Common Misconceptions About Atheism

[mayneverhave]

I decided to start this thread, not as an attack on religious groups, religiously minded people, theists, etc., but to inform. Throughout my life I've had many accusations and assumptions made about my personal atheistic stance, that I thought I'd like to inform people, for once and for all, the tenements of atheism, and common "myths".

1. Atheists deny the existence of God

It is a widely held belief among a large portion of the population that an atheist believes that God does not exist. This is close, but not entirely correct. There exists a difference between two kinds of atheism, one of which strong, or explicit, atheism, outright denys that (a) God exists, and does so on any number of grounds (philosophical, scientific, mathematical, etc.). This explicit denial is in comparison to weak, or implicit, atheism, which does not outright reject the existence of God. Weak atheists merely lack the belief in a God, and do not make a claim as to whether he cannot, or does not, exist. This is an important distinction that many are unaware of. For instance, children are born weak atheists, not having a belief in god, while also not disbelieving in god. Often, members of the community, whether it be family, priests, monks, or friends, introduce a belief in God(s) to the child, instilling in the child a firm belief in religion (most often the religion of the parents).

This means that agnosticism, the uncertainty as to whether God exists or not, is a type of atheism. I for one, cannot explicitly deny the existence of God, just as I cannot deny the existence of unicorns or aliens. Belief is based on proof.

It should also be noted that, mostly everyone is in some way an atheist. Although Christians belief in the "one-true" God, they deny the existence of the Hindu panthenon, thereby making them atheistic towards the gods of the Hindu religion. This is often mishandled in discussion.

2. Atheists do not believe in anything

This is implying something about a person that is not explicit in their label as an atheists. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, not the lack of belief in anything. That could be referred to as nihilism; and although some atheists are also nihilists, this is not always the case (just like not all rectangles are squares).

Many atheists believe in a number of things, ranging from ghosts, clairvoyance, weiji boards, etc. The only thing the term atheist says about them is that they do not believe in a god.

3. Atheists are evil

This is kind of a ridiculous statement, and one which requires a definition for "evil", which of course, there isn't one. Again, this is assuming something about atheists that is not explicit. I know quite a few atheists that are extremely conservative, support pro-life marches, are against stem-cell research, and for censorship; but the key is, they support these causes, not because of the belief in a god, but because of their own personal reasons (which could be philosophical, economical, or anything else). Although most often, atheists support stem-cell research, this is not made explicit by "atheism", and is just an offshoot.

4. Atheists seek to overthrow religion

This is another assumption. Though many atheists see religion as an evil, cruch for the population, something that should be eviserated (say, in the case of Richard Dawkins), just as many atheists are completey ambivalent towards the whole prospect of religion. Some atheists tolerate organized religion, others don't. It depends on the person, not whether the person is an atheist or not. Many atheists do not feel that their lack of belief is for everyone, or that it could be detrimental to society if everyone felt the way they did. The world needs believers just as it does unbelievers.

5. Atheists cannot spell

Hey, the spelling can be tricky, Atheism/athiesm, especially given the "I before E rule"

[Virgil]

I decided to start this thread, not as an attack on religious groups, religiously minded people, theists, etc., but to inform. Throughout my life I've had...

Throughout your life? You sound like an old man with lots of experience to share. Then i check your age and you're only 19. :lol:

[JCamilo]

plus atheism and agnosticism are not the samething and there is no reason to fill a bag with them...

[B-Mental]

I like to think of it as a learning disorder...between one or the other. B

[Dark Star]

Throughout your life? You sound like an old man with lots of experience to share. Then i check your age and you're only 19. :lol:

That sort of thing is still heard commonly, even if a person is only 19. I'm 20 and I've heard a lifetime's worth of those ridiculous atheist stereotypes by now. Between message boards and living in the Bible Belt...

[B-Mental]

its just a yes or no question... Do you have faith in your self?

[Dark Star]

its just a yes or no question... Do you have faith in your self?

This strikes me more as an existential question than a religious one.;)

[B-Mental]

well then I pity you

[Virgil]

That sort of thing is still heard commonly, even if a person is only 19. I'm 20 and I've heard a lifetime's worth of those ridiculous atheist stereotypes by now. Between message boards and living in the Bible Belt...

I wasn't critiquing whether atheism is valid or not; young or old can be atheists. It just that he was speaking as if he had a world of experience to share.

[Logos]

Please discuss the topic and not the poster :)

[Granny5]

I decided to start this thread, not as an attack on religious groups, religiously minded people, theists, etc., but to inform. Throughout my life I've had many accusations and assumptions made about my personal atheistic stance, that I thought I'd like to inform people, for once and for all, the tenements of atheism, and common "myths".

