English Literature degree

[KyleBennett]

Should an English literature degree be mainly concerned with works written primarily in the English language? For example, my degree covers no work from the great French, Russian, German authors. When asked why not, we merely get the reply that it's English literature.

I find this quite close minded; literature is literature the world over so why not cover books that have been translated?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks :thumbs_up

[Virgil]

My English lit degree was overwhelmingly concerned with works written in English. There were some courses, mostly medieval or earlier that had bearing on English lit. There was a comparative lit department that delved in works from across the world.

[mayneverhave]

I'm currently majoring in English,
but of course I've read, and plan on reading, plenty of works from other languages.

All of my English classes, of course, require readings only in English or from British/Irish/American authors. This is irritating. I would love to study Dostoevsky, Proust, etc. in a classroom setting but the only way to study Russian literature is in a Russian class, which is conducted in Russian - reading the works in their original - of which I have no skill and no ability.

[NickAdams]

Consider it a specialty. It's like cardiology. The medical field is too vast and has to be divided and so does literature. A lot of study takes place in context and language is as good of context as any. Is there a degree in world literature?

[KyleBennett]

Yeah true. However a knowledge of literature is incomplete without studying other texts in other languages? The course I am studying at the moment, when in 4th year one of the options of study is the works of Bob Dylan, and another is Digital poetry. I know this is argument is merely confined to my particular university, however I do believe many universities have these what I wold call low studies ( even though I accept that people would find Bob Dylan's work life changing ), shouldn't these potentially useless pathways be replaced with foreign literature?

A cardiologist needs to learn about everything in order to become a cardiologist, so a degree in literature shouldn't be different.

[knightss]

Consider it a specialty. It's like cardiology. The medical field is too vast and has to be divided and so does literature. A lot of study takes place in context and language is as good of context as any. Is there a degree in world literature?

very true.
I'm and English Lit minor.. i figured the major would require other aspects of literature aside from English. I'm a History Major and it requires that we take all type of history.. I've taken Asian History, Mexican History, probably around 7-8 American History, English History.. but we get a bit of everything to get a complete understanding of the workings of the world and how the countries/territories interact with one another.

[NickAdams]

A cardiologist needs to learn about everything in order to become a cardiologist, so a degree in literature shouldn't be different.

The little bit of everything would be literary techniques and what is needed to analyze literature. That's the foundation, but a cardiologist and a neurologist specialzed studies differ. World literature would be important to an English lit degree in how world literature influenced english authors.

I do think a classroom setting for world lit would be more beneficial for english speakers, than what is offered now. I can feel out an unknown english author with out a problem, but being assisted through foreign country would be greatly helpful. Like the April read for example: I would love to speak with someone that can assist me with Chinese culture, symbolism, etc.



very true.
I'm and English Lit minor.. i figured the major would require other aspects of literature aside from English. I'm a History Major and it requires that we take all type of history.. I've taken Asian History, Mexican History, probably around 7-8 American History, English History.. but we get a bit of everything to get a complete understanding of the workings of the world and how the countries/territories interact with one another.

Maybe it's semantics, but a History major would learn world history and a American History major would only learn amreican history. Then, a Literature major would learn all of literature and an English lit major would learn English lit. The adjective creates the box.

[KyleBennett]

The adjective creates the box.
Yes it does. It's probably just my own fault then for creating that box. Hm if only I could change it...

[NickAdams]

Yes it does. It's probably just my own fault then for creating that box. Hm if only I could change it...

If it's all the university has to offer, then the blame is not on you. Create a new major? Good idea!:idea:

[Virgil]

Yeah true. However a knowledge of literature is incomplete without studying other texts in other languages? The course I am studying at the moment, when in 4th year one of the options of study is the works of Bob Dylan, and another is Digital poetry. I know this is argument is merely confined to my particular university, however I do believe many universities have these what I wold call low studies ( even though I accept that people would find Bob Dylan's work life changing ), shouldn't these potentially useless pathways be replaced with foreign literature?

A cardiologist needs to learn about everything in order to become a cardiologist, so a degree in literature shouldn't be different.

Bob Dylan?? What a waste of a class. I like Bob Dylan and all, but reading Bob Dylan is not reading important literature, or at least not great literature. Unless this is a requirement I would take something else.

I agree with some of the other comments. English lit is vast. If you don't concentrate on English lit, then you will be missing out on something. As it is, with concentrating on English lit I still missed out on most of the 18th century works. I read non-English lit in my spare time and summers on my own.

[mortalterror]

I think that English literature itself is vast and worth a lifetime of study, and I do agree that it is important to specialize. One needs to have a focus, and structure in order to do just about anything. Literature is no different. That said, a broad and varied experience is just as important as a deep understanding of particulars. English literature does not exist in a vacuum.

