The Old Man and the Sea

[ntropyincarnate]

I'm reading this in English and I have to answer this question.

Describe the religious symbolism used by Hemingway. In what way is Santiago a Christ figure?

I must be missing something, because I really don't see any religious symbolism. There's definitely references to religion, but not really symbolism. And I have no idea how Santiago is a Christ figure. Can anyone help me out? It would be much appreciated.

[novelsryou]

When he is dragging his mast from the shore? - Jesus carrying the cross. When he is lying in bed with his arm out-stretched? - Jesus on the cross.

[ntropyincarnate]

That helps some, thanks.

[ntropyincarnate]

Is there anything else? The question makes it look like it's throughout the book, not just at the end...and I don't really see how dragging a mast or laying with his arm out makes him a Christ figure, I mean when I think of Christ figure I think more in terms of acting like Christ...right? I really need help!

[mortalterror]

The fish can represent Christ because of the loaves and the fishes. The old man can represent Christ because of Jesus' instructions to his disciples to become fishers of men. However, I think that is reading into the text things which aren't really there. Hemingway didn't really do symbolism, and even in the stories where Christ is actually mentioned the material is tackled from a realist point of view. A number of his characters suffer, but their suffering is not redemptive, and the pain is more about stoic acceptance of the world, and not being defeated by obstacles.

[ntropyincarnate]

Yeah, that's how I feel about it. Unfortunately I have to answer this stupid question...:(

[Ryduce]

-The old man's hands are often mentioned as being scarred,a possible reference to the scars Jesus suffered from being nailed to the cross.

-The old man and the boy have an almost disciple like relationship.

-Don't forget how importantly symbolic fish are to the Christian tradition.We've all seen the bumper stickers.The Apostles were often referred to as "fishers of men". While Santiago fishes for more commercial purposes,the symbolism here is somewhat implicit.Christ=Fisher of men,thus Santiago being a fisherman,is in itself a grand reference to Christ.

[mayneverhave]

How bout you get creative and write about how the old man does not entirely act as a Christ figure.

Teachers don't seem to mind innovation as long as you demonstrate hard work behind it.

[APEist]

Hemingway didn't really do symbolism

I havn't read any of his novels, but having read The Old Man and the Sea and several short stories, I must say that Hemingway uses a lot of symbolism. Everything from objects, dialogue, to the setting itself often hold symbollic meaning.

[mortalterror]

I havn't read any of his novels, but having read The Old Man and the Sea and several short stories, I must say that Hemingway uses a lot of symbolism. Everything from objects, dialogue, to the setting itself often hold symbollic meaning.

I've read everything he published in his lifetime, from his novels, to his journalism, and I'm telling you he doesn't use symbolism. A fish is a fish, and an old man is an old man. Hemingway loved fishing, and while he was living in Cuba, he heard about a man this happened to. He wrote a piece for Esquire magazine about the man in 1936 and this would become the basis for The Old Man and the Sea. The article appears in the April issue and is titled On the Blue Water: A Gulf Stream Letter. It refers to an old man who got dragged out to sea by a large fish, which the sharks destroyed before he could get it back to land.

[APEist]

I've read everything he published in his lifetime, from his novels, to his journalism, and I'm telling you he doesn't use symbolism.

Oh man, you've got me in stitches from laughing.

As much as 'Hills' and 'Old Man' have been analyzed, you're trying to tell me that Hemingway doesn't use symbolism? Are you joking?

I could reference any analysis and prove you wrong. Hell, if I wanted to I could go into the lions from 'Old Man' or the setting of 'Hills' and trounce your claim.

But it's not worth the time.

Every 9th grader has studied the symbolism in Hemingway's most popular works.

[NickAdams]

Oh man, you've got me in stitches from laughing.

As much as 'Hills' and 'Old Man' have been analyzed, you're trying to tell me that Hemingway doesn't use symbolism? Are you joking?

I could reference any analysis and prove you wrong. Hell, if I wanted to I could go into the lions from 'Old Man' or the setting of 'Hills' and trounce your claim.

But it's not worth the time.

Every 9th grader has studied the symbolism in Hemingway's most popular works.

Hemingway never used symbolism intentionally. Just because critics found connections in a work, doesn't mean the author meant for them to connect.

[APEist]

If all that symbolism was mere accident, I'll go get a dull spoon and remove my manhood.

[PeterL]

If all that symbolism was mere accident, I'll go get a dull spoon and remove my manhood.

