Winston and Julia

[bazarov]

Winston Smith is a clerk in one of Party Ministries; in Ministry of Truth. He's job is to change history or simplified; to change written historical documents so they appear just like Party want them to look so they can show that everything what
Party ever did was good and what Party is doing now is maybe even better.

One day he mets Julia, young girl who also works in Party. After she gave him a ''I love you'' note, they start a relationship. For them, it's an act of standing against Party. Every kind of relationship or sex between Party Members is forbidden. In marriage, sex is only allowed for reproduction; for creating new Party members. They shouldn't feel anything for any other mens; only love for Big Brother and Party. Therefore, they are in constant fear of Thought Police but also, they promise each other they they will go with it all till the end, which will undoubtedly come, because everyone gets caught and everyone confess, according to Julia. Winston doesn't agree, even if he confess; that doesn't change his feelings.

Winston and Julia; lovers and rebels, are trying to become members of anti-Party Brotherhood. Winston wants it because of his believe that there was history; that there was something else except Party. Julia is not sure if Winston is right, but rebelion inside of her also wants to act against Party. Of course, everything was a setup by Thought Police end they end up caught in room above antique store; a place of their usual meeting. During period of torture and brainwashing by O'Brien, Smith surrenders intellectually, but keep his idea: he knows he will
eventually be killed, but secretly he intends to continue hating Big Brother an Party - and loving Julia. It's his only victory against Party, just like he said to Julia - he can confess, but they can't change his inner feelings.

However, Smith's resolve to continue loving Julia is burned away when he finally enters Room 101. Smith has a particular horror of rats. Knowing this, O'Brien threatens to let rats devour Smith's face, and in utter desperation he finally begs his torturers that they do this to Julia instead. Same thing happened to Julia. She had to face with probably her greatest fear - multiple rape by Party Members.

Party again won. They successfully killed any human emotions in Winston and Julia and forced them to betray and deny one each other. They are meeting again but they realize that it doesn't matter any more - they don't like each other any more. Their feelings of love are replaced by greater and purer feelings - love for Party and Big Brother and that was the greatest victory Party could achieve. ''I love Big Brother!'' happily said Winston...

[jasmine1991]

In your opinion, were winston and julia foolish for getting involved with one another? If you were Winston or Julia, would it have been worth it to you to have what they had, even though it will probably end in death for them?

[bazarov]

Check Winston and Julia thread.

[emeli351]

I wonder, does anyone know how julia knew winston was a rebel against big brother? If he acted so obviously rebellious one would think the thought police would have caught him by now, but they havent, i dont know how julia when she first made contact with him was sure itd be safe to talk to him when he could havew just as easily been a thought police.

[bazarov]

Love takes risk :D

[Guernica]

In your opinion, were winston and julia foolish for getting involved with one another? If you were Winston or Julia, would it have been worth it to you to have what they had, even though it will probably end in death for them?


Of course it was dangerous to get involved with eachother... and it could go either way. In Winston's view, he was going to die anyway and probably very soon, so why not live until the end? Julia, on the other hand, wanted to live her life to the fullest, and despised the Party and Big Brother enough to take any possible chance to rebel against them.
Their relationship was at first entirely lust to Winston; but he eventually grew to care for and love Julia. This may have been an even more dangerous, and possibly fate-deciding event.

[Broadwaygirl]

I am about half way through with 1984 and was wandering about the character Julia. So far she is a complex character who turned out to be a different person then who we thought she would be. I was wondering though, does she really want to be involved with the rebellion. She seems only concerned with politics if it has to do with herself. At first I thought she wanted to be a part of it, but when Winston and Julia were talking in their bedroom about the past, Julia told us in a way, she was only interested if it effected her. I was just a bit confused, Thank you. :)

[CABelieve]

Also, It is Argued that Winston and Julia aren't Truely in love, that their relationship is merely a political act, rebellion against Big Brother. Im only halfway through the book too, but i think its both. It may have started out as merely rebelling, but then turned into love? any comments?:thumbs_up

[The Atheist]

Also, It is Argued that Winston and Julia aren't Truely in love, that their relationship is merely a political act, rebellion against Big Brother. Im only halfway through the book too, but i think its both. It may have started out as merely rebelling, but then turned into love? any comments?:thumbs_up

Wait till you've finished?

