This World - Is It A Good Place To Be In?

[Pensive]

Hi all! I wonder if such a thread has been started before too.....What do you think about our present-day world? Is it a good place to be in or a bad one? Are you able to generalise this thing? What is your first thought when you think about it? What are your thoughts about it when you ponder about it deeply? Any different? Are you happy about the way things go here or do you think that celebration of the birth of a baby is not a really wise thing seeing how terrible this world can be for her/him?

[kilted exile]

Yep, it's a wonderful time to be alive. Of course there are things that need changed and some people that need a swift kick in the pants - but that is the same with any time period.

[mercy_mankind]

Hi all! I wonder if such a thread has been started before too.....What do you think about our present-day world? Is it a good place to be in or a bad one? Are you able to generalise this thing? What is your first thought when you think about it? What are your thoughts about it when you ponder about it deeply? Any different? Are you happy about the way things go here or do you think that celebration of the birth of a baby is not a really wise thing seeing how terrible this world can be for her/him?

Is there anything annoy you Pensive?
We are living in a beautiful world , full of wonderful events everywhere. :(

[Dori]

Sure. After all, we live in the best of all possible worlds, don't we? :p

[Shalot]

Hi all! I wonder if such a thread has been started before too.....What do you think about our present-day world? Is it a good place to be in or a bad one? Are you able to generalise this thing? What is your first thought when you think about it? What are your thoughts about it when you ponder about it deeply? Any different? Are you happy about the way things go here or do you think that celebration of the birth of a baby is not a really wise thing seeing how terrible this world can be for her/him?

I guess it all depends on what day it is. There have been times in my life when I have wondered if i wasn't actually dead already and in some kind of slow hell. And when I listen to the news sometimes, I feel like no one should have kids because of the way the world is going.

[Dori]

I guess it all depends on what day it is. There have been times in my life when I have wondered if i wasn't actually dead already and in some kind of slow hell. And when I listen to the news sometimes, I feel like no one should have kids because of the way the world is going.

The news has persuaded you to (sometimes) think that no one should have kids? It's all just gossip. Guess what I learned last time I watched the news? "One in two dogs in America might be obese according to a new study..." :rolleyes:

In the words of H.D. Thoreau: "And I am sure that I never read any
memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or
murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel
wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the
Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers
in the winter -- we never need read of another. One is enough. If
you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad
instances and applications? To a philosopher all news, as it is
called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over
their tea." (Walden, "Chapter 2: Where I Lived, and What I Lived For")

Besides, basing your judgements on all the the bad things in the world is just a bit biased, don't you think?

[Shalot]

The news has persuaded you to (sometimes) think that no one should have kids? It's all just gossip. Guess what I learned last time I watched the news? "One in two dogs in America might be obese according to a new study..." :rolleyes:

In the words of H.D. Thoreau: "And I am sure that I never read any
memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or
murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel
wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the
Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers
in the winter -- we never need read of another. One is enough. If
you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad
instances and applications? To a philosopher all news, as it is
called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over
their tea." (Walden, "Chapter 2: Where I Lived, and What I Lived For")

Besides, basing your judgements on all the the bad things in the world is just a bit biased, don't you think?


Maybe. I decided a long time ago that I wouldn't bring any kids into the world. When I read about certain current events in the news, I may be more inclined to think that the population should die off. Someone else, who has not had the experiences I have had, may read the news and have a different reaction. We all view the world through different lenses. Didn't someone say, The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.

[islandclimber]

Shalot I'm inclined to agree.. I think the world is far too overpopulated for me to add to this problem... The planet needs a break from us humans... The wilderness is so beautiful, we are destroying it... as well I don't read the news anymore, I think it is an exercise in futility... it doesn't change anything for me so why bother.. I also believe we live in the world we live in so why not make the best of it.. it is entirely irrelevant whether it is a good time to be here or not, for we are here anyways, so do your best to make your stay an enjoyable one... I don't want to regret my life no matter when I die.. tomorrow or 60 years from now...

[Lily Adams]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyzEwojYen0

To paraphrase someone: I'm not cynical, I just watch the news.

