reference letters - say what??

[fayefaye]

ok, so I asked one of my teachers to write a reference letter - but he doesn't actually teach ME (so that statement makes no sense) - the letter has to be written by principals, year co-ordinators, blah blah blah.... and he said 'ok, but what sort of things do you want me to write?' 'WHAT? I'm supposed to TELL you what to say about me??' 'that's the way these things work. there are different kinds of reference letters' WHAT? I HAVE NO IDEA. UNLESS i ask him to LIE and talk about how great I am and how totally and utterly in love with me absolutely EVERYBODY is and I'm OH-SO-SMART so PLEASE accept this hopeless mess into your university BECAUSE WE WANT HER THE HELL AWAY FROM HERE. So I was just wondering - what on earth ARE you supposed to write in these things???? (despite my 'ain't I cool?' dumbass jokes I hate talking about 'personal achievements' and crap like that and it certainly seems like I'm required to do so.. I feel like a complete *** writing these things... OOOHHHH CHECK OUT MY LIST OF (you know, WHATEVER) )

Someone help me or I'll be stuck on this computer all night.

[fayefaye]

'hey, when you look this good, you don't have to KNOW anything' -Futurama

[Scheherazade]

Faye> what you put in the reference letter depends on what it is going to be used for... It would be a good idea to emphasise the aspects of your character and your qualifications which would make you a good candidate for the purpose you are getting it for.

Good luck with it :banana:

[fayefaye]

meh.... I decided to give him a list of 'dot points' to work around. So i have one dot point that reads 'behaviour' with nothing written next to it, he'll need to get creative cuz I'm not going to tell him what to say :smash: :yawnb: another one reads 'contribution to the school' which is funny because I believe in school repaying its debt to ME not the other way around!! hella creative. lol I hate the phoniness that goes with these things - the self promotion of all these people pretending to be something they're not. my list of extra-curricula activities is a joke because it's actually NON EXISTANT. I just can't bring myself to do a whole bunch of things just to 'stick on my CV' and at the end of the day, ain't that what it's all about? Why would anybody WANT to play ORGANISED SPORT?? lol, I mean, think about the EXERCISE that entails!! (I'm SOOOOOOOOOOO screwed) Put it this way, in or out, I simply CAN'T invent a whole bunch of crap OR plug myself like some sort of PRODUCT. The new, academic, community involved fayefaye!! One who is ORGANISED, and arrives ON TIME, and is POLITE' oh sure.

'LOVE IT OR SHOVE IT' - Futurama

ok, how do I do this AND be honest AND not feel like I'm pulling crap out of my *** AND not be a phony?

[fayefaye]

Seriously, when WILL society repay it's debt to me? It's been racking up quite the tab!

[den]

Okays...... :smash: hang on faye, it's not clear to me what exactly you need a letter of reference for?

Is it for a job? TO attend a certain class or trasfer/move to another one or school?

[fayefaye]

[trying to sing in Japanese] I
I am a dreameerrrr, hisomu pawaaaaaaa

watashii no sekai
yume to koi to fuan de dekiteru
demo souzou mo sinai mono, kakureteru hazu

waitt... I think those are the wrong lyrics., ah hell [forehead hard against computer screen] i need help!!!!

I haven't sat down and read a book in I-can't-remember how long..... 9been busy) what am I doing here?? wasting time.......

[fayefaye]

the letter's for a scholarship

[den]

Ahhh! ok! this is difficult terrain, if you want free money sorry you're going to have to grovel a bit ;) `tis the way of the world! :brickwall

I'm sure you've got high marks, outstanding attendance, relevant subjects you've studied in order to qualify for said scholarship?

It's like applying for a job, you ask relevant people, get their permission to use them as references, to `vouch' for your character, attendance, work abilities to get whatever job/course of study done, etc. etc. concentrate on the positives that you are the best for the task at hand and deserving of being granted this scholarship.

