Heathcliff and Edgar

[jackcoldrick]

hello everyone, I have just come towards the end of emily brontes wuthering heights and i must admit so far it has been quite an adventure, i really did enjoy it. however i am due to sit an exam on wuthering heights in june of this year and therefore i am trying to understand the book and its carachters to the full....

That is why i am here, you see i have just read chapter 21 and noticed that when cathy bumped into here uncle heathcliff with nelly while searching for game all was revealed, she discovered the whereabouts of her cousin linton and also the hidden history of her father and his wife, her mother catherine.

Heathcliff seems to twist the tale to such a degree that he is infact the victim of edgars narrow mind and fiery temper. At first i opposed this as from what i gathered edgar seemed to be the victim, but that made me think...edgar was quite bitter and resentful towards heathcliff after catherine came to live in the grange, and i feel heathcliff was treated somewhat unfairly. On the other side of the coin Edgar had to endure a man he hated wedding his sister out of spite.

i guess what i am asking is, who out of the two is the victim and why. Is it heathcliff or is it Edgar linton??

Appriciate any light anyone has to shine on the issue.

Jack

[Nossa]

I think we should regard both of them as victims. Heathcliff was the victim of an unfair social system, that made him cut off from the love of his life and treated him like an inferior. Edgar was a victim for the same system, as he suffered from the revenge of Heathcliff, who regarded him as the representative of the unjustice done towards him.

[LadyW]

Terribley sorry to divert the conversation topic from your question... but, in reading the book, did you develop any sort of attatchment to any character whatsoever? And, did you feel that they were ever so slightly melodramatic?
The constant weeping really irritated me...
It's a fantastic book, but I did find the characters aggravating.

[Nossa]

I'm not sure if you're asking me or the topic's starter, but I personally hated the book. I didn't develop any sort of attatchment, maybe except for hatred, to the characters. The only one I felt sorry for was Catherine Linton. I think that most of the reactions of the characters were just too much. Lots of weeping, shouting, deaths and just too much drama.

[LadyW]

I'm not sure if you're asking me or the topic's starter, but I personally hated the book. I didn't develop any sort of attatchment, maybe except for hatred, to the characters. The only one I felt sorry for was Catherine Linton. I think that most of the reactions of the characters were just too much. Lots of weeping, shouting, deaths and just too much drama.
Exactly, the whole lot of them were lamenting over the slightest thing until it became ridiculous, then unmeaningful...
Yes, Catherine Linton is perhaps the only character I did like, but even she was occasionally rather odious.

[jackcoldrick]

In my opinion Catherine is the most self centered character in the novel. I find it is constantly about her and her needs. She doesnt seem to take into account the damage she inflicts on others. Some would argue how come she was so distraught when heathcliff left...well how come she didnt chase him out into the night? and ultimatley he was the 'cruel' one for leaving. She seems to blame heathcliff for her marriage to edgar. She doesnt seem to know what she wants, but at the same time she feels she is the centre of the universe. what do you guys think?

[LadyW]

Some would argue how come she was so distraught when heathcliff left...well how come she didnt chase him out into the night? and ultimatley he was the 'cruel' one for leaving.
Yes, absolutely... I fully agree with you there, I found her most irritating... So dramatic and self-important.
A little off the point, I really did want to hit Joseph over the head with a shovel... couldn't understand a damn word the man said and even when I did - I still wanted to knock his lights out.

[jackcoldrick]

hahaha exactly, joseph drove me crazy, i mean his accent is dreadful and his mannerisms are so annoying. Who does he think he is....master of the heights. Do you think he gros closer to heathcliff when heathcliff matures??

[LadyWentworth]

They are saying that they like Edgar and Catherine's daughter best.

As for it being melodramatic, I only felt that way about Catherine. Sure, Heathcliff could get dramatic, I suppose, but I felt his reaction to situations were more of passion and heartbreak rather than just being melodramatic. Catherine....Well, I won't say what I consider her to be! :) I will just say that if there was anyone in that entire story that was melodramatic and irritating, it was Catherine Earnshaw.

I do agree with Nossa that both Edgar and Heathcliff were victims. Yes, I think Heathcliff was a victim of society, especially by way of Catherine. If Edgar was a victim of society, sure it happened because of how Heathcliff treated him, which happened because of how Heathcliff was treated. Yet again, though, it all stems back to Catherine. It wouldn't have been this way if she hadn't been so selfish. I think she was the reason for any unhappiness that both of the men experienced in their lives. So, they were victims of circumstance by way of Catherine Earnshaw.

That is just how I feel about it.

[LadyW]

As for it being melodramatic, I only felt that way about Catherine. Sure, Heathcliff could get dramatic, I suppose, but I felt his reaction to situations were more of passion and heartbreak rather than just being melodramatic. Catherine....Well, I won't say what I consider her to be! :) I will just say that if there was anyone in that entire story that was melodramatic and irritating, it was Catherine Earnshaw.

Despite being the protagonistic villain of the whole book, I suppose Heathcliff is one of my favourite characters.
Catherine Earnshaw irritated me beyond believe, I found her generally annoying, selfish, whiney and childish - not to mention dramatic.
I also developed an abhorrance towards Linton himself (Catherine's Cousin/Husband - whats up with that?), he was a match for Catherine Earnshaw! He was intolerabley pathetic and I was rather relieved when he made his exit...