[metal134]

Society always has and always will think that the world is in shambles. I have read enough philosophy and enough literature to know that "the world is such a terrible place right now" has been the societal mindset for thousands of years now. People were just as worried about how awful things were a hundred years ago, and they will be just as worried about things 100 years from now. That's not to to say that the world is without problems that definitley need to be addressed, but the condition is not a new one.

[rachel_bookworm]

I think the thing that upsets me the most is then environmental situation. It's a shame that people can't see the effect humans are having on the planet. I try my best to be as green as I can, but I think there are enough people out there that don't care which makes me think why is my contribution going to make a difference?? Plus it is the big companies which contribute most to pollution. George Bush refuses to let up on the Co2 emmisions from these companies and yet he probably still urges people to change their lifestyles to help!!

I just think the world is hypocritical, it annoys me!

[Lote-Tree]

It's never been a good place to live for humans.

For Humans as Winston Churchill wrote - History of Humans is History of war!

But we hope that we get better.

[TheFifthElement]

Hi all! I wonder if such a thread has been started before too.....What do you think about our present-day world? Is it a good place to be in or a bad one? Are you able to generalise this thing? What is your first thought when you think about it? What are your thoughts about it when you ponder about it deeply? Any different? Are you happy about the way things go here or do you think that celebration of the birth of a baby is not a really wise thing seeing how terrible this world can be for her/him?

Interesting question Pensive.

I'm not sure that it's possible to assess the world in such black and white terms as 'good' and 'bad'. There will be some bits which are good, some bits which are bad, and even that depends on your perspective and circumstances. Someone scrabbling for basics such as food and water in the third world might consider the world 'bad' particularly considering the excesses of the West, but then some privileged teenager in the Western world with everything at their disposal might also consider it equally 'bad' because they have nothing to aim for, and suffer from interminable boredom.

Sometimes I think that there's little point even asking, after all where else can you live? It's this world or nothing really. (I still ask though, what else is there to do with your time?)

[amalia1985]

If people try hard, they can turn the world into a perfect place.

[Virgil]

Interesting Pensy. Perhaps something that needs asking. A number of people have expressed my thoughts already, so let me highlight them.


Sometimes I think that there's little point even asking, after all where else can you live? It's this world or nothing really.
That was my first thought. Where else is there?


Society always has and always will think that the world is in shambles. I have read enough philosophy and enough literature to know that "the world is such a terrible place right now" has been the societal mindset for thousands of years now. People were just as worried about how awful things were a hundred years ago, and they will be just as worried about things 100 years from now. That's not to to say that the world is without problems that definitley need to be addressed, but the condition is not a new one.
Absolutely. But today's media, with non stop news, details out out every negative thing possible on an hourly basis. Our minds have been shaped and oriented by bad news. It's as if war and famine and earth quakes and murder and robbery and corruption have never occurred before. Of course they have. If the news would add all the good that gets done, the higher standards of living across the world, less people than ever going hungry, more people being educated, more communication and discussion (such as here), more travel, shorter work weeks, less strenuous jobs, more cultural exchanges, and so on and so on.


Yep, it's a wonderful time to be alive. Of course there are things that need changed and some people that need a swift kick in the pants - but that is the same with any time period.

My feelings exactly. As a mental exercise, just take the daily life existance of any other period in history and tell me you want to exchange from your current life. Tell me you would prefer to do laundry without a washer machine or to cut wood without a power saw. I've said this in a number of places, even something as simple as toilet paper has made the world everlastingly more pleasant.

[metal134]

I think the thing that upsets me the most is then environmental situation. It's a shame that people can't see the effect humans are having on the planet. I try my best to be as green as I can, but I think there are enough people out there that don't care which makes me think why is my contribution going to make a difference?? Plus it is the big companies which contribute most to pollution. George Bush refuses to let up on the Co2 emmisions from these companies and yet he probably still urges people to change their lifestyles to help!!

I just think the world is hypocritical, it annoys me!
Now that I can agree with. As I said about the issue as it relates to society itself, it is nothing new and will never change. But the environmental concerns are something that we have never had to deal with on such a scale and NEED to be addressed.