You do have to `sell yourself' a bit here. Why don't you ask a professor who has taught you? Why this particular one? Someone who knows you, your study habits, your excellent record of attendance, your intelligent grasp of the program you were studying... I know it's hard, I don't like -cough- having to over-emphasise certain traits about myself in order to get something, but that's what people look for.

If say, for a simplified example, you were a historian, had an undergrad degree in history, had done a work-study program in your 3rd and 4th semester at your undergrad university library archives in order to gain experience in the field, had maintained a GradePointAverage of 91, and say, were applying for a scholarship to teachers' college, they would look at stuff like this. One of your letters of reference could be from the head archivist, who would focus on your work-study program with them.

It's hard to tell someone what to say about you, that's why you choose people whom you get along with, who have been positive mentors to you, they've probably written many of these letters before.






the letter's for a scholarship

[den]

Also, what about a guidance counsellor? Do you have one? They are usually someone you talk to about where you want to go in your course of study, they know (sometimes) some personal stuff about you too, the fact that you could _really_ use the money, can't afford to go on in studies without it...

It's true, `these things work this way' that said ref. letter has to be ~tailored~ to exactly what you need it to be. If you're applying for a football scholarship, but have never taken phys ed, it's not gonna fly.

Just write it yourself and get the guy to sign it ;)

<I wonder if Koa went through this process for her semester abroad program... >



ok, so I asked one of my teachers to write a reference letter - but he doesn't actually teach ME (so that statement makes no sense) - the letter has to be written by principals, year co-ordinators, blah blah blah.... and he said 'ok, but what sort of things do you want me to write?' 'WHAT? I'm supposed to TELL you what to say about me??' 'that's the way these things work. there are different kinds of reference letters' WHAT? I HAVE NO IDEA. UNLESS i ask him to LIE and talk about how great I am and how totally and utterly in love with me absolutely EVERYBODY is and I'm OH-SO-SMART so PLEASE accept this hopeless mess into your university BECAUSE WE WANT HER THE HELL AWAY FROM HERE. So I was just wondering - what on earth ARE you supposed to write in these things???? (despite my 'ain't I cool?' dumbass jokes I hate talking about 'personal achievements' and crap like that and it certainly seems like I'm required to do so.. I feel like a complete *** writing these things... OOOHHHH CHECK OUT MY LIST OF (you know, WHATEVER) )

Someone help me or I'll be stuck on this computer all night.

[baddad]

fayefaye? Any luck with the reference letter? Bottom line is kinda like this: Do you need the scholarship? Competing with others to win the scholarship? Ya gotta sell yourself to the best of your abilities. Others will be doing the same. Do you find the prospect of polishing your image so that you outshine others repulsive, slimy or underhanded? Well.....it is not any of those things. In an acceptance speech when he became President of South Africa, Nelson Mandella claimed that by not letting ourselves shine to our full potential we are in fact ripping-off the world. God wants everyone to show their full potential as it only benefits all. Mandella was a smart man. Oh, and one more thing, having to do with life's truths: The great thing about being an adult is that it is okay to dislike some of the choices we have to make. Just do it.

[baddad]

Seriously, when WILL society repay it's debt to me? It's been racking up quite the tab!
Uh.................don't hold your breath on this one. And don't look back dear. Carpe Diem. There are no tabs for either side (another one of those anoying fundamentals)

good luck with the scholarship, I sure you'll kick ***

[trismegistus]

i have one dot point that reads 'behaviour' with nothing written next to it, he'll need to get creative cuz I'm not going to tell him what to say :smash: :yawnb:


Ummm, just as a bit of free advice from someone who writes recs: unless you're paying him in some way, this guy is doing you a favor. He doesn't "need to get creative." He doesn't need to do anything to sell you, and if he doesn't even know you, he's certainly not going to feel obligated to do it out of warmth for a student.

I gotta tell you that you should expect him to put in the same effort you do. If you can't be bothered to give him stuff to help HIM sell YOU, why would he be bothered to waste time "getting creative?"

