The Grapes of Wrath

[Shea]

This is a book that I read during my absence from the forums and I can't believe I forgot to ask about it (it bothered me for days)! Did anyone else not want it to end that way? Why was Rose of Sharon myseriously smiling? ugh!! :-?

[Shea]

I refuse to beleive that no one here has ever read this book. Or have we just dwindled our talks about them all together on this forum? (I'm getting rather bored with AbdoRinbo's antics) :-?

[Blackadder]

Oh, I've read it. I just don't remeber the ending very well. I remember what happened, sure. But I don't remember the "smiling" incident. Sorry.

I really liked that book, except for the symbolic chapters that I thought interrupted the flow of the narrative. Other than those irritations, I didn't have a problem with the book. Even with the shocking ending.

[ihrocks]

It's been many years since I've read this one, but to the best of my recollection, that was another of Steinbeck's attempt to put just a bit of life-affirming faith at the end of this harrowing journey. Rose o' Sharon represented the continuity of life, and even though it appears life is defeated (the death of her child) she is, in the end, able to nurture life after all. Her smile is the knowledge that no matter present circumstances, life continues to find a way. She is the seed laying dormant deep in the earth waiting for spring to arrive.

Remember, "Rose of Sharon" is from the Song of Songs, which is loaded with references to fertility of one sort and another.

But then, I haven't read that on in some 20 years, so I could be wrong.

ihrocks

[Shea]

I like your explaination better than what I was thinking of, irocks. I enjoyed Steinbecks descriptive way of writing very much, but that ending just gave me the creeps and I couldn't figure out why he would just leave the reader hanging. This 'continuity of life' makes a lot more sense. I wonder if I'd have figured this out on my own if a friend of mine hadn't alluded to the ending as being perverse before I finished the book.

Now I'm mad at myself because I should have thought of that on my own. :x

[ihrocks]

Don't beat yourself up too badly! You should be proud to have stuck with it and gotten to the end. It's not the happiest book on earth, which may explain why I haven't read it in 20 years.

ihrocks

[Scheherazade]

I am so loving this book! I had started reading it 3+ times in the past never appreciated/finished it so far and now I can hardly put it down. Always thought it to be a sad family story but now I see there is so much more to it.
Just thought I will let y'all know! :D

[Tabac]

It's quite a tome, but worth every minute. Truly an American masterpiece. The ending is so touching! The Henry Fonda b&w movie is worth a watch, because of the charactarization, but the end had to change (not surprising given the year in which it was made - 1940).

[mister_noel_y2k]

i read the grapes of wrath ages ago but recently a friend of mine mentioned the beginning of the story- the turtle walking along the dust path being picked up by tom joad and carried away, and i think it was also on its back or something- and i wondered what it meant. its supposed to be the metaphor that tells you everything about the book right from the start but i cant figure it out, anyone have ideas?


:banana:

[wanderlust_ox]

I've actually started reading the Grapes of Wrath a week ago, but I haven't picked it up since. I've only read about 60 pages of it. I was talking to my sister who did read it, and she said that the turtle walking on the road basically symbolizes the Joad's journey to California, and when the turle was almost ran over by the cars reflects the struggles that they go through. I'm not quite sure that she means by that because I have not read the whole book. But hopefully that helps you.

[Scheherazade]

I agree with Wander's sister's interpretation that the turtle Tom sees on the road symbolizes the Joad family's upcoming journey and struggle. Like the turtle, they have a very hard time travelling in their old truck but they do not give up. Everytime things go wrong, they start over with renewed determination.

[Capnplank]

Some other similarities:

The turtle is determined to go in one direction, though where and what for, Tom Joad does not know. Similarly the Joad family travels to California, resolved to get there, though they do not know exactly what they will do there.
The turtle is hit by a car and skidded off the road if I recall, much like the uncontrollable system that repeatedly deals out blows to the Joad family.

[mister_noel_y2k]

cheers for the thoughts

and also maybe when tom joad picks up the turtle, if the turtle does symbolise the joad family, then maybe it shows the futility of their struggle as in the end their lives are determined by the man (tom joad as the man, the government, and the turtle as the common people being picked up by the government at will and messed around)


:banana:

[iain]

this metaphor works on so many levels.

the car is a passenger car, holding common people. they work to not hurt the turtle. meaning people are good. the truck carrys goods. it is an industrial capitalist machine. it works to smash the turtle.

juxtapose man and nature. the truck becomes the dust bowl, the turtle becomes the joads.

the turtle is moving west. just like the rest of america. we've always expanded west. its what we do.

tom joad picks up the turtle, and it becomes his property. like when you owe too much money to the bank.

take it any way you like, its a beautiful thing. however, the most important thing to remember when reading this book, is the 1st page. read it over a few times. it was rewritten dozens of times.

[novellover]

Hello fellow readers
I just started reading one of the classics written by the great American writer John Steinbeck called Grapes of Wrath. I am still in the initial stages, where the stage is being set for the "main drama". So far, it seems interesting. The one thing I noted about his writing is how vividly he's described the hot, muggy days in the souther part of America. Right from "the shirts stained a darker color in the back" to the "dust-gathering corn". An interesting question he has raised through a character is on the relevance of religion and the concept of sin and virtue.
Has anyone else any thoughts to share on this book or writer in general?
From
Novellover

[Logos]

Hello novellover, welcome to the Literature Network :)

I've moved this topic of yours from the Book Requests section to the General Literature section, you will get more responses here.

