Theodoer Dreiser, Sister Carrie - who is she and what does she want?!

[lyndsey87]

Iv recently read Sister Carrie and was intrigued by the amount of different personalities she seems to have! there is no section dedicated to Dreiser but i loved the novel and wondered about others opinions of it. The novel is so rich and there are so many ups and downs and Carrie seems to change with each one - theres "sister" carrie who lives with her sister Minnie, Carrie Meeber when shes with Drouet, actress Carrie who adores the limelights, Carrie Whistler when she runs off with Hurstwood... theres just so many! I think she typifies the materialistic world we live in today, always after the next thing, the grass is always greener etc.I know i definetly identified with her, even though there are parts of her that i found distastful. I would love to hear others views!

[Sebas. Melmoth]

I hope you read the unexpurgated original (restored) version.
http://www.amazon.com/Sister-Penguin-Classics-Theodore-Dreiser/dp/0140188282/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280159662&sr=1-1

Sister Carrie is one of my personal all-time favourite novels.

We are shown types of human characters: Drouet, Hurstwood, Hurstwood's wife, Carrie, Mrs. Vance and her brother Ames.

But basically the story is about Hurstwood's downfall.

Carrie herself is just a natural woman: normal, healthy in body and mind, struggling for survival in the harsh world.
Drouet wants her, woos her, and she becomes his lover.
Drouet is a natural man though rather shallow: he won't commit himself to marry Carrie, and that's the crux of her problem.

Some have criticized Dreiser's prose, but I find it very readable and like it very well.

[Emil Miller]

Iv recently read Sister Carrie and was intrigued by the amount of different personalities she seems to have! there is no section dedicated to Dreiser but i loved the novel and wondered about others opinions of it. The novel is so rich and there are so many ups and downs and Carrie seems to change with each one - theres "sister" carrie who lives with her sister Minnie, Carrie Meeber when shes with Drouet, actress Carrie who adores the limelights, Carrie Whistler when she runs off with Hurstwood... theres just so many! I think she typifies the materialistic world we live in today, always after the next thing, the grass is always greener etc.I know i definetly identified with her, even though there are parts of her that i found distastful. I would love to hear others views!

I think Sister Carrie is even better than Dreiser's An American Tragedy which also shows how a person's character changes when they seek to rise in society. Like most, if not all, of Dreiser's novels, Sister Carrie is a critique of the changes that he saw taking place in the US as it started to become wealthy. If you haven't seen it already, I'm sure you would enjoy 'Carrie' the title of the filmed adaptation of the novel. Directed by the great William Wyler and starring Jenifer Jones and Laurence Olivier, it is a brilliant realisation of the novel. I have seen Olivier in a number of films, including his famed Shakespearean roles, but his playing of George Hurstwood beats them all; he is George Hurstwood, and Jenifer Jones is simply wonderful.
The picture below shows Carrie at the beginning of the film when she has just said goodbye to her little sister and is leaving for Chicago and all that follows.


http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/brianbean/scan0024-2.jpg

[dfloyd]

I didn't know it was adapted to film. I'll try to find it. I enjoyed reading Sister Carrie as well as An American Tragedy. I read both many years ago so I wouldn't hazard an opinion about which was the better work.

[dfloyd]

After going down the list of fims titled Carrie, most of which were the Stephen King novel, I found the Dresier Carrie in both VHS and dvd so I will be watching it soon. I know that Jennifer Jones made some outstanding films.
I remember lying about my age to get into a viewing of A Duel in the Sun, which was purported to have some torrid love scenes between Gregory Peck and Jeniffer Jones. Joseph Cotton was in that movie as well as a Portrait of Jennie with Jones. It doesn't seem possible that most of these actors and actresses are now dead.

[_Shannon_]

Sister Carrie is one of my favorite books, ever. Didn't know there was a film---thanks!

Dreiser is in that list of authors who were really important to a lot of the contemporary favs, but is no longer widely read. Sherwood Anderson, Ford Maddox Ford, John Dos Passos, and Thomas Wolfe are all from that same general time period too, and also on that list. I love all those guys! Sister Carrie, to me, is one of the greatest least read books. It's definitely my favorite Dreiser novel.

[Emil Miller]

After going down the list of fims titled Carrie, most of which were the Stephen King novel, I found the Dresier Carrie in both VHS and dvd so I will be watching it soon. I know that Jennifer Jones made some outstanding films.
I remember lying about my age to get into a viewing of A Duel in the Sun, which was purported to have some torrid love scenes between Gregory Peck and Jeniffer Jones. Joseph Cotton was in that movie as well as a Portrait of Jennie with Jones. It doesn't seem possible that most of these actors and actresses are now dead.

