What is God?

[LadyW]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

[mercy_mankind]

Hi , LadyW:)

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word "god," which can be made plural, as in "gods," or made feminine, as in "goddess." It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

To (me) as a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing, and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered to be the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism.


This is chapter 112, which reads:“ In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone”.
The verse
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: He, Allah, is One.
Allah is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And none is like Him

[Dark Muse]

I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

Well for Christians the Bibile does refer to God in the masculine, and gives God a very clear male persona even if it does not describe acutal physcial traits.

For me personaly, I do not belive in the One God, I am a Polythiest, so for me there are many Gods, but I put a strong emphasis on the Goddess, and for me Gaia the Goddess of the Earth is the creator, but she does not stand alone, there is a host of deities with her.

[Taliesin]

Copied from Principia Discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/) 00015:

What We Know About ERIS (not much)

The Romans left a likeness of Her for posterity--She was shown as a grotesque woman with a pale and ghastly look, Her eyes afire, Her garment ripped and torn, and as concealing a dagger in Her Bosom. Actually, most women look pale and ghastly when concealing a chilly dagger in their bosoms.

Her geneology is from the Greeks and is utterly confused. Either She was the twin of Ares and the daughter of Zeus and Hera; or She was the daughter of Nyx, goddess of night (who was either the daughter or wife of Chaos, or both), and Nyx's brother, Erebus, and whose brothers and sisters include Death, Doom, Mockery, and Friendship. And that She begat Forgetfullness, Quarrels, Lies, and a bunch of gods and goddesses like that.

One day Mal-2 consulted his Pineal Gland* and asked Eris if She really created all of those terrible things. She told him that She had always liked the Old Greeks, but that they cannot be trusted with historic matters. "They were," She added, "victims of indigestion, you know."

Suffice it to say that Eris is not hateful or malicious. But She is mischievous, and does get a little bitc*y at times.

*THE PINEAL GLAND is where each and every one of us can talk to Eris. If you have trouble activating your Pineal, then try the appendix which does almost as well. Reference: DOGMA I, METAPHYSICS #3, "The Indoctrine of the Pineal Gland"


As an authentic Pope of the Erisian church, I have the right to talk and evangelize to everyone about my view on Eris.
Since it is my right, I shall quote newfound scripture and oldfound verse:

This topic was closed on the account of being too damn silly.
The previous sentence is to be considered a cabbage.
The previous sentence was actually written by a giant man-eating fish from Alpha-Centauri due to love of the art of nuclear fission.
Who is secretly a moderator of Literature Network whose name begins with S (nudge-nudge-wink-wink)
This sentence can be considered a Schrödingerian sentence: until you finished it, its' end didn't exist, but as it now does, it feels kinda lame that the end is such a letdown.



To diverse gods
to mortals bow:
Holy Cow
and Wholly Chao.

Since it is my right to do so, I'll shut up now.

[Scheherazade]

Who is secretly a moderator of Literature Network whose name begins with S (nudge-nudge-wink-wink)Sogos? Sapayahed? Sightshade? Saimussage? Siamh?

[Pendragon]

God is a spirit and there is only one God.

But here one the LitNet I am beginning to find a distressing law that goes something like this:

Any serious discussion of a diety known as "God" having the power to create this Universe and be in anyway in charge of the souls of man shall be considered to be a myth and thus subject to ridicule of every kind until every speck of religious value is drained from the discussion at which point the thread will forthwith be locked, even through it demonstratedly left topic long ago and name-calling and ridicule have reigned for a long time. :cold: :cold: :cold:

God Bless

Pendragon

[FuzzySeduction]

Ah, this raises that oh so elusive personal question of one's own belief's. Perhaps he is considered jolly in place of the previous 'Fire n' Brimstone' manner he was characterized? Actually, people have a diminished understanding of the Virgin Mary now, because God is a sort of good creature.

Personally, God would most interest me in the previous, Zues-like manner he was portrayed in Puritan sermons during the first Great Awakening as opposed to the forgiving being he was portrayed during the second Great Awakening (a period of religious revival in America). I suppose it is because I would rather have a fallible God that I can forgive as opposed to an infallible God I would sooner revile.

Naturally, this is all my own opinion, laced with a smattering of bitterness.

:3.

[Taliesin]

Pen, if you, by chance, are referring to my post, then let me explain that I believe that serious things are also ironic and absurd and funny in a way and that you can't talk about serious things without irony or humor and that good jokes also contain a seed of truth in them. Serious and wacky are not opposites in my opinion, they are actually quite similar concepts.
So no offense, Pen.

The concept of of God is absurd - but then, the whole universe is absurd so it doesn't matter much. Common sense is what tells us Earth is flat.