[Lily Adams]

Are you happy about the way things go here or do you think that celebration of the birth of a baby is not a really wise thing seeing how terrible this world can be for her/him?

Population is the biggest issue. It is the fundamental cause to everything. If there were less people on this Earth, we could all live comfortably and wouldn't have to worry about global warming, or wars or poverty (more children means more mouths to feed) and all that nearly as much as we do now. And that's why I'm assured, most likely, 99.9% sure that I am NOT having children. Everyone always responds "Oh, you silly. Don't you want to carry on your family line? People who say that are the ones who always have the children and the people who say they want children never do have children." If that was true we wouldn't have the exploding population that we have now, seeing as how most people want children because of the Common Genetic Imperative, or at least it seems like that to me. I honestly could care less about bringing children into this world full of torture and pain and sadness just to see my "family line" get carried on. It doesn't matter anyways-we're all humans. It's not like I'm royalty or something and need an heir. "Saying there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers." Right. Not in this day and age. I wish things were that easy, but people need to eat food and flowers don't make devasting wars that could blow the whole planet up. We are not flowers and flowers are not humans. Big difference. I want and have a different genetic imperative.


I just think the world is hypocritical, it annoys me!

The world is a complete paradox.

"When nothing's funny it gets easy to laugh at the drop of a hat or a bomb."

[TheFifthElement]

Population is the biggest issue. It is the fundamental cause to everything. If there were less people on this Earth, we could all live comfortably and wouldn't have to worry about global warming, or wars or poverty (more children means more mouths to feed) and all that nearly as much as we do now. And that's why I'm assured, most likely, 99.9% sure that I am NOT having children.

You know it's interesting that you raise this Lily, it makes me kind of sad how there's this growing feeling that bringing children into the world is a bad thing, almost as though people are 'sparing' their (let's face it, non-existent) children from the world. If only it were as simple as this:


If there were less people on this Earth, we could all live comfortably and wouldn't have to worry about global warming, or wars or poverty (more children means more mouths to feed)

but it's not that simple is it? In Italy they are trying to encourage people to have children as their population is shrinking, in China they control the number of offspring people can have. It's interesting that it's largely the wealthly western world which is concerned with reducing the population, but taking your premise to the ultimate conclusion this will only mean that there are less people in USA, but the amount of wealth and resources available in USA will remain the same - it's not going to share it with the rest of the world. Ultimately that means that the average American grows richer, or perhaps that the US rich/poor gap grows, but the imbalance in resources will remain as imbalanced as ever. There will still be kids starving and dying of Aids in Africa but I guess, being brutal, in those areas of the world the population is self controlling, though I wish it weren't so.

But that's not what makes me sad. What makes me sad is how people view children as a bad thing. Now perhaps I'm biased because I am a parent, but my children have taught me so much. They've taught me what it really means to love, they teach me every day to see the joy in little things, remind me why this Earth is worth protecting for humankind, not for the planet; if humans manage to kill themselves off the planet will go on just fine without us. They remind me of the importance of 'right' and 'wrong', but also challenge what it is that I deem to be 'right' and 'wrong'. They test me, in a way no one else ever has or could. They ask questions I don't know the answer to, and we learn together. We co-operate, understand the need to be individual and yet a 'unit', a family. They help me see what is important and what isn't. They make me see the world through different eyes. Being selfish, I think I would be a lesser person without them, more self centred, less responsible, but then I couldn't have seen those things if they had never been here. Perhaps that in itself is selfish, I don't know.

Increasingly people argue for not having children with' altruistic' statements 'for the sake of the planet' and so on. Sometimes I wonder if this is more a way of justifying the fact that people just don't want children, but are too afraid to admit it. There's nothing wrong with not wanting children, or wanting children for that matter, but saying it's to save the planet seems a little bit bizarre to me (no offence intended). I have to ask the question, if there are no children (yes, this is an extreme example), if humans don't go on, then really, who are we saving the planet for?

