e-book or paper book?

[alexM]

I'd like to learn your opinion on one question.

what do you think about e-books? I've found some sites where visitors can read books online and don't need to download them in internet. Are paper-books leaving in the past?

[LadyW]

Personally, I prefer paper books.
I think sitting at my computer reading reams of webpages is so monotonous...
I'd much rather sit comfortabley with a nice hardback/paperback.

[Lote-Tree]

I'd like to learn your opinion on one question.

what do you think about e-books? I've found some sites where visitors can read books online and don't need to download them in internet. Are paper-books leaving in the past?

Can't read E-books.

Being a programmer it does not suit me at all !!

[bouquin]

The smell of a new book is one of my favorite things. I love the act of turning the pages. I'm a bookstore and library fiend. Long live paper books!!

[knightss]

I recently received a Sony Ebook Reader. It's a little pricey but pretty cool. The screen resembles paper, it's can hold pictures, mp3's, .pdf, .txt., .doc, etc. The best thing about it is that it can store over 1,000 books (i bought the 4 gig memory card). With all the public domain literature online, i'll probably end up saving money.
Now.. if you asked me which i prefer, Book vs. Ebook Reader... i'd probably still go with book.. there's something unique.. or maybe traditional about holding a book in your hand and flipping the page.
It's like Cork vs. Screw Top on a wine bottle lol =)

[Aiculík]

There are books which I'd prefer as e-books, like encyclopaedias or dictionaries - especially if it would be possible to update it for free...

But in most cases, I prefer paper books.

It's more personal, more intimate. I can carry it with me anywhere, to the mountains or to sea and the only energy I have to care about is my own. I can immediately draw smilies and write comments, underline and highligt...

Besides, I like different covers and font styles of books, I wouldn't like it if all of them were the same. Especially cover is quite important for me, a kind of art as well...

And I love the smell of the book - the fresh smell of the new book and the dusty smell of book from the second-hand bookstore (I mean the bookstores with really old books, e.g. from the beginning of the 20th century or even older).

[PeterL]

E-books are handy for a short read, but it isn't easy or comfortable to curl up with and e-book.

[Nossa]

I love paper books more, but sometimes I 'have' to download ebooks or read online, cuz I can't find certain books, or they're too expensive to buy. But if I have to choose, I'd def. go with paper books. They NEVER get old if you ask me.

[Kafka's Crow]

I love books and I love buying and collecting books but I prefer reading on my iRex iLiad, the Daddy of all ereaders. Within some months I have collected over 900 classics for free. It is easier on the eye as you can control the font size and the reading experience is more comfortable and engaging. I try not to read on my laptop screen because of the glare. Pocket Pcs are good for reading, specially with Mobipocket Reader for PPC. A cheap PPC like Casio's Cassiopeia can get you access to thousands of classics.:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32346

[johann cruyff]

Paper edition,definitely.I just love the feel of a book in my hands,not to mention that it's more practical.

[amalia1985]

There's nothing like a paper book, in my opinion. I love sorting them out, writing the dates, the name, and so on. Still, there have been certain occassions when I have searched practically EVERYWHERE, being unable to find THAT book. In those cases, e-books were trully useful to me, but only in four- fives times. I believe that nothing will ever substitute paper books.

[alexM]

I agree with your arguments, and I think paper books won't die. But if a book is expansive or it isn't easy to find its I prefer to read online. It saves my time and money.

[Dori]

I almost exclusively read real books. If I ever get enough money, I would love to buy one of those e-book readers (iLiad, Kindle, etc.).

[LadyWentworth]

I agree that in certain situations the e-book is very handy, but I much prefer a regular paper book. I get a cramp in my neck if I am sitting in front of the computer too long, anyway. So, imagine what would happen if I chose to actually sit down and read a book on the computer!! :(

[Tersely]

Paper for me all the way. : )

[alexM]

Thanks a lot. I'm glad to know that the paper books are popular. I deside to read a book in a comfartable chair.

[amalia1985]

Yes, in front of the fireplace, or sitting by the window, listening to the rain outside...We cannot do that with e-books...

[_JadeRain_]

paper books

[Dori]

Yes, in front of the fireplace, or sitting by the window, listening to the rain outside...We cannot do that with e-books...

Sure you can. You just have to shell out $300+ on one of those new ebook readers (iLiad, Kindle, etc.). ;)

[robert1325]

Thought I'd chime in as well, I've been the owner of a cybook ereader for 3 months now and can't really say which I prefer.

I still read both and it entirely depends on the book, where I read etc. , for reading in bed on your side the ereader is better (no clumsy turning of pages and cramps in your arms etc.) For reading on the beach, digital is probably not such a great idea. Having said that,the added benefit of having a digital oxford dictionary without carrying the weight also counts.

So , in my opinion it's not really the one or the other, both are great.

[bazarov]

Paper books, no way I will ever read e-books. Once I printed 200 pages instead of watching in screen for hours.

[amalia1985]

Sure you can. You just have to shell out $300+ on one of those new ebook readers (iLiad, Kindle, etc.). ;)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kafka's Crow]

As far as eInk is concerned, seeing is believing. I can't wait till summer, this summer will be the summer of reading in garden. No need to carry loads of books on my holidays either. I stopped doing that a couple of years earlier when I started reading on my Pocket PC. I would rather carry a thousand books on my ereader than drag a few paperback around. It is like the Abbasid caliph of Baghdad (I think it was Haroun ul Raschid), he never traveled without his whole library. But he needed hundreds of camels and an army of librarians to make possible that instant access to knowledge, anywhere any time. My iLiad sorts the books and I can search any title out of my hundreds of books within seconds. Each to his own. These readers are well over-priced but that's what happens with emerging technologies. My 4 GB iPod cost me £280 in 2001. Now you can buy the top of the range machine for that money. Epaper is expensive but within some years its price will come down and many would change their mind about it like they did about the iPod.

[Takeahnase]

I prefer paper books. The feel, the smell... physically turning the pages as you read. That said, I do see the practicality of having one of these e-book readers. It would save me lugging a bag full of books on holiday with me when I can't decide on just one to read. I'd still much prefer a traditional book though, given the choice.

I'm not a fan at all of reading e-books online. My eyes just can't stand the strain of looking at the screen for so long and so I tend not to bother. It's nice to be able to go along to the park or to curl up in bed with a book rather than being chained to the computer. Although, they're incredibly useful when I'm unable to find what I want in my local library, or want to re-read a certain section without having to buy/borrow the book again. I've read a couple of short stories on the internet, e.g. Animal Farm a chapter at a time inbetween waiting for my stubborn computer to load up fully, which has saved me from having to go and dig them out/find them. So they're useful to me in that respect.

I think the growing accessibility of books as new gadgets come onto the market is a great thing. I think the traditional paper printed books will always be most people's preferred choice, but the ability to store scores of texts onto a palm-sized device has a lot of practical benefits that might encourage more people to read. I'll probably buy an e-reader in the distant future when they're dirt cheap, but nothing will really beat having the real thing in my hands.

[JustinColorado]

well when someone gets a leather bound book that contains maybe 10 pages that i can turn thru then start over as i read from a memory card of say 1,000 titles ... that would be cool

so, mimic the experience of paper but with a vast access to titles and content.. that will be cool and a product!

[capek]

I hate reading ebooks, except for learning tools. But for fiction/non-fiction/etc I have to have a physical book in my hand.

[tlnmember1]

-----

Ya'll should know that reading paper books is written into the Law of the Universe already...it's just natural, like gravity. But if I can get my elderly mother one of those Sony things and a million books, she'll be the happiest person in the world. And I'm working on downloading my first eBook on my new Blackberry phone, for reading when I'm stuck someplace with nothing to do. :yawnb:

What I don't like is the new rubber binding on paperbacks, that doesn't let the page lay flat in your hands. I just don't have enough muscle any more to keep those pages from closing all the time. It's just plain awful.

-----

[EricP]

I have an Amazon Kindle and I love it! Now I can carry a library of hundreds of books around with me everywhere I go. I used to spend way too much money on books, but now I download most of my books for free, or at least well below the cost of the paper copy. The only thing that I hate about the Kindle is the lack of page numbers..."location numbers" aren't the same as good ol' page numbers!

[Seabird111]

Paper. I started to read Crime and Punishment. I got a headache :D.

[Trystan]

Paper books . . . I get a headache if I read too much from the screen. Damn, I hope those ebook reader things won't put paper books out of business eventually.

[Nyu001]

I prefer paper book. To be reading from the screen of my monitor will end bothering my eyes after a while. And I can't print them that would be thousands of pages that mean lots of money in black ink!

[Vincent Black]

If I can't find a paper book, but can find it as an ebook I'll print it out to read, but no way in hell will I read it on the screen!

[Kafka's Crow]

Paper books feel bulky and cumbersme. I love reading on my iLiad. The convenience is unbelievable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxUnY9eD4xM&feature=related

[Hank Stamper]

I can't see what the appeal is myself. One of the best thing about books is the books themselves. The smell, the way they feel, the fact you can flick to any page you want without fannying around with a menu and a pen, the fact you can read them at the beach without worrying about the sand, the fact you can read them in the bath, the fact you can have more than one book open at once... I can't think of any way in which an e-book is superior to a paper book, other than in terms of storage

you don't need batteries to read normal books either

[sofia82]

I prefer paper books, feeling the paper, the smell of the book, even reading the book while i lie down in the bed, but with ebook on computer it is not possible, it is good for short texts.

[kelby_lake]

I like paper books for fiction- however e-books would be okay for non-fiction as you can skim more easily. the point of books is to show that there is a world away from computers and tv- it's like mcdonalds making their salads.

it would give me a headache reading off a screen and also paper books can withstand a little wear and tear- if you wore and tore your pocket computer thingy, it wouldn't like that much

[cipherdecoy]

Definitely paper books. E-books are too much of a strain on the eyes and paper books come in more handy.

[bounty]

The smell of a new book is one of my favorite things. I love the act of turning the pages. I'm a bookstore and library fiend. Long live paper books!!

and by contrast, i like the smell of an old book....smiles....

[JBI]

Heh, I don't need to talk about smells to justify my reading a real book. Seriously, the smell is the least important thing. The most important thing is the margins, and the fact that you can write all over them in different colors, highlight certain passages, and make edits, change words, etc. You don't get that feel with an e-book, even if you get the expensive one that lets you write on the screen with the plastic pointer.

Really when it comes down to it, I have two types of reading,

my casual reading,
and my serious reading.

Casual reading involves looking at a text once, and flipping through it. Usually bulky novels go in here, especially if they are not major novels.

Group 2 is reading with a pencil in hand, and usually involves a lot of supplementary reading to go with the text in the form of criticism, and historical backgrounding.

For group 1, I see no problem with using an e-book, though I am not about to buy one now, seeing as all of the books in that category come from the library. With group B though, no one would I be caught dead with an E-Reader. Not only is it more difficult to read, being that I can't lean on the book, but it also doesn't allow the convenient feature of the pencil, and the highlighter.

[Kafka's Crow]

Heh, I don't need to talk about smells to justify my reading a real book. Seriously, the smell is the least important thing. The most important thing is the margins, and the fact that you can write all over them in different colors, highlight certain passages, and make edits, change words, etc. You don't get that feel with an e-book, even if you get the expensive one that lets you write on the screen with the plastic pointer.

Really when it comes down to it, I have two types of reading,

my casual reading,
and my serious reading.

Casual reading involves looking at a text once, and flipping through it. Usually bulky novels go in here, especially if they are not major novels.

Group 2 is reading with a pencil in hand, and usually involves a lot of supplementary reading to go with the text in the form of criticism, and historical backgrounding.

For group 1, I see no problem with using an e-book, though I am not about to buy one now, seeing as all of the books in that category come from the library. With group B though, no one would I be caught dead with an E-Reader. Not only is it more difficult to read, being that I can't lean on the book, but it also doesn't allow the convenient feature of the pencil, and the highlighter.

You mean you want to do all this:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/Raz1/lolitablurb005.jpg

[JBI]

No, I mean with multi colors, and real handwriting. I am sure the texture doesn't feel good, and feels like writing on a palm pilot, and not paper, with friction, and the scratching of the pen.

[DapperDrake]

Sure we all like paper books but I think many of you are being unfair on eBooks. For example eBooks are actually more "comfortable" and practical, of course I'm refering to using eReaders rather than reading from a computer.

Reading in bed with an eBook is much more comfortable - why? because the eReader is less bulky and heavy than a book and importantly you're not turning pages.. you know how you have to hold the book up when you're reading one or the other page depending on which way you're lying.
Plus eBooks are practical! you can carry hundreds of books around with you in your jacket pocket - i'd like to see you try that with paper books. And someone mentioned likeing different fonts etc... well with an eBook you can choose the font and text size! even colour if your device supports colour. plus you don't need a bookcase for an eBook collection, good if you don't have much space.

eBooks are the way of the future, paper books will decline, in 10 years most of us will be reading eBooks and paper books will just be a nostalgic supplement.

[Hank Stamper]

Plus eBooks are practical! you can carry hundreds of books around with you in your jacket pocket - i'd like to see you try that with paper books.

and what is the actual point of that? would you ever really need 100 books in your jacket pocket?! you must be a fast reader ;)



eBooks are the way of the future, paper books will decline, in 10 years most of us will be reading eBooks and paper books will just be a nostalgic supplement.

maybe some people on here think that it is a good idea, but i should imagine the great majority of literature lovers would never swap books for ebooks

it is just a gimmick in my opinion

[EricP]

It doesn't really need to be an either/or argument. I do most of my reading on my Kindle, but I also buy paper books occasionally for various reasons. I just order Louis-Ferdinand Celine's "Journey to the End of the Night" because I couldn't find an ebook copy available.

To each his or her own! :)

[Kafka's Crow]

I buy paper books very regularly. Classics are free in ebook format any way. I prefer ebooks because of the sheer comfort of the ereader. You don't even have to hold the device, just place it in your lap or on your arm and reach out and gently push the flip-bar to change the page. Pocket PCs have auto scroll but I don't like reading on back-lit screens any more. I love literature and knowledge, regardless of its package, format or means of delivery. Electronic paper is a very new concept. Soon we will see flexible roll up epaper, Epson are working on the color version, Kindle gives you access to thousands of Amazon titles anywhere, any time. Sites like Feedbook.com deliver content for specific devices and their standard is very high indeed. I have direct access to the thousands of classics on Feedbooks.com classic using my iLiad on a WiFi connection. I remember how I saved money to buy the Penguin paperback edition of Gogol's Dead Souls during my student days. Now I don't have to worry about money as Dead Souls is available free on the internet. What excuse can one have for not reading?

[curlyqlink]

Reading books on a computer screen is just awful. But there are times I've been very glad the option is available. Online is the only place I could find Voltaire's mock-epic poem about Jeanne D'Arc. And there are times when I just want to have a quick look into something and don't want to make a trip to the library (and the library might not have it!)

Reading on a screen is such torture that I'm not inclined to invest in a dedicated electronic reader. It's not just the glare, I hate the scrolling. The codex replaced the written scroll for good reason! Being able to flip through a book to find a passage is something I will never voluntarily give up.

[amanda_isabel]

e-books are a good option, but I don't think I'd keep an e-book under my pillow anymore than I would put a set of encyclopedias in my jacket pocket :)

[slobone]

Ugh, are people actually reading e-books? I can't stand the idea. I spend enough time in front of a CRT as it is. The tactile sensation of holding an actual book in my hands is an important part of the pleasure I get from reading.

[DapperDrake]

and what is the actual point of that? would you ever really need 100 books in your jacket pocket?! you must be a fast reader ;)


Ever been on holiday and stuffed your suitcase with books? plus as I said, one eReader can contain a whole library without you having to give up your spare room (if you even have a spare room).



maybe some people on here think that it is a good idea, but i should imagine the great majority of literature lovers would never swap books for ebooks

it is just a gimmick in my opinion

It is a little gimmicky at the moment granted, though current eReaders shouldn't be underestimated, but you've got to think about the future... eReaders will become as cheap as a book, eReaders will become something you can comfortably fold away and put in your pocket like a sheet of paper, the battery life will be months, the storage capacity will be millions of books, you'll be able to buy or download new books on the fly (kindle is a forerunner)...

Yes paper books have their value and their charm but their mainstream days are numbered, perhaps you're right, perhaps the "great majority of literature lovers" won't want to give up paper books - but the up and coming generations won't have such qualms.