:)

[GirlWithABook]

After the capture and torture of Winston and Julia, what happens to Julia? :(

[burmesedays]

I've wondered that myself, maybe someday I'll take it upon myself to write all the extra stories that can be built upon characters in 1984. Like Parsons for example, that could be a lengthy short story all in itself. I'd assume the same thing happens to Julia as happens to Winston, she eventually gets shot, when she least expects it. Since the Jones and Rutherford incident, I doubt that they would keep anyone alive who has committed thought crime.

I thought about what Julia's torture would have been, and even after reading the book two times in succession, I still couldn't guess, but rape by inner party members makes absolute perfect sense! It was the only peeve that she even hinted at.

[CeruleanKat]

I personally don't think that Julia and Winston are in love. They make love as a form of rebellion. I also think that the reason they do that is because they don't know what being in love is. They may think they're in love, but wouldn't know if they were because they've never experienced it or saw it for themselves. They live in a society where being "in love" doesn't exist. So, I think that they are not in love, although I wasn't as confident in my answer when Winston called out to Julia and said that he had loved her more than when they were together near the end of the book.:)

[¡Finallyworked.]

Is julia pregnant at the end of the book. She shows signs of it, she got fatter, feet swelled. Just would like to know.

[The Atheist]

Is julia pregnant at the end of the book. She shows signs of it, she got fatter, feet swelled. Just would like to know.

Definitely not.

Like Winston, she had been completely re-programmed and she would have gone through the same beating & recovery mode that Winston did. She has essentially become a robot. Whereas she retained a slim body in the past from lack of calorific food, we know that once the process is complete inside Miniluv, the victims are fed up and allowed to become healthy.

In Julia's case, she put on some weight.

[delta-fan]

I've wondered that myself, maybe someday I'll take it upon myself to write all the extra stories that can be built upon characters in 1984. Like Parsons for example, that could be a lengthy short story all in itself. I'd assume the same thing happens to Julia as happens to Winston, she eventually gets shot, when she least expects it. Since the Jones and Rutherford incident, I doubt that they would keep anyone alive who has committed thought crime.

I thought about what Julia's torture would have been, and even after reading the book two times in succession, I still couldn't guess, but rape by inner party members makes absolute perfect sense! It was the only peeve that she even hinted at.

I agree with you on Julias torture- I had no idea either, until someone hinted about the rape from inner party members...

[omni29]

why would you say that it was rape??

[Wilde woman]

She had to face with probably her greatest fear - multiple rape by Party Members.

Is there a passage in the book where Julia actually says this is her greatest fear? I haven't read the book in a while, but I remember that Julia is quite a sexual creature. Whether or not she likes to have sex simply to rebel against the Party or if she's naturally horny is, I think, left ambiguous.

I'm not saying that rape by Party members wouldn't be something she would fear, but is it ever supported in the book? From what I remember, Julia admitted that she's had sex with many Party members...

[The Atheist]

why would you say that it was rape??


Is there a passage in the book where Julia actually says this is her greatest fear? I haven't read the book in a while, but I remember that Julia is quite a sexual creature. Whether or not she likes to have sex simply to rebel against the Party or if she's naturally horny is, I think, left ambiguous.

I'm not saying that rape by Party members wouldn't be something she would fear, but is it ever supported in the book? From what I remember, Julia admitted that she's had sex with many Party members...

No, there are no passages which say that's the case.

The reason I think it's likely is the only clue Orwell gives us is Julia's disgust at Winston's question about whether she has had sex with Inner Party members.

Pure speculation.

[Belizabeth]

Is julia pregnant at the end of the book. She shows signs of it, she got fatter, feet swelled. Just would like to know.
I honestly think so i mean it wouldn't be a surprise they did engage in a lot of sexual activities.. but it would be a very devastating event.