I didn't see Carrie when it came out, as I would have been too young to appreciate it, but I saw it years later at the National Film Theatre in London which specialises in old films. I later recorded it on VHS from a television showing. I was bowled over by Jenifer Jones beauty and acting and wasn't surprised when I read that David O. Selznick, the producer of Duel in the Sun, who had married Jones, put her in the film. It received a lot of adverse criticism for it's eroticism and was often jokingly referred to as Lust in the Dust but it made big box office. Yes, they are dead and will never be replaced by anyone of similar ability. The cinema has long since ceased to be entertainment for adults and now belongs to the kids; and for what it is worth, they are welcome to it.

[country doctor]

the doc picked up both 'sister carrie' and 'an american tragedy' this summer at the book sale...he's been debating about what to grab next and was leaning to 'the idiot', but one of these two need to be picked up soon...maybe it'll be 'sister carrie' due to the good reviews here...

[Emil Miller]

the doc picked up both 'sister carrie' and 'an american tragedy' this summer at the book sale...he's been debating about what to grab next and was leaning to 'the idiot', but one of these two need to be picked up soon...maybe it'll be 'sister carrie' due to the good reviews here...

If you were thinking of The Idiot, then Sister Carrie will be a breeze. The philosophical angle is there but incidental to the story, not central to it as in The Idiot.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

While Carrie is the honeypot round which all the flys buzz, ultimately the study of Hurstwood is the focus of the novel: an almost scientific study of the middle-aged man in Western society.

Of course the phenomenon of 'middle age crisis' has become virtually passé since the '70s film Middle Age Crazy with Bruce Dern and Ann Margret. (Doesn't appear to be on DVD...)
http://www.amazon.com/Middle-Age-Crazy-Bruce-Dern/dp/6301331389/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1280179438&sr=1-1

**SPOILER ALERT**

=======================================

But Dreiser's study of Hurstwood is more like 'middle age stupid', as he ruins his own life for a taste of sweet young Carrie; proceeding then as he further ages to make mistake after mistake (incipient Alzheimers?) leading unto poverty, destitution, and suicide.

Really it's a terrifying study of alienation and decay (moral, mental, physical).

Although I must say, Hurstwood is a much more sympathetic character than Clyde in An American Tragedy, who commits an horrifically brutal crime against an innocent person.

Incidentially, the main characters of The Financier and The Genius are both marginally modeled on Frank Lloyd Wright.
http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Lloyd-Wright-Burns-Novick/dp/B000BITUH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1280180232&sr=1-1

[Emil Miller]

I wouldn't describe Hurstwood as being stupid exactly, he was violently in love with Carrie to the point where he would sacrifice everything for her. It wasn't just a case of a middle-aged man's head being turned by a pretty face. His life until the moment she entered it had been a sham despite the money and comfort it had bought him. His wife, brilliantly played in the film by Miriam Hopkins, was vindictive and spiteful, the exact opposite of Carrie. In that situation, many a man would have done as Hurstwood did.
Either way, Sister Carrie is a great naturalist novel and ranks with those of Emil Zola and Frank Norris.

[dfloyd]

A Place in the Sun (An American Tragedy), Clyde didn't actually kill her. After she fell into the water, he just didn't do anything to save her. Shelley
Winters' role was so unsympathetic that, when I saw the movie, people were yelling in the theatre, "Hit her with an oar!"

[Sebas. Melmoth]

Uh--you guys are talkin' film; I'm talkin' book.

In the novel Sister Carrie, Hurstwood had been well pleased with his wife until relatively recently in the story's chronology.
Dreiser makes it quite plain that Hurstwood and his wife had enjoyed a vigorous sexual relationship, and that she had been no prude.
In the present, after about 20 years of marriage, his desire for her had cooled; whereas, as Dreiser indicates, she was still willing indeed moderately eager for Hurstwood's sexual attentions.
His withdrawl from her and his pursuit of Carrie outraged Mrs. Hurstwood so much that her desire turned from love to hate: this is a well-known phenomenon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In An American Tragedy, the murder of Roberta (and the unborn child she was carrying) was premeditated, planned, and executed by Clyde with aforethought.
The deed was actually accomplished by Clyde striking Roberta in the face with a Kodak camera, knocking her into the water.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Sebas. Melmoth;929097]Uh--you guys are talkin' film; I'm talkin' book.