I consider God a Schrödingers cat where the box is closed.

Also, the concept of Eris is practically quite sufficing for a God, because she is a bit wacky herself, plus she probably doesn't exist when she is feeling extra bitc*y. Which kind of suits me.

[protagonist]

God is the only creator.the creator of us,world,universe...
Thank God for providing all we have.

[Lote-Tree]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?


It's quite simple really LadyW:

Everything around us is caused by Something Else.

Eg.

Man makes computer -- who made man?---God made man? but who made God?...another God....who made that other God...erm...another God.....so you enter a condition called "Infinite Regress" :D

Logically there is no escape from this Regress so you invoke a Supernatural Agent which is does not have a cause itself...this is called GOD. The Uncaused. The Terminator to the Infinite Regress.

Clear as mud? :D

[mukta581]

God is Bigger than all my Problems

God is so great! Let’s worship Him today! He is worthy of our awe and praise.

We sometimes wonder if what we are told by others is the truth. With God, we never have to wonder. He is Truth.

(Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers, pray for powers equal to your task. )
:D

[RichardHresko]

The apophatic approach to understanding God, which is a common one in Christianity, is to start from the idea that we can't understand God. What we do is we approach God from what we know God can not be.

Now where does this leave us? Well, a lot can be said via this approach, at least some of it useful.

Also, this leaves open experience. Especially mystical. A brilliant thinker on this point is Gregory Palamas, a theologian of the 14th Century in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. He argued that while the essence of God is unknowable, that the activity of God, the "energeia," can be experienced directly. The main work of his that is available in English is the Triads which was written in response to a controversy involving precisely what we can know about God.

I will note that I am attempting to shift the question here from one of ontology to epistemology, since that is what seems to me to be the real issue.

[Pendragon]

Pen, if you, by chance, are referring to my post, then let me explain that I believe that serious things are also ironic and absurd and funny in a way and that you can't talk about serious things without irony or humor and that good jokes also contain a seed of truth in them. Serious and wacky are not opposites in my opinion, they are actually quite similar concepts.
So no offense, Pen.

The concept of of God is absurd - but then, the whole universe is absurd so it doesn't matter much. Common sense is what tells us Earth is flat.


I consider God a Schrödingers cat where the box is closed.

Also, the concept of Eris is practically quite sufficing for a God, because she is a bit wacky herself, plus she probably doesn't exist when she is feeling extra bitc*y. Which kind of suits me.No, no, Tal. Not you or your post personally. I know you, Mon ami, and realize that this world is something you have trouble taking seriously. It is just that negativity has already set in, the only discussion will be either a.) the sanity of people who can be so primitive as to believe in God, or b.) Richard's line of epistles, which writer had the most correct version of God, and if anyone disagrees with Augustine, it will cause trouble. So I am saying why go here again? It is the road to destruction and grief…

God Bless

Pen

[mukta581]

To say that I am made in the image of God is to say that love is the reason for my existence, for God is love.

[PrinceMyshkin]

For me, the question of whether there is or was a 'God' cannot be proven either way; nor what, if there is or was one his or her true nature was. As I see it there is a tripartite division in humankind:

1) Those who need there to be a God;

2) Those who need there NOT to be one;

3) Those to whom is a matter of supreme indifference.

1) cannot speak of their need for a God because it is self-evident to them that there is one & their need has nothing to do with it. I submit, however, that they believe because they need to believe.

2) are equally dogmatic as 1) but they are motivated by the perception of something so monstrous or unjust in creation that the only god they can conceive of must be a malevolent one.

3) are the only ones who are free.

[Bakiryu]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

Gods and Goddesses are humanity's own inventions since they need something to believe in. Like the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

The usual God with a beard and all the jolliness is just what the Christians did to Zeus when they assimilated all other religions, of course.

Who is God?
I have no idea, since he, she or it, most likely does not exist.

[Wallnutters]

i agree with bakiryu on the first comment, saying that gods and goddesses are humanity's own invention, seeing as we needed a deeper explanation of why certain things happen-- for example where humans come from, which Christians (and many other religions) believe that God created the perfect male and female and from there, the rest of humans came. Of course, now with the technology we have, it has been found that evolution happened, with the Big Bang theory, and so on. so, because humans have a need for something larger than their own life to explain abnormalities and the "big questions of life" in the world, man created God, who suppsoedly created man. and therefore, those who need an answer for those questions that believe cannot be explained by scientifics, have a god. :3

god in my image is hard to explain, as im slowly (very slowly) on my way to convert to a certain pagan religion and it is hard for me to explain what i do not know much of, except for the fact that there is more than one god, including a mother goddess and a male entity.