I also don't understand why these two can't be together, i mean there are other people within the book that's married.

[Belizabeth]

I personally don't think that Julia and Winston are in love. They make love as a form of rebellion. I also think that the reason they do that is because they don't know what being in love is. They may think they're in love, but wouldn't know if they were because they've never experienced it or saw it for themselves. They live in a society where being "in love" doesn't exist. So, I think that they are not in love, although I wasn't as confident in my answer when Winston called out to Julia and said that he had loved her more than when they were together near the end of the book.:)
I strongly agree with you. :)

[The Atheist]

I honestly think so i mean it wouldn't be a surprise they did engage in a lot of sexual activities.. but it would be a very devastating event.

Nope, I'm certain she wasn't.

Even had she gotten pregnant, the Party would have aborted the foetus.


I also don't understand why these two can't be together, i mean there are other people within the book that's married.

Because they loved each other. It was plain that as long as your desire was to breed party members, marriage was acceptable. Love isn't, unless it's love for BB or the Party. Love for individuals is bordering on Thoughtcrime, passion for anything outside of the Party or the Party's wishes, is forbidden.


I strongly agree with you. :)

Sorry, but I have to disagree again. I missed the original post.

It doesn't matter whether their love was born of desperation, lust or fantasy, they were in love, and the proof is given in Room 101. It was putting Julia in his place that broke Winston. Had he not genuinely loved her, it wouldn't have mattered at all.

[IJustMadeThatUp]

It doesn't matter whether their love was born of desperation, lust or fantasy, they were in love, and the proof is given in Room 101. It was putting Julia in his place that broke Winston. Had he not genuinely loved her, it wouldn't have mattered at all.

You've just cleared something up for me. I'd often wondered whether Winston's love was real and had never thought of it like that. Thanks :)

[Gladys]

Of course it was dangerous to get involved with eachother... and it could go either way.

It could go either way? Winston's every move was monitored even before he met Julia - surely they had no hope from the beginning.


O'Brien:___This drama that I have played out with you during seven years will be played out over and over again generation after generation, always in subtler forms.

Does this mean the Thought Police waited almost seven years before acting against Winston and Julia? Why such a delay in acting? Were the Thought Police simply waiting to establish the weaknesses of both?

[bazarov]

Does this mean the Thought Police waited almost seven years before acting against Winston and Julia? Why such a delay in acting? Were the Thought Police simply waiting to establish the weaknesses of both?

Yes, they keep constant monitoring and control, nothing and nobody can escape from them. It was just a matter of time when they will show weakness and get caught. It was 7 years in Winston and Julia's case, maybe longer or shorter in other cases.

[Gladys]

It was just a matter of time when they will show weakness and get caught.

Is Winston apprehended soon after he discloses fear of rats or Julia, fear of rape?

[bazarov]

Is Winston apprehended soon after he discloses fear of rats or Julia, fear of rape?

Moment of arresting doesn't necessary had to be connected with disclosing of what someones greatest fear is. Once they enter Room 101, they fear will quickly be discovered, it's really not a problem.

[Gladys]

Moment of arresting doesn't necessary had to be connected with disclosing of what someone's greatest fear is.

Then why wait seven years!!

[bazarov]

Then why wait seven years!!

They have to make a mistake first, then they will enter Room 101.

[Gladys]

They have to make a mistake first...

Am I missing something? Here's my understanding, having just read 1984.

Seven years before their arrest, O'Brien and his Thought Police determined that Winston, and soon after Julia, were guilty of 'thought crime'. Presumably, they searched Winston's flat and found the book, as well as receiving damning reports from Mr Charrington and the telescreen behind the picture.

Winston, and Julia had made their capital mistake way back then!

[Sindel]

I can understand why some people question Winston's love (or not) for Julia. As said by The Atheist, the answer is probably yes, he loves her sincerely.