In the novel Sister Carrie, Hurstwood had been well pleased with his wife until relatively recently in the story's chronology.
Dreiser makes it quite plain that Hurstwood and his wife had enjoyed a vigorous sexual relationship, and that she had been no prude.
In the present, after about 20 years of marriage, his desire for her had cooled; whereas, as Dreiser indicates, she was still willing indeed moderately eager for Hurstwood's sexual attentions.
His withdrawl from her and his pursuit of Carrie outraged Mrs. Hurstwood so much that her desire turned from love to hate: this is a well-known phenomenon./QUOTE]

You are of course correct in your description of Mrs Hurstwood's attitude but it was this domineering aspect of her character that stood in stark contrast to the meek and gentle nature of Carrie. This contrast is very marked in the film version where Jenifer Jones epitomises the country girl adrift in the city.

[Sebas. Melmoth]

the country girl adrift in the city.

Rather it may be that Dreiser's concern is something more akin to 'the person adrift in the world'.

Suggest this universality is what makes Sister Carrie such a great work of art.

[country doctor]

If you were thinking of The Idiot, then Sister Carrie will be a breeze. The philosophical angle is there but incidental to the story, not central to it as in The Idiot.

it's a tough choice, both need to be read...the doc picked up 'the idiot' this spring and was supposed to be reading it already, but put it off for awhile...now that he's got his hands on these dreiser books he'd like to give them a read too...

either or, he'll get at both of them probably before labor day...

[Emil Miller]

it's a tough choice, both need to be read...the doc picked up 'the idiot' this spring and was supposed to be reading it already, but put it off for awhile...now that he's got his hands on these dreiser books he'd like to give them a read too...

either or, he'll get at both of them probably before labor day...

Well I'm not a particular fan of Dostoyevsky myself and so it would be no contest for me but if you have to read The Idiot as part of a study course, why not do so and read Sister Carrie later? The main thing is to read it at some time or other in view of Dreiser's important contribution to American literature.

[country doctor]

well mr. bean, the doc is a big fan of mr. D...he picked up both 'war and peace' and 'the idiot' this spring on the assumption that he'd read both this summer...'war and peace' was finished about a month ago, so it was time for the next...but that was before he picked up the two dreiser books...now with the nice reviews, he is gonna give 'sister carrie' the nod...

might even put 'the idiot' on the sidelines till next summer...the doc has a summer residence and another for the three other seasons of the year, so that is why if he doesn't get to this real soon it just might wait...

anyways, he's thinking of 'the gambler' first...

read the intro to 'sister carrie' this morning...will probably crack the opening pages tonite...

[dfloyd]

If you don't quit referring to yourself in the third person, I'm going to think that you are the fiction here.

[country doctor]

well the doc is up to the big nite in the theatre for carrie...nice easy read, but the doc's been busy with summer and all and just had to finish up a book on jm barrie and his weird antics so haven't got all that far into the book...as an aside, here's that neverland book that the doc just finished...

http://www.amazon.com/Neverland-Barrie-Mauriers-Dark-Peter/dp/1605980633

[country doctor]

While Carrie is the honeypot round which all the flys buzz, ultimately the study of Hurstwood is the focus of the novel: an almost scientific study of the middle-aged man in Western society.

Of course the phenomenon of 'middle age crisis' has become virtually passé since the '70s film Middle Age Crazy with Bruce Dern and Ann Margret. (Doesn't appear to be on DVD...)
http://www.amazon.com/Middle-Age-Crazy-Bruce-Dern/dp/6301331389/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1280179438&sr=1-1

**SPOILER ALERT**

=======================================

But Dreiser's study of Hurstwood is more like 'middle age stupid', as he ruins his own life for a taste of sweet young Carrie; proceeding then as he further ages to make mistake after mistake (incipient Alzheimers?) leading unto poverty, destitution, and suicide.

Really it's a terrifying study of alienation and decay (moral, mental, physical).

Although I must say, Hurstwood is a much more sympathetic character than Clyde in An American Tragedy, who commits an horrifically brutal crime against an innocent person.

Incidentially, the main characters of The Financier and The Genius are both marginally modeled on Frank Lloyd Wright.
http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Lloyd-Wright-Burns-Novick/dp/B000BITUH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1280180232&sr=1-1

the doc hasn't read 'american tragedy' yet and wishes that he hadn't found read the 'spoiler alert' about what happens...but he does agree with the true power of the book being on the 'hurstwood' character...

the fall from middle class respectability is something that is happening even in today's society...but today it might be because of the corporate downsizing taking place...some folks have a harder time than others in adjusting...for most all who this has happened to, it is a difficult transition...

carrie's 'luck' is believable and heartwarming, but the power of the novel is in hurstwood's fall...a good read...now that the doc has seen the spoiler, he'll probably wait a good long time to pick up dreiser's other book...maybe he'll forget this thread and post by then...