[Lote-Tree]

Gods and Goddesses are humanity's own inventions since they need something to believe in. Like the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

The usual God with a beard and all the jolliness is just what the Christians did to Zeus when they assimilated all other religions, of course.


This is toooo simplistic ;-)

History of God is far more complicated than that. History of God also tell us how the inventive the human mind becomes when it tries to understand the Transcendental Experience.

[NikolaiI]

The influences on my conception of God are numerous, but enlightening were Plato and the Bhagavad Gita. Plato talks of the God and the Soul very, very eloquently, usually in metahpor; for instance his metaphor of the soul being a charioteer, with two horses.

Many do personify God, but many also consider Him the Source of being, and of goodness and what is good and true in our thinking-- this is from Plato. I believe there is not just one God, but also Gods, whose covenant is more real, more solid, than anything else. I think They give gifts as well... not only when we make covenants with them, but also that as soon as we understand a truth about Them, They reveal their presence in a small way...I consider this a miracle of knowledge... and anyway, when we pray and commit ourselves to God, it is committing to a higher and more true or real reality, and it is the highest thing to make progres on this path, the path to God, the Source, the absolute; and further it is entirely possible to achieve the absolute. I believe our destinies are spiritual, and we are heaven-bound. The goal that God sets for us is self-realizatin in His light, although by this I do not mean so much that he has been personified... anyyhow, furthermore, to realize or actualize, this is not so much an abstraction, but an absence of one...although it is understand the rather abstract idea of non-duality. In the Source all duality is transcended, and also there is no time. When the Source has been achieved, true reality has been perceived; and every time we communicate and connect or link to God, we are shown, revealed, the non-existence of the phenomena we perceive through or senses to be our immediate reality. It is rather difficult to understand, but becomes simple once we do, that the fact that phenoma is passing, does mean in fact that it doesn't exist. This is very important...important to making progress towards a more real form; Plato's allegory of the cave nailed this point very well, and is also important to making progress!! Anyway, that is my opinion.

[PrinceMyshkin]

This truly extraordinary, eloquent, lucid piece of writing is by no means a proof of 'God's' existence but, rather, a self-portrait, a prjection from which we can infer in reverse what you are like. E.g.:


Many do personify God, but many also consider Him the Source of being, and of goodness and what is good and true in our thinking-- this is from Plato.

No matter where it comes from. That you have absorbed it speaks of your aspiration for goodness and truthful thinking.


I believe there is not just one God, but also Gods, whose covenant is more real, more solid, than anything else. I think They give gifts as well... not only when we make covenants with them, but also that as soon as we understand a truth about Them, They reveal their presence in a small way...I consider this a miracle of knowledge...

In which I perceive a generosity and tolerance of thought, a renunciation of the one-and-only-one path to truth way of thinking that is - to me - so sadly characteristic of those who profess this or that Ism. And the reference to a miracle of knowledge speaks of your humility: the source, I believe, of true worshipfulness...

And so on all the way through this glorious apologia pro vita sua! Salute!

[Bakiryu]

This is toooo simplistic ;-)

History of God is far more complicated than that. History of God also tell us how the inventive the human mind becomes when it tries to understand the Transcendental Experience.

yes I know the story it's longer but it's pretty much humans making pretty (or frightening) stories to justify the world around them.


i agree with bakiryu on the first comment, saying that gods and goddesses are humanity's own invention, seeing as we needed a deeper explanation of why certain things happen-- for example where humans come from, which Christians (and many other religions) believe that God created the perfect male and female and from there, the rest of humans came. Of course, now with the technology we have, it has been found that evolution happened, with the Big Bang theory, and so on. so, because humans have a need for something larger than their own life to explain abnormalities and the "big questions of life" in the world, man created God, who suppsoedly created man. and therefore, those who need an answer for those questions that believe cannot be explained by scientifics, have a god. :3

god in my image is hard to explain, as im slowly (very slowly) on my way to convert to a certain pagan religion and it is hard for me to explain what i do not know much of, except for the fact that there is more than one god, including a mother goddess and a male entity.

cool. Are you a solitary? or an acolyte?

[NikolaiI]

This truly extraordinary, eloquent, lucid piece of writing is by no means a proof of 'God's' existence but, rather, a self-portrait, a prjection from which we can infer in reverse what you are like. E.g.:

No matter where it comes from. That you have absorbed it speaks of your aspiration for goodness and truthful thinking.

In which I perceive a generosity and tolerance of thought, a renunciation of the one-and-only-one path to truth way of thinking that is - to me - so sadly characteristic of those who profess this or that Ism. And the reference to a miracle of knowledge speaks of your humility: the source, I believe, of true worshipfulness...