[Lily Adams]

You know it's interesting that you raise this Lily, it makes me kind of sad how there's this growing feeling that bringing children into the world is a bad thing, almost as though people are 'sparing' their (let's face it, non-existent) children from the world. If only it were as simple as this:



but it's not that simple is it? In Italy they are trying to encourage people to have children as their population is shrinking, in China they control the number of offspring people can have. It's interesting that it's largely the wealthly western world which is concerned with reducing the population, but taking your premise to the ultimate conclusion this will only mean that there are less people in USA, but the amount of wealth and resources available in USA will remain the same - it's not going to share it with the rest of the world. Ultimately that means that the average American grows richer, or perhaps that the US rich/poor gap grows, but the imbalance in resources will remain as imbalanced as ever. There will still be kids starving and dying of Aids in Africa but I guess, being brutal, in those areas of the world the population is self controlling, though I wish it weren't so.

But that's not what makes me sad. What makes me sad is how people view children as a bad thing. Now perhaps I'm biased because I am a parent, but my children have taught me so much. They've taught me what it really means to love, they teach me every day to see the joy in little things, remind me why this Earth is worth protecting for humankind, not for the planet; if humans manage to kill themselves off the planet will go on just fine without us. They remind me of the importance of 'right' and 'wrong', but also challenge what it is that I deem to be 'right' and 'wrong'. They test me, in a way no one else ever has or could. They ask questions I don't know the answer to, and we learn together. We co-operate, understand the need to be individual and yet a 'unit', a family. They help me see what is important and what isn't. They make me see the world through different eyes. Being selfish, I think I would be a lesser person without them, more self centred, less responsible, but then I couldn't have seen those things if they had never been here. Perhaps that in itself is selfish, I don't know.

Increasingly people argue for not having children with' altruistic' statements 'for the sake of the planet' and so on. Sometimes I wonder if this is more a way of justifying the fact that people just don't want children, but are too afraid to admit it. There's nothing wrong with not wanting children, or wanting children for that matter, but saying it's to save the planet seems a little bit bizarre to me (no offence intended). I have to ask the question, if there are no children (yes, this is an extreme example), if humans don't go on, then really, who are we saving the planet for?

I'm not offended at all. :) This is not something to get offended about. I don't get offended easily anyway. I like different viewpoints because I don't want to be an extremist, either, you know? I hate fundamentalism. Because things are never, ever, ever black and white.

I can totally see what you're saying. Of course I am not a parent (far too young!) so I don't exactly know what that all feels like. But just by reading what you wrote made me think. Thank you.

I see what you are saying about the wealth distribution. Thank you for that as well.

I wish that "self-controlling" population wasn't like that, either. :(

I guess I should have said something more along the lines of "people should have less children" instead of none at all. I just get so angry and sad at our current world situation a lot. I am a pissed-off spud. I see places where there are far too many people, most of them children or young adults who can't do much with the society, and I see them suffering for that and it makes me sad. I'm close to one, so it's pretty hard to ignore. It's so sad that corruption or greed can make this all happen.


Funny, I just got back from playing "Beautiful World" on my piano.

[djy78usa]

It's like the whole "kids these days" argument. It seems like people always want to think that things are worse now than they ever were before. I think it is because most people fear change (not to say that's a bad thing). You know what happened yesterday, but who's to say what will happen today or tomorrow.

[Lily Adams]

It's like the whole "kids these days" argument. It seems like people always want to think that things are worse now than they ever were before. I think it is because most people fear change (not to say that's a bad thing). You know what happened yesterday, but who's to say what will happen today or tomorrow.

Well, yes, but I don't think it necessarily is that way. You are right, people do fear change. It really doesn't have to do with the "kids these days" argument. Humans have always been irrational, it's just that now we have far more destructive means to kill each other and the planet. We're not throwing spears around anymore, but we still have the primal instinct to do that. It's like mother nature is backfiring. We are the most toxic species on the planet. And yet we can be beautiful. We have such potential. I'm not saying we're not using it, but...I don't know. Let's just say the Beginning Was the End.

"There are not yet signs of extra-terrestrial intelligence and this makes us wonder if civilizations like ours rush inevitably, head-long into self-destruction. I dream about it and sometimes they are bad dreams."
-Carl Sagan

Thanks, Pensive, for this topic.