1. Atheists deny the existence of God

It is a widely held belief among a large portion of the population that an atheist believes that God does not exist. This is close, but not entirely correct. There exists a difference between two kinds of atheism, one of which strong, or explicit, atheism, outright denys that (a) God exists, and does so on any number of grounds (philosophical, scientific, mathematical, etc.). This explicit denial is in comparison to weak, or implicit, atheism, which does not outright reject the existence of God. Weak atheists merely lack the belief in a God, and do not make a claim as to whether he cannot, or does not, exist. This is an important distinction that many are unaware of. For instance, children are born weak atheists, not having a belief in god, while also not disbelieving in god. Often, members of the community, whether it be family, priests, monks, or friends, introduce a belief in God(s) to the child, instilling in the child a firm belief in religion (most often the religion of the parents).

I guess this is true in most families, but my Family was Baptist, I am Anglican and my daughters are Church of Christ. We were taught to study and develop our own understanding and belief.

This means that agnosticism, the uncertainty as to whether God exists or not, is a type of atheism. I for one, cannot explicitly deny the existence of God, just as I cannot deny the existence of unicorns or aliens. Belief is based on proof.

Belief is based on FAITH. That's why it's not called Proof in God.

It should also be noted that, mostly everyone is in some way an atheist. Although Christians belief in the "one-true" God, they deny the existence of the Hindu panthenon, thereby making them atheistic towards the gods of the Hindu religion. This is often mishandled in discussion.

2. Atheists do not believe in anything

This is implying something about a person that is not explicit in their label as an atheists. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, not the lack of belief in anything. That could be referred to as nihilism; and although some atheists are also nihilists, this is not always the case (just like not all rectangles are squares).

Many atheists believe in a number of things, ranging from ghosts, clairvoyance, weiji boards, etc. The only thing the term atheist says about them is that they do not believe in a god.

3. Atheists are evil

This is kind of a ridiculous statement, and one which requires a definition for "evil", which of course, there isn't one. Again, this is assuming something about atheists that is not explicit. I know quite a few atheists that are extremely conservative, support pro-life marches, are against stem-cell research, and for censorship; but the key is, they support these causes, not because of the belief in a god, but because of their own personal reasons (which could be philosophical, economical, or anything else). Although most often, atheists support stem-cell research, this is not made explicit by "atheism", and is just an offshoot.

4. Atheists seek to overthrow religion

This is another assumption. Though many atheists see religion as an evil, cruch for the population, something that should be eviserated (say, in the case of Richard Dawkins), just as many atheists are completey ambivalent towards the whole prospect of religion. Some atheists tolerate organized religion, others don't. It depends on the person, not whether the person is an atheist or not. Many atheists do not feel that their lack of belief is for everyone, or that it could be detrimental to society if everyone felt the way they did. The world needs believers just as it does unbelievers.

Why would anyone care what someone else believed in? Why would anyone consider it their business?

5. Atheists cannot spell

Hey, the spelling can be tricky, Atheism/athiesm, especially given the "I before E rule"

There are some true believers who can't spell either. :lol:

I've tried for months to figure out how to do the short quote thing and just can't figure it out!

[Pendragon]

I stated on another thread here that one needs to pray more and mind one's own business. That taking care of one's own sins is a 24/7 job and leaves little time to judge others. I stand by that.

Having said that, I have never really thought that an atheist doesn't believe anything. There is a large universe out there, and it is as the Vulucan's put it full of "infinite diversity in infinite combinations". Somewhere in all that lies something to believe in.

God Bless

Pen

[Dark Star]

A short reply to Granny5:

I'm guessing that the OP meant his belief or lack thereof was based on proof, not that the belief of others is based on proof.

As for why someone would care about another's beliefs: Because the religious beliefs of people PROFOUNDLY affect their lives and change how they act toward others. It is something to be worried about when people are harming others or trying to change one's system of government due to their religious beliefs. This happens. This is why people care about it.

[Granny5]

A short reply to Granny5:

I'm guessing that the OP meant his belief or lack thereof was based on proof, not that the belief of others is based on proof.

As for why someone would care about another's beliefs: Because the religious beliefs of people PROFOUNDLY affect their lives and change how they act toward others. It is something to be worried about when people are harming others or trying to change one's system of government due to their religious beliefs. This happens. This is why people care about it.

Of course, you are correct. But it would seem that the world would be so much better off if you weren't. :(

[Dark Star]

A short reply to Granny5:

"Belief is based on FAITH. That's why it's not called Proof in God."

I'm guessing that the OP meant his belief or lack thereof was based on proof, not that the belief of others is based on proof.

"Why would anyone care what someone else believed in? Why would anyone consider it their business?"

