OT) is used in numerous places and occassions, whilst the word simply means 'annoited one', so not every time you see it has something to do with this Messiah (in fact, I believe it is mostly used for Shaul, but I'm not sure); the controversy over the supposed town of Nazaret which mostly likely didn't exist at that time; numerous practically incorrect translations from the OT (I mentioned the example that Messiah is not supposed to be born by a virgin, it was a mistake that has been repeating itself for centuries), etc. There are plethora of reasons, I don't even know them all, but I'll stop here.

To put it simple, Christians and Jews have very different idea of what Messiah is supposed to be. The majority of Jews usually does not deny the fact there was in some time in history certain self-proclaimed Jesus, but they don't see him any different than numerous other 'Messiahs'.
As Israel in whole, but Jerusalem specifically, is a magnet for crazy people of all kinds, there are currently dozens of self-proclaimed 'Messiahs' over there. :D Historically, there were even more. Jews simply consider Jesus to have been one of those, and not Messiah.

[dzebra]

Messiah is supposed to be a man, not G-d, nothing other than G-d can be of divine nature and G-d is one and cannot be 'split' into X number of 'persons'; more than performing miracles around, Messiah is supposed to be a political leader, bring together all Jews in the country of Israel, organise a just society in the actual, physical sense (no spiritual "Third Kingdom" and stuff of the kind); Messiah is supposed to be that in national sense, not universal (judaism never had pretensions of being universal religion, missionaring and 'saving' everybody because there is no concept of 'salvation' as it exists in Christianity).

Then why don't Jews follow Mohammad? Wasn't he all those things?

[Cezar_TheScribe]

Also, the Messiah's name in Hebrew, Emmanuel, means "God with us." How can God be with us if the Messiah isn't God?

The Messiah was and is Jesus Christ he already came once and they rejected him. They wanted someone who would destroy their enemy, which was Rome at the time.


I guess my question is, in Judaism, what exactly will the Messiah be? Will he be 100% man, with God-given abilities. Or will he be an angel? What is the Judeo Messiah?

He, already came the Son of God...Jesus.

[DapperDrake]

Form my limited understanding I think it boils down to most of the Jews expecting fireworks, much like what Christians expect with the second coming of Jesus, and a simple carpenters son was not what they had in mind.
Of course at the time not all Jews rejected Jesus (something any Christian or Jew will know well).

[Drkshadow03]

The Messiah was and is Jesus Christ he already came once and they rejected him. They wanted someone who would destroy their enemy, which was Rome at the time.

He, already came the Son of God...Jesus.

Way to be open-minded Cezar and respect the beliefs of others, particularly Jews! The question was what do Jews believe about the Messiah. Not what do Christians believe about the Messiah.

Your answer fails to address the question.

Anyway, if you want an answer you can go to this post on my blog: Why don't the Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah? (http://beyondassumptions.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/what-you-need-to-know-about-jews-part-i-why-dont-the-jews-accept-jesus-as-the-messiah/) It's a copy of a post I did here with certain points elaborated and extended, hence more complete than my original post. It might not have all that you're looking for, but it does have some answers.

[hellsapoppin]

The following is a very good essay on why Jews do not accept Jesus as Messiah:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm


Indeed, it raises many issues that professing Christians cannot answer.

[aabbcc]

The following is a very good essay on why Jews do not accept Jesus as Messiah:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm


Indeed, it raises many issues that professing Christians cannot answer.

Toda. :) I've always wanted to have have all those reasons nicely organised in one source I can link to next time somebody asks me about it. :D

[aabbcc]

Then why don't Jews follow Mohammad? Wasn't he all those things?
Nope.
Mohammad came, said we changed the original G-d's word, brought about the old Itzak/Ishmael issue, and pretty much fused the main Jewish dogma with the pre-islamic Arab traditions, thus making a new religion, with new rules, new holy book, etc.
Islam is also a religion seeking for followers, like Christianity, and unlike Jews, and with pretensions of being universal.
Muslims don't observe mitzvot and have sheria law instead of halacha.
The Temple isn't rebuilt, there isn't world peace, Islam again came with the concept of afterlife similar as in Christianity and drastically different from what Jews claim, etc.