I went into the English major thinking I'd learn all sorts of foreign literature too. I expected I'd get to Dante, Cervantes, and Homer eventually, but four years just blew by. When I took stock of all that I had learned, I realized that worse than just focusing on English literature, most of my studies had consisted of American literature of the early twentieth and late nineteenth centuries. There were a lot of things I didn't pick up in school. I never learned proper grammar, and I still have a lot of difficulty writing essays. You need to take control of your own education and decide what's really important for you to learn. Otherwise you'll just drift along with all the other people through the revolving doors of a diploma mill.

[HotKarl]

Generally, the classes that constitute an English degree vary from university to university. If your major is "English Literature," the way I understand it, you're mostly going to deal with works from Great Britain. In fact, I know of a few universities that have "Shakespearean" majors--the Bard and nothing else. A basic "English" degree--distinct from "English Literature"--major seems much more flexible. It's what I majored in, and I had a broad choice of world literatures to select from that counted toward my degree. I happened to concentrate on American literature, but some of the classes offered included Classic, Latin American, Native American, Russian, and European Literature in various movements. On top of the lit classes, I was also required to take various writing and grammar classes; "Rhetoric and Grammar" was probably the most valuable college class I took. If I were you, I would check with your guidance counselor to see if your college/university offers the degree you're looking for. I'm willing to wager they do.

[KyleBennett]

I think that English literature itself is vast and worth a lifetime of study, and I do agree that it is important to specialize.

You need to take control of your own education and decide what's really important for you to learn. Otherwise you'll just drift along with all the other people through the revolving doors of a diploma mill.

I agree that English literature is vast, you can spend several lifetimes worth of study- actually just on John Donne you could devote your life to.

And I also agree that one should take hold of your own studies and gain more knowledge of literature on your own accord instead of being sucked into the "diploma mill".

As Virgil pointed out yeah summers are a good time to catch up on our foreign companions; I just believe that foreign literature is just as good to study as any other. Tolstoy, Mann, Kafka, Balzac, Dostoyevsky (to name but a few) should be incorporated into the degree system in the UK.


:D

Thanks for the replies btw.

[KyleBennett]

Oh and yeah there is a Dylan module. But I am steering way clear of it. The pathway i'll be choosing is most likely going to focus on the Post-colonial texts. With some renaissance and romantics thrown in. :)

However there are some really dud books being studied... such as Stephen King and Thomas Harris.. in the 4th year.. why?

[mayneverhave]

Hah, Stephen King studies.

You think that's bad?

My school has a "Philosophy and Harry Potter" class.

[Scheherazade]

While at university, we had to study American Literature as well as English Literature (though far more limited) and take at least one course covering World Literature.

Don't know how it is now, though.

[Kafka's Crow]

University of Westminster in London started a course in 'kite-flying' some years ago (beat that!!!) and it went on until the controversial Head who initiated such trivialities was forced to resign. I studied 'English Literature' for many (too many!) years but got my own little reading things going on on the side. I remember when the teacher mentioned The Brothers Karamazov while discussing The Death of a Salesman in American Lit class, I just ran out and bought a copy of Dostoevsky's classic (obviously in translation), Sartre and Camus were mentioned a lot while studying Hemingway, I took it upon myself to read them. When Marcus J Smith came down from Loyola, he condemned our whole syllabus of American Lit as outdated and brought us Walker Percy and John Kennedy Toole, even went on to introduce Barthes. This led to Soren Kierkegaard, structuralism, Helen Keller, de Saussure and Claude Levi Strauss etc. The 'doors of perception' kept on opening to new realities every day. Studying Eliot, Joyce and Pound led to classical Greek, Latin and the French Troubadours and Villon etc, Shelley's Prometheus Unbound led to Aeschylus' classic play. Keats opened the way to Greek mythology, Wordsworth led to Rousseau via Irving Babbitt, Beckett to Deconstruction and Derrida. Maybe that is why I never liked English novel because it never led to much else. Just follow the course of influences and intertextual crossroads that your syllabi lead you to. If something is mentioned or alluded to, it must be known. Let your curiosity lead you on. Isn't it amazing: Eliot to Ovid and back to Kafka! It might not guarantee good grades (they love 'focussed' students in universities) but you will develop a genuine love for literature which is well worth everything else. Once you complete your degree, come down to London for a good Masters program. The MA in Modernism and Postmodernism run by University of London is totally void of regards for the geographical borders (at least it used to be like that back then). I remember there was a course called 'Modernism and the City' when I studied there and you needed French to get a place as it had a lot to do with the fin de siecle French modernism. It was a great course and we studied things from England, Ireland, France, the US, Germany and Russian Formalist theory:

http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhle/012/MA_Modernity/Webpage.htm#_Course_Structure

The course is changed a good deal but still it is not totally uninteresting (I would say it is watered-down!). Imagine Gerome Mcgann teaching Les Chants de Maldoror. The man is one of the leading authorities on Romanticism and the 19th century. Imagine Andrew Gibson teaching Beckett and Joyce!