As for why someone would care about another's beliefs: Because the religious beliefs of people PROFOUNDLY affect their lives and change how they act toward others. It is something to be worried about when people are harming others or trying to change one's system of government due to their religious beliefs. This happens. This is why people care about it.


its just a yes or no question... Do you have faith in your self?

This strikes me more as an existential question than a religious one.

well then I pity you

The point I was making is that you're setting up a straw man. You can believe in a deity and also have faith in yourself, and for that matter, be an atheist and not have faith in yourself.

EDIT: Well, dammit. I was trying to edit my previous post and I'm not seeing an option to delete this. Perhaps a mod can add it later.

[Granny5]

The point I was making is that you're setting up a straw man. You can believe in a deity and also have faith in yourself, and for that matter, be an atheist and not have faith in yourself.

EDIT: Well, dammit. I was trying to edit my previous post and I'm not seeing an option to delete this. Perhaps a mod can add it later.

You are, of course, correct in saying that one can believe in a deity and have faith in oneself or be an atheist and not have faith in oneself. But life would be hard without faith in oneself, in my opinion. I don't think that just because one is an atheist, they don't have faith in themselves. As a matter of fact, most atheists I know seem to have a lot of faith in their own judgments.
I don't know if I've made any sense with this. But I think it's just might be more important to have faith in oneself as in a deity. How could one be a true believer or non-believer if one doubted their own thought process?

[B-Mental]

Yes, I'm made of straw as are you, but some straw is stronger than the big bad wolf...but only the ones that have faith...

[Dark Star]

You are, of course, correct in saying that one can believe in a deity and have faith in oneself or be an atheist and not have faith in oneself. But life would be hard without faith in oneself, in my opinion. I don't think that just because one is an atheist, they don't have faith in themselves. As a matter of fact, most atheists I know seem to have a lot of faith in their own judgments.
I don't know if I've made any sense with this. But I think it's just might be more important to have faith in oneself as in a deity. How could one be a true believer or non-believer if one doubted their own thought process?

The implication of his post seemed to be that an atheist has faith in themself whereas a believer in a religion has faith in a deity since they don't have faith in themself. That's the straw man I was speaking of.

That said, his last rather odd post makes me wondering if he was speaking of the opposite and saying that atheists don't have faith in themselves...:confused:

[Virgil]

1. Atheists deny the existence of God

It is a widely held belief among a large portion of the population that an atheist believes that God does not exist. This is close, but not entirely correct. There exists a difference between two kinds of atheism, one of which strong, or explicit, atheism, outright denys that (a) God exists, and does so on any number of grounds (philosophical, scientific, mathematical, etc.). This explicit denial is in comparison to weak, or implicit, atheism, which does not outright reject the existence of God. Weak atheists merely lack the belief in a God, and do not make a claim as to whether he cannot, or does not, exist. This is an important distinction that many are unaware of. For instance, children are born weak atheists, not having a belief in god, while also not disbelieving in god. Often, members of the community, whether it be family, priests, monks, or friends, introduce a belief in God(s) to the child, instilling in the child a firm belief in religion (most often the religion of the parents).


Frankly to me this makes no sense at all. It's like being only a little pregnant; either your pregnant or not. By definition, you either believe in God or not. It's a yes or no.

[B-Mental]

well, I'm a man, and I am not pregnant! LOL. That being said, I have made a woman pregnant...and she gave me a beautiful gift....I call it...Megan. And So It Goes!

[mayneverhave]

Frankly to me this makes no sense at all. It's like being only a little pregnant; either your pregnant or not. By definition, you either believe in God or not. It's a yes or no.

This is one of the first posts that actually addresses what I said rather than my age haha. And yes, I'm only 19 and the way I stated my introduction may have came off as pretentious, and for that I'm sorry.

I agree: one is either pregnant or not. You are completely correct in what you are saying, and unknowlingly restating what I've already said.

It is true you either believe or you do not. What strong atheism implies is also a belief. It is the denial of the existence of God, whereas weak atheism is the mere lack of a belief.

That is what seperates theism and weak atheism; one has the belief in god, the other does not.

Strong atheism is a horse of a different color; it is a belief similiar to theism, only that it explicitly denies god's existence.

Understand what I'm saying?

[biscuits]

1. Atheists deny the existence of God

It is a widely held belief among a large portion of the population that an atheist believes that God does not exist. This is close, but not entirely correct. There exists a difference between two kinds of atheism, one of which strong, or explicit, atheism, outright denys that (a) God exists, and does so on any number of grounds (philosophical, scientific, mathematical, etc.). This explicit denial is in comparison to weak, or implicit, atheism, which does not outright reject the existence of God. Weak atheists merely lack the belief in a God, and do not make a claim as to whether he cannot, or does not, exist. This is an important distinction that many are unaware of. For instance, children are born weak atheists, not having a belief in god, while also not disbelieving in god. Often, members of the community, whether it be family, priests, monks, or friends, introduce a belief in God(s) to the child, instilling in the child a firm belief in religion (most often the religion of the parents).