[Kafka's Crow]

Ugh, are people actually reading e-books? I can't stand the idea. I spend enough time in front of a CRT as it is. The tactile sensation of holding an actual book in my hands is an important part of the pleasure I get from reading.

You still use a 'crt'? I am amazed!

[Hank Stamper]

Ever been on holiday and stuffed your suitcase with books?

yes! but im still not convinced an e-reader is suitable for the beach or by the pool... or are they sand proof/waterproof? because lets face it, no matter how much care you take of your books, they always come back with sand in them or slightly damp

and what about glare off the screen in the sun?

sorry i am going to take some convincing on this!

[Kafka's Crow]

I have more than 2500 ebooks on my laptop (ran a search yesterday to get this figure) at the moment, most of them classics. I don't search the internet for literature any more. I needed a line from Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time this morning, just searched my hard drive, found the book (in MS Reader or .lit format) entered the search word 'rien', and bingo! Here I go again, this is what I was looking for:

"Ne craignez rien, madame, je ne suis pas plus dangereux que votre cavalier" . . .
Finding the book and the exact line took less than a minute. I just re-ran the search while composing this message and copied and pasted the above line! What can be quicker and more comfortable than this?

[sofia82]

Sure you can. You just have to shell out $300+ on one of those new ebook readers (iLiad, Kindle, etc.). ;)

I do not know if the feeling of reading a book with ebook readers is the same as paperbooks or not, those who have, is it the same?

[sofia82]

Yes, in front of the fireplace, or sitting by the window, listening to the rain outside...We cannot do that with e-books...

I prefer this one, sitting by the window, listening to the rain outside (at least if you can concentrate on your reading) and read a book, turn the pages ... not clicking or using a mouse.

[sofia82]

As far as eInk is concerned, seeing is believing. I can't wait till summer, this summer will be the summer of reading in garden. No need to carry loads of books on my holidays either. I stopped doing that a couple of years earlier when I started reading on my Pocket PC. I would rather carry a thousand books on my ereader than drag a few paperback around. It is like the Abbasid caliph of Baghdad (I think it was Haroun ul Raschid), he never traveled without his whole library. But he needed hundreds of camels and an army of librarians to make possible that instant access to knowledge, anywhere any time. My iLiad sorts the books and I can search any title out of my hundreds of books within seconds. Each to his own. These readers are well over-priced but that's what happens with emerging technologies. My 4 GB iPod cost me £280 in 2001. Now you can buy the top of the range machine for that money. Epaper is expensive but within some years its price will come down and many would change their mind about it like they did about the iPod.

Although i prefer paperbooks, during journies ebooks are the best options because fof what you said about Haroun ul Raschid, and about the heavy dictionaries and encyclopedias it is better that paperbooks, too. Yesterday, I borrowed a book which contains all of Shakespeare's plays it really makes me trouble bringing home as it is really heavy and now got problem in reading. The only way to read it is that I have to put it on the desk, cannot hold it up, cannot read while lie down in the bed, cannot put it on my knees while sitting. And about taking notes, we use different colors to highlight or write notes in the book, it is possible with the ebooks even better than paperbooks. If you have lots of things to write and there is no enugh space in your book, ebooks become the best option, as said before. All has its advantages and disadvantages.
One interesting thing, I have allergy to old books, the smell and the dust on them. What can I do that I like reading these books? :((

[Kafka's Crow]

yes! but im still not convinced an e-reader is suitable for the beach or by the pool... or are they sand proof/waterproof? because lets face it, no matter how much care you take of your books, they always come back with sand in them or slightly damp

and what about glare off the screen in the sun?

sorry i am going to take some convincing on this!

My Iliad looks very sturdy and the screen is specially designed to remove glare from the sun. It is not a shiny screen. Soon there'll be sand and waterproof covers available for these devices, till then I'll use cling film!

The number of ebook readers is growing faster and the prices of reading devices are also in a nosedive. Amazon slashed the price f the Kindle recently, Astak Mentor are about to launch a sub $200 ereader which should shake the market and drag the prices lower, iRex released a silver, no-frills, version of iLiad last month, it has no Wifi but it is significantly cheaper than the version that I use. Exciting things are going on in this area of technology:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78

[Hank Stamper]

I have more than 2500 ebooks on my laptop (ran a search yesterday to get this figure) at the moment, most of them classics. I don't search the internet for literature any more. I needed a line from Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time this morning, just searched my hard drive, found the book (in MS Reader or .lit format) entered the search word 'rien', and bingo! Here I go again, this is what I was looking for:

Finding the book and the exact line took less than a minute. I just re-ran the search while composing this message and copied and pasted the above line! What can be quicker and more comfortable than this?

so basically it is good for literature students... not sure how many casual readers need to look up a specific line of text... but I concede it would certainly be good for research/essay writing etc if the stuff you need to look up is available for download... however you can do searches on certain websites already (google books etc) so it is only really beneficial if you need to do this remotely/where you haven't got internet access

not convinced about taking it to the beach tho, even wrapped in clingfilm ;)

I'll stick to the paperbacks cheers :D

[Kafka's Crow]

so basically it is good for literature students... not sure how many casual readers need to look up a specific line of text... but I concede it would certainly be good for research/essay writing etc if the stuff you need to look up is available for download... however you can do searches on certain websites already (google books etc) so it is only really beneficial if you need to do this remotely/where you haven't got internet access

not convinced about taking it to the beach tho, even wrapped in clingfilm ;)

I'll stick to the paperbacks cheers :D

I heard similar words when I bought an iPod 7 years ago. They found all kinds of deficiencies in the product. Now everybody and his mum has got one! Rest assured I will be digging out these threads in a couple of years time :wave:

[bej6s]

While I love that this website offers older texts on the website, I sit at the computer enough while I'm at work. I definitely prefer paperbacks anyday! and so encouraged that so many other people do too.

[Agatha]

I prefer paper books definitely. Ebooks for me are good if i want to read something short, but I can't imagine read ebook of "War and peace" or "Middlemarch". Besides, I just like to put all my books on stacks and from time to time just glimpse at my collection :)

[Hank Stamper]

I heard similar words when I bought an iPod 7 years ago. They found all kinds of deficiencies in the product. Now everybody and his mum has got one! Rest assured I will be digging out these threads in a couple of years time :wave:

haha yeah... the iPod is totally different though. Having your music collection on the go is far more important than having 200 books on you. The iPod/MP3 players revolutionised the way people buy/listen to music, I can't see the e-reader will do the same. I'm no Luddite, I just don't see that the e-reader is anything other than a gimmick

[Kafka's Crow]

haha yeah... the iPod is totally different though. Having your music collection on the go is far more important than having 200 books on you. The iPod/MP3 players revolutionised the way people buy/listen to music, I can't see the e-reader will do the same. I'm no Luddite, I just don't see that the e-reader is anything other than a gimmick

They called it a brick, over-priced, too delicate, mac-bound etc, and the famous 'what do you need 500 songs for?' question also popped up every now and then. Of course hindsight is always 20-20, nobody believed in any future for that product back then. I will definitely dig up these posts in not too distant a future.

[Hank Stamper]

They called it a brick, over-priced, too delicate, mac-bound etc, and the famous 'what do you need 500 songs for?' question also popped up every now and then. Of course hindsight is always 20-20, nobody believed in any future for that product back then. I will definitely dig up these posts in not too distant a future.

who is 'they' - I always thought the iPod was a great idea

I'm sure some people will end up buying an e-reader who have previously sworn never to be interested, but I'm fairly confident that I wont be one!

[DapperDrake]

I don't think you can really draw a comparison between mp3 players and eBook readers, sadly. At least I think its fair to say eBook readers will not take off in the same way that mp3 players did.

1)The younger generations, who are the early adopters of technology, don't read as much as they listen to music – its “cool” to listen to a heavy metal band at 120db on an mp3 player but somehow I don't see kids deriving the same kudos from reading an eBook.
2)Any music is easily available, legally or otherwise, in the mp3 format. How many books that are in the book store right now are easily available in a single, free, eBook format? Its not like you can take a paperback home, rip it to pdf and share it with the world (not that I'm endorsing piracy but lets face it, piracy made mp3 players possible).
3)Mp3 already had a popular base before the mp3 player came along, everyone I knew in the years immediately preceding mp3 players had vast library's of mp3's on their computer – I know nobody (among my peers) that has even a single eBook (except myself).
4)The eBook reader devices cost way too much, even the original mp3 players that could barely hold a CD's worth of music and were the size of a pack of cards were affordable.
5)Ebook reader devices are too unwieldy, an mp3 player can be put in your pocket and be barely noticeable but eBook readers are chunky because of the screen – foldable or rollable displays are definitely needed.
6)Publishers are loath to put their books in an eBook format because they, probably rightly, fear piracy. The only piracy protection they have is the fact that you can't readily convert a paperback into an eBook, most of the pirates work is done already if the publisher releases an ebook.

Despite all this I think there is a definite niche, and not a small one, for eBook readers. I long for the day when decent eBook readers are affordable and have folding/rolling screens, this may still be years off but at that time I can assure you I won't be buying any more "real" books.

[JBI]

I don't think you can really draw a comparison between mp3 players and eBook readers, sadly. At least I think its fair to say eBook readers will not take off in the same way that mp3 players did.

1)The younger generations, who are the early adopters of technology, don't read as much as they listen to music – its “cool” to listen to a heavy metal band at 120db on an mp3 player but somehow I don't see kids deriving the same kudos from reading an eBook.
2)Any music is easily available, legally or otherwise, in the mp3 format. How many books that are in the book store right now are easily available in a single, free, eBook format? Its not like you can take a paperback home, rip it to pdf and share it with the world (not that I'm endorsing piracy but lets face it, piracy made mp3 players possible).
3)Mp3 already had a popular base before the mp3 player came along, everyone I knew in the years immediately preceding mp3 players had vast library's of mp3's on their computer – I know nobody that has even a single eBook (except myself).
4)The eBook reader devices cost way too much, even the original mp3 players that could barely hold a CD's worth of music and were the size of a pack of cards were affordable.
5)Ebook reader devices are too unwieldy, an mp3 player can be put in your pocket and be barely noticeable but eBook readers are chunky because of the screen – foldable or rollable displays are definitely needed.
6)Publishers are loath to put their books in an eBook format because they, probably rightly, fear piracy. The only piracy protection they have is the fact that you can't readily convert a paperback into an eBook, most of the pirates work is done already if the publisher releases an ebook.

Despite all this I think there is a definite niche, and not a small one, for eBook readers. I long for the day when decent eBook readers are affordable and have folding/rolling screens, this may still be years off but at that time I can assure you I won't be buying any more "real" books.

Actually, if I was to try and steal e-books from the net (which I wouldn't, as I find reading e-books terrible) I could come up with about 40 gigs of text files in English alone. I am sure, since the availability of these books exists, that there must be someone who is stealing them, yet I doubt this can be healthy.

Lets say the average novel, or whatever, is 350 pages, then it would take about 20 seconds a page to scan, so about 2 hours to steal a book. That is, of course, assuming they don't scan 2 pages at once, which would cut said time in half.

Either way though, I am praying eBooks do not take off, as it would ruin reading completely. Firstly it would destroy traditional publishing, which would harm the writing community severely, by squishing out the little guys completely, and secondly it would disrupt the natural process of writing in general, being that it wouldn't allow for books to live and die the same way.

The implications of an e-reader are immense. Just think of all the unknown books on Project Gutenberg, or even the untouched author's forums here, which still don't have their first posts. Those books, and every new book added to their pile will not have the chance to go out of print, and will merely float around in the same pile, until new technology happens to come along, and change the way we read again.

Either way though, I don't think the current generation will break away from books, but the millennium generation which are 8- right now will have a profound effect on the way technology influences the arts.

[DapperDrake]

Either way though, I am praying eBooks do not take off, as it would ruin reading completely. Firstly it would destroy traditional publishing, which would harm the writing community severely, by squishing out the little guys completely, and secondly it would disrupt the natural process of writing in general, being that it wouldn't allow for books to live and die the same way.

The implications of an e-reader are immense. Just think of all the unknown books on Project Gutenberg, or even the untouched author's forums here, which still don't have their first posts. Those books, and every new book added to their pile will not have the chance to go out of print, and will merely float around in the same pile, until new technology happens to come along, and change the way we read again.

Can you elaborate? i'm really not sure I follow. How could eReader devices possibly be bad for the writing community? and what could they possibly have to do with project Gutenberg?
Ruin reading!? that sounds a bit overly dramatic don't you think?

[JBI]

An eReader allows for the access of books without having an actual physical book. As such, one needs to know where to find the books. Project Gutenberg, for instance, is a giant stockpile of books, which, even if you read at all times, would take several lifetimes to complete (in just English, in all languages even longer). The immensity of the collection is made to be a problem, as there is nothing saying what gives more space, and what doesn't.

As a result, we are overwhelmed, and only the works that we know about can be read. There can be no browsing anymore, since one does not actually have the physical book in front of them. Sure, they can read a piece, but is that the same? Is the bookstore feeling of picking up a book by an author you haven't heard about, flipping through the pages, reading bits, even sitting there for an hour, the same? No it isn't, and can't be done, as there are too many books on the shelves.

Then we need to go with advertisement, and recommendations. How is a little guy supposed to compete against major publishers mass-advertising books by major authors? They simply cannot. It is not possible. Add in that the book shelves will not empty, and new stock will not replace the old stock, but only add onto it, then you have a problem.

Instead of having 2-3 Dan Brown books, Stephen King books, Daniel Steel books, David Silva books, etc. You will have every book published by these authors in the history of their careers available in one spot. These guys today take up so much of the shelf room, and their books are more likely to have faces forward than the little guy. How exactly is a budding poet supposed to have his work viewed by the public? As it is, publishers are trying to build themselves up, and many presses go bankrupt trying. Poetry, personal essays, and Short Stories have an even more difficult time starting out, as those genres are typically unread by the majority of the reading population. If you take away their tiny bit of shelf space, how can they be read, because, as I pointed out earlier, you lose the store browsing ability. No one is going to buy a poetry anthology unless they have a) heard great things, or b) have read a little bit of it. At an anthology of 100 pages, as the standard these days seems to be, what can they possibly sample?

The little guy will be overwhelmed. But not just that, the foreign guy will be overwhelmed. Canadians read far more American, British, and French lit than Canadian literature as it is. Imagine what will happen when the small Canadian presses are destroyed, and the massive American firms start advertising on the net. Utter chaos. Already if you go to bookstores, you see the American colonialism in effect. I recently came back from Europe, and, after visiting countless bookstores (a local pass time of mine on days where museums are closed) I realized that all of them contain Stephen King's new book (something Key, I cannot remember the name), Harry Potter, and other mass-produced works. The romance novels are the same; a few local names, but in many cases, an overwhelming amount of American names. In fact, cross-genre they all seem to have American books over representing themselves.

Of course, there are possible advantages; a) it will allow public domain books to be conveniently stored on one little device, and carried around. b) It will allow authors the potential of making more than 10%ish on booksales, and c) it will allow people to buy books without going out. But these are all minor things. These are all well and good, but look at the other effects; people will be overwhelmed with what they have to read, that they won't no which way to turn, being that they can literally carry the "western canon" or even the "world canon" around with them in their pocket. b) 10% royalties are an annoyance, any writer will tell you, but 100% of 0 is still 0. The increase in royalties only benefits those who have large sales; good luck with that if you haven't been published before, or if you haven't had your name in circulation. and c) sure you can enjoy not leaving to get your books, but that takes away one of the most enjoyable aspects of reading - going out and finding something that you haven't heard about, or that you haven't read, and deciding to buy it over something else, or deciding to buy it for someone, or deciding to take a chance with it, and then sitting at home with it, or giving it to a friend, and watching yourself fall in love with the work, or watching your friend fall in love with the work.

[Jozanny]

JBI, here we disagree. Digital technology is still in its infancy, but I agree with one observer who said the current disruption is about economics, not literature. I don't know how old you are, but I can glory in the degree of access which will be there for my 13 year old neice which isn't there for a 45 year old disabled woman like myself. I cannot get into certain bookstores or libraries to research--and, the developed world is already overwhelmed with information--whether or not one browses in chain distributors or through Google, Gutenberg, and their imitators.

Before I came online I read two newspapers, The Philadelphia Inquirer, and The New York Times.