I think the undue stress on 'focus' kills real learning. Universities sacrifice this love for learning by rewarding students with limited enthusiasm for their subject but better studying technique. I had the good fortune of studying in different countries and although the infectious disease of 'focussed' studies has taken over everywhere, still there are some societies and countries where real love for learning and enthusiasm is not only appreciated but encouraged by old men with flowing white beards who literally hold your hand put you on the road to learning, mentor you and teach you to love what really matters, not just how to obtain a degree.

. . . what we have loved,
Others will love, and we will teach them how

William Wordsworth, The Prelude


'

[teejay17]

Should an English literature degree be mainly concerned with works written primarily in the English language? For example, my degree covers no work from the great French, Russian, German authors. When asked why not, we merely get the reply that it's English literature.

I find this quite close minded; literature is literature the world over so why not cover books that have been translated?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks :thumbs_up

If the foreign literature is translated into English, then, in my opinion, it constitutes English Literature.

[KyleBennett]

U I remember when the teacher mentioned The Brothers Karamazov while discussing The Death of a Salesman in American Lit class, I just ran out and bought a copy of Dostoevsky's classic (obviously in translation), Sartre and Camus were mentioned a lot while studying Hemingway, I took it upon myself to read them.

Actually yeah, the tutor for the literature course often mentioned Rousseau, Mann, Kafka, Flaubert.. and many more during romanticism tutorials. He is a well read guy and I guess if you are lucky enough to have a tutor who points you in the right direction, specifically towards good foreign literature, then that's beneficial to the student. (I have recently bought Mann's Buddenbrook just because the 2nd hand bookshop didn't have Magic Mountain, but I look forward to delving into Mann's literature--- just because the tutor said it was an amazing, and essential read.)

So a tutor should point to texts, and the university should stick to it's guns and only embed English/American/Colonialist texts, untranslated texts, into their syllabus.

Life is too short and money too short to study post-grad. I guess that's the problem with the degree system- you get a degree, you get a job. Or if you have money or are lucky enough to get a bursary, you get a degree, further that degree, then get a job...

Which one would be most beneficial to life? Is knowledge all to do with your wealth? If I studied all my life, I would have no money. Unless I worked and studied.

Kafka's Crow, thanks for your insight!

[lakeside_girl]

i started as an secondary ed./english emphasis in school. however, when i had to take a few courses like history of the english language (one of my favorites ever!) modern grammar, and brition lit., i actually had an "awakening", and changed to english lit. and no, they do not concern all english speaking countries; it would simply be overwhelming i think. in fact, my later schooling was primarily on one faculty of the english romantics; the lake poets....and eventually divided 3 times at that to simply one lake boy. this was fascinating and i loved it, but i was honestly ignorant of nearly everything else that was great. it wasn't until later that i began consuming the russians by the volumes, the transcendentals, etc....so, be sure that you are interested enough in great britain alone before you get your degree...i was and still am.

[teejay17]

I would have to disagree. I would think it would be French literature, Russian literature, Italian literature, etc. in translation.

Thomas Hardy in Russian isn't Russian literature or even American literature in Hardy's native English.

But of course I respect your opinion. All opinions are valid ones.
You do have a point. That's the problem with naming a discipline after a language.
I have a B.A. in English, and along with reading the literature of the world, I specialised in Rhetoric and Media Studies. In reality, that doesn't have much to do with the language that is spoken in Great Britain.

[B-Mental]

I think you describe an interest in General Literature. English Lit is all Shakespeare and Chaucer, while World Literature is very much more enlightening, it is such a broad topic.

[kratsayra]

Most of the English department courses that I took as an undergraduate had at least one or two works in translation on their syllabi as they were relevant to the course as a whole. Then again, most of those courses were cross-listed with Comparative Literature. ;)

I might point out that in the United States (I can't speak for elsewhere) while Comparative Literature has traditionally been the place to study a broad range of texts in different languages, English departments are increasingly working in other languages. Graduate students and professors in English departments often end up working with texts in other languages (in the original) in addition to working with texts originally in English. It is just the way things are going.

Not to say I'm necessarily happy with that situation - I'm in comparative literature so it makes my place even more uncertain than it is already. As my friend (also in comparative literature) said recently, "give us some space or give us a job!" ;) no offense to anyone in English departments - this is just about the realities of jobs and such - I'm not making a larger argument, I just want a job when I'm done. :p

[KyleBennett]

Yeah true, I guess an English Literature degree taking on foreign literature would be taking someone elses degree focus away from them, English focus on English and leave the comparatives to their own work.

I guess I'm just bitter because in my University they only offer one Literature course, that one being English. And at that not even a good one. They've spent all their money on accomodation for the students, forgetting, and cutting the funds to, the actual studies themselves.

I guess one needs focus in literature other wise it'll be like floating in the ocean without a boat.