I wouldn't go that far, but there is no doubt that you are correct about Heminway's use of symbolism. There was a lot of it, and it wasn't very subtle. I can't remember which novel it was, but in the ending the main character goes outside and it starts to rain. Someone will know that detail and tell how it relates to what had just happened.

[mayneverhave]

How about the rather obvious symbolism in all the bull fighting scenes in The Sun Also Rises?

[mortalterror]

I don't believe that what we are discussing is actually symbolism. The examples so far have all consisted of archetypes, ritual, and atmosphere. When it rains, it isn't a symbol. It's wet. A broken glass, a woman holding doves, a flaming heart: those are all symbols.

If we are discussing The Sun Also Rises, there is a scene where bulls gore each other which foreshadows the fight in the cafe. But I don't think that Hemingway meant the bulls to stand for Cohn or anybody else. It's rather to highlight the similarity between bulls and men in general, and to show that the facts of life repeat themselves on a number of different levels. Although, if we were looking for symbols, I think a much better case could be made for that scene than what others have already mentioned in Old Man.

I'd also like to add that The Sun Also Rises was also based on real events experienced by Hemingway, so perhaps he had real people and real bulls in mind when he wrote it.

Edit: I'd like to thank everybody who's contributed so far. You really got me thinking about a subject I'd mostly taken for granted the last eight years. I started thinking, "Well of course everything in literature stands for something else. I mean words are symbols, aren't they? But aren't we defining symbolism too broadly here?" Hemingway's iceberg theory is a technique were a part will stand for a whole, but we don't call that symbolism. The characters may be two dimensional. They may be idealized without being generalized. A scientist doesn't tend to represent all scientists. However, we do have a lot of great white hunters. The problem here is that I find all of Hemingway's hunters and fisherman to be unique in certain ways. And frequently they are based on actual people he knew. If I had to name one character which could be symbolic, I'd probably have to name the Old Woman in Death in the Afternoon. She doesn't represent anything abstract like truth or beauty, but she might pass for Hemingway's symbol of the ideal bullfight fan. I'm going to have to give this more thought.

A simple, "No, there's no symbolism in Hemingway, seems a little pat; especially when I recall a short story he wrote, published after his death, where Jesus is a lion. Would that qualify as symbolism or is that allegory and anthropomorphism?

[PeterL]

I don't believe that what we are discussing is actually symbolism. The examples so far have all consisted of archetypes, ritual, and atmosphere. When it rains, it isn't a symbol. It's wet. A broken glass, a woman holding doves, a flaming heart: those are all symbols.

Any figure of speech in which one thing stands for or represents something else is symbolism. The rain in that case stood for, or symbolized, tears.



If we are discussing The Sun Also Rises, there is a scene where bulls gore each other which foreshadows the fight in the cafe. But I don't think that Hemingway meant the bulls to stand for Cohn or anybody else. It's rather to highlight the similarity between bulls and men in general, and to show that the facts of life repeat themselves on a number of different levels. Although, if we were looking for symbols, I think a much better case could be made for that scene than what others have already mentioned in Old Man.

Then the bulls symbolized the humans who engaged in violence. That is symbolism.



I'd also like to add that The Sun Also Rises was also based on real events experienced by Hemingway, so perhaps he had real people and real bulls in mind when he wrote it.

Symbolic events happen in the real world. Whether he saw a bullfight and a bar fight in the same day is irrelevant.



Edit: I'd like to thank everybody who's contributed so far. You really got me thinking about a subject I'd mostly taken for granted the last eight years. I started thinking, "Well of course everything in literature stands for something else. I mean words are symbols, aren't they? But aren't we defining symbolism too broadly here?" Hemingway's iceberg theory is a technique were a part will stand for a whole, but we don't call that symbolism. The characters may be two dimensional. They may be idealized without being generalized. A scientist doesn't tend to represent all scientists. However, we do have a lot of great white hunters. The problem here is that I find all of Hemingway's hunters and fisherman to be unique in certain ways. And frequently they are based on actual people he knew. If I had to name one character which could be symbolic, I'd probably have to name the Old Woman in Death in the Afternoon. She doesn't represent anything abstract like truth or beauty, but she might pass for Hemingway's symbol of the ideal bullfight fan. I'm going to have to give this more thought.

A simple, "No, there's no symbolism in Hemingway, seems a little pat; especially when I recall a short story he wrote, published after his death, where Jesus is a lion. Would that qualify as symbolism or is that allegory and anthropomorphism?

Allegory is a use of symbolism. In many works of fiction, flat characters are either archetypes or symbols of the characteristic that they display.