Now I read Slate, The Washington Post, Dick Poleman, Politico, The Washington Monthly, in addition to others. This is both to keep me current and to look for market opportunities. Arguably, my byline would have never gotten in The Philadelphia Inquirer had it not been for the fact that I can stay current with the media.

There are things to be missed about traditional paper media, the way one can fall into a book or a high quality periodical--but the digital age is here, traditional copyright protection will give way, it has to, and writers will eventually adapt to a new order which is still being defined.

[DapperDrake]

JBI, Yes there may be some chaos if eBooks really take off, much like the music industry has experienced, but like the music industry I don't see that its really going to fundamentally damage creativity. Many of the arguments you make were made against mp3 and music sharing but in reality its had little discernible impact.

Regarding your points about obscurity in a book store free world, to be fair I think this can be solved by simply replacing the book store with the online book store, if the browsing features are good enough then there will be little difference between the real and the virtual. You don't have to overwhelm the consumer with every book ever made just because you can, its perfectly possible to have a "current stock" section of an online book store as well as a full archive.

[JBI]

A current stock is less advantageous to the eBook store. They will be like Amazon, having everything, but even worse, will literally have everything. No author is going to pull his book off the eBook shelves, as no author wants, even in the paper-world, their book off the shelves. Therefore, even if they stop being advertised, they will still be there, and they will be hit when the author's name is entered.

Either way though, Marshall McLuhan, in 1964 released a philosophical book called Understanding Media, in which he goes over the different effects different forms of media have, and where he came to the conclusion, The Medium is the Message. What this study tried to show, was how our mind responds differently depending how we get our information. He speaks on radio and television, and how it has a different effect than reading.

What I guess the point of bringing McLuhan into the picture, was to try and put things in perspective. No matter what, eReaders will have a profound impact if they go mainstream. The question is though, whether it will be good or bad. I think though, that the bad will outweigh the good, especially in a society that is already suffering a decline in reading, yet then again, I could be some sort of Cassandra, or I could be some sort of Savonarola. Who knows.

[Joreads]

I have no doubt that our children and our childrens, children will be reading books on an e readers, there is only one way in this digital world and that is forward (though there will be some people that don't think it is forward). It is a shame to think that they will miss out on what I think is one of the best things about reading, that is spending hours in my local bookshop deciding what to read next or the excitement of walking into a second hand shop and finding that book that you have been looking for in perfect condition at a really great price.

[Hank Stamper]

JBI, Yes there may be some chaos if eBooks really take off, much like the music industry has experienced, but like the music industry I don't see that its really going to fundamentally damage creativity. Many of the arguments you make were made against mp3 and music sharing but in reality its had little discernible impact.

Music sharing and MP3 downloads have completely changed the music industry... big labels are dropping artists who can not shift large units and therefore that stifles creativity because new bands are not being given a chance... self-publishing is the result but that means less cash and the necessity of said artists having to get proper jobs to finance their music careers which will inevitably have a very discernable effect on their creativity... I was a music journalist for five years and have seen first hand hundreds of smaller labels close down because of illegal downloading etc... without smaller independent labels some bands/artists will never get music released... obviously creativity is not something that is directly governed by market conditions, because you either have talent or you dont. however if you have to work 40 odd hours a week, the time spent on being creative is less and therefore it will have an impact on the number of artists/bands that are successful

i wouldn't want to speculate on the effect of eBooks on the publishing industry in general because the markets are completely different, i just think you are wrong to say that mp3 and music sharing has had little discernable impact on the music industry, because it blatantly has.

[DapperDrake]

i wouldn't want to speculate on the effect of eBooks on the publishing industry in general because the markets are completely different, i just think you are wrong to say that mp3 and music sharing has had little discernable impact on the music industry, because it blatantly has.

I don't think I said it has had no impact on the industry, I realise the impact has been huge but to be fair what does the consumer care about the record companies? The point is that I don't think that there has been a noticeable impact on the end consumer, either from the point of reduced choice or quality (pop music is as bad as ever). I haven't heard a single person - average joe - saying "boy, music has really gone down hill since mp3 showed up".

I'm not denying that the publishing industry could be in for a nasty shake up if eBooks take off (5, 10, or 15 years down the line), but at the end of the day books aren't written by publishing companies and they aren't read (consumed) by publishing companies, they are middle men, and they will just need to evolve into whatever their new role might be. We will always need editors and quality control and promotion so there will always be a role of some sort for publishers.

[Jozanny]

I don't think I said it has had no impact on the industry, I realise the impact has been huge but to be fair what does the consumer care about the record companies? The point is that I don't think that there has been a noticeable impact on the end consumer, either from the point of reduced choice or quality (pop music is as bad as ever). I haven't heard a single person - average joe - saying "boy, music has really gone down hill since mp3 showed up".

I'm not denying that the publishing industry could be in for a nasty shake up if eBooks take off (5, 10, or 15 years down the line), but at the end of the day books aren't written by publishing companies and they aren't read (consumed) by publishing companies, they are middle men, and they will just need to evolve into whatever their new role might be. We will always need editors and quality control and promotion so there will always be a role of some sort for publishers.

Whether it is music, book publishing, or video content, neither the economic nor legal framework has caught up with the technology yet. Copyright and intellectual property issues are particularly nettlesome, and I am not much of an expert. Giving a literary website first rights for nothing is something of a joke, especially if the domain goes up for sale and the *&^% content vanishes. Forgive my expletive but I've had this happen and it upsets me. For a writer to give away her work simply for exposure in someone else's pages is one thing. To have it disappear because the site doesn't occupy three dimensional space is another. Are my first rights technically still gone? First rights are how a writer is paid, thus valuable, as of yet. At least with a paper journal you still have the evidence of having been a contributor, even if the publication ceases.

But even with purchased content, publishers usually give you the right to resell in 90 days, which rarely happens. Authors do get reprinted, but it isn't a regular occurrence.

Copyright and intellectual property law is already byzantine, and although I cannot predict how, the technical and economic pressures will no doubt lead to significant restructuring.

[wilbur lim]

Candidly,PAPER books is more stimulating than e-books.Common sense,my friend,reading form Internet makes you genuinely jaded.One advantage of e-books is that you do not need to buy nor borrow the books.Furthermore,Internet is literally fast.

[K. Skywalker]

E-books terribly hurt my eyes every time. I prefer a real book, because you can hold it and feel the pages in your hands. Your eyes will be comfortable in a way. There's no painful background light emitting from your computer screens.

[DapperDrake]

E-books terribly hurt my eyes every time. I prefer a real book, because you can hold it and feel the pages in your hands. Your eyes will be comfortable in a way. There's no painful background light emitting from your computer screens.

We have alread discussed e-Paper as a solution to to that, to be fair though a dedicated eReader device is too expensive to be practical to your average person, myself included unfortuantely.
However when you compare a book to an eBook in terms of convenience and comfort you have to factor in eReader devices, or at least PDAs and pocket PC's as these answer 90% of the common objections to ebooks. Otherwise, I concur, there is no contest - reading from a PC screen at a desk is abominable.

[mickitaz]

I have been following this thread for quite some time now, as this is a topic of general interest to me. I can sympathize with the comments on concern regarding piracy. It is a very real concern for the market. While it is similar, it is by no means identical to that of the mp3 market. However, what it boils down to is this... personal integrity to uphold the values which we ourselves hold dear.

I know many people who essentially laugh at me for "buying" my music. While, this poses a problem for me on a storage level (I do not have a whole lot of space to be storing my voracious cd collection). I personally feel that I am supporting the arts that I so dearly love. Being generally a classical and "world" music enthusiast, this genre is usually not available for "free downloads". And while this may be a reason I purchase this music, rather than download it; I have come to adopt this principle in my overall character.

In this same way, I have been following the ebook market. It concerned me for the book industry I so dearly love. I was concerned that it would depreciate the value of the author's themselves. However, I was hopeful that it would open a whole different type of person to the possibility of appreciating books. The overall effect of this device has not made itself clear at this point. The debates are similar to those posted here. It will be interesting how the computer industry and legal represenatives choose to approach this challenge.

We can say what we like about the individual device itself. There are a few out on the market with different features and such. For me, it is tempting, again for the space restriction. I am continuously running out of room on my bookshelves and flat surface areas to house those books which I can't seem to part with. I cannot afford to store them in the "proper" sense to avoid deterioation of the book themselves. And in this sense, I feel that I would disgrace the book by treating it such disrespect.

What it boils down to is this.... personal character. If you chose to purchase such a device, it is up to you as an adult (I assume you are one ;) ) to be responsible about the usage of its contents. If you truly love the book industry as a whole, your respect for such personages will dicate on whether you purchase or pirate; should you have the option.

IMO, this is just one more way to test civilization on its moral fiber.

[fleaaaaaa]

Hey I was just wondering for the person who had the sony reader or anyone who knows the answer.

Can you upload Free E-books to the sony reader or do you have to get legal/paid for ones?

What files does it load? Does it load mobibooks?

Just wondering cos theres a new one out soon and I may get one. Most of the literature I want is online free..... and I'd like to upload some poems too.


Thanks

[mickitaz]

yes. with the Sony reader you can upload free books. As far as the mobibooks.. I am not sure.. you might try your question at mobileread.com. A lot of folks there share their experiences and questions in reference to all of the readers on the market.

[Jozanny]

I do not know what happened to the kindle thread, but I would like to correct an error I posted to WuWei: I wrote that archived kindle content could not be deleted, and I was only correct insofar as it pertains to deleting from Your Media Library. If you literally want to remove content it can be done from computer> my account> my orders, and then you turn kindle wireless on, sync to Amazon, and voila, the content disappears, but I would use this sparingly if any money was paid for the text file; even with the free files, if those are under copyright Amazon can offer it free one day and then put a price in place the next.

I hope this post corrects my unintended error.

[varnish7]

My e-reader is pretty cool. It came with over 100 classics already on it. Plus, you can download others for free. It's easier than trying to find time to go to the library or bookstore. Plus, if you're one of those readers who can't resist flipping to the end, the e-reader kind of discourages that.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Just one question, with these e-reader things can you annotate whilst reading them in some form? I assume that you can't and it strikes me as another drawback of using them. Whenever I read, mostly I will annotate what I am reading, jot down thoughts here and there, but surely this is not possible with the e-readers, or can you do this?

Either way though, I don't think that I'll be getting one in the near future, though I can see them inevitably taking over eventually.

[papayahed]

Just one question, with these e-reader things can you annotate whilst reading them in some form? I assume that you can't and it strikes me as another drawback of using them. Whenever I read, mostly I will annotate what I am reading, jot down thoughts here and there, but surely this is not possible with the e-readers, or can you do this?

Either way though, I don't think that I'll be getting one in the near future, though I can see them inevitably taking over eventually.

Yes, you can, there is the ability to make notes anywhere in the text and you can search on those notes.

[spookymulder93]

This is one area where I think I'll stick to the old school.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes, you can, there is the ability to make notes anywhere in the text and you can search on those notes.

OK thanks, they've obviously thought of that one then, I thought that there may be a gap in the market for a e-reader student edition, but obviously not. I wonder if you can print off your notes on them too, can you do that do you know, I bet you can then?

[Jozanny]

OK thanks, they've obviously thought of that one then, I thought that there may be a gap in the market for a e-reader student edition, but obviously not. I wonder if you can print off your notes on them too, can you do that do you know, I bet you can then?

Yes, but it has to be done through your pc usb port. I am pc stupid but I have my ereader operation down; it breaks my heart that this was not around when I could have closed the deal on my doctorate, because I probably could have with tools such as this.

[Kafka's Crow]

For me audiobooks all the way. I can read ebooks (I have a very very smart ereader for that purpose and will buy an iPad in very near future) and I regularly buy and pile up paper books but for the time being I can only afford to give time to audiobooks. I listen to my books while walking the dog and during my commute to and from work.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I used to listen to audio books when I had this other job where I could listen to the headphones all I wanted. I would read on the bus to the job, listen all day to various audio books, then read on the bus all the way home, then read at home - it was good; the audio books kept me in that job for about three more years then I would have done. However now with that job gone I don't have any reasons to listen to them, so have hardly used them since.

[Kotetsu1442]

I've never been able to listen to audio books. In any setting when I can read, I would rather be read (its much faster) and in any setting where I have to primarily give my attention to something else so I can't read, such as in the car, I unconsciously turn it into background noise and tune it out. I still have a fairly good collection of public domain audio books because I have a few friends who swear by them for their long car rides and they've come to count on me for recommendations of something interesting that they haven't read/heard yet.

As far as e-books go, though they've come a long way in the last handful of years, I don't think that they could ever outright replace paper books. They certainly have several uses that can make it more convenient to make than getting ahold of a paper book (actually, my chosen college Senior Project was to build an e-book, so I would hope I have some appreciation for them), but as several of the comments on this thread demonstrate there are some aspects of paper books that people simply prefer.

To bring up a point that hasn't been mentioned here: One thought I heard recently that I never would have thought of on my own is that with ebooks one does not have the opportunity for serendipitous conversation. For example, if I see a co-worker with a kindle reading during every break, unless I regularly ask them the obnoxious "Whatcha readin'," then I won't know when they are reading something I might actually be interested in discussing with them. Likewise, a stranger on the bus might be reading my favorite book of all time, and I'd be happy to strike up a conversation about it for the rest of the bus ride (I've done this before) but I would never know to if they were reading it on an ebook reader (and I certainly don't want every stranger on the bus to ask me what I'm reading or try to peer over my shoulder).

[dafydd manton]

Personally, I like reading in the bath. Not sure that taking my lap-top is a brilliant idea, and at least if I drop a paper book, it'll dry out, although it might not be too pretty. I know how it feels.

[MadcapLaugher]

Last weekend I bought a Kobo eBook reader from Chapters. I personally, at least right now, enjoy it more than a typical book. The big thing for me is that I ride the bus quite often and never know what mood I'll be in on the way home; and I used to need to carry 5+ books at a time. With an eBook reader I have 100+ with me right now from many different genres.

Worth the 150$ in my opinion.

[Iwanuschka]

Paper all the way for me, even if it's just for the fine odour of "fresh" books. And the joy of stalking through the library in search of something to read.
Sadly, I fear that someday they may become the same conossieur object vinyl records have become :(

Pessimism aside, I hate audiobooks since I read much faster than some dude (or woman) can narrate and thus get bored. Anyone else sharing that quirk?

[JBI]

Strangely after reading and looking around, it seems that China has pretty much gone down the route of e-publishing without the rest of the world, where people pay per word for novels, almost exclusively pop fiction. what this implies is, to me, a recreating of the Newspaper years of 19th century serialized novels, where people will pay per subscription, per word pretty much, to grab the latest volume of literature and find out day to day how their favorite stories finish.

At the moment, 90% of best selling romances begin as e-published texts commercially.

If that were to hit the American market, which combined with other English countries would make up a sizable netizen population, the implications for mass-genre producing presses are dreary - Harlequin would become obsolete quickly, if, as we model on the Chinese example, the first 1/3 of a book is handed for free, and the rest readers pay per page - in that world, capitalist fiction connects directly to the readers as before, recreating the traditional serialized world of fiction in the modern day.


To me now, looking at it, it seems only a matter of time - and probably sensible in its conceptualization, especially when those e-readers become 60$ or less (that also is only a matter of time, as sooner or later cheaper equivalents will emerge, as it isn't too difficult to make an e-reader). When that happens, commercial printing will become bound to e-publishing.

What is slowing things down is generally the nature of our markets - TV sitcoms rather than TV dramas are the norm, so adaptation, which feeds much of the Chinese market, is impossible. Likewise, the demographic of people reading is dismal, whereas by sheer number of netizens, a Chinese market has millions of teenage and 20-30 year olds reading in mass numbers.

The transition will happen eventually though, since 10$ for a book that may be bad isn't plausible anymore, and 20$ surely isn't. Novels seem better suited for serialization anyway, given their derivative nature, so I think I must retract my early statements, and say, though my preference is certainly in favor of printed books - they are better to me, - electronic books will dominate in the near future, and take over.

[Paulclem]

It makes sense to me. I like books - i'm a book nerd - i got an inordinate amount of pleasure selecting the book covers I had on my original editions when I recently signed up to Library Thing.

Yet I know I'll end up with an e-reader. it will make economic sense, as JBI points out, plus all the other advantages too. paper books wil be really special then, and a dying breed.