[RJbibliophil]

I have noticed how this world hardly changes. There was just as much opposition to the American civil war and American revolution as there has been to more recent wars. Politicians still break rules. People still die. There is nothing new under the sun.

And yet- it is not a hopeless world. When we find the beautiful things worth living for, life in this world is a blessing despite all the evil.

[Lily Adams]

I have noticed how this world hardly changes. There was just as much opposition to the American civil war and American revolution as there has been to more recent wars. Politicians still break rules. People still die. There is nothing new under the sun.

Some Things Never Change.

[TheFifthElement]

I'm not offended at all. :) This is not something to get offended about. I don't get offended easily anyway. I like different viewpoints

I'm glad to hear that Lily - sometimes it seems difficult to put things into words in a written form without it seeming threatening, but I'm glad you're not offended because:


But just by reading what you wrote made me think.

you made me think about it too!


I guess I should have said something more along the lines of "people should have less children" instead of none at all. I just get so angry and sad at our current world situation a lot. I am a pissed-off spud. I see places where there are far too many people, most of them children or young adults who can't do much with the society, and I see them suffering for that and it makes me sad. I'm close to one, so it's pretty hard to ignore. It's so sad that corruption or greed can make this all happen.

Yes, I think this will happen anyway. I guess we're lucky to live in an age where having children or not having children has become very much an elective choice, and in those countries where it is an elective choice there is a move towards having less children. Contraceptives, as we know them, are still a relatively modern thing (saying that, it just occurred to me that the contraceptive pill has been around for 47 years - which is a lifetime :eek: gosh, I'm getting old!) and they're not without environmental/social impact. But I agree, it is horrible to see children suffer, especially when that suffering is preventable and unnecessary. I guess the sad thing is, when you get to my age, you start to see that nothing really has changed, it is no worse, no better now than it has ever been, just different.

[symphony]

There would still remain the never-resting mind,
So that one would want to escape, come back
To what had been so long composed.
The imperfect is our paradise.
Note that, in this bitterness, delight,
Since the imperfect is so hot in us,
Lies in flawed words and stubborn sounds.


from The Poems Of Our Climate by Wallace Stevens

[Virgil]

Didn't someone say, The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.
That's from Milton's Paradise Lost, and Milton puts those words in Satan's mouth, so I think he means it ironically.


I just think the world is hypocritical, it annoys me!

Oh I bet if we examined your life really carefully we would find lots of hypocrisies. Hypocrisy is something we all share. It is a human trait.

[Shalot]

That's from Milton's Paradise Lost, and Milton puts those words in Satan's mouth, so I think he means it ironically.


Thanks Virgil. For me, it makes a lot of sense, even though I am missing the point and taking it out of context. My point is the we all see the world differently.

[Virgil]

Thanks Virgil. For me, it makes a lot of sense, even though I am missing the point and taking it out of context. My point is the we all see the world differently.

I understand. I was just filling the context since just the other day I came across the quote and looked it up. ;) It is a great quote and I'm torn about using it myself as you did, but alas knowing the context. :D

[1n50mn14]

I really don't think it's a good place to live in. People who beleive it IS haven't seen enough (in my humble opinion). The things around our world, the mountains of garbage, war over oil, religion taking precedence over democracy, democracy taking precedence over democracy (e.g. U.S invasions of Vietnam, etc., in the interests of making Communism obsolete), the crap television we have, the disgusting amounts of pollution and political corruption, the propaganda, etc. I think somebody just screwed up really horribly in making human beings; look what we've done to the world. Look what we're doing to each other.

[1n50mn14]

^__^ And Virgil: I agree with you, hypocrisy (sp, sticky keyboard), is a human trait that we all share. That being said, I don't think it justifies it.