This means that agnosticism, the uncertainty as to whether God exists or not, is a type of atheism. I for one, cannot explicitly deny the existence of God, just as I cannot deny the existence of unicorns or aliens. Belief is based on proof.


I think you're mixing atheism with monotheism and agnosticism.

Atheism is the complete rejection of god. As others have said, it's a yes or no question. An atheist is a person who, usually by means of logical deduction, has come to the conclusion that the idea of god is illogical, therefore wrong.
Atheists don't "not beleive". They rule out belief.
An agnostic is a person who has come to the conclusion that he can neither completely accept nor completely reject the idea of the existence of a divine entity.
A monotheist is a person who has accepted a single god and rejected all other deities. The similarity between monotheism and atheism derives from the rejection of deities, a main characteristic of both ideas. However, in atheism, the rejection is absolute, while in monotheism the rejection is only partial.

Children are unaware of religion or god. A child can barely grasp the idea of his own existence, let alone such a philosophical question as the existence of god.


Belief is the absolute opposite of proof. When one believes, one is satisfied with an answer to a question despite the lack of proof.

[mayneverhave]

Belief is the absolute opposite of proof. When one believes, one is satisfied with an answer to a question despite the lack of proof.

Incorrect.

Consider the keyboard you are typing upon in order to respond to this thread. Do you believe those keys exist? What would that belief be based on? Faith alone? - Hardly. You believe the keys you type on, the chair you sit in, the TV you watch television shows on are real, because you have emperical proof of each of those things. There's no leap of faith necessary. Although one could argue that our very perceptions are potentially flawed, therefore no certainty (or belief) is possible, that is not the purpose of the thread or discussion.

Although religious belief most often involves faith (as it should), not all belief is grounded on faith alone. You are using the word in a specific sense to describe things in a general sense.

[Dark Star]

Since some here seem to be unaware: It is entirely possible to be an agnostic atheist. This is also what it is commonly known as weak atheism and describes most atheists. The difference between that and a 'hard' atheist is that they lack belief in a deity rather than putting faith in the idea that it is 100% sure that the deity does not exist. An agnostic atheist says 'I lack belief in God.' A hard atheist says 'God does not exist.' There's a difference between the two.

[Riesa]

lovely post OP. I have noticed that lately my spelling of wierd is wrong...weird.. it must be my atheistic beliefs wreaking havoc with my spelling.

[Virgil]

This is one of the first posts that actually addresses what I said rather than my age haha. And yes, I'm only 19 and the way I stated my introduction may have came off as pretentious, and for that I'm sorry.

I agree: one is either pregnant or not. You are completely correct in what you are saying, and unknowlingly restating what I've already said.

It is true you either believe or you do not. What strong atheism implies is also a belief. It is the denial of the existence of God, whereas weak atheism is the mere lack of a belief.

That is what seperates theism and weak atheism; one has the belief in god, the other does not.

Strong atheism is a horse of a different color; it is a belief similiar to theism, only that it explicitly denies god's existence.

Understand what I'm saying?

I must be daft. I have no idea what you're talking about.

edit: After re-reading this mornig your post I do now think I understand what you're saying. Though I don't know whether philosophically it is meaningful: strong atheism/weak atheism, atheism is atheism. Did you make up these terms or did you see them somewhere?

[jon1jt]

I decided to start this thread, not as an attack on religious groups, religiously minded people, theists, etc., but to inform. Throughout my life I've had many accusations and assumptions made about my personal atheistic stance, that I thought I'd like to inform people, for once and for all, the tenements of atheism, and common "myths".

1. Atheists deny the existence of God

It is a widely held belief among a large portion of the population that an atheist believes that God does not exist. This is close, but not entirely correct. There exists a difference between two kinds of atheism, one of which strong, or explicit, atheism, outright denys that (a) God exists, and does so on any number of grounds (philosophical, scientific, mathematical, etc.). This explicit denial is in comparison to weak, or implicit, atheism, which does not outright reject the existence of God.

C'mon, please. You're going to explain atheism to us using terms like weak atheism and strong atheism. :rolleyes: It reminds me of Joseph Nye at Harvard talking about soft power and hard power. Please define existence without resorting to your soft/weak, Sir atheist.


[B]Weak atheists merely lack the belief in a God, and do not make a claim as to whether he cannot, or does not, exist. This is an important distinction that many are unaware of. For instance, children are born weak atheists, not having a belief in god, while also not disbelieving in god. Often, members of the community, whether it be family, priests, monks, or friends, introduce a belief in God(s) to the child, instilling in the child a firm belief in religion (most often the religion of the parents).