[JBI]

It makes sense to me. I like books - i'm a book nerd - i got an inordinate amount of pleasure selecting the book covers I had on my original editions when I recently signed up to Library Thing.

Yet I know I'll end up with an e-reader. it will make economic sense, as JBI points out, plus all the other advantages too. paper books wil be really special then, and a dying breed.

it's not even that - there are literally millions of people who read on smartphones now, rather than printed form. the actual practicality of such an idea, plus the necessity to innovate will have these e-readers cheaper and cheaper as soon as e-text as a medium advances in the English market.

I think it's just dependent on linguistic barriers now. China has 385+ million netizens, reading in Chinese, so it's easy for them, who have a very strange publishing industry anyway (books are like 1$, and often start as ebooks before being published due to popularity).

Also, our presses don't have a great relationship with the television, which creates another problem, so if we take Japan for example, the Manga artist can expect, if successful, some sort of adaptation (even if they are drawing the worst, most deranged of pornography) and the Chines romance writer can expect some Soap Opera adaptation.

Here we don't have that, which makes commercial writing too tied in with publishing - also publishers (and we are talking the big players) don't seem to want to adapt, because of their ridiculous foothold on profit margins.

If we could get the pay-per-read going on from net reading, and even move that into other genres, not only could reading and writing advance, but also much of the copyright problem of infringement can, to some extent be avoided. As it is, if the readers gain popularity, there is little venue for good commercial writing on the net, so people will just resort to illegal e-texts. IF there was a market, the same way Itunes works for songs, the author would fair a lot better. As it is the author is making a 10% margin on royalties - that same amount can be made while getting books at a much cheaper prince - people would be willing, for instance, to spend 2$ a book, and if 1$ goes to the author, they have made the same profit, only people can read more for their dollar, and the advertisement can be brought up to speed.

That being said, some text will always exist, as the best-selling will be published, or republished traditionally, but electronic text for commercial writing has, to my knowledge now, become so persuasive as a better commercial option, that authors will be inclined to move to.

It will begin with mediocre authors, then pulp authors, until best-selling authors begin publishing in both mediums conveniently, then eventually its influence will spread, to the point where genre writing will be so tied to the internet, that even non-fiction and poetry will feel the need to adapt.

Poetry will be hard to go with, but as it is poetry is not commercial, so maybe people will recreate that communal identity of poetry readers onto the web, where discussion and understanding have begun to move anyway. Look at this forum for instance, if discussion of literature is heading onto the internet, as well as in the street, then ultimately publishing online is sensible.

[LMK]

Paper, please!

[Night_Lamp]

Having over a thousand books at home, paper is my first choice, but I recently spent a few minutes playing with a Kobo at Chapters when I was in the other day, and it's a pretty neat toy. My issue is how many of us with personal libraries will end up with multiple formats of the same text? For example, I have it at home in paper, but want an easy way to travel with it; or I loved it on e-text, and now I want a hard copy for my library. Computers, of any sort crash eventually, and how is the system backed up?

The advantage in coming years would be for us university students to be able to download onto a digital reader our required texts, from a campus bookstore website. That would be great! I was very angry this summer when my inter-session class required a specific edition of a two-hundred old text which was over $50 new in paperback! What a rip-off.

[minstrelbard]

Pessimism aside, I hate audiobooks since I read much faster than some dude (or woman) can narrate and thus get bored. Anyone else sharing that quirk?

Most people read faster than they talk. Or that narrators talk. I don't regard that as a quirk.

What may be my personal quirk is that I like well-crafted prose that sounds good when read aloud. I deliberately read slowly, and often read aloud, if the prose is good enough. My problem with audiobooks is that the person reading doesn't perform the work the way I would - sometimes that's very annoying!

[FROADS]

I've read a lot of e-books and can safely say that I'm never gonna switch. It's easier on the eyes and you can customize the font to what suits you best...I personally think paper books, at some point, will cease to be produced in a massive scale. If you take into account environmental factors, E-books provides a reasonable option.

[Paulclem]

Just read in a mag yesterday about publishing e-books. It's a growing market. Some authors are turning to e-publishing without the constraints of paper poublishing. It'll be big.

[LostNBrevity]

I personally read ebooks now that i have an ipad. I find they are great as far as being practical and convenient but the only drawback is you cant really share the book with your friends.

[Serena03]

Although I much prefer the hard copies for reasons already stated, lately I had to succumb to e-books due to financial situations. I suppose this is where the library would be best to turn to, but the availability and selection is not always there. Those Kindle/nook devices seem to have their conveniences, especially for space making, but they are not the same. Electronic devices cannot be fully reliable.

[keilj]

I wonder how you burn an e-book.

[yan93]

Paper books will last longer and I can flip back and forth between the pages faster? Not too sure since I haven't actually read an e-book before. But for now I'll say that I find paper books more.. pleasant.

I'll definitely try those e-book readers one day when they take over the world or something.

[David Lurie]

Is the Book Dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00v4s8v

[hazelk]

Paper for me, bookshops draw me in like a giant magnet.

[thecreature]

Well, they both have their place in my life.

I like the flexibility of the actual physical book. I can take it anywhere, hide in a corner with it, take it on a Ferris wheel, lay upon a raft with it. There are no worries of dead batteries or malfunction. It's always going to be there except in the cases of extreme elemental disaster of which any medium must hold it's breath against.

The e-book is a matter of convenience. As it stands, we have access to tons of information that exceeds even the largest library. To trade books or buy books online and receive instant access is a concept we are still trying to corral and fully take under our wing. The Kindle is a mere prototype of the ideal that has yet to come. The ideal would either be some sort of realistic digital paper book that you could download words onto or, to some, the ability to download text straight into the brain! The e-book isn't to be feared. For the information is still there, waiting to be read. But it hasn't reached its full potential yet, so physical books still have their place and function.

[keilj]

one problem with e-readers is they are technology. Ie, they will have to be upgraded or replaced every 4 or 5 years (see the different generations of the Kindle). It is like a computer, laptop, or even cell phone, the technology required to read your books will come with a neverending upgrade price tag.

That doesn't make e-readers vastly inferior - it is just one drawback about them

If I buy a paperback, I don't need to upgrade a reading device for it for $100+ every few years

[Paulclem]

I've been reading about e-publishing recently, and it's certainly an easy and possibly profitable way of getting published and sold.

It's opening up!

[metal134]

For the longest time, I was in the crowd that had to have the feel of a book in my hand. But I recently made the plunge and wish I did so years ago. One of the major benefits is free books. Tons and tons of free books/really cheap. Amzon had files of authors entire libraries for free or under $5.00. I downloaded a file of the entire works of HG Wells off Amazon for something like $2.00. I also grabbed the libraries of H.P Lovecraft, Robert Louis Stevenson, Oscar Wilde, etc. all for about $2.00 a pop. Tons of books by Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Hugo, Joyce, etc. all for free. For years I have been searching for affordable sets of "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" and the "Arabian Night." Got both of them, the ENTIRE sets for free. I know they were already available to read on the web, but that's not an enjoyable way to read, nor is it portable. A Kindle (or whatever e-reader) is enjoyable to read on and is portable. It's great.

[Razeus]

I can swing both ways. For longer books, I prefer paper. I like seeing the progress being made. I'm spending the fall/winter finally reading the classics of Russian literature, all on paperback. Shorter books and more current books, I can do on my iPad using the Kindle or iBook apps.

[TaintedBeauty]

I totally prefer paper books.
I don't like reading on the computer or on e-readers. I can not manage to focus to read. And it will eventually screw up your eyes. An article I read a few weeks ago said that reading speed actually goes down with the use of e-readers.

[hazelk]

I am sure that there will come a time when e-books will be for me.

For the meantime one of my greatest pleasures in life is finding paper books at all of the different outlets. Covers get me in, I do not buy new books and I do not keep keep many, only the special ones, I pass the others on to a little retirement village library. It may only be two a week, that is enough to keep me happy:seeya::seeya:

[DapperDrake]

Wow, old thread. :)

I have to say though that I feel a little vindicated by recent trends in eBook reading, though even I'm a little surprised by how quickly things are progressing. Personally I do nearly all my reading on my iphone these days, its gotten to the point where I have high quality hardbacks sitting untouched in my bookcase and I'm reading a ebook version of the same on my phone.

I think its fair to say that eReaders and ebooks have irrevocably progressed past the point of being gimmicky.

[inbetween]

hm.... dunno if the real book is dying
but to me it's paper!
easier to handle, not so easy to break... easier to make notes in and underline stuff
then there is the paper the ink... the touch the smell, the cover of course, I buy many books because of their cover..
and then, the way they are stored in my room ... it's each book a world, they need to be seperated like this
but perhaps I'm just oldfashioned


Paper for me, bookshops draw me in like a giant magnet.

true true.. a bookshop .... as if there where worlds lined up for me to chose which one I want to escape to... it's just the real stuff

[hazelk]

The paper book is just so special for me, the cover is so important of course.

If I am lucky enough to find a special book I will hold it to my chest, not caring if I am observed.

I have even been known to give a special book a kiss.

Book searching is one of my greatest pleasures in life.

[Joyeuse]

Is the Book Dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00v4s8v

Thank you for that, David. I really enjoyed that talk. First of all, because I loved the UK-ish accents. But also because I thought it was an engaging conversation.

I personally love the e-book. I think it's the wave of the future and it's so convenient. I was actually able to buy Journey to the West--a one-thousand page novel--for only one dollar. I could never get such a deal from a real book! The main argument for the real book is the aesthetic sense: it smells good, it feels good, etc. That is true, and for that reason I do feel the book will always stay with us. But quite frankly, arguing the importance of a book's smell seems like a trite argument when compared to the accessibility of e-books. Don't get me wrong, I love books, but e-books are the future. And more than that, e-books provide a different sort of literature. They provide the potential for something revolutionary. In particular I'm excited about the episodic format of it all. In many ways, these novels will almost be given out in a television-esque format and that's just going to change literature so much. I'm excited to see what the future holds.

I'll give a link of my own, for people who want to take a gander at books being written online: http://webfictionguide.com/ That's a great little website which compiles a good number of the e-books being written online

[LitNetIsGreat]

Oh dear, I'm thinking of getting one of those new Kindle things. Anybody got one?

I mean the ability to hold my library in my hand and get almost any book I want instantly is a huge pull. On top of this are the free classic books which are available. I also have to think about saving space, as I do not have the room for any more books. Anybody recommend one of these?

[Alexander III]

Yep I have a kindle and I love it, its nothing like reading of a screen, electronic ink is immensely easy on the eyes, also having all your books in one small device is a huge boon, not to mention the fact that you buy books for much cheaper. However as a negative, many of the kindle editions you find of poetry are badly formatted with line-breaks and such, but a bit of searching and a well formatted edition is usually found, so yea with poetry before buying always download a sample to check what its like.

I definitely recommend it !

[LitNetIsGreat]

Great thanks. I can definitely see the advantages of one. Is it a straight-forward process to download the books, apparently you don't even have to do it via a computer, you can do it direct from the device? Are most of the classics really free? I know that the price for a lot of them are £0.00 but are there any add-on costs with those or are they really completely free? How useful is the annotation facility?

Thanks.

[Alexander III]

yea downloading books is very easy, you do it straight from your device and you have the book within 60 seconds. And yes you do have a huge number of free classics, though which free ones they give you are weirdly arranged; for example there is only one free classic for victor hugo, and its a minor work of his, but there are a dozen plus free classics for Balzac. Oh and yes the free ones are utterly free. The annotation facility is simple to use, as is the highlighting one, after the first few days of fiddling about everything on the kindle feels natural and the book begins to feel awkward. However a bad thing about the free classics, is that they only include the text, there are no introductions or literary articles about said book, as you will find in a penguins edition. So I also like to buy the penguin edition classics on my kindle on occasion for the literary essays at the beginning, but all penguin classic books on a kindle are 30-40% cheaper than the penguin paperback of the same classic. Also many of the free classics for foreign works have outdated translations, of which some are great and others less so. Oh and last suggestion, get the kindle with the inbuilt 3G wireless internet connection. It costs an extra 40 pounds but, you can access the kindle store and buy books form everywhere and its much faster. Also the kindle has a new technology which allows you to use it and access the internet, and you can go to most websites, which is very convenient especially when you are reading find something curious and want to wikipedia it to find out more.

[Scheherazade]

Great thanks. I can definitely see the advantages of one. Is it a straight-forward process to download the books, apparently you don't even have to do it via a computer, you can do it direct from the device? Are most of the classics really free? I know that the price for a lot of them are £0.00 but are there any add-on costs with those or are they really completely free? How useful is the annotation facility?

Thanks.Yes, it is very easy and I hear soon Jamie Oliver will be releasing a new range of all Organic, environmentally friendly collection of classic ebooks!

:smilewinkgrin:

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes, it is very easy and I hear soon Jamie Oliver will be releasing a new range of all Organic, environmentally friendly collection of classic ebooks!

:smilewinkgrin:

Excellent, excellent. While we're on the subject, I've just ordered Hugh Fearnely-Whittingstall's new River Cottage cookbook for Christmas as well, Everyday - might top up with the bread one too. Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall is wonderful.

Still thinking about the kindle, I must admit I'm tempted.

Edit: oh and are the "free" books really free?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yes, the free books are really free. I've downloaded several Joseph Conrad cooks, some Kipling, and Moby Dick. The only problem is sometimes the formatting is bad (as in stupid page breaks). Kim was unreadable. Even though this is the case, you can still download books for free off other sites, like Project Gutenberg.

I'm going to have to disagree on getting the 3G access, though. But that's ONLY if you have a wi-fi connection and won't be traveling a lot.

[Uberzensch]

I would certainly use an ereader if I got a free electronic copy of the book when I bought a physical copy. I'd use the ereader for convenience, but will NEVER replace physical books.

[LitNetIsGreat]

OK, I never did get around to purchasing the Kindle, however I think that I must get the new one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindle-Wi-Fi-6-Ink-Display/dp/B0051QVF7A/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

For £89 it has to be a bargain surely?

Anybody got it yet?

[Emil Miller]

OK, I never did get around to purchasing the Kindle, however I think that I must get the new one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindle-Wi-Fi-6-Ink-Display/dp/B0051QVF7A/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

For £89 it has to be a bargain surely?

Anybody got it yet?

The title of one of Anthony Powell's series 'A Dance to the Music of Time' is called 'Books do Furnish a Room'. Will anyone be able to say: 'A Kindle does furnish a room'?

[Paulclem]

The title of one of Anthony Powell's series 'A Dance to the Music of Time' is called 'Books do Furnish a Room'. Will anyone be able to say: 'A Kindle does furnish a room'?

There's not much of a difference between books furnishing and books being all over the place in piles. You could furnish with classic covers and get the rest on a kindle. Easy.

[Emil Miller]

There's not much of a difference between books furnishing and books being all over the place in piles. You could furnish with classic covers and get the rest on a kindle. Easy.

There is difference between having books neatly shelved rather than piled untidily around a property. If you mean furnishing with false covers, then they wouldn't be books.

[cafolini]

There's not much of a difference between books furnishing and books being all over the place in piles. You could furnish with classic covers and get the rest on a kindle. Easy.

Agree. Kindle solves many issues at once. The most expensive is the cost of shipping. The convenience is also important. The Kindle version for a PC is free at Amazon. And there are many free books, and others that are not free cost a lot less than the paperback versions. If you travel a lot, the cost of Kindle tablets has gone down considerably. The problem of carrying books around is solved.
Environmentally the only paper that's fully justified today is toilet paper.

[Paulclem]

There is difference between having books neatly shelved rather than piled untidily around a property. If you mean furnishing with false covers, then they wouldn't be books.

Yes - We've got them shelved and untidily piled due to little space, and this is what I meant - the inevitable lack of space if you collect books. Don't get me wrong - I'd collect books any day - I do, but I can't store them anymore. I have to move them on. So a kindle would be great.

I certainly didn't mean those naff false books. Ratners has gone now hasn't it?:biggrin5:


Agree. Kindle solves many issues at once. The most expensive is the cost of shipping. The convenience is also important. The Kindle version for a PC is free at Amazon. And there are many free books, and others that are not free cost a lot less than the paperback versions. If you travel a lot, the cost of Kindle tablets has gone down considerably. The problem of carrying books around is solved.
Environmentally the only paper that's fully justified today is toilet paper.

I want one.