[Dori]

Population is the biggest issue. It is the fundamental cause to everything. If there were less people on this Earth, we could all live comfortably and wouldn't have to worry about global warming, or wars or poverty (more children means more mouths to feed) and all that nearly as much as we do now. And that's why I'm assured, most likely, 99.9% sure that I am NOT having children. Everyone always responds "Oh, you silly. Don't you want to carry on your family line? People who say that are the ones who always have the children and the people who say they want children never do have children." If that was true we wouldn't have the exploding population that we have now, seeing as how most people want children because of the Common Genetic Imperative, or at least it seems like that to me. I honestly could care less about bringing children into this world full of torture and pain and sadness just to see my "family line" get carried on. It doesn't matter anyways-we're all humans. It's not like I'm royalty or something and need an heir. "Saying there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers." Right. Not in this day and age. I wish things were that easy, but people need to eat food and flowers don't make devasting wars that could blow the whole planet up. We are not flowers and flowers are not humans. Big difference. I want and have a different genetic imperative.



The world is a complete paradox.

"When nothing's funny it gets easy to laugh at the drop of a hat or a bomb."

So I suppose there were no wars in Ancient times when the population was less? And climate change isn't exactly I direct product of a large population. Assuming that it is anthropogenic, I would argue that an uneducated, lazy population is the primary cause.


Oh I bet if we examined your life really carefully we would find lots of hypocrisies. Hypocrisy is something we all share. It is a human trait.

That's why I laugh when people call other people hypocrites. :D


I really don't think it's a good place to live in. People who beleive it IS haven't seen enough (in my humble opinion). The things around our world, the mountains of garbage, war over oil, religion taking precedence over democracy, democracy taking precedence over democracy (e.g. U.S invasions of Vietnam, etc., in the interests of making Communism obsolete), the crap television we have, the disgusting amounts of pollution and political corruption, the propaganda, etc. I think somebody just screwed up really horribly in making human beings; look what we've done to the world. Look what we're doing to each other.

This is a very biased view.

[Lily Adams]

Yes, I think this will happen anyway. I guess we're lucky to live in an age where having children or not having children has become very much an elective choice, and in those countries where it is an elective choice there is a move towards having less children. Contraceptives, as we know them, are still a relatively modern thing (saying that, it just occurred to me that the contraceptive pill has been around for 47 years - which is a lifetime :eek: gosh, I'm getting old!) and they're not without environmental/social impact. But I agree, it is horrible to see children suffer, especially when that suffering is preventable and unnecessary. I guess the sad thing is, when you get to my age, you start to see that nothing really has changed, it is no worse, no better now than it has ever been, just different.

Yes, you are right! So there is hope.


So I suppose there were no wars in Ancient times when the population was less? And climate change isn't exactly I direct product of a large population. Assuming that it is anthropogenic, I would argue that an uneducated, lazy population is the primary cause.



Population is the biggest issue. It is the fundamental cause to everything. If there were less people on this Earth, we could all live comfortably and wouldn't have to worry about global warming, or wars or poverty (more children means more mouths to feed) and all that nearly as much as we do now.

Lack of education and laziness is a factor as well. Especially the lack of education. Learning is such a major point in a person's life. Pretty much all of it!

[Shalot]

This is a very biased view.

In what way? I expressed pretty much the same opinion, and you said that mine was biased also. So, for the sake of discussion, maybe you could define bias, and then go on to explain why Becca's post/opinion is biased (and mine for that matter).

[PeterL]

The world is not as fine a place as it will be after my two terms as President of the USA. Many things will change.

[kilted exile]

I really don't think it's a good place to live in. People who beleive it IS haven't seen enough (in my humble opinion). The things around our world, the mountains of garbage, war over oil, religion taking precedence over democracy, democracy taking precedence over democracy (e.g. U.S invasions of Vietnam, etc., in the interests of making Communism obsolete), the crap television we have, the disgusting amounts of pollution and political corruption, the propaganda, etc. I think somebody just screwed up really horribly in making human beings; look what we've done to the world. Look what we're doing to each other.

Going to completely disagree with the first part, then fully agree with the second (if that makes sense to anyone other than myself)

I think the for the vast majority of people I have met, that believe this is the best time to be alive, it is because they have seen more than enough & paid attention to the history of the world.

This may be the most democratic time period (overall) that there has ever been (yes, there are still many countries where democracy is a dream still to be realised & the leaders of such countries would fit into those I described earlier as needing "a swift kick in the pants).