But my guess is that Orwell did not even think of reassuring the reader about this love. The main point seems to be that when you get fond of another person, you might become less fond of Big Brother. (We all have felt, or at least witnessed, that infatuation can isolate couples from the world around them) Hopes, desires and visions of a better future reduce their dependance towards BB, and if something is strongly stated in this book, it is that BB is a jealous god, who "lays traps for troubadors before they reach..." ...the unexisting opposition.

For me, Orwell puts Winston in situations where he starts to think that he can choose, only to establish in the end that under BB's rule, you have only one choice. So why not love it?

Is it not a ruling party's dream? Becoming so central in everybody's life that practically every measure of energy goes to the profit of the party, instead of being wasted in romance, poetry, aspirations and all those stupid things, unfit for a mere cattle?

Channel a human's libido, add fear, some mysticism, and you get the perfect slave.

Having addressed this matter moves me so that after posting, I am going to do the first (sweet) thing that crosses my mind, something unexpected and totally created by my personal fantasy. Just to celebrate that I'm no Winston, thanks life!

[The Atheist]

But my guess is that Orwell did not even think of reassuring the reader about this love.

I actually think that's because Orwell didn't know much about the subject himself.

[Sindel]

I actually think that's because Orwell didn't know much about the subject himself.

Word!:thumbs_up

[The Lukewarm]

Same thing happened to Julia. She had to face with probably her greatest fear - multiple rape by Party Members.


Since there's no real reference to Julia's greatest fear in the book and the hipotesis of the fear of being raped by members of the inner party is pure speculation, could the answer be in the scar Winston saw in her forehead, after they were relased by the miniluv?

Maybe her greatest fear was related to somehow losing her beauty or youth, taking into consideration her narcissism, which is quite clear in several passages.

Also, I wonder if was anyone ever not just threatened by his greatest fear in the room 101, but actually submmited to it. I guess the answer is yes, if we remember of the guy in Winston's cell (the one that impressed Winston by the thinness and to whom a piece of cheese was offered, resulting in the punishment of the offerer by the guards), it was said: "not the room 101 again! put my children and wife there, but not me again!". It suggests that this man had already went through the 101 process, and possibly even resisted to the first attempt, not betraying his most loved person, which he ends up doing, however, when threatened by a second submission.

[Gladys]

Since there's no real reference to Julia's greatest fear in the book and the hypothesis of the fear of being raped by members of the inner party is pure speculation... Is this so?

[The Atheist]

Is this so?

Damn, your spell checker is a good one.

;)

[The Lukewarm]

whoops! :redface:

[Gladys]

...could the answer be in the scar Winston saw in her forehead, after they were released by the miniluv?

Maybe her greatest fear was related to somehow losing her beauty or youth, taking into consideration her narcissism...

I stumbled on this:



She began to enlarge upon the subject. With Julia, everything came back to her own sexuality. As soon as this was touched upon in any way she was capable of great acuteness. ...The way she put it was:

'When you make love you're using up energy; and afterwards you feel happy and don't give a damn for anything. They can't bear you to feel like that.

If 'everything came back to her own sexuality', facial disfigurement would have been soul destroying for Julia - her greatest fear.

[chrissy613]

Then why wait seven years!!

I think the same reason the feds watched the Italians in "Donny Brasco" (lol). I think to possibly gather more information on other indivduals, if any guilty of thoughtcrime. Watching someone for several years allows you to figure out, (if possible) what a person and how a person thinks. Doesn't Winston say the only thing you have to yourself are your thoughts? Realistically people have patterns in their everyday lives and can easily be figured out. What makes the person tick, what fears they have, what they enjoy, ect. ect. can surely be displayed in everyday events. I'm babling on as of now, but I think you find out much about a person when watching them close enough, especially nowadays when everyone so freely discloses information on Twitter or Facebook. Not much investigation is required for the government to know every detail. You give it up freely!:p:nonod:

[EmeraldFire512]

Nope, I'm certain she wasn't.

Even had she gotten pregnant, the Party would have aborted the foetus.


.