Recycled T-paper I hope. :biggrin5:

[LitNetIsGreat]

The title of one of Anthony Powell's series 'A Dance to the Music of Time' is called 'Books do Furnish a Room'. Will anyone be able to say: 'A Kindle does furnish a room'?


Yes - We've got them shelved and untidily piled due to little space, and this is what I meant - the inevitable lack of space if you collect books. Don't get me wrong - I'd collect books any day - I do, but I can't store them anymore. I have to move them on. So a kindle would be great.

You see this is the thing. I've got two bookcases of books, in a small two bedroom house, with piles building up around me, everywhere, and I can't really go on this way. On top of this, when you can have the likes of The Complete Works of Thomas Hardy for 71p, The Works of Maupassant Vol 1 for £0.00 and hundreds of other such things at ridiculous prices/free, instantly there, it doesn't really become an feasible option to keep resisting. It's not like I'm not going to stop reading paper books - it just seems like the obvious move.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-British-Fiction-complete-ebook/dp/B001BMM7ZC/ref=pd_cp_kinc_4

[Mr.lucifer]

Plus it saves a lot of money. For me, I don't have the extra space for books and I'm not a book collector.

[Lacra]

Plus it saves a lot of money. For me, I don't have the extra space for books and I'm not a book collector.

I am the opposite. I love reading paper books. However, I do have hundreds of books in electronic format, and if it is difficult for me to find the desired book , then I will read it using the computer.

[Desolation]

I'll stick to physical books for as long as they're still available (which is to say, a few more months). There's just a lot that I don't like about complete digitalization.

[Emil Miller]

You see this is the thing. I've got two bookcases of books, in a small two bedroom house, with piles building up around me, everywhere, and I can't really go on this way. On top of this, when you can have the likes of The Complete Works of Thomas Hardy for 71p, The Works of Maupassant Vol 1 for £0.00 and hundreds of other such things at ridiculous prices/free, instantly there, it doesn't really become an feasible option to keep resisting. It's not like I'm not going to stop reading paper books - it just seems like the obvious move.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-British-Fiction-complete-ebook/dp/B001BMM7ZC/ref=pd_cp_kinc_4

Yes I do see the problem and it's inevitable that electronic books will replace the paper variety. When I was a boy there were very few books in the house because I got all of my reading from the local library; which obviated the need to clutter up the place with books. However, if companies are willing to offer great writing for virtually nothing as loss leaders for the likes of Harry Potter etc., people will in all likelihood go for the digitalized format.

[mal4mac]

I totally prefer paper books.
I don't like reading on the computer or on e-readers. I can not manage to focus to read. And it will eventually screw up your eyes. An article I read a few weeks ago said that reading speed actually goes down with the use of e-readers.

What article was that? The usability guru Jakob Nielsen has several articles on the Kindle, e.g:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/ipad-kindle-reading.html

Summary - reading speeds are 10% slower. Also, users "disliked that the Kindle featured less-crisp gray-on-gray letters." I've found this when reading "in store", and it put me off taking the plunge. I wondered if it was the lighting or my eyes - nope, it's the Kindle.

Neely - surely you can fit another bookcase in? When that's full give your books away to potential Oscar Wildes in your classes ... can't do that with a Kindle...

Pop down to John Lewis and try reading one for twenty minutes. (or PC World - though they are very unhelpful - I asked one young geek if I copuld have a reading lamp to test the Kindle thoroughly, he mumbled something about not having a reading lamp and rushed away to reboot a PC...) John Lewis has reading lamps and the staff are patient enough to put up with reasonable requests... The screen was too grey for me, even when using a posh JL lamp...

[Emil Miller]

Neely - surely you can fit another bookcase in? When that's full give your books away to potential Oscar Wildes in your classes ... can't do that with a Kindle...
It depends on whether someone wants to physically retain the books. I know someone who gets most of his books from charity shops and re donates them when he has read them.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Neely - surely you can fit another bookcase in? When that's full give your books away to potential Oscar Wildes in your classes ... can't do that with a Kindle...


Pop down to John Lewis and try reading one for twenty minutes. (or PC World - though they are very unhelpful - I asked one young geek if I copuld have a reading lamp to test the Kindle thoroughly, he mumbled something about not having a reading lamp and rushed away to reboot a PC...) John Lewis has reading lamps and the staff are patient enough to put up with reasonable requests... The screen was too grey for me, even when using a posh JL lamp...

You're kiding I haven't even got space for another pair of trousers never mind another bookcase. I do like the idea of trying one out for a bit to get the feel of one though.

In terms of reading speeds I don't know about that. I've read something suggesting that reading speeds are quicker on the kindle. I bet there are plenty of opposing articles. This is not a main concern though, I'm more worried about dropping it in the bath - no seriously I am.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Woo hoo, I've just this minute placed an order for it!:banana:

Edit: oh my god, I'm having a strange feeling about it. Seriously I feel very strange about it. What have I done?:eek2:

[Emil Miller]

Woo hoo, I've just this minute placed an order for it!:banana:

Edit: oh my god, I'm having a strange feeling about it. Seriously I feel very strange about it. What have I done?:eek2:

You have talked yourself into taking yet another step into the technology twilight zone.:biggrin5:

I picked up a free paper on a train today and it had an advert for some shiny new bit of technology with the words "You know you want one don't you.?"
I didn't even know what it was, so the answer is: "Oh no I don't."

Hell will freeze over before I let anyone tell me what I want.

[Alexander III]

Hell will freeze over before I let anyone tell me what I want.

You want to keep posting on this thread.

[Emil Miller]

You want to keep posting on this thread.

Well I think it was fairly obvious that I meant 'to buy.'

[LitNetIsGreat]

You have talked yourself into taking yet another step into the technology twilight zone.

In way yes, I have, but in my defence I feel that I had little choice given my space situation. I have been resisting the idea for a while but in the end I had little choice.

Still, I think you have to look to the positives and there are a lot.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindle-Wi-Fi-6-Ink-Display/dp/B0051QVF7A/ref=amb_link_161274487_2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=074KW47BVEZ6S7T7TKWE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=255351527&pf_rd_i=468294

[Seasider]

I had an appointment at my local hospital this afternoon and as usual I took my Kindle in case I had a long wait. Sat down in the waiting area, and blow me, another person came and sat beside me and took out her Kindle and started reading. That's the first time for that.
Anyway as I have said in this thread and others covering the same topic, for me it isn't an either/or issue.As a retired academic I have a large library and when I look at my books they seem to me to be my intellectual autobiography. Because of that I don't want to part with a single one. Whereas with Kindle they are most often impulse buys and I have no hesitation in deleting them when I have finished with them.

[Emil Miller]

Long before DOS and Windows, I was working with a teletype machine that transmitted information to the US for storage on a giant computer in Ohio, and I said to the guy who set it up that I didn't like computers because one day they would replace books and he agreed. Now that it has happened, what will become of bookshops? Will we be going into them only to be greeted by rows and rows of Kindles?

[tonywalt]

Strange, but I'm not the least bit attached to books on my Kindle and my hard drive(10g worth there).

A few years ago I lost a bookcase in a bad hurricane as my first floor was flooded during the tidal surge. I managed to dry out the others(fairly successful). The whole thing was a trauma drama.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Long before DOS and Windows, I was working with a teletype machine that transmitted information to the US for storage on a giant computer in Ohio, and I said to the guy who set it up that I didn't like computers because one day they would replace books and he agreed. Now that it has happened, what will become of bookshops? Will we be going into them only to be greeted by rows and rows of Kindles?

It is desperately sad. I'm afraid many of those bookshops will become chain coffee stores, horrible mobile phones shops and the usual high street stuff. There's still going to be a few of them around for some time but it is the beginning of the end.

[Paulclem]

Have you not seen the resurgernce of classically produced covers on the classic novels? They're making a comeback - I suspect to counter the e-books. I think there'll be space for both. I still want a kindle.

[Emil Miller]

Strange, but I'm not the least bit attached to books on my Kindle and my hard drive(10g worth there).

A few years ago I lost a bookcase in a bad hurricane as my first floor was flooded during the tidal surge. I managed to dry out the others(fairly successful). The whole thing was a trauma drama.

I think this is one of the things that highlights the desensitising aspects of the new technology. With a Kindle there isn't the tactile response that we get from reading hard copy books. When we pick up a book we are handling the same material that the writer used in his manuscript and that gives us an unarticulated but basic connection to the author.

[Paulclem]

I think this is one of the things that highlights the desensitising aspects of the new technology. With a Kindle there isn't the tactile response that we get from reading hard copy books. When we pick up a book we are handling the same material that the writer used in his manuscript and that gives us an unarticulated but basic connection to the author.

This might just be down to habit though. Young people will - are - more used to handling their phones, and so their tactile enjoyment will come from their electronic equipment of choice.

[Scheherazade]

When we pick up a book we are handling the same material that the writer used in his manuscript and that gives us an unarticulated but basic connection to the author.I doubt that is the case anymore. It is quite likely that the authors type their works on computers and send them off to their editors without even printing them out (email, memory sticks and so on).

[Emil Miller]

I doubt that is the case anymore. It is quite likely that the authors type their works on computers and send them off to their editors without even printing them out (email, memory sticks and so on).

I know from my own experience that most agents, at least in the UK, will not accept anything other than the first two typewritten chapters on A4 paper in order not be overwhelmed with thousands of Emails, although, as with everything, there may be exceptions that underline the rule.

[mal4mac]

Woo hoo, I've just this minute placed an order for it!:banana:

Edit: oh my god, I'm having a strange feeling about it. Seriously I feel very strange about it. What have I done?:eek2:

I just ordered a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, so I know exactly how you are feeling!

Don't panic! You can get your money back. You have seven days cooling off, according to internet law, and about a month to return it... I keep telling myself.

I just looked at the latest Kindle in Comet - the screen looked better than I remembered... I'm now tempted again...

Please give us your first experiences Neely, before the seven days is up, and you reach the "I just paid £89 for it, I better like it" moment...

Being able to read all of Chekhov's short stories without paying for all the v. expensive paperbacks is tempting... but more than one gadget a month is excessive (isn't it?)...

[B. Laumness]

Those who have bought a Kindle and have downloaded tons of classics, have you really read them?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I just ordered a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, so I know exactly how you are feeling!

Don't panic! You can get your money back. You have seven days cooling off, according to internet law, and about a month to return it... I keep telling myself.

I just looked at the latest Kindle in Comet - the screen looked better than I remembered... I'm now tempted again...

Please give us your first experiences Neely, before the seven days is up, and you reach the "I just paid £89 for it, I better like it" moment...

Being able to read all of Chekhov's short stories without paying for all the v. expensive paperbacks is tempting... but more than one gadget a month is excessive (isn't it?)...

Yes I know it warms on you. The way I see it is that it would pay for itself within about 6 months easily too, I bet you are tempted by the Complete Works of Dickens for 71p as well? Crazy really. I think there are about a million free classic texts available.

I'm loving returning to Chekhov short stories and plays. I own one short collection, as well as the plays, and I've recently borrowed another shorter collection from the library but I'm fast running out, so it's going to be the first thing I download I expect.

I also like the idea of the built in dictionary facility so that you can look up words as necessarily by simply hovering over it. That and the fact that it is so easy to adjust the font size. Whether it is a sign of age or not but I seem to prefer a slightly larger font than you get in some books.

I'm also interested in the highlight facility. I'm not exactly sure how it works but I think you can highlight passages of text and it stores it somewhere. Useful for tracking interesting passages of text/ideas etc.

I will certainly let you know how I get on with it. I don't know when it is due to arrive though. I suspect that I'll get on fine with it, I've had a quick look at the 'older' version with the keyboard and it seemed fine. Even if I hated it six months down the line it would still go for about £60 second-hand via Amazon sales/ebay, so there's no panic. My main concern still lies with dropping it in the bath, I might have to stick to paper books for my nightly bath reads, see how it goes.

[Paulclem]

Couldn't you get out one of those plastic across the bath soap holder things they used to have in the 70s? Do you remember them? They were like a bridge over the water to keep your soap/ beer/ cloths/ shaving stuff on. I haven't seen one for years, but perhaps they'll make a comeback as Kindle savers.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I never understood why people would prefer e-readers to books either. I love everything about books. I just couldn’t see myself with one. But then a colleague and I were at the airport one day and he took out a Kindle. He demonstrated how it worked, etc. After that I went to do a little research of my own and I was converted. :)

Why do I like it?

The display is really eye-friendly.
It’s light and compact and I can carry it in my already overstuffed handbag.
Buying e-books is so much cheaper and has allowed me to read a larger variety of books. Before I mostly bought fiction books. My budget only allowed for so much so I bought only the books I was almost guaranteed to like. My local public library isn’t very good either, the non-fiction sections are particularly appalling, genre fiction taking most of the very little funding they get. But with my Kindle I can read samples of books before I buy them and when I do, it is so much cheaper that I can afford a few risks.
I can have a whole truck load of books with me at all times. I read according to my mood, so sometimes I’m reading five books at a time. Also, going away for weekends and holidays in past meant a whole extra bag just for my books.
I love the dictionary function.

...and so on.

I still love books, but I read for the stories not the actual pages. I have to be practical; I only have so much space for books, even after giving away about ten to twenty a year. It just made sense to buy a Kindle even though it was expensive (mine was $189 for the keyboard with 3G one, plus $59 for the cover with built-in light, still excluding the shipping and tax. The total was $324). It will pay for itself. I have not regretted buying it once.

I still buy books though. I buy books by my favourite authors, books in a series, and Afrikaans books aren’t always available as e-books either. I really don’t think books will die out soon.


I'm also interested in the highlight facility. I'm not exactly sure how it works but I think you can highlight passages of text and it stores it somewhere. Useful for tracking interesting passages of text/ideas etc.


The highlight function works as follows: You move the cursor to the first word, click and move the cursor to the last word and click again. It then saves it in your My Clippings file that can be accessed from the Home screen. It shows the highlight, from which book and on which page or location, and the time and date on which it was added.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Couldn't you get out one of those plastic across the bath soap holder things they used to have in the 70s? Do you remember them? They were like a bridge over the water to keep your soap/ beer/ cloths/ shaving stuff on. I haven't seen one for years, but perhaps they'll make a comeback as Kindle savers.

Brilliant idea, Dragon's Den material. Yes I remember those vaguely, my dad used to have one. I think it was pink.

Just got a dispatch confirmation email which is sooner than I thought and also a Kindle support email, look at this:


Dear Mr Neely,

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to Amazon Kindle.

We built Kindle with the goal of creating an exceptional and hassle-free reading experience. As such, we wanted to point out a few details before you get started.

Your Kindle is automatically registered to the same Amazon.co.uk account you used to make your purchase. This enables you to shop, purchase, and download books, newspapers and magazines wirelessly from your Kindle straight out of the box.

If you purchased Kindle as a gift for someone else, you should de-register this Kindle from your Amazon.co.uk account. You can de-register Kindle from the Settings page on the device or at Manage Your Kindle on Amazon.co.uk. The gift recipient can then re-register the device to their Amazon.co.uk account from the Settings page on the Kindle.

Visit the Kindle Accessories Store at Amazon.co.uk to shop for great Kindle covers and accessories.

You can start building your library before your Kindle even arrives by shopping for books and periodicals in the Kindle Store at Amazon.co.uk. Amazon's unique wireless delivery system, Amazon Whispernet, will auto-deliver your purchases directly to your Kindle. Once you receive your Kindle, you can also shop the same great selection directly from your device.

Your Kindle content purchases are made using your existing default 1-Click payment method at Amazon.co.uk. To view or change the current payment method associated with your Kindle, please visit Manage Your Kindle at Amazon.co.uk. For general information on 1-Click, please visit the 1-Click section at Amazon.co.uk.

That sounds pretty unbelievable to me. Does this mean that I can just select my books now and they will already be on the device when it arrives? It certainly sounds like that, pretty good indeed.

*Please note I am not on commission for Amazon marketplace or the new Kindle product.*

Edit: oh, I've just seen the above post, thanks for that TS sounds fantastic.

[TurquoiseSunset]

That sounds pretty unbelievable to me. Does this mean that I can just select my books now and they will already be on the device when it arrives?