And so on all the way through this glorious apologia pro vita sua! Salute!

Thank you very kindly, Jerry!!

[Lote-Tree]

yes I know the story it's longer but it's pretty much humans making pretty (or frightening) stories to justify the world around them.


Still too simplistic. It is not about pretty stories and justifications etc..but about the yearning for Ultimate Meaning in Life.

[knightss]

Hi , LadyW:)

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word "god," which can be made plural, as in "gods," or made feminine, as in "goddess." It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

To (me) as a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing, and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered to be the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism.


The verse

That's really interesting Mercy. I have studied a few religions because all religions interest me but I have yet to study the Muslim religion (I will soon of course) but I have a question for you, I hope you don't mind.

If Allah is generally referred to as a "Him" wouldn't he take on a masculine form? Is it just that the word Allah doesn't have a masculine or feminine form or is that Allah, himself, doesn't have a gender?

My personal theological belief (at this point in my life) is that God is something humans were not meant to understand.. I think that if humans were meant to understand God we would know what God truly is already. I lead my life in a moral way because that's how I choose to live my life.

Also, if God does exist, is 'it' aware of its own existence?
To me it seems like most God's are portrayed as having various human faults but if there was a perfect being how could it have human faults?

[bouquin]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.




The sun had set... Overhead the blue faded; it turned a pale gold ... Sometimes when those beams of light show in the sky they are very awful. They remind you that up there sits Jehovah, the jealous God, the Almighty, Whose eye is upon you, ever watchful, never weary. You remember that at His coming the whole earth will shake into one ruined graveyard; the cold, bright angels will drive you this way and that, and there will be no time to explain what could be explained so simply . . .

- from At the Bay, a short story by Katherine Mansfield (1888-1923)

[Redzeppelin]

Gods and Goddesses are humanity's own inventions since they need something to believe in. Like the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

I'm sorry - I find these comparisons rather tedious at best. There is a huge difference between folklore figures with which we entertain children and a Being that is claimed to be the Creator of the Universe, with a Book that contains a completely coherent theology, logical moral code, and that answers some of life's most puzzling questions, as well as giving guidance as how to approach many, many issues. To confuse the two shows a serious misunderstanding as to who God is described to be. In many debate circles, it is considered risky at best to criticize that which one does not seem to have the proper grasp of. Accept an apology in advance if that came across harshly.


The usual God with a beard and all the jolliness is just what the Christians did to Zeus when they assimilated all other religions, of course.

Wrong. Christianity did not "borrow" anything from pagan religions. In fact, its differences from other religions (and the fact that compared to Christianity, many other religions reveal gaping theological "holes"), Christianity makes it clear that it is not merely some aggregation of acretions from other beliefs.


Who is God?
I have no idea, since he, she or it, most likely does not exist.

"Most likely" - thanks for at least being fair in this respect.

[Il Penseroso]

Wrong. Christianity did not "borrow" anything from pagan religions. In fact, its differences from other religions (and the fact that compared to Christianity, many other religions reveal gaping theological "holes"), Christianity makes it clear that it is not merely some aggregation of acretions from other beliefs.






http://www.pocm.info/index.html

[Redzeppelin]

http://www.pocm.info/index.html

I appreciate the link, but a webpage that purports the same thing that a poster here does does not make the page authoritative. Many webpage are put up by people who hold opinions based on certain presuppositions about the nature of reality.

In an effort to be brief, I may have been too black-and-white in my statement, and I'm too wordy sometimes.

Let me say this: that Christianity resembles religions before it does not necessarily mean it borrowed from them. CS Lewis correctly argued in Reflections on the Psalms (and a few other essays) that Christ was the "myth made real": in other words, all other "dying gods" were reflections of Him pointing towards Him and His eventual incarnation. None of the other "gods" were real - but Jesus Christ was a historical figure. Christ did not "imitate" them - He was the real incarnation of their legendary existence.

To elucidate the issue would take way more than I'm prepared to type tonight - but Christ was the realization of the other gods - not a successor. Yes, church fathers may have borrowed from other religions, but I'm speaking specifically of the Bible and Jesus Christ - not the ceremonies, rituals and the like that the early church created.

[Il Penseroso]

Yes, church fathers may have borrowed from other religions, but I'm speaking specifically of the Bible and Jesus Christ - not the ceremonies, rituals and the like that the early church created.


How do you draw a line that is not arbitrary? A limited elect created the Bible, selected and ordered it, so how do you differentiate between what was borrowed for festivity (control through jolly good times) and what is True?


I appreciate the link, but a webpage that purports the same thing that a poster here does does not make the page authoritative. Many webpage are put up by people who hold opinions based on certain presuppositions about the nature of reality.