I feel the need to disagree. In the beginning of the book, when Winston was describing the Jr Anti-Sex league and his marriage ot Katherine, he said that pregnancies were expected of the women in the Party. So no, I do not believe they would have aborted it. Besides, I highly doubt it was Winston's child. The book was hinting that they had been there for many months, so he probably would have been able to tell, and if she went through something similar to what Winston went through, there is no way that a fetus could survive it.

As for the rape thing, I do not believe that it was her greatest fear, but there is no saying that it did not happen. But what I think is more likely is that she was taught it, in the way Winston was retaught "2x2=5". SHe would have trained her that it was her duty to procreate, and probably would have done something like that, having her have sex with a party member every week over time until she stopped resisting or she was pregnant. It would have been the way to "break" her, as her promiscuity was her form of rebellion. So by getting her pregnant, either by intercourse or insemination, and telling her that it was her duty to the party, they would have been fixing her in the same way they fixed Winston's memory. So yes, I think she is pregnant. I also think that it would be a timestamp on her life. After the baby is born and taken away to be raised by the party, she has outlived her usefulness.

[The Atheist]

I feel the need to disagree. In the beginning of the book, when Winston was describing the Jr Anti-Sex league and his marriage ot Katherine, he said that pregnancies were expected of the women in the Party.

Only in couples whose marriage had been approved by the Party.


So no, I do not believe they would have aborted it. Besides, I highly doubt it was Winston's child. The book was hinting that they had been there for many months, so he probably would have been able to tell, and if she went through something similar to what Winston went through, there is no way that a fetus could survive it.

You might be surprised at how resilient foetuses are. A mother is more likely to die first from trauma than the foetus.


As for the rape thing, I do not believe that it was her greatest fear, but there is no saying that it did not happen. But what I think is more likely is that she was taught it, in the way Winston was retaught "2x2=5". SHe would have trained her that it was her duty to procreate, and probably would have done something like that, having her have sex with a party member every week over time until she stopped resisting or she was pregnant. It would have been the way to "break" her, as her promiscuity was her form of rebellion. So by getting her pregnant, either by intercourse or insemination, and telling her that it was her duty to the party, they would have been fixing her in the same way they fixed Winston's memory. So yes, I think she is pregnant. I also think that it would be a timestamp on her life. After the baby is born and taken away to be raised by the party, she has outlived her usefulness.

Interesting theory, but I see nothing to indicate the kind of irrational fear required by the Thought Police in a pregnancy.

Given Orwell's love of clarity, I just don't see a pregnancy as a possibility. If that's where he wanted the story to go, Orwell would have harangued us with the spectre - the imagery would have been too good to avoid that.

[Aljban2013]

A remake of 1984 me and my friends made

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bxyuN2LKD8

[DaphneFree]

Then why wait seven years!!

As I was reading Part III this same question occurred to me. So I began to think about Winston's question. "I understand the how but not the why?" O'Brian gives his answer and in doing so reveals the party goals of creating a perfect society as they see it. He speaks of tyranny, separating the bond between parents and children, eliminating orgasm and other forms of pleasure, Double think, Newspeak, etc. He never really gives a satisfactory answer to Winston's question but that is another discussion.

As a means to the Party goals Minilove is as much an institute of science and learning (from the inner party perspective) as it is a prison or an enforcement agency. O'Brian is a scientist who's goal is working toward the party goals. Winston is simply a case study, seven years before he was chosen to be in room 101. O'Brian may not have known that he would meet Julia and so forth. He could been chosen for his past experience as a child loosing his mother and sister. Or any number of reasons. There are any number of crimes he and Julia committed that could have gotten them arrested. O'Brian simply was waiting and watching and gathering information.

[Gladys]

Winston is simply a case study, seven years before he was chosen to be in room 101 ... He could been chosen for his past experience as a child loosing his mother and sister.

Winston chosen as a case study?

I prefer to think that he was chosen seven years earlier following routine security assessments by the Inner Party: assessments of the sort we hear of today in the West as part of the war on terror. But I don't disagree with the scientist aspect.

[DaphneFree]

Winston chosen as a case study?