Yup :D

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yup :D

That's right good. :party:

[Drkshadow03]

You see this is the thing. I've got two bookcases of books, in a small two bedroom house, with piles building up around me, everywhere, and I can't really go on this way. On top of this, when you can have the likes of The Complete Works of Thomas Hardy for 71p, The Works of Maupassant Vol 1 for £0.00 and hundreds of other such things at ridiculous prices/free, instantly there, it doesn't really become an feasible option to keep resisting. It's not like I'm not going to stop reading paper books - it just seems like the obvious move.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-British-Fiction-complete-ebook/dp/B001BMM7ZC/ref=pd_cp_kinc_4

While I am not against digital books, I do think a smart shopper can still find paper books of classics at crazy cheap prices by shopping only at Used bookstores and library sales.

I once went to a good library sale and walked away with something like 25 books for $15.

[LitNetIsGreat]

While I am not against digital books, I do think a smart shopper can still find paper books of classics at crazy cheap prices by shopping only at Used bookstores and library sales.

I once went to a good library sale and walked away with something like 25 books for $15.

That's probably true to some extent. I enjoy hunting around second hand bookshops looking for unexpected goodies, as I suspect many of us do, but also there are times when I want a particular book there and then. Also you can't really beat free for price. It's not just that though it's the space issue for me as well.

As mentioned I'm also interested in using the dictionary and highlight features. Good practice when reading is underlining unfamilar words or phrases and look them up and so on, but to be honest I can't recall doing that for months and months. The dictionary feature will make it easier to do that.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The dictionary feature will make it easier to do that.
It does.

I have a Kindle Touch on pre-order. The 99$ price is insanely cheap.

[Austin Butler]

As part of a generation who has grown up with the internet, personal computers, MP3 players, smart phones, digital readers, etc. I have refrained from buying an e-reader like the Kindle or Nook. My sister has a Nook and loves it for all the same (very legitimate) reasons people have posted here. But personally, I've never enjoyed them. There is something about the printed word that to me an e-book can never capture. The feel of the page, the sound it makes when you turn it, the smell, flipping through the dictionary to find a single definition, the dog-earing and underlining and annotating are all things I love. I like lugging books through the airport, having a pile next to my bed, tripping over them in the night. I have always been able to physically connect with a book and remember where and why I bought it or who bought it for me, when I read it and what I felt. You'll never have a loved one hand you an e-book with an inscription in it (Unless they add that feature, which would be odd.) Then there's the kinship that comes with exchanging books. It makes me feel like I am participating in something that mankind has been doing since the layman could hold a book in their hands and read it. I could go on. Perhaps these are sentimental or archaic reasons for my preference, just like writing snail mail, but they're the reasons I love the printed and written word. When an e-book can recreate the sensation of the tension in your fingers or emit the sound a cover makes when you pull it back for the first time, then I will consider buying one. A page is a depth that poses itself as a surface, it is water.

Regardless of my dislike of e-readers I completely understand WHY people buy them. They have their place and practical purposes. Hopefully they realize their full potential to disseminate knowledge and stories.

[anishastrologer]

paper books definitely. there is nothing as delightful as sitting in a corner and reading a book.

[mal4mac]

That sounds pretty unbelievable to me. Does this mean that I can just select my books now and they will already be on the device when it arrives?

It seems more likely to me that the Kindle will detect your WiFi router and then the download will start automatically - so it might look as if they're already on there.

I'm so backward that I only just got a WiFi router - and it didn't work with the first gadget I tried (a Sony Media Player). I ended up having to hardwire it to the router via ethernet. If you have problems, do not kick the router or the Kindle :brickwall.



As mentioned I'm also interested in using the dictionary and highlight features. Good practice when reading is underlining unfamilar words or phrases and look them up and so on, but to be honest I can't recall doing that for months and months. The dictionary feature will make it easier to do that.

Is the dictionary feature quick to use? I have visions of spend minutes scrolling left and right with the buttons. I'd like to just tap the word and the definition springs up - but Kindle doesn't have a touch screen.

[Emil Miller]

Neely sat eating a cheese sandwich and recalled the days of Hugh Fernley Whittingstall and real bread and cheese as opposed to the cardboard and plastic he was now munching.
How things had changed from those halcyon days when people knew how to enjoy the good things in life. Those were the days of real books with genuine covers and pages, not the metal thing that he now held as he tried to read Oscar Wilde from its illuminated screen. Then there had been bookshops with real books stacked neatly on shelves, waiting for the avid reader’s outstretched hand, but they had gone and all that remained were the rows of Kindles to remind everyone that Big Kindle ruled.
He glanced out of the window at the large poster adorning the wall opposite; it read 'SHAKESPEARE IS RUBBISH! READ HARRY POTTER'. True, Big Kindle still allowed a few of the old classics to remain as examples of the decadent past but now they had mostly been replaced with the ‘new literature'.
Neely put down his kindle and went out into the street, where large hoardings showing pictures of Big Kindle lined the pavement. He made his way through a narrow alleyway to a little shop, and rang the bell that stood on the counter of the deserted room.
A little old man came from a room at the back and greeted him enthusiastically, “How are you Neely? I’ve been waiting for you as I have some interesting volumes that arrived recently.”
He led Neely into the back room and there, piled on chairs and a large table were stacks of books. Neely looked nervously over his shoulder, for to be in the presence of books was forbidden. "How much do you want for this one?” He said as he tenderly handled a copy of Icelandic sagas.
The old man gave a sardonic grin and said, “ Nothing, because you won’t be reading it where you’re going,” and with that, he opened the door to the kitchen and out stepped A.Mazon, the right hand man to Big Kindle.
“You’re going into room 101 for attempting to buy the old literature,” said A.Mazon, taking Neely by the arm and leadings him outside to a waiting car.
When they arrived at the Ministry for Digitalisation, Neely was taken to room 101 where he was strapped into a chair and subjected to his worst nightmare by being forced to listen to the Poet Laureate reading the whole of Harry Potter.
Four days later, he was released and went home to order the latest tome by JK Rowling for his Kindle. Big Kindle had won.
He loved Harry Potter.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Neely sat eating a cheese sandwich and recalled the days of Hugh Fernley Whittingstall and real bread and cheese as opposed to the cardboard and plastic he was now munching.
How things had changed from those halcyon days when people knew how to enjoy the good things in life. Those were the days of real books with genuine covers and pages, not the metal thing that he now held as he tried to read Oscar Wilde from its illuminated screen. Then there had been bookshops with real books stacked neatly on shelves, waiting for the avid reader’s outstretched hand, but they had gone and all that remained were the rows of Kindles to remind everyone that Big Kindle ruled.
He glanced out of the window at the large poster adorning the wall opposite; it read 'SHAKESPEARE IS RUBBISH! READ HARRY POTTER'. True, Big Kindle still allowed a few of the old classics to remain as examples of the decadent past but now they had mostly been replaced with the ‘new literature'.
Neely put down his kindle and went out into the street, where large hoardings showing pictures of Big Kindle lined the pavement. He made his way through a narrow alleyway to a little shop, and rang the bell that stood on the counter of the deserted room.
A little old man came from a room at the back and greeted him enthusiastically, “How are you Neely? I’ve been waiting for you as I have some interesting volumes that arrived recently.”
He led Neely into the back room and there, piled on chairs and a large table were stacks of books. Neely looked nervously over his shoulder, for to be in the presence of books was forbidden. "How much do you want for this one?” He said as he tenderly handled a copy of Icelandic sagas.
The old man gave a sardonic grin and said, “ Nothing, because you won’t be reading it where you’re going,” and with that, he opened the door to the kitchen and out stepped A.Mazon, the right hand man to Big Kindle.
“You’re going into room 101 for attempting to buy the old literature,” said A.Mazon, taking Neely by the arm and leadings him outside to a waiting car.
When they arrived at the Ministry for Digitalisation, Neely was taken to room 101 where he was strapped into a chair and subjected to his worst nightmare by being forced to listen to the Poet Laureate reading the whole of Harry Potter.
Four days later, he was released and went home to order the latest tome by JK Rowling for his Kindle. Big Kindle had won.
He loved Harry Potter.

:lol: Love the dystopian take on the Kindle, ha, ha. I thought it was going to end as I was electrocuted in the bath but never mind. Reading Harry Potter instead of dying in pain is a better end.:shocked:

I know, I know but there is really little option. I've got about another 40 years of reading so unless I come into a large amount of cash and can afford a bigger house and my own library, or I no longer feel the need to want to be able to consult a text again at my own ease, I must get the ereader. Besides there are many benefits as already expressed.

As it happens I'm going to see old Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall tonight talk about vegetables. :party: No seriously I am, I think he is plugging his new book, I'll have to forgo the author signature though, obviously...

I'm sure that there was a gasp of nostalgia when monks changed to paper from cow skin, or when the candle makers lost out to gas and electricity. There is little the individual can do in the way of social evolution, whether we like it or not, it's just like spitting in the wind you can't do anything about it.



Is the dictionary feature quick to use? I have visions of spend minutes scrolling left and right with the buttons. I'd like to just tap the word and the definition springs up - but Kindle doesn't have a touch screen.

I don't know. I think you just move the cursor over the word and job done.

Oh and thinking, I hate the smell of old books as I'm allergic to dust so they make my eyes and my nose stream like mad...

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Neely;1080396 Reading Harry Potter instead of dying in pain is a better end.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm....

[LitNetIsGreat]

Well guess what just dropped through the post about half an hour ago? Woo hoo!!!

First impressions are very promising. Very smart looking device, easy to navigate (even for me) and I've already got used to the features that I'm interested in using such as the dictionary and highlight/notes/bookmark functions. Very promising.

(To use the dictionary function during reading you just simply move the cursor behind the selected word and up hovers the definition, with the option to press to go into a full ramble. Very quick and easy to use.)

I have created my first folder into which I have put my free copies of Dorian Gray and some collected short stories of Maupassant and Chekhov. I'm quite a happy chap.

Apparently there is a three hour charge and then it should be OK for about a month, but it still lets your read/play with it while it is plugged in via the USB cable. Definitely the future of reading. Sorry Emil.

Edit: oh I also love the fact that it automatically remembers where you have been reading. This means that you can have several works on the go, if you want, and there is no fuss in regards to finding your place. No more losing bookmarks too.

[AjaxAscendant]

Well, a balance of both, but being a college student, I've had to depend more on the latter.

[Seasider]

Glad to hear you have received your Kindle and are enjoying it. I got one of the first available in UK and I believe later versions have a longer battery life, but anyway it all depends on how much you use. I dont get much more than a week with mine.
Well Enjoy!

[mal4mac]

Well guess what just dropped through the post about half an hour ago? Woo hoo!!!

First impressions are very promising. Very smart looking device, easy to navigate (even for me) and I've already got used to the features that I'm interested in using such as the dictionary and highlight/notes/bookmark functions. Very promising.

(To use the dictionary function during reading you just simply move the cursor behind the selected word and up hovers the definition, with the option to press to go into a full ramble. Very quick and easy to use.)

I have created my first folder into which I have put my free copies of Dorian Gray and some collected short stories of Maupassant and Chekhov. I'm quite a happy chap.

Apparently there is a three hour charge and then it should be OK for about a month, but it still lets your read/play with it while it is plugged in via the USB cable. Definitely the future of reading. Sorry Emil.

Edit: oh I also love the fact that it automatically remembers where you have been reading. This means that you can have several works on the go, if you want, and there is no fuss in regards to finding your place. No more losing bookmarks too.

Thanks Neely, I'm almost persuaded. I'm still worried about using it 'long term'. But to test that I guess I'll just have to get one!

I just read that the Kindle uses the New Oxford American dictionary, with a choice for the Oxford Dictionary of English. I love my old Concise OED, so the Kindle having its big brother makes it very attractive.

Amazon don't have hundreds of Chekhov short stories for free, I notice. But Project Gutenberg do!

There's some fuss in the Washington Post about 'characters' uploading Chekhov short stories into Amazon from Project Gutenberg and making $ from the efforts of editors working for free. Fortunately Gutenberg has a Kindle option, and Amazon even tells you how to download from Gutenberg.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Neely sat eating a cheese sandwich and recalled the days of Hugh Fernley Whittingstall and real bread and cheese as opposed to the cardboard and plastic he was now munching...
...Four days later, he was released and went home to order the latest tome by JK Rowling for his Kindle. Big Kindle had won.
He loved Harry Potter.

Haha! Brilliant Emil.


Couldn't you get out one of those plastic across the bath soap holder things they used to have in the 70s? Do you remember them? They were like a bridge over the water to keep your soap/ beer/ cloths/ shaving stuff on. I haven't seen one for years, but perhaps they'll make a comeback as Kindle savers.


Well guess what just dropped through the post about half an hour ago? Woo hoo!!! ....

Neely, or to any other bathtub bookies, if you would have held off ordering your Kindle for one more year, the RD department has been developing the "Kindle Kanoe" and Nook is working on the "Nookie Dinghy" complete with dock cleats that attach to the side of the tub for tie off.
Glad to hear you enjoy it.
I've had a Nook for nearly a year now. It is a nifty device. One great advantage over the real McCoy, is the ability to read outside on windy days and not having to worry about pages blowing over. However, I will never give up entirely on paper books for the many reasons Emil and others have cited above, but most of all to satisfy my lust for the smell of old paper. Perhaps e-book RD can add a scratch and sniff feature.

.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Glad to hear you have received your Kindle and are enjoying it. I got one of the first available in UK and I believe later versions have a longer battery life, but anyway it all depends on how much you use. I dont get much more than a week with mine.
Well Enjoy!

Thanks a lot. I wish I had got one sooner now, especially during university, it would have saved me a deal of time and money. Never mind. I'll see how long my lasts on a full battery then, though it obviously varies with how much you use it. However mine was fully charged after about 2 hours and you can just plug it into the back of a computer or laptop so it's not even a bother.


Thanks Neely, I'm almost persuaded. I'm still worried about using it 'long term'. But to test that I guess I'll just have to get one!

I just read that the Kindle uses the New Oxford American dictionary, with a choice for the Oxford Dictionary of English. I love my old Concise OED, so the Kindle having its big brother makes it very attractive.

Amazon don't have hundreds of Chekhov short stories for free, I notice. But Project Gutenberg do!

There's some fuss in the Washington Post about 'characters' uploading Chekhov short stories into Amazon from Project Gutenberg and making $ from the efforts of editors working for free. Fortunately Gutenberg has a Kindle option, and Amazon even tells you how to download from Gutenberg.

Thanks I've just got The Idiot (been wanting to read that for a while) to my kindle from Gutenberg dead easy. Just download to your comp and then email it to your kindle (you get your own kindle email address). Yes the Chekhov short stories I've got for free are smaller collections on Amazon.


Haha! Brilliant Emil.

Neely, or to any other bathtub bookies, if you would have held off ordering your Kindle for one more year, the RD department has been developing the "Kindle Kanoe" and Nook is working on the "Nookie Dinghy" complete with dock cleats that attach to the side of the tub for tie off.
Glad to hear you enjoy it.
I've had a Nook for nearly a year now. It is a nifty device. One great advantage over the real McCoy, is the ability to read outside on windy days and not having to worry about pages blowing over. However, I will never give up entirely on paper books for the many reasons Emil and others have cited above, but most of all to satisfy my lust for the smell of old paper. Perhaps e-book RD can add a scratch and sniff feature.



Oh damn, never mind, I'll just have to use those old fashioned paper things in the bath. How behind the times!!

[B. Laumness]

I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.

[Emil Miller]

I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.

You raise several interesting points. I notice that you are posting from France where the dichotomy between technology and the arts is a major topic of the media. This is understandable because France has become digitalised more noticeably than other European countries and its social impact is proportionately stronger.
I don't think literature is admired anywhere more than in France where it is almost like a religion but, conversely, there are few peoples who have taken to digitalisation with more fervour than the French.
Much of what you say regarding the psychology behind the use of E-readers is true, but the lure of gadgetry, that is constantly being fostered by the companies that produce it, will most likely ensure the eventual disappearance of books.

[Paulclem]

I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.

We live in unprecedented times for both books and technology. This myth of building your own library from a careful consideration of choices is a relatively recent phenomenon. 100 years ago the literacy and finances did not exist for anyone but the well off to achieve. This perpetuated into the 50s and 60s when, whilst there were books available that were cheap enough, the reading habits of the lower classess were still not attuned to what can be possible. In our house we had few books, though luckily by the 70s, they were cheap enough for me to afford with my pocket money.

So we've had 50 years of books being available widely to a reading public, yet I recently read a report on Adult Numeracy where the statistics talked about children in households with less than 20 books being at a serious disadvantage. So there are a statistically significant number of households that have 20 books or less.