I just meant to make it easier on myself by not having to type out what is available elsewhere. The link is meant to provide evidence for the position taken by Bakiyru.

Frankly (not to sound too harsh), a Christian's arguments will always resort to opinion, because they rely on simple (sometimes complex) subjective faith. Others look to comparitive mythology, science, etc. for answers to questions otherwise unresolved (even in the classically "coherent" Bible).

[Redzeppelin]

I just meant to make it easier on myself by not having to type out what is available elsewhere. The link is meant to provide evidence for the position taken by Bakiyru.

Frankly (not to sound too harsh), a Christian's arguments will always resort to opinion, because they rely on simple (sometimes complex) subjective faith. Others look to comparitive mythology, science, etc. for answers to questions otherwise unresolved (even in the classically "coherent" Bible).

All fine and well, but Christianity is not on the same level as mythology or science because neither offer solutions for the problems of human suffering, the existence of sin, the origins of life, our purpose here on earth (among other things). Christianity is not some "study" that organizes life - it is a lifestyle that makes life meaningful, and puts the only logical frame around our existence that answers all of its questions with authority.

[Il Penseroso]

See, I'd argue that a deep study of mythology (literature) can be focused to find "solutions for the problems of human suffering, [I don't believe in the existence of sin], the origins of life, [and] our purpose here on earth (among other things)." It may take a bit of creativity, there are no "right" answers, and the importance is to have fun, however :). Damning others to a contructed arena of eternal torment is not necessary, nor is it kindly.

[Redzeppelin]

See, I'd argue that a deep study of mythology (literature) can be focused to find "solutions for the problems of human suffering, [I don't believe in the existence of sin], the origins of life, [and] our purpose here on earth (among other things)." It may take a bit of creativity, there are no "right" answers, and the importance is to have fun, however :). Damning others to a contructed arena of eternal torment is not necessary, nor is it kindly.

Mythology (of which I have spent time studying) can reveal truths about human nature, but it cannot provide answers to the greatest questions of existence - why am I here? How did I get here? What is my purpose? Does life have meaning beyond the fact that I exist? Mythology merely shows us who we are - it reflects what is here, but it cannot grasp the metaphysical.

Don't believe in "sin" eh? What would you like to call things like theft, lying, murder, adultery, assault, et al? What's wrong with the word "sin" - except that it connotates a moral short-coming (and we don't particularly like the idea that our actions have moral implications, do we?).

"No right answers" - great. Can't you see that once you step into that postmodern quicksand that you get swallowed too? If there are no "right" answers, how did you manage to come upon the "right" answer that there are no "right answers"? According to you, your assertions are just as incorrect as mine, and all value becomes a matter of preference. Really? Such a view means that you now get to tolerate various and sundry atrocities commited worldwide and daily because "there are no right answers." Yikes.

I'm all for "fun" and seek it when I can - but seeking pleasure cannot be a basis for behavior.

God doesn't "damn" people - they "damn" themselves. CS Lewis put it concisely: In the end there will be two types of people - those who said to God "Thy will be done" and those to whom God sadly must say "Thy will be done." Nobody is condemn against their will, and nobody willing to hear God's pleading will end up in hell. Hell is a choice people make through rebellious and insistent rejection of God's invitations to join Him in a life that can last forever. That people reject that because they'd like to live life on their terms is their responsibility - not God's.

Finally, "kindness" is not a virtue if it results in the detriment of an individual. Sometimes harshness is the only way to save someone.

[blazeofglory]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

This is indeed a grand question. Nobody for sure can define HIM, yet it is of course interesting to define or understand HIm


To say that I am made in the image of God is to say that love is the reason for my existence, for God is love.

I agree with your idea of God.

[iorix]

God is the Creator
God is the Inheritor
God is the First
God is the Last
God is the Mercifull
God is the Avenger

a depth of north
a depth of south
a depth of east
a depth of west
a depth of up
a depth of down
a depth of good
a depth of evil

at the center is God the Faithfull King
and He rules over them all
from His Holy Dwelling
until eternity of eternity

sefer yetzirah

[blazeofglory]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

God is the invention of man, a tribal idea that builds up a wall between us, and humanity is set out to break it.

Friend, you are my God, for you are so vital and I can communicate with you
across all boundaries.

If God really exists It is unmanifest. If manifest, it is thru us.

[NikolaiI]

God is the invention of man, a tribal idea that builds up a wall between us, and humanity is set out to break it.

Friend, you are my God, for you are so vital and I can communicate with you
across all boundaries.

If God really exists It is unmanifest. If manifest, it is thru us.