I prefer to think that he was chosen seven years earlier following routine security assessments by the Inner Party: assessments of the sought we hear of today in the West as part of the war on terror. But I don't disagree with the scientist aspect.

That makes perfect sense. I guess I should have said that he became a case study. After the party had deemed him dangerous.

[Gladys]

I guess I should have said that he became a case study. After the party had deemed him dangerous.

Became a case study?

I suspect Winston and Julia are treated the same as any other dissenter. And perhaps all dissenters are of scientific interest to the Inner Party.

[DaphneFree]

Became a case study?

I suspect Winston and Julia are treated the same as any other dissenter. And perhaps all dissenters are of scientific interest to the Inner Party.

Perhaps case study is the wrong choice of words. Test Subject I suppose is a better description. I got the feeling he was being manipulated subtly in part one. During the two minutes hate. The thought was solidified for me when O'Brien produced the photograph of the dissenters in NY during his reprogramming.

Of course I am not sure if any of this is correct. It is just what I was feeling as I read it.

[student101]

In my opinion i feel as if Winston and Julia's relationship started out as a way to rebel.
As shown in the book Julia rebels in many small but significant ways. As said "Julia rebels from the waist down." Also Winston rebels in many ways as well. For instance writing in the Journal. I think that at the beginnig it started out that way but i think that over the time of their mettings they started having feelings for eachother. Although i feel as if Winston has more feeling for Julia then Julia has for Winston. For example when Winston had his nightmare that reminded him of when his mom and sister vannished she showed no interest and fell back asleep. But this is just my view on things.

:skep:

[Gladys]

I got the feeling he was being manipulated subtly in part one. During the two minutes hate.

Isn't manipulation of the Outer Party the prime purpose of the two minutes hate sessions?


Although i feel as if Winston has more feeling for Julia then Julia has for Winston. For example when Winston had his nightmare that reminded him of when his mom and sister varnished she showed no interest and fell back asleep.

Winston has more feeling than Julia because he is old enough to remember life before Oceania and its propaganda machine.

[DaphneFree]

Isn't manipulation of the Outer Party the prime purpose of the two minutes hate sessions?

Yes absolutely, I was revering to Winston and O'brian's unspoken communication..


Winston has more feeling than Julia because he is old enough to remember life before Oceania and its propaganda machine.

I very much agree with this. Julia shows the effects of the emotional and social isolation the party is trying to inflict. She does have somewhat of an indifference or so it seems to Winston's turmoil. I believe that is very much part of having known only party doctrine for all of her life.

[Volya]

(Not sure whether or not I should've made a new thread, so I'm replying to this one to be safe ;) )

In regards to Julia, I never really saw her as someone who actually cared what Big Brother did. I always saw her as a quiet immature, stupid sex-addict (to put it bluntly) and the only reason she opposed Big Brother was because it took away the fun in life.
I thought this was highlighted when she falls asleep while Winston reads the book by E.Goldstein and also she never really seems to care when Winston talks about the Party (for example when he comments on the sudden change in hatred from Eurasia to Eastasia (or is it the other way round?))

Also I was never really convinced that she loved Winston, and can you even be certain that she did? A more wild theory to go along with that would be that she was one of the Thought Police all along, because as far as I can recall Winston never finds out what happens to her after he gets captured (do correct me if I'm wrong). :idea:

[forchina]

................

[Hassohappa]

Then why wait seven years!!

I just finished the book and my thoughts are that they waited seven years to arrest him because they had to wait for him to form an attachment they could force him to betray. Without Julia there would not have been another person for Winston to throw under the bus. I think this is backed up by the emaciated guy that begs not to be sent back to room 101. It sounds terrible to us that he was begging for them to take his wife and children instead, but in the 1984 society your wife and children are not the people you love.

[Gladys]

Without Julia there would not have been another person for Winston to throw under the bus.

Most insightful. I had overlooked the need for a Julia to break the resilient spirit of Winston. Seven years is worth the wait.

Seven years until Winston, mentally he was joining in with the cheering crowds, could offer an honest testimonial to the party as his eyes fill with tears of joy and reconciliation.