Without ever using the word, you imply that knowledge denotes the degree to which one 'is' an atheist. Belief, dear atheist, extends beyond mere "instilling" of the idea, and Being extends beyond belief.

I'm going to stop reading your post right about now, no point.

[biscuits]

Incorrect.

Consider the keyboard you are typing upon in order to respond to this thread. Do you believe those keys exist? What would that belief be based on? Faith alone? - Hardly. You believe the keys you type on, the chair you sit in, the TV you watch television shows on are real, because you have emperical proof of each of those things. There's no leap of faith necessary. Although one could argue that our very perceptions are potentially flawed, therefore no certainty (or belief) is possible, that is not the purpose of the thread or discussion.

Although religious belief most often involves faith (as it should), not all belief is grounded on faith alone. You are using the word in a specific sense to describe things in a general sense.

I disagree. Faith is a belief - a positive one, usually- that is limited to metaphysical subjects, such as religion and human spirit. Belief is an assumption not based on logic.

I don't believe the keyboard in front of me exists. I use my senses (touch, smell, sound, sight), my experience (it responds exactly as it has in the past) and logic (it's existence influence reality) to conclude that it does. I believe my brother when he tells me he didn't hit his classmate on purpose, though I know it might as well be him, since I wasn't there and no one else will talk. I may have faith in god and his ways (just an example, I'm an atheist).

[aeroport]

There are some true believers who can't spell either. :lol:

I've tried for months to figure out how to do the short quote thing and just can't figure it out!

Just cut the parts out of the quote that you don't need, while preserving the bracketed "QUOTE=name" and "/QUOTE" at the beginning and end.

[B-Mental]

What if God were the answer to all your prayers? Would you recognize?

[B-Mental]

What if God were your Answer to just one prayer? Would you recognise?

[RobinHood3000]

...I miss anything? :confused:

[hellsapoppin]

Interestingly, in all my many years, the happiest people I have ever known were all atheists!

[dzebra]

That truly is interesting, because in my experience, the most frustrated people I've known were all atheists. The average frustration of all my atheist friends has been much greater than the average frustration of my non-atheist friends.

I wonder if frustration and happiness levels are part of any common misconceptions about atheists. I expect so because two people here have just expressed different experiences, and so one of us has experienced the statistical minority. (unless it's split 50-50)

[hellsapoppin]

Fascinating! I have NEVER seen anything like that!!

Atheists I have known were scientists, businessmen, inventors, accountants, and other highly paid professions {I was in the tax and law field for many years}. When confronted with life's travails, they always responded with rationalism and personal dynamism.

By contrast, the most unhappy people I have ever known subscribed to some form of Abrahamic religion.

Remarkable!!:)

[Orionsbelt]

Interesting discussion. Maybe I could add a few thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading.:D

Strong and weak atheism – I think this is the degree to which one feels compelled to act or speak. Perhaps the degree that that thought is a driving force in your way of life. In the same way that there are strong Catholics, strong - the pope, and weak - Catholics, church only on Christmas and Easter. So there is a distinction between holding a given position and how you integrate, interact, relate, use, … other random words to describe various ways that these thoughts move through you.

If you believe in a deity, any deity, then you must be able to define your relationship to it.
It is mostly always a subordinate relationship in terms of available powers. The deity has the power and you don’t. The duties will change depending on what kind of a relationship the believer wants to establish with the given power. Specific favors will require a specific prescription. Hindu and other non-Abrahamic religions require a different relationship with the deity than those who follow that tradition. As I understand it One form of Buddhist in particular will tell you that if you are going to be a believer, whatever the tradition, be the best one you can be.

Happy & Sad In the tradition of Abraham you are an sinner, imperfect, lower level being, whatever you want to call this subordinate relationship in a bad place with other bad people and God is the good ruler. You then have duties that are required as a subordinate in order to maintain the correct alignment. Given this general position how can anyone be not sad. All the good stuff is by definition not here and you maybe will somehow get to see it whenever.

Confidence in self and confidence in God. A believer, in times of low confidence, can throw some weight onto a deity for emotional support. Prayers petitions and additional strength etc. The question posted in the thread somewhere relating to self confidence then, to me, asks where does an atheist go when confidence wanes?

I personally believe that there is a sustaining life giving, regenerative element at work. Not just in ourselves but in anything that lives. In my mind there is no distinction between the mystery that I am in fact alive and the tree is also alive. I think that the same sustaining creative energy in both and every other living thing. There is no evidence to support a contention on my behalf that I am somehow special, better, positioned, unique, etc. I agree that I have other abilities. However in essence, the same thing that keeps my cells functioning keeps the cells of other living things functioning. I try to refrain from believing that it is somehow personal. I am awestruck by the whole dang thing and I think its' really cool to be here wherever here is.:D

[hellsapoppin]

Great post.



