The Vatican List New Sins

[NickAdams]

"March 10, 2008 -- VATICAN CITY -- Thou shall not pollute the Earth. Thou shall beware genetic manipulation. Modern times bring with them modern sins. So the Vatican has told the faithful that they should be aware of "new" sins such as causing environmental blight."

What do you think about it? Is this to back up their stance against issues like stem cells?

[vheissu]

What do you think about it? Is this to back up their stance against issues like stem cells?

I hope not! I'd be out of a job! :p
Don't want to sound rude, but I think you meant 'cloning' as an issue that the Vatican might be against and especially human cloning and the use of human embryos for experimental use.
The stem cell field has become so widespread it's almost become imperative to define what you're actually talking about...I'd dread to think what would happen if we weren't allowed to work with any type of stem cell. Most of regenerative medicine is based on some aspect of using stem cells.

Can the Catholic Church actually issue a new list of sins? I'm not religious and unless I have completely forgotten all the lessons on Christianity I had to take at school, it was God who dictated the original mortal sins, right? So it would seem to me that the Church doesn't have the 'power' to issue a new, modern set. They could call them guidances if they wish.

[NickAdams]

I hope not! I'd be out of a job! :p
Don't want to sound rude, but I think you meant 'cloning' as an issue that the Vatican might be against and especially human cloning and the use of human embryos for experimental use.


Embryos yes; cloning no. Embryos for organ repair.



Can the Catholic Church actually issue a new list of sins? I'm not religious and unless I have completely forgotten all the lessons on Christianity I had to take at school, it was God who dictated the original mortal sins, right? So it would seem to me that the Church doesn't have the 'power' to issue a new, modern set. They could call them guidances if they wish.

If God is all knowing, then they would have been included. They were omitted in the original for a reason. But, Catholicism and Christianity are different. The Pope seems to have more say then God.

[ntropyincarnate]

The Pope is supposed to be like an earth-to-God link, and is supposed to be infallible, so basically whatever he says comes from God.

[NickAdams]

The Pope is supposed to be like an earth-to-God link, and is supposed to be infallible, so basically whatever he says comes from God.

Shouldn't all men have a link to God? What was Jesus for then?

[Whifflingpin]

Perhaps a proper reference would be useful, so that we could discuss something meaningful, rather than a silly newspaper headline.

[ntropyincarnate]

Shouldn't all men have a link to God? What was Jesus for then?

I'm not Catholic, I was just saying what they believe. They think that the Pope is like God's advocate on earth. Basically he speaks for God. And also they think he is without sin, and since Catholicism is more works-oriented than Protestantism it's like he's more worthy to speak to God or something like that. I'm not quite sure. If there are any Catholics around and I'm getting this completely wrong, sorry.

[pbmn]

No, you have it right. Everyone is linked to God, but the Pope is, as Catholics believe, the servant of God and everyone on Earth. Since the papacy was originated by Jesus through Peter, Catholics believe that the Pope has a different link to God, almost like a representative of Him. That's how I interpret it as a Catholic.

And in Matthew 5:17-48 (if I remember correctly), Jesus enhanced the Mosaic Law (aka Ten Commandments). As Christians, we are supposed to imitate Christ, so the Vatican has always enhanced the Law to meet modern demands. Everything can fit under one of the Ten Commandments. (for example: Stem cell research [depending on the type] kills embryos; Thou Shalt Not Kill)

[Morten]

Hm. Interesting. How about:

Thou shall not condemn writers and chase them into exile (like they did to Saramago)

Thou shall not condemn the use of contraception when the African continent is plagued by AIDS.

No? Thought not, Mr. Pope.


No, you have it right. Everyone is linked to God, but the Pope is, as Catholics believe, the servant of God and everyone on Earth. Since the papacy was originated by Jesus through Peter, Catholics believe that the Pope has a different link to God, almost like a representative of Him. That's how I interpret it as a Catholic.

And in Matthew 5:17-48 (if I remember correctly), Jesus enhanced the Mosaic Law (aka Ten Commandments). As Christians, we are supposed to imitate Christ, so the Vatican has always enhanced the Law to meet modern demands. Everything can fit under one of the Ten Commandments. (for example: Stem cell research [depending on the type] kills embryos; Thou Shalt Not Kill)

'Thou shall not kill' is very vague. How about when I kill time? Or when I kill a bee?

[pbmn]

Thou shall not condemn the use of contraception when the African continent is plagued by AIDS.


Hmmm... I don't think that contraception really protects one from AIDS, I am actually pretty certain that they have a notice on the back of the box or whatever that says that it doesn't. (Or is that only condoms...?)