[NickAdams]

This is from the FAQ section of the timlesshemingway website. I was looking for the quote from Hemingway where he said he did not use symbolism intentionally and any found says more about the reader than himself. I didn't find that, but maybe this will help with your original question.
Question:
What story can I compare to Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea?

Answer:
The Old Man and the Sea is a wonderful work to analyze, one rich with irony and symbolism (though Hemingway didn't seem to think so). You may want to focus on the seemingly strong religious implications, or the dynamics of the relationship between Manolin and the old man, or how the boy is initiated into manhood (as are many of Hemingway's male characters), or the familiar Hemingwayesque theme of what one loves must eventually be destroyed.

In comparing this novel to another Hemingway work, "My Old Man" is a good choice if you are inclined to discuss the similarities/differences between the old man gambler and the old man fisherman or the similarities/differences between the young narrator of "My Old Man" and Manolin, especially in regards to their feelings towards their elders. If you choose to focus on boy's initiation into manhood, almost any of the Nick Adams stories could be used ("Indian Camp" "The End of Something").

One other interesting point concerns the whole concept of the "code hero" in relation to Santiago. Scholar Philip Young has noted that Santiago is the first of Hemingway's "code heroes" to have become old. Why is this? And why does this particular depiction of the hero appear so much later on in Hemingway's writing career (The Old Man and the Sea being published in 1952)?

[NickAdams]

The boy can be seen as the believers and the adults, the ones that mock his humble lifestyle, as the non-believers who persecute him. The boy’s mother is someone who was sympathetic, but has lost her faith.

[mortalterror]

For people who enjoy reading symbolism into things which the authors never intended, you might get a kick out of this Freudian analysis of The Cat In the Hat. http://www.seuss.org/seuss/freud.seuss.html

My favorite part:
At this point, the fish, an obvious Christ figure who represents the prevailing Christian morality, attempts to warn the children, and thus, in effect, warns all of humanity of the dangers associated with the unleashing of the primal urges. In response to this, the cat proceeds to balance the aquatic naysayer on the end of his umbrella, essentially saying, "Down with morality; down with God!"

[APEist]

mortalterror: "For people who enjoy reading symbolism into things which the authors never intended, you might get a kick out of this Freudian analysis of The Cat In the Hat."

I don't enjoy reading symbolism into things which author's never intended.

I still think Hemingway used symbolism quite liberally. If all his symbolism was accidental, then he loses most of my respect (for what it's worth, heh)

I think Hemingway saying that he "never used symbolism", is a bit like how Bob Dylan would respond to interviews and questions.

The inane questions people would ask Dylan bothered him so much that he would either a) not respond, b) respond with an off-the-wall answer, c) respond with what he knows is the opposite of what the interviewer expects.

Interviewer: "Is 'Blowin in the Wind' an anti-war statement, Mr. Dylan?"

Dylan: "No, not even close."

If Hemingway's literature is void of symbolism, then 'Hills Like White Elephants' is just an extremely BORING conversation.

In actuality, the story isn't boring at all, because Hemingway is saying so much, even with vague dialogue and sparse setting description.

Without symbolism, there is no insight attached to 'Hills'; there is no meat on the bones.

So I don't buy it. I don't care if it came from his own mouth. I believe it was a tongue-in-cheek statement, a Dylanesque response (even if Dylan was after).

Those are my thoughts. If people would like for me to show what I think Hemingway is saying in 'Hills', I will post my analyzation. I feel that Hemingway intended for me to percieve the story the way I have, or at least similarly. I don't feel like taking the time to post my thoughts on 'Hills', honestly (since it's been done 5 billion times), but I'll do it if it drives my point home.

[B-Mental]

Symbols, are loosely interpreted, and even the author may not know what was intended. I love the honesty of the book. The courage of the man, and the compassion of the boy. Those are Literal, and figurative. That is what Hemingway admired. He was a little macho. You know. b

[NickAdams]

[I]If Hemingway's literature is void of symbolism, then 'Hills Like White Elephants' is just an extremely BORING conversation.


I disagree. The tension of the abortion still remains.

When I read a work, character and language is what I'm interested in. Symbolism, theme and even plot are add-ons; It's what I explore during the second read. Move foward first, reflect second.

[hellsapoppin]

"The old man's hands are often mentioned as being scarred,a possible reference to the scars Jesus suffered from being nailed to the cross."


This is called stigmata and was also evident in the line, "Ay ... feeling the nail go through his hand and into the wood." There is much Messianic symbolism throughout the book.

[NickAdams]

Let's us not forget the influence of Pound; who was an imagist, the motto of which is: "the natural object is always the adequate symbol."