Divorce rate is lower for atheists:

http://digg.com/world_news/Atheist_divorce_rate_is_Lower_than_Christian


Another thing that atheists have in common is their great disdain for bigotry against ethnic, religious, political, and lifestyle minorities.

I found this on beliefnet.net and find it quite fascinating:


`` The Federal Bureau of Prisons reported in 2001 that the crime rate among atheists was 900% lower than that among Christians, even by conservative estimates. George Barna's study also showed that atheists are far more likely to give to charity and less likely to divorce. Your anecdotal evidence was touching, but if you scratched beneath the surface and quantified your efforts a little, you would quickly find that there is no connection between atheism and mental illness whatsoever.

Posted by: Quill | January 22, 2007 12:15 PM``


Based upon my law background, I'm inclined to agree.

Atheists get a bad rap among religionists but all too often the criticism directed at them is unwarranted and unjustifiable.

[mayneverhave]

The only thing I find irritating is the automatic assumption that I was an atheist, just because I posted a thread called "common misconceptions about atheism".

I never claimed to be an atheist, and although I am - in fact - that should have no bearing on your reading of my post or attacks concerning my beliefs that lie outside of what I said in the post.

[El Viejo]

There are some true believers who can't spell either. :lol:

I've tried for months to figure out how to do the short quote thing and just can't figure it out!

Hi Granny 5.

If you were just remarking, and don't want help, I apologize for offering it.

If someone else has already offered, I didn't see it, and again I apologize.

When you quote someone your message form opens with [QUOTE= and [/QUOTE] at the end. The quoted material is between those points, mixed in with formatting information. Just highlight and delete the text you don't want, but make sure to leave the other 'stuff' though.

[The Atheist]

Looks like a thread made for me!


That said, his last rather odd post makes me wondering if he was speaking of the opposite and saying that atheists don't have faith in themselves...:confused:

You're just confusing the several meanings of the word "faith". I have faith in my abilities, I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, but no faith in matters which are unproven or entirely esoteric.


Strong atheism is a horse of a different color; it is a belief similiar to theism, only that it explicitly denies god's existence.

You're almost right, but comparing a strong atheist to a theist doesn't quite work. A strong atheist, who may say "There is no god/s" can make an excellent rational case for the non-existence of god.

Christians are strong atheists when it comes to mentioning any of the thousands of gods other than YHWH, but they do rather tend to get their panties bunched up when someone treats their sky-daddy with the same disain they show for Osiris, Zeus, Apollo and Seth.


Atheism is the complete rejection of god. As others have said, it's a yes or no question. An atheist is a person who, usually by means of logical deduction, has come to the conclusion that the idea of god is illogical, therefore wrong.
Atheists don't "not beleive". They rule out belief.

Unfortunately, that is a malicious rumour spread by theists. What you're describing is more an anti-theist than an atheist. Atheists must be rationalists by nature - as described by Bertrand Russell, et al. It isn't all that rational to completely deny the existence of gods, there are still a few quantum physics problems to be solved before we can say with certainty that no gods exist. Wait until that CERN collider gets up to light speed!


An agnostic is a person who has come to the conclusion that he can neither completely accept nor completely reject the idea of the existence of a divine entity.

Completely wrong. The existence of agnosticism is well documented in many churches and is a perfectly acceptable opinion for even bishops to hold (http://www.latimer.org.nz/comment/archives/2007/01/bishop_randerso.html).

That dictionaries haven't caught up with the change in meaning over the past century of "atheist" and "agnostic" is poor play by lexicographers.


However, in atheism, the rejection is absolute, while in monotheism the rejection is only partial.

Unfortunately, you saying it does not make it so - you're simply wrong.


Children are unaware of religion or god. A child can barely grasp the idea of his own existence, let alone such a philosophical question as the existence of god.

Ergo, children who have not yet been indoctrinated by their parents are atheists - they do not believe in god. It is actually that simple.


Belief is the absolute opposite of proof. When one believes, one is satisfied with an answer to a question despite the lack of proof.

Completely wrong again. If scientists didn't believe they would find answers, none would try. Belief is often wrong, but not always.


What if God were your Answer to just one prayer? Would you recognise?

Absolutely. Once, just one miracle in the entire world. That's all it would take for me to throw this tag away.

Unlike the OP writer, I've been looking for evidence for almost half a century, yet still haven't found one instance. Seen lots of fraudulent attempts though, which doesn't augur well for religion - if it were real, why cheat?