Contraception=no babies (most of the time;))


'Thou shall not kill' is very vague. How about when I kill time? Or when I kill a bee?

Are you supporting what I said? It definitely sounds so, although I am unsure. That is what I said, that when Jesus and the Vatican set the "new" sins, they are being more specific and modernizing the original Ten Commandments. And I think you know what it means by "Thou shalt not kill"...

[pbmn]

You are probably correct (I honestly have no clue about that subject), but that isn't what Morten was implying:


Thou shall not condemn the use of contraception when the African continent is plagued by AIDS.

He's implying that contraception prevents STDs, when in actuallity, has no affect towards it, or at least not a large enough amount to say that it does prevent these STDs. That's what it sounded like in my opinion.


Sorry, I started posting this before you edited...

[Lote-Tree]

[COLOR="Red"]"March 10, 2008 -- VATICAN CITY -- Thou shall not pollute the Earth.


Tad bit too late I think!



Thou shall beware genetic manipulation.


You can't stop progress.



What do you think about it?


Genetic manipulation as sin?

Nay! It would be ludicrous!



Is this to back up their stance against issues like stem cells?

Stem cells from aborted foetueses - is unethical by human standards...but science will find other ways...

[SirRaustusBear]

Morten was saying condoms prevent AIDS, which they do

[pbmn]

Not all condoms do, actually, the majority of the time, they are ineffective towards STDs. I'll definitely look into it.


The Vatican Council isn't banning genetics per say, only the use of embryos and, of course, cloning. Nothing inhumane about curing diseases...

[SirRaustusBear]

I don't know where you go to school, but my high school was in North Carolina where they teach only abstinence. Thus we learned no actual sex ed but I wrote a story on the subject for my newspaper class and had to obtain research from the CDC and the WHO. Basically trials involving parters where only one had AIDS determined that condoms are over 99% effective at preventing the transmission of AIDS. They describe condonms as an "essentially impermeable barrier" for pathogens. The following is from the Center for Disease Control's website.

Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing heterosexual sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Research on the effectiveness of latex condoms in preventing heterosexual transmission is both comprehensive and conclusive. The ability of latex condoms to prevent transmission has been scientifically established in laboratory studies as well as in epidemiologic studies of uninfected persons at very high risk of infection because they were involved in sexual relationships with HIV-infected partners. The most recent meta-analysis of epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness was published by Weller and Davis in 2004. This analysis refines and updates their previous report published in 1999. The analysis demonstrates that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection against heterosexual transmission of HIV. It should be noted that condom use cannot provide absolute protection against HIV. The surest way to avoid transmission of HIV is to abstain from sexual intercourse or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.

Here's a link: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/condom.htm

If you live in America, people tend to push abstinence not because it is much safer than contraceptives (though it is true that it is the only foolproof method), but because abstinence is morally accepted and those in power are willing to use fear to get kids to follow moral norms.

[pbmn]

Well, there IS something new you learn everyday. I do live in America, so that makes sense, and the fact that I go to a Catholic high school only heightens the reason why your explanation makes more sense. Weird...

[Orionsbelt]

Normally I would regard these kind of announcements from the pope as rather, well, out of place, etc. I believe that as humanity works it's way through more and more complex problems and dilemmas there is little room for kings, pharaohs, and high priests. Being rooted to ancient systems in the ways that so many modern cultures are is in my opinion an impediment. So the paradox of the ancient teaching "be fruitful, multiply, and have dominion over the earth" comes into conflict with physical reality. Having said that I have to applaud his effort as much as I chuckle about the light in which it is cast. Thou hast pooped in the garden Adam so you and your seed are condemned spend your days cleaning it up. That someone so buried in the dust of the dessert can manage to make this pronouncement gives me a little hope. There are questions more serious than the proper use and placement of latex that need addressed in the context of culture (read those not promoting their book). So far I think very few are stepping up. Never thought I'd see it in this pope.

[crazyed]

It's a day late and a dollar short coming from an establishment futilely struggling to avoid being perceived as criminally behind the times.

Too late!

[Ancestor]

I believe not matter what the Vatican says people will do what people want to do. I have seen many faithful people but I have seen far to many people whom were not faithful in their own faith.

[El Viejo]

It's a day late and a dollar short coming from an establishment futilely struggling to avoid being perceived as criminally behind the times.

Too late!

The Vatican does tend to be late. Big bureaucracy. Long traditions. Old men. And one of the men has the option of being infallible.