Pollution is a LOT less nowadays than 100, 50 heck even 5 years ago. I dont think anyone would suggest the air was cleaner during the industrial revolution or that waste management was handled in as superior a way as it is now. This is due to technological advances, which were not possible in previous times.

There has always been wars over a variety of consumer goods, just now it's oil(not completely convinced of this by the way, but that is another discussion altogether which probably verges on current politics), previously we have killed each other over silk & spices.

The amount to which religion takes precedence over democracy nowadays is I would argue infantessimal compared to the effect of religion on politics in Elizabethan times & before (quick name a large scale conflict fought solely for religious reasons in the last 200 years). With regards to political parties attempting to win the religious vote, that is just politics and understanding that to get elected you cant afford to alienate a large section of the population.

TV has always been crap, the only difference is that nowadays we see the crap in HD.

Politicians have always been corrupt, there has only been two politicians I have respected as honest, for as long as I have been interested in the subject - Tony Benn & John Hume.

Propaganda is not as powerful a tool anymore either thanks to the information generation we have the benefit of living in. As a result it is less used now than say during the world wars.

Ok, that is the disagreement part. Now for where I fully agree:

You are completely correct "look what we're doing to the world, look what we're doing to each other" - I'm looking but I'm not seeing anything substantially worse, in fact in a lot of ways we are doing better. Not good enough yet, but gradually we will get there. That is why the best place to live in is always 10 years ahead of where we are now, but today is always good too.

[Dori]

In what way? I expressed pretty much the same opinion, and you said that mine was biased also. So, for the sake of discussion, maybe you could define bias, and then go on to explain why Becca's post/opinion is biased (and mine for that matter).

Okay, you both mentioned a lot of bad things that take place in this world, but you failed to mention any good things. Your opinions, as far as I can tell, ignore data. When you ignore data, what you get is biased data sampling.

[Shalot]

Okay, you both mentioned a lot of bad things that take place in this world, but you failed to mention any good things. Your opinions, as far as I can tell, ignore data. When you ignore data, what you get is biased data sampling.

I know I can't really speak for Becca, but my post said that when I read the news (or hear it - usually I am listening to it on the radio) I start to think that the world is a crappy place (it's not an exact quote obviously). From reading Becca's posting I am going to go out on a limb and say that the negative things she hears probably also come from the news.

But as someone else mentioned, the news is a bunch of crap, it's all gossip Newspapers are trying to sell papers or generate revenue through advertising, by getting more people to tune in, and it seems that they get more viewers or listeners or paper sales when they report all the bad news, or sensational, shocking controversy and corruption.

So, I will try to be unbiased and list some good things that I am exposed to everyday, in my own life, and in the news. I'll be back later.

[Dori]

I know I can't really speak for Becca, but my post said that when I read the news (or hear it - usually I am listening to it on the radio) I start to think that the world is a crappy place (it's not an exact quote obviously). From reading Becca's posting I am going to go out on a limb and say that the negative things she hears probably also come from the news.

But as someone else mentioned, the news is a bunch of crap, it's all gossip Newspapers are trying to sell papers or generate revenue through advertising, by getting more people to tune in, and it seems that they get more viewers or listeners or paper sales when they report all the bad news, or sensational, shocking controversy and corruption.

So, I will try to be unbiased and list some good things that I am exposed to everyday, in my own life, and in the news. I'll be back later.

I believe I was the one who said the news was all gossip. :blush: :lol:

[TheFifthElement]

Okay, you both mentioned a lot of bad things that take place in this world, but you failed to mention any good things. Your opinions, as far as I can tell, ignore data. When you ignore data, what you get is biased data sampling.

You know this is an interesting comment, it got me thinking. It seems that it is, on the whole, much easier for people to focus or remember the bad things, whereas the good things often get lost or forgotten. This is part of what I was saying in my post to Lily Adam, that one of the benefits of being around children is that they remind us how to see and focus on the good stuff.

