Importation and exportation of democracy

[Remarkable]

This is more political philosophy,but still,it is a question that has made me think a lot lately.

About one week ago we had to write something on Social Studies about democracy.My topic was this:

"Can democracy be exported or imported?Doesn't this exportation or importation clash with the very concept of democracy?"

I said that importation is very important and neccecary.I also wrote that democracy is about opening minds and sharing experiences,so it actually helps make the picture of this political and social system fuller,it doesn't deny it.I used Kosovo as an evidence and also countries where democracy is still young:in the end,they would have never succeded if they had not taken the concept from somewhere.A friend of mine also sugessted,later,that since democracy is accepted to be the best system yet,then it's importation or exportation is justified.Although,and I made this specific today,but not in my paper,exportation can only be achieved by violence while importation is a procces that takes place when the people want it.

My teacher didn't aprecciate this and gave me an unsattisfying grade but that does not concern me.What concerns me is the fact that while trying to teach democracy to us,our mentors show their dictatorial sides.When my thesis is based on arguments and justified by them,it has to be accepted.

I was also thinking now (since I have decided to protect my theory tomorrow with strong arguments) that countries are built primarly on importation of ideas.If we take as example countries that started consolidating as states after WWII then we see that the ones who illuminated the people where educated elswhere and also the ideas of how to built the country were taken from outside.It is the only way,I think,to put democracy in practice.You cannot use a system of an idea until you know that system or idea throughly.And that is what importation and exportation stand for in this case,isn't it?

[manolia]

Well we can't really discuss this subject because lots of current politics will be needed ;)
Most of the time what is imported in a country in the form of "illuminated people who were educated elsewhere" isn't democracy. Now i am self moderating myself and stop there ;)
And please don't let me start on the example you used ;)

[Remarkable]

Well,that is exactly the point.Whether democracy should be or not imported is not a question of current politics.It is a question of concepts,principles and choices.If I speak about the ability of people to absorbe democracy that has nothing to do with actual political events.That doesn't even have to do with the left wing or the right wing,even as these in itself are mere concepts and not current politics.

As for the example I mentioned,right now it is not important what political system they used,it is important how they made themselves work to keep the countries running.Oh,and it wouldn't fall in the category of current politics,since it's long gone,so if you like,we can disccus about that.

[manolia]

Well,that is exactly the point.Whether democracy should be or not imported is not a question of current politics.It is a question of concepts,principles and choices.If I speak about the ability of people to absorbe democracy that has nothing to do with actual political events.That doesn't even have to do with the left wing or the right wing,even as these in itself are mere concepts and not current politics.

Hmmm..you are talking about an ideal state of being. Unfortunately politics and bad intentions do get in the way. My (short) experience has taught me that when people do get meddle (to import piece and democracy) it's not always for the best ;) and it isn't always done with good intentions.
What i am saying is that you can't have a discussion only about the ability of people to "absorb" (accept, adapt etc) democracy without having in mind other factors as well (because people's choices and ability to accept a political system are greatly influenced by these factors). One thing is sure, that people should have reached a certain level of maturity (through education mostly) in order to understand the basic principles of democracy etc

Look, it's really hard for me to have a decent discussion without bringing up examples. Perhaps this is my inadequacy ;)

And you talk about democracy like it is a product which countries can trade between themselves(joking) :)



As for the example I mentioned,right now it is not important what political system they used,it is important how they made themselves work to keep the countries running.Oh,and it wouldn't fall in the category of current politics,since it's long gone,so if you like,we can disccus about that.

I am afraid that you misunderstood what i meant (or perhaps i was the one who didn't want to say much). What i was reffering to, is definately not long gone ;)

[kilted exile]

I say we should blame the greeks and romans - this nonsense about democracy is the main hinderance to me claiming my rightful position as ruler of the planet.

[tkkenyon]

I, too, do not want to discuss current politics because tensions are high, and I have no desire to start a flame war merely because people have well-thought-out, deeply felt opinions on the current situation.

However, can democracy be imported or exported? That's an interesting question.

Trying to stay abstract here: I would have had a different answer a few years ago, but it seems to me that rule by the people cannot be forced upon the people. The people must seize it. (I sound so Che, here, and I don't even like Che.)

A democracy is an accomplishment. You can't give people the ability to play the piano or dance ballet. They have to learn that for themselves, and the dedication and work to create it give it value. (The capitalism of politics, perhaps?)

That said, ideas can be imported. Teachers of piano and ballet can be imported. (Mine all were.) Citizens who have studied abroad can smuggle ideas back in with them.

As for exporting, the internet has unlocked the world of ideas. Books of theory can be distributed for free and freely (Gutenberg Project!) Everyone has a blog. News is free access. You can even read just about any book in the world, even those under copyright, by searching Google books. Unless the government locks up the internet (North Korea, sorry about the current reference,) the ideas are there for the taking.

However, there must be a core of people willing to sacrifice everything for freedom. ("Give me liberty, or give me death!") If you don't have a Patrick Henry, a Thomas Jefferson, and an Alexander Hamilton around, (perhaps because they left the country because it was too dangerous,) it's not going to work.

People who seize power, whether it's a democratic form of power like George Washington, or an autocratic form of power like Lenin, etc., are bold and endowed with a certain kind of genius, a genius for convincing and motivating people to do their will. This kind of genius can be moral, like in the case of GW and the founding fathers, or immoral and profoundly evil, like Hitler. (See! Not talking about current politics!)

Some societies seize democracy, like the old Soviet bloc states. I'm old enough to remember the Berlin Wall falling. It still chokes me up. (See! Not current!)

Although, it must be noted, that I believe we haven't heard the whole story there, and someday, the books on the covert operations will be written.

The thing that most concerns me about your post, "Remarkable," is that your expressed an opinion different than the teacher, and your grade was adversely affected. I'm taking you at your word that you produced a good essay (please don't take offense, this is the internet, and you could be anybody, but you do seem quite coherent and cogent for a high school student, which I'm assuming you are by your references to a "social studies teacher," as opposed to a "poli sci prof,") and it is too bad that you graded lower for your political beliefs. The only comfort that I can give you is that the teacher did wrong, and you're in the right. Sometimes, being correct is politically incorrect.

TK Kenyon

[manolia]

I say we should blame the greeks and romans - this nonsense about democracy is the main hinderance to me claiming my rightful position as ruler of the planet.

haha..you know what i think about ancient greek democracy, don't you?

You could be a ruler of the planet.......just get in your space craft and return to your own planet ;) :p

(where people are green uncouth and swamp creatures)