Savage!

[1984 and Chill]

Okay, so towards the very end of the book, Winston tells us about how he goes to meet up with Julia after they have both been released from the torture of Big Brother. I understand that they both admit to betraying one another for their personal safety, and that they both agreed that there was no feeling of love or lust between them anymore. But if O'Brien went through all of this trouble to get Winston to betray Julia, why is he letting Winston go to see her? I thought that Winston would be under the surveillance of Big Brother until his death. So i guess my question is why did O'Brien let Winston get away with going to see Julia after all of the work to burn his fancy with her out of his mind?

[Gladys]

But if O'Brien went through all of this trouble to get Winston to betray Julia, why is he letting Winston go to see her? I thought that Winston would be under the surveillance of Big Brother until his death. So i guess my question is why did O'Brien let Winston get away with going to see Julia after all of the work to burn his fancy with her out of his mind?

Why? The meeting between Winston and Julia is overt testimony to the demoralization that O'Brien worked for so long. Their new-found indifference to each other broadcasts the victory of O'Brien and Big Brother for all to see.

[1509]

Okay, so towards the very end of the book, Winston tells us about how he goes to meet up with Julia after they have both been released from the torture of Big Brother. I understand that they both admit to betraying one another for their personal safety, and that they both agreed that there was no feeling of love or lust between them anymore. But if O'Brien went through all of this trouble to get Winston to betray Julia, why is he letting Winston go to see her? I thought that Winston would be under the surveillance of Big Brother until his death. So i guess my question is why did O'Brien let Winston get away with going to see Julia after all of the work to burn his fancy with her out of his mind?

I agree with what Gladys said, that their meeting just proved that O'Brien had succeeded in separating Julia and Winston. They showed no emotion towards each other during their meeting so the party does not care to do anything about it. They are no longer worried about them being rebellious together since they have both been destroyed of emotion inside the ministry of love

[maddie31here]

In the beginning Julia followed Winston around like a puppy dog. However Winston was unsure of her intentions. He suspected her as being part of the thought police. I can't say that I would risk even talking to Julia in fear of her turning me in. Being in a relationship together was also somewhat foolish. Who knows who might have seen them together and reported them.

[what-a-day]

In your opinion, were winston and julia foolish for getting involved with one another? If you were Winston or Julia, would it have been worth it to you to have what they had, even though it will probably end in death for them?
I don't think that Winston and Julia were foolish because they knew what they were getting themselves into. They knew from the very start because even Winston thought Julia was the thought police. they knew they had to sneak around and they knew It was a matter of time before they got caught. they were surprised at the end because I think they thought the room above the shop was a safe place.

[baby_star23]

In a way i wonder if their relationship will be much like future relationships were betraying eachother means nothing. I would imagine many peoplr already feel this way.

[bonkers]

In my opinion, it was undoubtedly foolish of Winston and Julia to get involved with one another. With a government like theirs, where you're watched 24/7 and with so many secret Thought-Police, it was almost inevitable for them to get caught. Although, in the long run I believe it would have been worth it to have what they had. In a world where showing emotion and loving is prohibited, simply knowing that you once had the chance to care for and love someone, even for a short time, must be something to live for.

[awesomeAA]

There is no doubt that Winston and Julia were foolish for getting involved with each other but in reality what did they have to loose? For Winston he knew he would be vaporized either way. Julia on the other hand portrayed herself as rule following young member of the party. In reality she used her body and her sexual acts as a rebellion and a political act to make statements of sly rebellion. It seems like Julia would do mostly anything to rebel against Big Brother. Her hatred for the party most definitely sparked her encounters with Winston. As their relationship continues it is apparent that Winston deeply cares for Julia while she is somewhat dismissive towards him. They both knew how corrupt the Party and Big Brother was and how most people just disappear without any questions asked. They had nothing to loose.

[queenbee]

It’s weird how at first Winston is concerned about Julia because he thinks she is a member of the thought police. Then they become friends. And they end up both getting caught by the thought police