I wonder if frustration and happiness levels are part of any common misconceptions about atheists. I expect so because two people here have just expressed different experiences, and so one of us has experienced the statistical minority. (unless it's split 50-50)

Maybe you could exapnd upon that, as your statement is merely an unsubstantiated and subjective opinion on whether people are frustrated or not. Unfortunately, that is the very type of "evidence" rationalists are unlikely to believe.

[hellsapoppin]

Question for Atheist:

In my experience, atheists are the happiest and most unprejudiced people anywhere --- is this your experience as well?

[NikolaiI]

Both the ideas "God" and "no God" can cause discomfort; they can also cause pain and sickness. To a certain person, and yes they exist, hearing either hurts, painfully. But this does not much about the ideas.

So, your statistics are fine. But don't negate the ideas because of statistics. That is, don't think that something is necessarily a block to logical thinking.

-a block to logical thinking; by this I mean...like when we make a judgment before any reason to believe it's true. If we do this it twists our thinking, and it actually, I believe, causes negative physiological responses.

Anyway this, (and the first thing I said) are reasons to me why it's important to be careful of what you say and write. Or it is why I am, even if I'm engaged with someone who will try to negate me.

[mayneverhave]

Question for Atheist:

In my experience, atheists are the happiest and most unprejudiced people anywhere --- is this your experience as well?


From my personal experience, I have usually found that the less someone is grounded in a certain faith, the more unbiased and open minded they are. As for happiness, that is a completely different story; I know plenty of people that are completely over-the-moon for God and are incredibly happy with it.

I'd avoid making assumptions like that concerning happiness. Open-mindedness maybe, but not happiness.

[Niamh]

Many atheists believe in a number of things, ranging from ghosts, clairvoyance, weiji boards, etc. The only thing the term atheist says about them is that they do not believe in a god.

While reading the OP this bit just wasnt right for me....an aweful lot of people who believe in ghosts, the spirit world, clairvoyancy etc are also strong believers in Angels and a higher being. They have a strong sense of spiritualism. yes i'm sure there are lots of Atheist that claim not to believe in god but they believe that ghosts exist, but ghosts are peoples spirits, and spirits go into the after life, and afterlifes are generally over seen by higher beings which could be a god, so does not that technically make an Atheist who believes these things a hypocrate? (no insults intended...just a minor observation)

Since some here seem to be unaware: It is entirely possible to be an agnostic atheist. This is also what it is commonly known as weak atheism and describes most atheists. The difference between that and a 'hard' atheist is that they lack belief in a deity rather than putting faith in the idea that it is 100% sure that the deity does not exist. An agnostic atheist says 'I lack belief in God.' A hard atheist says 'God does not exist.' There's a difference between the two.

Funny... when i was younger i use to tell myself that i was an atheist, but i wasnt sure what type. I discovered a book in my library that defined the different types of atheists and agnostic along with humanist was one of them. Because of that i always assumed that Atheism was just the overall term for a group of different non-deity beliefs...

[hellsapoppin]

``Open-mindedness maybe, but not happiness.``


Remember that I specifically said that this was so in my experience. I did not say that this is true for the entire world.

Perhaps this has not been so in your experience and I can certainly understand that. But when you ask for open mindedness on such issues, please be very sure that you keep an equally open mind.

[islandclimber]

I agree that atheists are the most unprejudiced people usually, although some religions such as buddhism could make a strong case as well... though, originally buddhism was an atheistic religion as one of siddhartha's main points was that there is no all powerful god(s)..

I believe often they are very content with life as it is, and don't have as much doubt as people with religious beliefs, for they can be content with just saying we don't have to worry about what comes next, just accept it whatever it is... though the opposite can be said to be true as well... without faith in anything doubt can become a way of life, and a strong enough faith can overcome doubt, so I agree it is a matter of personal experience..

I am an atheist, I don't believe in a god, or not in a way that we can define or understand... in fact I may even be slightly pantheistic in believing god is everything and nothing, and everything and nothing are god.. just maybe...

but one thing I do know, is that science requires as much faith as any religion for all of science is theory, the best way so far to explain what's going on around us.. seems like a religion to me, to have science as your god... why try to explain what is behind everything, why not just live and love, and take things as beautiful without having to know why...

[El Viejo]

Boy, wouldn't I like to believe this! It's always nice to think you're in the best group. That's the major appeal of the Abrahamic offshoots--you and the select elect have it figured out and are headed in the right direction.

It's the major appeal of preppiedom--you're in the right schools, with the right friends and a bright future: you are a Beach Boy.

Atheism offers potential advantages, like not feeling compelled to consign someone to hell for believing in a different God or dogma.

Being an atheist is a bit like having a high IQ. Your potential will not necessarily be realized, depending on your choices. There are 'brainy' people who are prejudiced, mean-spirited, short-sighted, or just plain stupid.

What you believe, and what you possess (mentally, physically), doesn't change what you are. What you choose to do with respect to your fellows does.