I don't know the whole deal here, but your attitude seems really cavalier for someone who is asking a favor. Personally I think you'd be wiser helping the guy out a bit. Yeah it's work. Is the scholarship worth the work?

[fayefaye]

trismegistus, I DON'T sell myself because I CAN'T. I just CAN'T.

I'm not that sort of person. It would be different if it were an interview. I could do an interview. But then they'd be seeing ME and not a list of crap or stupid statements on a little piece of paper. I'm a person. Not a list of awards and not a ****ing walking report card like they treat you. Today, one of my friends was crying because she doesn't think she'll get into med because of her UMAT (med exam entrance) results. (UMAT's a ****ing joke. but the universities take it really seriously-even though it has nothing with how good a doctor somebody would REALLY be) And NOTHING - nothing feels as **** as standing there hugging her knowing there's nothing you can do because universities place more emphasis on meaningless numbers and lists of crap than how good a person really is or the compassion that they truly withold. So fine. I'm cavalier about a stupid letter. Of course. If they're going to select or not select me based on bull**** then YOU KNOW WHAT? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Tis been a bad day. Please don't take a picture.

[fayefaye]

Nelson Mandella claimed that by not letting ourselves shine to our full potential we are in fact ripping-off the world. .

Thankyou

den, you're statement about attendence put a rather large childish grin on my face. I should thank you for that too. :) I really am a bit of a bum.

[fayefaye]

I ahve GOT to stop quoting REM

[singing 'bad day']

[hmmm]

Heh Futurama rocks. Ok Here is what you do, be like me. Forget college and buy a guitar. Now start practicing everyday and get a job at McDonalds. Live with your parents until you are 35 and move out to the garage where you can be finally on your own. During all this time you cannot own a vehicle. You have to ride a bike everywere. And not even a cool one.

And I guess that about sums it up. Let me see here *rubs man beard in thought* yea I guess thats about it. I dont really have anything planned so I cant really give you all the details of my up and coming life.

Or if that is to drawn out of a plan for you you could just make stuff up. Just tell them what they want to hear. After you do it you wont even remember. Also it wouldnt hurt to bake some brownies and give it to the scholarship people. Is that were they get the term "brownie points" ? Or just give em like a dollar attached to your letter. If I did not solve your problem please reread my post.

[fayefaye]

I think I'll just cry now...

But thank you, hmmm. That did give me something to think about. As one of these anal-retentive about grades high school students.. I actually idealise and value the bum life above every other. I want to be a bum -- I think it's the only think I reallllyyyy want. To bum and travel. Give me a cardboard box by the side of the highway. Just make sure it has a view of the stars. :)

But not having a car? That does suck.

Futurama does rock. well, that goes without saying.

[trismegistus]

So fine. I'm cavalier about a stupid letter. Of course. If they're going to select or not select me based on bull**** then YOU KNOW WHAT? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Actually the letter isn't really what I'm talking about, fayefaye. I understand your unwillingness to "sell" yourself to whomever is giving the scholarship, but I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You should be seeing it as helping the guy who's trying to help you, not as selling yourself to a school.

From what you've written, this prof doesn't know you particularly well. That means this task is going to be difficult for him. It just seems to me that you could help lighten his load by giving him some material with which to work. Given that he's not getting paid to do this for you, making his chore a bit easier is the right thing to do.

[subterranean]

i once asked a reference letter from my academic conselor for scholarship as well. The fisrt thing she told me was to give her my curriculum vitae/resume. It consist mostly of my activities and achievements during my years of study. So i guess she used that as a reference to write something about me. Of course bit hard to manipulate your resume, coz she double checked everything i wrote..like calling the student senate president to confirm my involvement there :rolleyes:
But i think different institution has different criteria. the one i was applyin was scholarship which gave allowance every month, but there are some schools, like London School of Economics, which only take reference letter written by the alumni. These schools dont accept reference letter from non-alumni, even if the Dean of your faculty who write it for you..