In my view anything that does give access to literature and any reading is good, because it won't - in Britain anyway - now be the cost of books, but the habits of reading that preclude collections in houses.

As for philistines and slaves - well there are plenty of owners of e-readers on this forum.

Edit: Oh and don't mention the bugs and stains to the obsessive/compulsives.:biggrin5:

[mal4mac]

I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell...

Yup, a ten year old Penguin smells like a Penguin that has been dead for ten years.

Paperback publishers only have themselves to blame for the Kindle taking over - they should have ploughed some of their excess profits into publishing on acid free paper -and they shouldn't be charging top prices for authors that are in the public domain.



- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;


Easy for rich American to say. Neely and myself are Brits., our houses are tiny 'cause Brit. developers are especially greedy, our wages are small, and the climate is cold. 'Our library' can't usually stretch to more than two bookcases.

The average paperback is no better formatted than a newspaper. I have read excellent hardbacks and didn't feel any important difference between that experience and reading a (new) Wordsworth classic - it's the words that count not typeface or particular brand of dead wood (unless the paper isn't acid free and has been lying around for a few years...)

I'm not more attached to what I paid for - I'm as happy reading Dickens from the library as paying for a Wordsworth classic version.

The Kindle users in this thread aren't idiots. I can't see them downloading tons of free books for the sake of seeing long lists of titles. The complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, are listed on Amazon and the library database. Does that mean you don't know here to start?

[Emil Miller]

I don't think that there was a dearth of books 50 years ago, in fact there were public libraries throughout the cities in the UK, and small towns were often served by commercial libraries run by chain stores and bookshops where it was possible to borrow a book for a nominal fee. There were hardly any books in my childhood home but I had access to a great quantity in the two public libraries that were equidistant from where I lived and I read literally hundreds of books during that time.
As an adult, I began to buy books that had become relatively cheap and kept those that had some literary value: storing them in bookcases while dispensing with the rest. I never bought a book on the strength that it formed part of a collection. It was simply that I wanted to read it and, if it were worth keeping, it went into a bookcase as a matter of course.
For all their obvious advantages, E-readers cannot replicate the sight and physical presence of books. If I go into someones home and see rows of books I can look at them and learn something about the character of the occupant. Whereas a small metal slab tells me nothing except that its owner might be as interested in gadgetry as in the literature that remains hidden within.

[mal4mac]

I agree, I think things were *better* forty/fifty years ago. I also didn't have access to many books at home, but the public library I visited as a child was built into an old manor house, with a reading room that wouldn't have been out of place in Downton Abbey. The books on loan were, mostly, pristine hardbacks - none of the tatty paperbacks that are now omnipresent in libraries. The librarians kept the place silent, and only let me use the adult section after an interview that determined I was ready to read at an adult level, and to use the facilities quietly and with respect. Now libraries are full of mobile phone users, screaming kids, and nosiy librarians (!) The council turned that wonderful library into a cash-cow tourist museum, placed the lending library over a supermarket, ditched the large number of hardbacks for a smaller number of rotting paperbacks, and didn't bother to provide a reading room. The old library was better than a Kindle :), but I wouldn't now dismiss buying a Kindle, you have to move with the times, don't you?

[Scheherazade]

This reminds me of the debate we used to have on emails 15 years ago. Many felt that emails lacked the personal touch of hand-written snail mail and joy of receiving through the post and ladeeda. However, today all of us communicate through emails: who has the time and patience to wait, right?

Having an e-reader does not mean that we should burn our printed books or start making paper planes out of them. Just because ready-made frozen meals are available at the supermarkets, we do not give up cooking, do we? I love cooking and having a cooked meal but always keep couple of ready-made meals in the freezer for "emergencies" and I know that, on more than one occassion, I was grateful that they were there.

It is possible to enjoy both and e-readers are undeniably convenient and clever. Embrace the novelty while still cherishing the tradional.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.



Here is a photograph of one of my bookcases.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2272/s6301388.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/s6301388.jpg/)


All of these are mine, minus half the pile on the left-hand side, which belongs to Mrs Neely. My other bookcase is smaller but just as crammed, in fact more so, with easily about a hundred of my kids’ books in front of rows of other books (more classics and about 50+ Agatha Christie novels).

Of these books there are a handful that I have not read and some that I have only partially read, but I would say that I have read about 95% of them, and some of them more than once (particularly the likes of Shakespeare and Wilde and of course poetry that you dip into from time to time).

Now, of these books I would say that they represent about 10% of what I have read over the last 16 years (I say 16 years because I only started reading at 17 and I am now 33). This is because I have bin bags of books in the loft (most of which are trashy novels from my late teen years and deserve to be in there) but also of course this doesn’t count the hundreds of library books I have read, the books I have given or thrown away, it doesn’t include the secondary literature that I have selectively ploughed through during my university years or the books now hidden on my other bookcase, nor the books on top of my wardrobe, nor the books I have placed on my dad’s smaller bookcase as a “loan”, nor the books that I have lost, or have sat under the chair of this computer, nor the pile downstairs by the sofa, nor on the fridge, nor hidden in stacks of other places etc, etc, you see the point. Now the Kindle, which came yesterday, has the potential to fit all of those in my coat pocket!

I don’t go on about this at all to try and boast in some adolescent manner about how much I have read or have at all, in any way, (in fact the more you have read the less you feel you have read), but rather to try and demonstrate the gravity of my situation when I say that I just don’t have space in my small, two bedroom, terraced council property of which four of us share. I just don’t. I cannot “make space”.

Now with luck I have about another 40 years of reading left in me, so the ereader wins hands down. It’s not even a contest, not even close. I can understand the nostalgia attached to books I really can, but in terms of practicality at least, it’s just not a contest on any level.



[T]herefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.

This I strongly disagree with. Technology, like everything else, is a tool in the hands of the user, to used correctly or abused either way. That same technology that you speak of is the same technology which allows us to express our opinions on here via the internet, (in my opinion one of the greatest achievements of mankind). Why not go back to the typewriter? Tap tap tap ding ding. Or the ink pot? The new technologies are the same instruments of power which allow people, right now, organise things like this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/occupy-protests-europe-london-assange

If there is anything the elites fear to keep their grip on power and wealth it is the new technologies...but back to books.

Seriously, in my opinion paying £8.99 for a rehash of a classic work, with a new front cover and mini introduction, where the author might have been dead more than 150 years, is nothing but a disgrace. There is not liberty there. The liberty comes with the reader being able to access thousands of out of copyright material as and when for free.

This doesn't mean that I'm going to get rid of my books of course (though Mrs Neely would love that). It doesn't mean that I'm not going to return to them again and again, I will, (I will primarily be reading them in the bath) but the Kindle/ereader, is absolutely the future and what a marvellous piece of technology it is too.

[Emil Miller]

I agree, I think things were *better* forty/fifty years ago. I also didn't have access to many books at home, but the public library I visited as a child was built into an old manor house, with a reading room that wouldn't have been out of place in Downton Abbey. The books on loan were, mostly, pristine hardbacks - none of the tatty paperbacks that are now omnipresent in libraries. The librarians kept the place silent, and only let me use the adult section after an interview that determined I was ready to read at an adult level, and to use the facilities quietly and with respect. Now libraries are full of mobile phone users, screaming kids, and nosiy librarians (!) The council turned that wonderful library into a cash-cow tourist museum, placed the lending library over a supermarket, ditched the large number of hardbacks for a smaller number of rotting paperbacks, and didn't bother to provide a reading room. The old library was better than a Kindle :), but I wouldn't now dismiss buying a Kindle, you have to move with the times, don't you?

Yes we have to move with the times, even when they are not propitious, but I will abstain from buying a Kindle as I have just about read enough for my own requirements. I totally agree with the comment about the debasement of public libraries, which now resemble one-stop social help points as much as places for selecting and reading books. The one closest to where I live is housed in a very nice Victorian building which was due to be demolished and replaced with an absolute monstrosity, ironically to include a section for new technology. The current economic crisis has put paid to that thankfully but many libraries are being closed as local authority money begins to dry up and will probably be sold to property developers.



[QUOTE=Neely;1080660] The new technologies are the same instruments of power which allow people, right now, organise things like this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/occupy-protests-europe-london-assange

Or this.
http://youtu.be/grYliexnm0w

As you say, it can be used correctly or abused either way. Let's hope that we never have to go through this again although, the way things are shaping up, it doesn't look too good right now.

[Alexander III]

I have a kindle, and I love it. I am one of those strange people who needs all their books with them at all times - since I travel a lot this with real books is impossible but with a kindle it is the simplest thing.

As to Libraries, in my parents house we have a a library room full of books and with soft couches and armchairs as my mother reads quite a lot, but to be honest I have started to see books as only deco. When I was younger I would buy beautifully bound books with special papers and each page scented. I never actually read them, I only wanted them as objects of beauty in my room like all the statues and flowers and posters which I had in there. With a kindle a book is a book. You read for the book - it is rawer and purer, as with beautiful books I always find myself more interested in the actual physical book than the words. With a kindle I am not distracted by the book and thus can enjoy the literature calmly.

[B. Laumness]

Neely, I have understood your lack of space, and that the Kindle should resolve this problem. But after having bought it, you said: “What have I done?” You felt there was something wrong. You guessed it was not just a matter of place, but that it would change many things.

You are perfectly right to say it is a shame to pay 10 € a classic work in paperback of an author dead 150 years ago.

You said that having access to thousands of books for free was liberty. I don’t speak of that liberty of the consumer, by which one can choose between several goods and possess them; I speak of the liberty by which an individual tries to understand, to evaluate and to act without prejudices, without being influenced by the powers, whether they be economical, political, ideological… Do you think you will be more able to have a critical mind towards the technologies with a Kindle? Will you be in the best disposition to read Jacques Ellul or Theodore Kaczynski if you read them on your screen?

You said the technologies can be used correctly or abused depending on the user. But there are inventions that are intrinsically bad, like the nuclear bomb. That’s not new: Ariosto wanted to throw the firearm in the abyss; for him, this diabolical invention was the ruin of values such as physical courage. Some will reply that you cannot stop the progress. Indeed, the technological society has its own rules that prevent it from reflecting upon the moral impacts of the technologies.

You said the Internet was possibly one the greatest achievements of mankind. I’m not so enthusiastic, although I appreciate many of its possibilities. If I were cynic, I would say the Internet makes the Earth smaller, spreads uniformity and destroys diversity; that it leads to an atomization of the society, each person staying behind his computer; that you find there much garbage and not much gold; that for many people it is a marvellous tool to write crap, to make silly things, to lose time stupidly for instance with video games; that finally, with the Internet, the human beings are shown more than ever in their ugliness and their absurdity.

[Calidore]

My main problem with e-readers is the need for power. Another is the apparent lack of proofreading of e-books; Amazon's comments are loaded with complaints about the huge number of typos in the electronic versions of books.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Neely, I have understood your lack of space, and that the Kindle should resolve this problem. But after having bought it, you said: “What have I done?” You felt there was something wrong. You guessed it was not just a matter of place, but that it would change many things.

You are perfectly right to say it is a shame to pay 10 € a classic work in paperback of an author dead 150 years ago.

You said that having access to thousands of books for free was liberty. I don’t speak of that liberty of the consumer, by which one can choose between several goods and possess them; I speak of the liberty by which an individual tries to understand, to evaluate and to act without prejudices, without being influenced by the powers, whether they be economical, political, ideological… Do you think you will be more able to have a critical mind towards the technologies with a Kindle? Will you be in the best disposition to read Jacques Ellul or Theodore Kaczynski if you read them on your screen?

You said the technologies can be used correctly or abused depending on the user. But there are inventions that are intrinsically bad, like the nuclear bomb. That’s not new: Ariosto wanted to throw the firearm in the abyss; for him, this diabolical invention was the ruin of values such as physical courage. Some will reply that you cannot stop the progress. Indeed, the technological society has its own rules that prevent it from reflecting upon the moral impacts of the technologies.

You said the Internet was possibly one the greatest achievements of mankind. I’m not so enthusiastic, although I appreciate many of its possibilities. If I were cynic, I would say the Internet makes the Earth smaller, spreads uniformity and destroys diversity; that it leads to an atomization of the society, each person staying behind his computer; that you find there much garbage and not much gold; that for many people it is a marvellous tool to write crap, to make silly things, to lose time stupidly for instance with video games; that finally, with the Internet, the human beings are shown more than ever in their ugliness and their absurdity.

Yes my initial shock after placing the order is a clear testimony to just how much we cling on to old habits and misplaced nostalgia. It seems so silly. When first placed the order did I feel like I had had an affair or ate at McDonald's. When it arrived however, and now after 24 hours with it, I am very much a Kindle/ereader convert and only wish I had bought it sooner. It’s absolutely one the best items I have ever bought.

It terms of being able read critically free from prejudice, I say no more, no less. It makes no difference. It is completely immaterial to me whether the print is traditional or e-ink. It’s pretty impossible as it is, and always has been, for the individual to live in a social vacuum free from political, economic or ideological prejudices. The ereader and the technology behind it does nothing to change that. There is also nothing in the Amazon mission statement of wanting to get every book ever written downloadable within 60 seconds, to suggest that they want to force you to read Harry Potter!

Yes absolutely, technology is a tool in the hands of the user. Intrinsically it is neither good nor bad – it is just a tool. The user of the ereader can, as you said earlier, download thousands of books and not properly read any of them. Or, the careful and dedicated reader can use the Kindle, or other device, to gain access to those same books and read and study them with fervour. The device is just the medium. As ever, it is human nature and the individual, which makes that choice. It is not technology that makes human beings ugly or absurd, as you say, but human beings themselves. By the same standard, people are using technology to do beautiful and noble things.



My main problem with e-readers is the need for power. Another is the apparent lack of proofreading of e-books; Amazon's comments are loaded with complaints about the huge number of typos in the electronic versions of books.

Well I’m not sure how long a full charge is going to last. Anywhere from a week to a month I’ve read. But the process of charging seems to take about 2 hours and you just plug it into the back of your computer using the USB provided and job done. You can even buy a standard plug adaptor if you wish. In terms of typos I suspect that some will be better than others, but I’m sure overall they will improve rapidly as the demand for ereaders inevitably increase.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Another is the apparent lack of proofreading of e-books; Amazon's comments are loaded with complaints about the huge number of typos in the electronic versions of books.
This really is a problem, and gets quite annoying. Not only are there typos, but missing indentations for paragraphs and other formatting errors.

[mal4mac]

The "typo problem" is a real problem.

You can find properly edited paperback classics new for £1.99, and you can buy 44 of those for the price of a Kindle!

It's difficult to see which Kindle editions are properly edited, or just thrown together by some geek.

[B. Laumness]

As long as there will not professional sub-editors for these electronic editions, this will be another good reason not to buy a Kindle or a device of that kind.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I usually read the reviews of the Kindle editions, many reviewers will mention bad editing or formatting.

Usually though, if it's a free edition I don't mind giving it a try if it doesn't have any reviews yet. If it's really terrible I just delete it. It's not like I lose any money and I can then write a review warning others.

[mal4mac]

I usually read the reviews of the Kindle editions, many reviewers will mention bad editing or formatting.

Usually though, if it's a free edition I don't mind giving it a try if it doesn't have any reviews yet. If it's really terrible I just delete it. It's not like I lose any money and I can then write a review warning others.

Are Amazon reviewers trustworthy? The geek uploaders might be reviewing themselves - or a competitor might be giving them an undeserved trashy review.

What if it's not obviously terrible? For instance you might download Oscar Wilde's "complete letters" with many letters missing, or some not involving Oscar Wilde at all!

There needs to be someone with a job & reputation to lose doing the quality control, that is an editor an established publishing house. And that means you have to pay for it - and don't good editors deserve to be paid?

By downloading books for free you are putting good editors & publishers out of a job.

[TurquoiseSunset]

Are Amazon reviewers trustworthy? The geek uploaders might be reviewing themselves - or a competitor might be giving them an undeserved trashy review.

Obviously that happens and with books too. If I read one review complaining of formatting, spelling, omissions, etc. then I don't download the book. If there aren't any reviews about that then I assume a 50/50 chance of it being badly edited.


What if it's not obviously terrible? For instance you might download Oscar Wilde's "complete letters" with many letters missing, or some not involving Oscar Wilde at all! There needs to be someone with a job & reputation to lose doing the quality control, that is an editor an established publishing house. And that means you have to pay for it - and don't good editors deserve to be paid?