[mayneverhave]

What you believe, and what you possess (mentally, physically), doesn't change what you are. What you choose to do with respect to your fellows does.

I would agree with the majority of your post, and that was one of the main things I was trying to say in my OP. Belief or, the lack of belief, in a deity is simply that; it doesn't say anything about the rest of your beliefs.

There are depressed and close-minded atheists, just as there are happy and unprejudiced atheists. Atheism is just one facet of an individual that doesn't have anything to do with the rest of you.


As for the part of your post I quoted: that would largely depend on what you define as "you". Do your beliefs not define a portion of your personality? Does action completely determine personality? Doesn't internal thought have anything to do with it?

[Scheherazade]

Please do not discuss current politics.

[El Viejo]

As for the part of your post I quoted: that would largely depend on what you define as "you". Do your beliefs not define a portion of your personality? Does action completely determine personality? Doesn't internal thought have anything to do with it?

Before I answer, is Sheherazade talking to me re: "current politics"?

If so, what did I say that falls into that category.

Not being a wise guy, just new here and wondering.

[dzebra]

Nah, that was to me and hellsapoppin, for we were talking about the present president of the states.

[El Viejo]

As for the part of your post I quoted: that would largely depend on what you define as "you". Do your beliefs not define a portion of your personality? Does action completely determine personality? Doesn't internal thought have anything to do with it?

Ok.

Belief and personality are interactive. I can't say if one is a subset of the other, or if they are facets of the same thing. I've seen in myself that if one changes the other changes as well.

Action I generally see as a product of personality/belief, although it too is interactive with the other parts of me. If I put the cart before the horse, as it were, and behave in a manner contrary to what I feel, my feelings change. Not an about face, but they do change.

Internal thought is another inextricable (from my perspective) piece of the software. Like actions, thoughts are shaped by, but can also shape, belief and personality.

But getting back to what I said about what we do defining us, there are two sides again: I may author a story, and for me it has certain meaning, but once I release it and it enters the minds of others I am no longer in control. They will perceive it as they will, and what they perceive may differ, perhaps greatly, from my intent. So it is with my life. I think, believe, have a personality and intentions, but what others see and remember is what will define me. On the other hand, what I do reinforces or reshapes what I believe about myself, and in that sense my actions define me as well.

[hellsapoppin]

Nah, that was to me and hellsapoppin, for we were talking about the present president of the states.


Was that it?

In my reply I mentioned how political leaders deliberately used Sacred Scripture to ''justify'' their evils. Next time I will not mention any names. Mine was strictly a historical, not political statement.

Honestly. :)

[blazeofglory]

Why torn between notions of theism and atheism? Everyone is a bit of both, and our ideas and modes of thinking approve of this. Why should we feud over this nonsensical notion? We are human beings, thinking animals and there is no limit set against thinking.

[LMK]

It might be helpful to introduce the possibility that there could be a difference between atheism and anti-theism.

It was a Greek convention originally, I think, to add ‘a + word’ to make a word’s antonym, but it doesn’t have to go to that extent it could alter the word just enough to suggest that it is ‘not of the same character, or without this facet’ rather than jump to antithesis.

For example, I might be apolitical. That need not mean that I am against politics or that I do not believe in the need or existence of politics. It might simply mean that I form no opinions about politics and am not involved in politics in any way.

Just a couple of cents worth of thoughts,
~L

[RichardHresko]

It might be helpful to introduce the possibility that there could be a difference between atheism and anti-theism.

It was a Greek convention originally, I think, to add ‘a + word’ to make a word’s antonym, but it doesn’t have to go to that extent it could alter the word just enough to suggest that it is ‘not of the same character, or without this facet’ rather than jump to antithesis.

For example, I might be apolitical. That need not mean that I am against politics or that I do not believe in the need or existence of politics. It might simply mean that I form no opinions about politics and am not involved in politics in any way.

Just a couple of cents worth of thoughts,
~L

This is a good point. There are some people who, while maintaining a belief-system that rejects the existence of a god or gods, accept the principle of different strokes for different folks and do not pass judgment on a difference in belief, or try to argue one system is demonstrably better than another. These would be atheists. Those people who adopt a position of hostility towards organized religion have been traditionally designated 'anti-clerical' (and this group includes people who do believe in a god or gods). Another position is one that is hostile towards a belief-system, organized or not, that accepts the existence of a god or gods. This last one would best be referred to as anti-theistic. Those who feel that there is insufficient evidence and based on that insufficiency can not determine whether or not there is a god or gods would receive the appellation 'agnostic.'

The greatest misconception about atheism is that it is different in kind from other forms of belief. As has been discussed elsewhere, atheism is just another response to the basic matephysical questions of what reality is, and what role humans play in it.