But, I was wondering, why is it easier to focus on or remember the bad stuff? I wondered if it was part of the survival instinct, that perhaps bad, uncomfortable, scary experiences imprint more strongly in our minds, to remind us to avoid doing those things again. So, for example, a child sees a fire, it looks beautiful, reaches out to touch it and gets burned. This becomes a 'survival' memory, something strongly imprinted on the mind telling the child not to touch fire again. This then becomes applied to all the negative experiences we have; but does this also teach us not to trust things that appear to be beautiful? Why is it that the good things are harder to remember, or need regular reinforcement? How many times have we asked someone if they love us, knowing that all evidence, all signs, all prior experience indicates that the answer will most certainly be 'YES', but somehow we fear that the answer may be 'NO'?

[Dori]

You know this is an interesting comment, it got me thinking. It seems that it is, on the whole, much easier for people to focus or remember the bad things, whereas the good things often get lost or forgotten. This is part of what I was saying in my post to Lily Adam, that one of the benefits of being around children is that they remind us how to see and focus on the good stuff.

But, I was wondering, why is it easier to focus on or remember the bad stuff? I wondered if it was part of the survival instinct, that perhaps bad, uncomfortable, scary experiences imprint more strongly in our minds, to remind us to avoid doing those things again. So, for example, a child sees a fire, it looks beautiful, reaches out to touch it and gets burned. This becomes a 'survival' memory, something strongly imprinted on the mind telling the child not to touch fire again. This then becomes applied to all the negative experiences we have; but does this also teach us not to trust things that appear to be beautiful? Why is it that the good things are harder to remember, or need regular reinforcement? How many times have we asked someone if they love us, knowing that all evidence, all signs, all prior experience indicates that the answer will most certainly be 'YES', but somehow we fear that the answer may be 'NO'?

It's because there are more pessimists than optimists in this world. :p I reply more fully later; I have a bus to catch at the moment. :)

[TheFifthElement]

It's because there are more pessimists than optimists in this world. :p I reply more fully later; I have a bus to catch at the moment. :)


Interesting, but is that because pessimism is a survival trait - a dominant gene perhaps? (thus sums up the entire of my understanding of genetics in one sentence!)

[1n50mn14]

In a slightly more coherent mood today, so I'd like to re-post my views before I go for a nice, long walk.

In my PERSONAL and yes, BIASED opinion, because we're all biased (then again, maybe that's just my bias speaking XD), the world is not such a great place to be in right now. Socially, a lot of things have improved- women's rights, religious rights, rights to freedom. War will never stop, nor will political injustice, sociatial injustice, and injustice in general- I think that injustice and the lust for power are human traits which we can't overcome.

I also see people doing very good things for the world- I see so many people volunteering with groups like PEYA and PETA and working for the UN, Feed the Children, etc. Generousity is unsurpassed- it wows me to see some of the truly, selfless things that people are doing.

At the same time, look at the horrible things that we as human beings do to each other, and the earth- we've polluted, we war, we are corrupt, etc. That being said, I don't think any of the above make the world a better or worse place to be in (by a dramatic degree, at any rate), to live in than it ever was in the past. Our evils and the causes we fight for have just shifted.

[1n50mn14]

Dori- this is also an opinion based conversation. Hard data doesn't change, for some people, an opinion. Everybody's entitled. Hell, if it makes me biased, so be it.

[Shalot]

Okay, you both mentioned a lot of bad things that take place in this world, but you failed to mention any good things. Your opinions, as far as I can tell, ignore data. When you ignore data, what you get is biased data sampling.

Well, I said I would be back after I found some articles about what's good in the world, and I didn't find anything. So, it's not that I'm purposely ignoring data - they're just reporting the bad events because it attracts readers. To sell papers and get advertising revenue. IMO. I guess a person can be biased, without being consciously aware of it...

[Dori]

Dori- this is also an opinion based conversation. Hard data doesn't change, for some people, an opinion. Everybody's entitled. Hell, if it makes me biased, so be it.

You have the right to hold an opinion just as I have the right to criticize it. :)

[Zippy]

The world is a great place. It's humans who mess it up. Someone once said 'Hell is other people' and my God were they right!

[Dori]

The world is a great place. It's humans who mess it up. Someone once said 'Hell is other people' and my God were they right!

It is also humanity that makes this world a great place to live in. :)