It is true what you say, also, any statement made about God is both valid and also inconceivably limited. Thus is the nature of our limited understanding. And yet God exists, truly exists, not just as an idea but as the infinite, as the basis of all material and spiritual reality, transcendent and immanent, finite and infinite, etc.

[blazeofglory]

God, if we can understand is a phenomenon, a manifestation and beyond phenomena we can not understand. The Vedas, the oldest scriptures say Neti! Neti!!, this is not the end.

God is Nirguna, unmanifest if God really exists.
Maybe God is the cause beyond all causes.

I do not think we are different from God. For all is in God and God is in all.

[NikolaiI]

God, if we can understand is a phenomenon, a manifestation and beyond phenomena we can not understand. The Vedas, the oldest scriptures say Neti! Neti!!, this is not the end.

God is Nirguna, unmanifest if God really exists.
Maybe God is the cause beyond all causes.

I do not think we are different from God. For all is in God and God is in all.

I have many thoughts on this and I'm over-joyed to see you post here now. Indeed how can we be separated from the source? So the distinction is merely one of our understanding, but as soon as we know God, as it also says in the Vedas, all fetters fall away. I've seen this in different forms and I know it to be the highest mystical teaching. This is why I love the Vedas and I am very interested in them.

We are different from God because God is infallible but we are fallible. Also God is all powerful, the maintainer of the universe, but each of us individually is not the maintainer of the universe, but only a infinitesimal pert of the supreme. This is Vaisnava philosophy anyway. Our true nature is eternal bliss and knowlege, saciddananda (sp?), and from my experiences I've found this to be true, and it's very mind blowing in fact, the experiences I've had in this regard. Enough to prove to me beyond any earthly understanding that all our knowledge on this world is wrong, the thinking is just wrong, anything that is limiting...I'm not explaining it very well, but then if you knew what I was talking about, you'd know how difficult it is to express.

God is the cause of all causes, He is also the creator of reality. I don't think Nirguna is the only form of God, but then I am a Vaisnava and believe that the two-armed personal form of God is the original form of God; this was spoken by God himself in the Gita. But then to argue this is pointless and even negative. I believe God is a person but I don't have the intelligence to convert anyone who is not open-minded. (Even someone who is open-minded.)

Also I believe we can know God in increasing stages based on many, many factors and our spiritual practice. In a way we are non-different from God; indeed, the question for this is how can God, all powerful with infinite love, be separated from man, who prays for salvation and deliverance? If you meditate on this you will see what I mean. What I see is that we are responsible for mankind, yet at the same time, we are not. What I see is that the ultimate truth when one sees it, creates joy beyond joy and also a mad desire to share it with everyone; although it's very difficult to express. The simplest I could get it to was that it was just correct understanding and perfect living-- God's law is very simple, it is one of love. You see when we progress in mysticism, we can become prophetic and speak for God.

When our eyes are opened to this, we can raise ourselves much higher and then we see things from a (more) divine perspective. Then we are speaking for God, and with a higher authority. We can become one with God and then speak with his authority, although this isn't likely to get any response, I would think, which is why I haven't told anyone about this. But when we are in love with God like this, then we want nothing but this. All desires are fulfilled in this way. We are in a mad ecstatic love affair with God, and of course this completely transforms our paradigm.

I am not talking about sense gratification in this instance, I am talking about perception and consciousness. You and I both understand this to some degree at least; day goes by and day goes by, night goes by and night goes by, we breathe breath after breath after breath without paying attention to any of it, being completely bewildered and deluded into delusion, taking the objects of our senses to be real; trapped in our mental conceptions. "The dream of separateness." But in consciousness of God, there is no duality and no separateness, and this is where Bliss and Consciousness come in. This is when we actually experience things.

Anyway like I said I've had some amazing experiences of the bliss and knowledge of my natural state-- even after... now I have visions all the time... the only thing I want is time... and yet I don't need even that... but to back to God for a moment... God is the source; this means he is higher reality; transcendental reality... but as a concept he is the source, this means the beginning of all things. It says in the Bible "Be still and know that I am God." Being still is not the only transcendental quality (God has them all) but it is one of them-- only if we still our mind can we know God, and if we still our will, then our will is the same as God's will. If we make ourselves the perfect mystic, then our will becomes the same as God's. But the perfect mystic lives a perfectly simple life and doesn't disturb anything. This is why all I really want is time. Now God as the source-- we can give birth to the source in our minds. This happens when we touch the divine in meditation or action. I used to want to write books to maybe enlighten the world, but I've thought about it and maybe have decided that "He who knows doesn't speak." Maybe. :)

[Neo_Sephiroth]

The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

Good grief...

A jolly old man with a beard...? I've never heard of that.