[PaulT]

An important thing that is often forgotten is that Catherine (the elder) was young, being only 15 when Heathcliff ran away and 18 when she died. If you keep thinking of her as a rather immature teenager, her actions and attitudes seem a bit more understandable.

[jackcoldrick]

thank you very much for all the replies in relation to my questions. I do however have a lot more which need answering and i am putting them up in new threads. If you would like to search for them :

Q. Who is the victim and why in the bitter dispute between Edgar linton and Heathcliff?

Q. Heathcliff is set on becoming master of thrushcross grange in order to execute revenge on Edgar linton. Could someone please describe Heathcliffs plan to me and how exactly he goes about in and also how Edgar linton reacts and attempts to fail his evil plan.

Q. Just in relation to Wuthering heights, Could everyone please talk a little bit about their favourite point or key moment in the book and why they liked it.

Q. Heathcliff and Hareton have a close relationship in Wuthering heights. Am I right in saying so and could someone please elaborate on the topic.

Q. Is there similarities both Physical and Mental between the parents and their offspring in wuthering heights...i.e Catherine linton and Cathy Linton, Heathcliff and Linton etc.

Q. Could someone please describe the relationship between Heathcliff and his son linton and why he hates him so.

Q. Is Nelly a reliable narrator throughout the text and why?

please answer these questions for me if you could as i have exams at the end of may and will be expected to understand the novel and I am very interested in the book itself. Thank you.

[jackcoldrick]

also could someone please tell me how i go about setting up a new thread as i cannot find the option to do so thanks:)

[FDarcy]

Did you actually read the novel? I cant believe how you actually expect other people to do your work for you. This is a discussion forum - not an answering service! Should you not have opinions of your own? What good is a degree if you did not earn it for yourself?

[jackcoldrick]

to begin with yeah i did read the novel and I enjoyed it very very much. Secondly I am not doing an english degree I am an irish 6th yr student who has to study the novel for my exam in june, i am not in college, i am in school, and in order to understand it fully i decided to ask a few questions. If you look at most of the posts in this forum they are questions, i am curious, i want to know more. I thought i would search for help in the one place i felt i could get it a literature forum where people can discuss literature! to be honest i am shocked by your ignorance and find it quite pathetic, i am sure anyone who reads this post will agree with me when I say that. and how dare you accuse me of not reading the novel and doing my best, i read that book through and through it was tough but i preservered.

[Quinn_]

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[jackcoldrick]

you know something......what ever guys, to be honest i dont care, now that i think of it i dont need to know it in that level of detail, i read the book, u enjoyed the book and though i didnt understand everything i understodd the main concept, and i got my englih paper back today and guess what i passed without all your ****ing help, and im so happy! i dont even care anymore!!!! I must thank you for the compliment!! The fact that you thought the questions i pulled from my own mind stemmed as you so nicely put it from my teachers own questionnaire is pretty comforting, if i can ask such questions i can find such answers. Thank you! :)

[LadyW]

I think perhaps you have misunderstood. Jack, am I right in thinking you posed these specific questions in order to gather opinions from different points of view in order to broaden your mind and consider different things? I doubt he was attempting to get an essay from us all; don't be so hard on him. Welldone on the pass! What was your grade?

[jackcoldrick]

Hey, really appriciate what you said, but yeah seriously i am not trying to get an essay done at all! Ok im looking for opinions which will ultimatley form an essay in my exams but the questions are purely out of interest and they were bugging me, also i will stress my english teacher isnt eeeeaxctly the most motivated man in the world! Oh and i got a C2 which is brilliant as far as i am concerned! so all is looking good, and for the record wuthering heights only made up a segement of that grade and it wouldnt be worth the trouble of coming online and trying to get people to do my essays! i passed im delighted! wooooohooooooo

[defeated]

actually......the book is fantastic....it does have too much drama at certain points but.....I think that excess of drama adds it a lot because it is a constant pull towards the book....I did feel repulsed by many of the characters in a lot of the times but I still love it because the excess of emotions is completely intentional and the author wants to create that repulsion of the characters from the readers it's brillint because she doesn't say too much but lets the reader form its one hatred....about the characters they're both victims and I am only able to see Catherine(the mother) as the one who makes them be victims because she constantly plays with their love and makes them opose each other in order to raise her ego

[defeated]

oh and hey.....don't pay attention to that sort of comments posted after all... you choose if you do or don't want to ask a certain question and if somebody doesn't like it well....honestly....they don't have to they can just not enter the forum you started it's as simple as that....congratulations on your grade by the way!!!

[SleepyWitch]

An important thing that is often forgotten is that Catherine (the elder) was young, being only 15 when Heathcliff ran away and 18 when she died. If you keep thinking of her as a rather immature teenager, her actions and attitudes seem a bit more understandable.

I think she's 15 when Edgar proposes to her but they don't get married until three years later. so she'd be 18 when she gets married and 21 when she dies. but I suppose your point is still valid.