What if this, what if that... If you worry about something like that you can always research his letters (for example), download a free sample (in case the Kindle version you want costs something) and check the table of contents. You can also "Look Inside" of the book versions at the table of contents to see how they match up. Or you can just buy the Penguin or Wordsworth Kindle version... It's up to you.


By downloading books for free you are putting good editors & publishers out of a job.

I'm not putting anyone out of a job downloading pre-1923 books for free. And if I download the free version of a contemporary book, published on Amazon by the author, it would usually be that the book was published by the author on Amazon, because they had a hard time getting it published...

[mal4mac]

.... Or you can just buy the Penguin or Wordsworth Kindle version...

I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them. Penguin do, but they are expensive. The Kindle version of Penguin's "Arabian Nights" is £15.99, while the paperback is £11.37!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes some of the pricing for Kindle books are crazy, but you have to off-set that by the fact that there are so many available for free on Amazon and Project Guttenburg.

In terms of the formatting/typos I think it is not ideal but not necessarily the end of the world either. If there is a major problem with a book your have purchased Amazon will refund you in full. If it is a free book then you have wasted 10 seconds downloading it, try again and move on. It is worth remembering that it is still only early days and these minor issues are bound to improve.

I remember that I was put off for first going on the internet as it sounded like too much hassle and I could get all the information I needed from books! (On that I have just had to order another laptop as my very old one has finally died. :angel: There goes another £360+...ouch...expensive month.)

Anyway, I've have had a good opportunity to use the Kindle over the last few days - despite another busy, crazy week, and I would still very much recommend it. It's very neat and easy to read from and I've had no major problems at all. The only gripe about the new Kindle is that the highlight facility is not perfect and the text style pop-up keyboard wouldn't be suitable for writing long notes. This is because the keyboard has been dropped in the new Kindle to save space and to reduce cost. My minor gripe with the highlight function is that you cannot delete a highlighted note in the "My Clippings" section (the folder where all your highlights go). This I feel is a fault as surely it wouldn't be hard to add a delete function. You can delete the highlight within the book, but not within the My Clippings.

However, for reading from the Kindle, which is after all the main thing, it is very good thing, even easier than reading books (especially laid in bed) and of course the fact that it is so easy to download tons of books into one little device, means that it is a real winner for my money.

[Serena03]

Although I still prefer and appreciate the tradition of a tangible book, I recently went with a Kindle for the sake of cost, I cannot afford additional books anymore nor do I have the room.

For the most part Kindle will still let you do most of what you can with a regular book such as, take notes, save pages, highlight and skip ahead; however, it's all electronic of course so you are relying on a hard drive to save all your work which could malfunction at any time. I'm already on my second Kindle due to some e-ink explosions on the screen. And it is true about some of the formatting with typos and pages missing, although I don't see it happen too frequently. At least with a regular book you feel more complacent with getting the whole of the book, but they can have their typos as well. I have over 400 books on my Kindle, already finished at least a quarter of them, and I haven't paid for one of them so I'm not going to complain much is some of the formatting and editing is a bit off. I don't usually upgrade with the times much if I'm still satisfied with what I already have. The new Kindle Fire is suppose to be in competition with the iPad which I don't see myself getting since I don't need most of what it offers. Technology is meant to manipulate and regulate people for the sake of empowerment. Good ol' traditions don't have to be obsolete if they are still 'traditionlized.'

[TurquoiseSunset]

I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them.

I just saw Modern Library versions of classics as well (I made a mistake regarding Wordsworth).


My minor gripe with the highlight function is that you cannot delete a highlighted note in the "My Clippings" section (the folder where all your highlights go). This I feel is a fault as surely it wouldn't be hard to add a delete function. You can delete the highlight within the book, but not within the My Clippings.

That is something I don't like either. I would also like to be able to jump to the quote in the book from My Clippings.

[Alexander III]

I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them. Penguin do, but they are expensive. The Kindle version of Penguin's "Arabian Nights" is £15.99, while the paperback is £11.37!

Wordsworth dont do Kindle, because they only use pre-copywrite texts and translations - so every book of theirs you can get free with a kindle.

[mal4mac]

Wordsworth dont do Kindle, because they only use pre-copywrite texts and translations - so every book of theirs you can get free with a kindle.

Not true. Wordsworth have modern translations of some authors - like Goethe.

Even the pre-copywrite text still needs an editor, otherwise you get the typo (and other) problems that are being talked about in this thread. The Wordsworth classics also, usually, have an academic giving an overview of the text. So you get a lot for your £1.99. Also - penguin publish pre-copywrite texts - at a much higher price point.


The only gripe about the new Kindle is that the highlight facility is not perfect...

I can't imagine highlighting being easier than using a pencil - and highlighting is essential to me when reading authors that I want to re-read frequently, but not all of it! (Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Montaigne,... most factual authors actually)

So I guess "novels" is the only reason I have for buying it - and the library & Wordsworth provide me with almost all of what I desire in free/cheap/edited/ throwable versions - probably work out cheaper than a Kindle (knowing me I'd probably drop it just after the guarantee date, and they are easily broken! And what about the electricity cost?) And I can read 10% more novels :)



For the most part Kindle will still let you do most of what you can with a regular book such as, take notes, save pages, highlight and skip ahead; however, it's all electronic of course so you are relying on a hard drive to save all your work which could malfunction at any time...

I remember reading somewhere that Amazon were thinking of becoming cloud based so you would at least be able to download the books again - but your highlighting is in danger unless they put that in the cloud as well (like Google Docs...)

Has anyone found any features like that?

I have books with pencil highlighting that are twenty years old - they haven't crashed and I haven't had to think about backing them up.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I remember reading somewhere that Amazon were thinking of becoming cloud based so you would at least be able to download the books again - but your highlighting is in danger unless they put that in the cloud as well (like Google Docs...)

Has anyone found any features like that?

I have books with pencil highlighting that are twenty years old - they haven't crashed and I haven't had to think about backing them up.

Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle. It also means that you can delete a text and then download it again if you wish (for free). This could be to save space if 1,500 novels worth on the new version, or 2,500 novels on the old version is not enough. It means you can have an unlimited online personal library.

£1.99 is cheap but if you times that by 1,500 it is not so. Maybe if I had bought the Kindle 5 years ago (if it were around) I would now be looking forward to a holiday in the Med during half-term, who knows?

The highlight facility is not good for making extensive notes. It wouldn't do for serious study, however it is perfect for little "oh that's interesting" moments. This is what I'll be using it for.

The dictionary facility I'm finding is really useful and the general feel of the Kindle is fantastic, it is a joy to read from.

So, overall I would still recommend it very much. Also remember it is not an either or, you can still use a Kindle and a pencil, just as you can still use a pen and a computer.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle. It also means that you can delete a text and then download it again if you wish (for free). This could be to save space if 1,500 novels worth on the new version, or 2,500 novels on the old version is not enough. It means you can have an unlimited online personal library.
It also means you don't really own any of your books. Amazon could just decide to delete your whole library if the fancy struck them, and even though I haven't read it, there's undoubtedly legal text that allows them to do this without any more repercussions than angry customers. I don't think this will happen, but that doesn't stop me from keeping the wi-fi turned off at all times I'm not downloading a book--besides, it saves battery power. I don't know if the G3 connectivity can be turned off (I just get the wi-fi enabled), but I assume it can. Still, one could get uber-paranoid and conject that Amazon may have the ability turn on the G3, or even wi-fi, remotely any time they want.

There is another positive to e-books and e-readers no one has mentioned in this thread (I think), and that is that they can be quite helpful to the physically disabled, like me. I often find large, paper-or-hardback books cumbersome and a pain to handle (sometimes small, tightly bound paperbacks are even worse), whereas a Kindle or its like is small, light, and easy to handle and hold.

[Mr.lucifer]

I recommend this free program called Calibre. It allows you to format you e-books and convert them so you can read on any device or program.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Two weeks into the Kindle now and I wouldn't look back for a second. Prefer it to reading normal books to be honest. Highly recommended all round.

Mrs Neely has borrowed it to read Idiot Abroad - The Travel Diaries of Karl Pilkington (very funny and recommended too) and it has also got a positive press from her. Easier in your hand and neat to carry around. Go buy.

[Abookinthebath]

I have just popped my ebook cherry, but on my android phone. I'm not 100% convinced, but I love some of the features, like looking up a word and the bookmarking - very handy! And surprisingly more readable than I thought it was going to be.

I think I might see if Santa can sort me out with a Kindle.......

[mal4mac]

I think the e-ink on the Kindle is far better than a phone screen, but I'm still not convinced about moving into ebooks. I just ordered a Wordsworth classics copy of Walter Scott's Ivanhoe, for £1.99 that comes with extensive notes and a scholarly introduction. On reading reviews of the free Kindle edition, which has no notes, people are complaining that "many words are not in the dictionary" - never mind the possible typos due to lack of paid editors & scholarly reviewers.

[Abookinthebath]

I think the e-ink on the is far better than a phone screen, but I'm still not convinced about moving into ebooks. I just ordered a Wordsworth classics copy of Walter Scott's Ivanhoe, for £1.99 that comes with extensive notes and a scholarly introduction. On reading reviews of the free Kindle edition, which has no notes, people are complaining that "many words are not in the dictionary" - never mind the possible typos due to lack of paid editors & scholarly reviewers.


Yes, I have seen the e-ink - much better. But it's good that you can give the experience a try without forking out £100.

I have noticed a few typos on both books I have read this way, but it was not bad enough to put me off. And the lookup function worked through Wikipedia and Google on my version and worked a treat.

I think though, that £1.99 for all that is a positive bargain!! Just a pity that you have to wait for delivery instead of downloading it in seconds!

[mal4mac]

Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle.

Thanks for that information - good to see Amazon have now got their act together with this. I wish they had a Spotify model, though - imagine paying £10 a month and reading whatever you wanted! I'd buy a Kindle then...

How Long will it take you to read 1500 books, many the length of "Bleak House"!?

By using the library, buying the cheapest paperbacks from charity shop, ebay, closing down sales, etc., you can really keep the costs down. By selling them again on Amazon Marketplace, you could even make a profit!

Actually, Neely, there's a definite gap in the market here for an enterprising Kindle scholar - fix the typos and add notes to (say) the free Oscar Wilde versions, and sell the complete Oscar for whatever the market will bear - you'd only have to beat the silly Penguin prices (to start with...) Who knows? You might get a Med. holiday out of it :thumbsup:

[mal4mac]

Yes, I have seen the e-ink - much better. But it's good that you can give the experience a try without forking out £100.


There's a nice review of varuous e-readers by the founder of Project Gutenberg on the Gutenberg site -he actually recommends the approach you are taking - by combining a lot of function in one device you can really keep the costs down. He argues that having it on a phone like this makes it more likely you will read more - you'll always have it with you and you'll be able to read at odd moment s of the day. By just reading in spare five minutes, here an dthere, yo will not suffer much of the tiredness that comes from non-e-ink.

I'm such an old fashioned bibliophile, though, that I'm much more likely to have a paperback with me than a mobile phone :)

I'd also be worried about muggers mistaking my Kindle for a fancy iphone - I'm unlikely to be mugged for my Wordsworth classic...

[Abookinthebath]

There's a nice review of varuous e-readers by the founder of Project Gutenberg on the Gutenberg site -he actually recommends the approach you are taking - by combining a lot of function in one device you can really keep the costs down. He argues that having it on a phone like this makes it more likely you will read more - you'll always have it with you and you'll be able to read at odd moment s of the day. By just reading in spare five minutes, here an dthere, yo will not suffer much of the tiredness that comes from non-e-ink.

I'm such an old fashioned bibliophile, though, that I'm much more likely to have a paperback with me than a mobile phone :)

I'd also be worried about muggers mistaking my for a fancy iphone - I'm unlikely to be mugged for my Wordsworth classic...



I tend to agree with the Gutenberg view - I have found myself reading at odd moments because it is on my phone!

But I do like the touch, smell and feel of a book - as you say, no-one is going to mistake a book for something that you can sell in the pub to pay for drugs!

I'm keeping myself on the fence on this one....for now....:)

[LitNetIsGreat]

I have just popped my ebook cherry, but on my android phone. I'm not 100% convinced, but I love some of the features, like looking up a word and the bookmarking - very handy! And surprisingly more readable than I thought it was going to be.

I think I might see if Santa can sort me out with a Kindle.......

Yes I think you would be very happy with it if you got one. Also if you read on your phone there is a setting which allows to sync it with your kindle so that it remembers where you are on both devices. Pretty neat, but the new kindle is very small and fits into my coat pocket so you would probably read on the kindle anyway. Yes the e-ink on the kindle is spot on too.


Thanks for that information - good to see Amazon have now got their act together with this. I wish they had a Spotify model, though - imagine paying £10 a month and reading whatever you wanted! I'd buy a Kindle then...

How Long will it take you to read 1500 books, many the length of "Bleak House"!?

By using the library, buying the cheapest paperbacks from charity shop, ebay, closing down sales, etc., you can really keep the costs down. By selling them again on Amazon Marketplace, you could even make a profit!

Actually, Neely, there's a definite gap in the market here for an enterprising Kindle scholar - fix the typos and add notes to (say) the free Oscar Wilde versions, and sell the complete Oscar for whatever the market will bear - you'd only have to beat the silly Penguin prices (to start with...) Who knows? You might get a Med. holiday out of it :thumbsup:

Amazon don't set the prices for many of the ebooks on there though, the publishers do, so there's no way that a pay per month thing would work. Besides if you're reading classics they're free anyway.

In terms of overall cost though, not to mention the practicalities, space etc, etc, you still can't beat the kindle. Yes you can get good deals by scratching around but I prefer the instant download with no fuss to be honest. I also like the function where you can read a free sample of any book before, I think that's a good idea.

Yes I can see a gap in the market with fixing the odd typo and sticking in a bit of bumf in, I wonder if that sort of thing would be possible?

[Drkshadow03]

So I have a Kindle now. I mostly interested in getting free classics. Has anyone found there are a lot of typos and weird formatting issues with many of the Kindle downloads on archive.org? What sites are people using to download free classics to their Kindle? How do they feel about the quality of the free downloaded books? And what books have you all actually downloaded for free?

Has anyone paid for e-books and what did you think of the quality of those?

[mal4mac]

Yes I can see a gap in the market with fixing the odd typo and sticking in a bit of bumf in, I wonder if that sort of thing would be possible?

Why not try it? Try one of Oscar's more popular short works and see how it goes... You could start with the Project Gutenberg text version, add "bumpf" and corrections, and then generate Kindle files (with good formatting!)

[Chris1991]

I have a ebook reader and its way better reading my ebooks from it rather then the screen, and i can carry a whole library with me

[LitNetIsGreat]

Why not try it? Try one of Oscar's more popular short works and see how it goes... You could start with the Project Gutenberg text version, add "bumpf" and corrections, and then generate Kindle files (with good formatting!)

Knowing me though I'd probably make the typos worse.


So I have a Kindle now. I mostly interested in getting free classics. Has anyone found there are a lot of typos and weird formatting issues with many of the Kindle downloads on archive.org? What sites are people using to download free classics to their Kindle? How do they feel about the quality of the free downloaded books? And what books have you all actually downloaded for free?

Has anyone paid for e-books and what did you think of the quality of those?

Good move in getting the kindle. I honestly think that the complaints about the formating are exaggerated and mostly unfounded. This is especially so with prose. Poetry I've found has not been as good, but I've only downloaded a few bits of poetry compared with much more prose, short stories/novels and non-fiction and I've been very happy with them.

In terms of getting the free classics I either go direct to Amazon or from Project Gutenberg. I've paid small amounts for some of the non-fiction pieces and they have been equally good (besides if you pay and the formating is poor you can request your money back and Amazon will do that no problems).

If I was you I would take advantage of the free samples direct from Amazon. This is a great idea they have put in place and works well.

[PlainSkeptic]

So I have a Kindle now. How do they feel about the quality of the free downloaded books?

Has anyone paid for e-books and what did you think of the quality of those?

I have a Nook. The free Ebooks from the Barnes and Noble site to be filled with typos, often to the point that reading to too frustrating to continue. Maybe the file is corrupted during transfer to the Barnes and Noble's Web servers. I recommend getting free eBooks from other sites.

I have purchased eBooks for both the Kindle and the Nook. (I now read on my Android smartphone.) They are virtually typo free.