How come no one ever told me this?!:flare:

[LadyW]

Good grief...
A jolly old man with a beard...? I've never heard of that.
How come no one ever told me this?!:flare:

Well, I am of a Roman Catholic religion; I think in their younger years, most Christians in general are spoon fed this image of God through "religious education."

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Umm...Wow...I wasn't expecting a serious response. My apologies. I was thinking of Santa Claus when I heard big fat jolly guy.

So, would you be as so kind to tell how they are spoon fed through religous education?


Well, I am of a Roman Catholic religion; I think in their younger years, most Christians in general are spoon fed this image of God through "religious education."

[LadyW]

Umm...Wow...I wasn't expecting a serious response. My apologies. I was thinking of Santa Claus when I heard big fat jolly guy.
So, would you be as so kind to tell how they are spoon fed through religous education?
:lol: Oh, I am terribley sorry... sense of humour failure there, eh?
Anyway, as for the "spoon-feeding," primary schools tend to hand out worksheets and make kids watch cartoon films with god as a giant old man with a white beard.

[Il Penseroso]

Anyway, as for the "spoon-feeding," primary schools tend to hand out worksheets and make kids watch cartoon films with god as a giant old man with a white beard.



No ****? Even here in America religion isn't spoon fed through worksheets and school activities (for the most part). We (not me for the love of god) choose the more insidious route, expecting students to simply acculturate through the Judeo-Christian belief system, without much social recognition of alternate identities.

[LadyW]

No ****? Even here in America religion isn't spoon fed through worksheets and school activities (for the most part). We (not me for the love of god) choose the more insidious route, expecting students to simply acculturate through the Judeo-Christian belief system, without much social recognition of alternate identities.

I see :)
Well do bear in mind I am referring to the younger half of a primary school - approximately from ages 5-9. Naturally, as we age and our minds grow, we develop different ideas. Of course, these images of God are merely to illustrate the stories of the Bible in a simplistic way.

[storyG]

I didn't know Christianity had solutions for human life--I mean, I never noticed. Christians always seemed at least as screwed up as everybody else if not more so. I always figured 2000 years of failure proved something. So I did the new age church thing, and in the end decided all churches are cults and have an evil damaging aspect to them even if the do some good. The good to bad ratio varies. Mostly, more bad than good, though. I learned a lot from my "new age" church. It was definitely more interesting and challenging than being a plain christian although no less abusive. Did you see the movie JESUS CAMP? It's like mental child abuse. I think children have a more pure vision of God if they are left to their own devices, exposed to love and learning. I don't think we should be messing up the puriity of the vision of the heart of a small child. I think it is natural to feel spirit and know God in your heart-- unless you are a dead one, of course. Even older children will do what is in them. I was raised without any religion, just music, books and visual arts. In junior high school I wondered about the nature of TRUTH. The existential argument or anti-existential argument as it was, and I didn't even know the word, "existential". I decided there had to be truth, or how could you reason anything, things would not stack up properly without collaspsing. I see it as a mathimatical understanding. Metaphysical personal caluculus. Christians have no problem with being completely illogical at times. I do. I like Jesus. I think he would understand what I am saying

[Il Penseroso]

I see :)
Well do bear in mind I am referring to the younger half of a primary school - approximately from ages 5-9. Naturally, as we age and our minds grow, we develop different ideas. Of course, these images of God are merely to illustrate the stories of the Bible in a simplistic way.


And that, I believe, makes it worse/more insidious, because the children don't know any better, therefore they have no alternative.

Don't even get me started on the "illustrate the stories of the Bible in a simplistic way" idea. :rolleyes:

Are we talking private Christian schools here or public schools?

[LadyW]

Christian Schools; more specifically Catholic Schools...
I'm not at all saying I agree with the usage of this "cartoon God" image by the way. If aything, I think it's a terrible idea...

[blazeofglory]

God! God!! God!!!

It intrigues us. I want a god of my own to guard me against aggressions.
God is a father-figure who protects you against all forces.

A theist is he who is comfortable with the idea that God created everything and
he takes care of all and sleeps soundly. God is his care taker.

God is a father to many.

Everyone has a god of his own and paints the portrait of God with his own imagination.

God is man's next best thing.

God is a domain of belief that sees endless possibilities, the unseen dimension of reality.

[hellsapoppin]

"God is a domain of belief that sees endless possibilities, the unseen dimension of reality."

But it is this same sentiment that has stimulated leaders of various nations to invade others and to justify their actions in this god's name. A benevolent god would not allow or enable anything like this. Moreover, if he didn't create it, as a benevolent master he would have taken preventive measures so that it would not happen.

;)

[blazeofglory]

I can not say what God is and what he was not.
God is something we can not understand and yet we are trying to understand him.