[nickelsilver]

Hi, novellover--
I love the Grapes of Wrath and John Steinbeck. Some people rave about his East of Eden, but for me G of W is his best.
You're right that he does a good job of description, but unlike some authors who seem only to focus on description (of setting or characters or both), Steinbeck also keeps a really good plot line going.
G of W is good right to the end, so keep with it!
:nod:

[Mark F.]

This is acyually the last book I finished reading, and I enjoyed it. The characters are all colourful but my favorite parts of the novel are the chapters that cut up Steinbeck's narrative of the Joads' journey to describe the entire population's living conditions. The very first chapter is incredible, so weird to open a book with a description of the movement of dust.

[Scheherazade]

Hi Novellover,

Welcome to the Forum! :)

I can easily say that GoW is one of my favorite books. I have read some other books of Steinbeck (Of Mice and Men, Canary Row, Moon is Down) but I think GoW exceeds others in both writing and subject matter. Steinbeck is one of those rare authors, who can describe a single tree for two pages, without boring the reader. And his style is not forced. I hope you carry on reading and share your thoughts with us when you finish the book.

There are some other discussion threads on GoW:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1281&highlight=grapes+wrath

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12466&highlight=grapes+wrath

[Aurora Ariel]

I've also read The Grapes of Wrath and East of Eden just recently.
Earlier I has also read Of Mice and Men.Of the first two which one did you prefer?Which character do you find most appealing or well written?
I have yet to read any other Steinbeck books , but am aware of the others.

[novellover]

Thanks for the interesting remarks on the book. I've read the introduction of another book of his, Tortilla Flat, which seemed quite interesting though I had to return the book before I got to reading it. Anyways, once I'm done with G of W, I think I'll try to get a hold of another copy of Tortilla Flat. Anyone read it?

[mia wallace]

the chapters in between the ones describing the Jodes are called interchapters. im reading this book right now in my american literature class. its not really my type of book but its a good one. i assume that they are making us read it for a reason.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

Nobody had to make me read this book. I started and I couldn't stop - wait till you get to the end - the last scene is so touching I cried for a week - and I'm a big, hulking, supposedly-insensitive bloke!

It's one of those books that shows you another way of life so vividly that you can feel yourself living it. I don't think there can be a higher goal for an author than that they can achieve that. :nod:

[jackyyyy]

This is a fantastic piece of work. I saw this thread and diving into it to read your comments. Thanks for reminding me. Compulsory reading.

[ShoutGrace]

I really liked how in the very very beginning of the book, Steinbeck said that the men were "figuring". I was confused as to what exactly this meant until later when he explained that the men were computing mortgages, deeds and such in the dirt.

This book was so depressing. On the bright side, it makes us appreciate the situations we're in more!

[RobinHood3000]

Proof that it sucks to be poor at any point in time, in any place. And I thought the Victorians had it bad.

[Mark F.]

Nobody had to make me read this book. I started and I couldn't stop - wait till you get to the end - the last scene is so touching I cried for a week - and I'm a big, hulking, supposedly-insensitive bloke!

It's one of those books that shows you another way of life so vividly that you can feel yourself living it. I don't think there can be a higher goal for an author than that they can achieve that. :nod:

The end is beautiful, I'll not say anything else cause I don't want to spoil it for anyone.

Since I last posted I've read "Of Mice and Men", a while back now, and although it's good I think "The Grapes of Wrath" is far better.

[rinots]

How is this line written; 'no effort is spared in suppressing people's reaction to suffering while the cause of that suffering goes unheeded' ? It's driving me crazy and I lost my book!!

[Scheherazade]

You can scan the text for certain words here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0141185066/ref=sib_dp_srch_pop?v=search-inside&keywords=unheeded

How about this quote?

"And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed."

[rinots]

And the only the means to destroy revolt are considered, while the cause of revolt goes on. I feel much better after a trip to the library and 1q5 minutes of scouring through the book for a 17 word sentence. I noticed how the book goes from narrative to plot to narrative in intervals... interesting.

[Lalla]

Hello everybody, thank you logos for the information
I am french and i try to read The grapes of wrath.

I have some difficulties to understand several expressions, can anyone help me please ?

For example, what does this mean :

"I'd a walked her if my dogs wasn't pooped out"
(chapter 2)

In chapter 4, Joad and Casy are talking about pulling girls in the grass - i think i understand this... - and then Casy says : "You [Joad] was always too busy pullin'little girls'pigtails when i give you the holy sperit"

And finally, please what does "to figger" mean ?

thank you !

[PeterL]

Hello everybody, thank you logos for the information
I am french and i try to read The grapes of wrath.

I have some difficulties to understand several expressions, can anyone help me please ?

For example, what does this mean :

"I'd a walked her if my dogs wasn't pooped out"
(chapter 2)

"Dogs" can mean feet. He would have taken her for a walk, if his feet hadn't felt tired.



And finally, please what does "to figger" mean ?

Figger means "figure".



Steinbeck was not one of the best authors for people who are not familiar with regional dialects to understand.

[Lalla]

OK, thank you very much !

[Mockingbird_z]

well I undersatnd you!
i read it too and the dialects Steinbeck is trying to convey are sometimes really very difficult to understand, luckily the book i read was with appendix and there i could find the explanation of some of the most frequent phrases.
so wish you good luck! this book is really worth reading.

[Lalla]

Thanks for encouragements !

I have read other novels by Steinbeck translated in French and that I really found easy to read, but if I will understand such a big book as the Grapes of wrath in American English is an uncertain thing.

What is upsetting about Steinbeck is that even if you are absolutly unconcerned by the characters and circumstances he related, you still want to mix with them.
It makes me think about the film Scarecrow with Al pacino and Gene Hackman : ever seen it ?