[PeterL]

So, has any definition of any of the Gods and Goddesses come out of this? Or has it not yet been decided which God was being discussed?

[Proust71]

"God is a domain of belief that sees endless possibilities, the unseen dimension of reality."

But it is this same sentiment that has stimulated leaders of various nations to invade others and to justify their actions in this god's name. A benevolent god would not allow or enable anything like this. Moreover, if he didn't create it, as a benevolent master he would have taken preventive measures so that it would not happen.

;)

Does the term "free will" enter your mind at this insinuation? God's granting us the ability to roam and meander as we please also gives man the power to subvert God's name into a conqueror unlike ever seen before. Another fact, albeit a fact based upon Biblical rationalization, is that God does not cajole us in any way except for those already in His grasp, where His will has hegemony over the undulating tides of the human volition. And this will is certainly of better immutability than our own.

[blazeofglory]

God is the only creator.the creator of us,world,universe...
Thank God for providing all we have.

How did you know God did it?

[Redzeppelin]

How did you know God did it?

The same way evolutionists "know" that life randomly developed here on earth via abiogenesis: faith.

[Virgil]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?


Short answer: Digits, mathematics, geometry, calculus, physics.

[brakeonthroo]

The greatest imagination of human's mind

[YALASH]

WHAT IS GOD?
===========

Allah / God is the light of the heavens and earth. Every light that is seen, be it high or low, whether it belongs to souls or pertains to bodies, or it substantive, or attributive, whether hidden or evident, be it subjective or objective, it is a mere bounty of His Grace.

God is the source of all Grace and is the ultimate cause of every light, the Founatin head of all mercies. His being is the support of universe and the refuge of all, high and low. He is who brought everything out of the darkness of nothingness and bestowed upon everything the mantle of being. He exists by itself; all other beings are recipients of His grace.

God is alive from ever to ever. He speaks even now whom He choses to for it. He hears as He used to hear.All His attribtes are eternal and everlasting.He can reveal Himself in dream or in dream-in-awakening or in revelation but he has no body, nor any shape. He is Comprehensive,we have lesser dimensions so He,if he wills, manifest to us in subtle form. He is purest,one has to be pure in thoughts and deeds to get the blessings of His-experience, as He wish.He is sum total of all perfect attributes.He is the One to whom everything returns.All partcles and all souls are made by Him.One can attin Him only by Him.

God creates from nothing. A sample of this is shown in our system of dreams where we tarvel in worlds which are not present in physical worlds. True dreams is faculty, given to us by God so that we can taste the lessons of spirituality. When true dreams are gotten to highest form of purity they become revelation. Prophets get true dreams in the beginning. Then they were blessed with talks or revelations. Life of holy prophets is a mirror in which God reflects.

More aspects of this subject.
=====================
Attributes of Allah / God - Verses from holy Quran about Allah and other aspects - Plz check material about God @ alislam.org/allah

IDEA OF GOD IS NOT MAN MADE.
========================
According to some scholars:

1- The ancient naïve people assumed the natural phenomenon to be manifestations of deities out of fear and greed and their thought process evolved from many smaller gods to a single God while smaller gods existed too.

2- And at a later stage, some people started claiming to have communication with God/gods.


ABOVE THEORY has flaws:
------------------------

1=Thought of such scholars is based on presumption that no God exists. Their assumption is not based on any real research.

2= History of past lifestyles began about 200+ thousand years ago as compared to the actual history of religious development which began hardly some thousand of years in past. Thus, some scholars’ theories about religion’s development are only prefixed suppositions.

3= Greed and fear do not make one to worship. During heavy storms, the ancient man would try to find cover, not start worshiping the storms.

4= When the scientists discuss about evolution, they try to work out the step by step advancement of life through noticeable path back to a billion years but the above mentioned some scholars have not used such scientific methods for their hypothesis about evolution of religion……..There is no proof of evolution in the image of God…...No idolatrous society ever evolved to monotheistic religion!


BELIEVE IN GOD IS NOT EVOLVED FROM SMALLER GODS:
-------------------------------------------------------------

1- Belief of holy Noah in the Unity of God was degenerated by his distant progeny into the earthly myths of many gods by the time of holy Abraham.


2- Holy Abraham, like all prophets, once again launched a huge struggle for the re-establishment of belief in Unity. It succeeded at last, and the torch of Unity was held high by his descendants and others who followed him for many a generation to come.


3- The old fateful trend of decadence set in eventually with the same disastrous consequences…..Within a few hundred years from the time of Abraham, practice of idol worship sneaked in……This continued until the time of Moses.


4- Although holy Moses was an outstanding champion of the cause of Unity among prophets, idolatry kept infiltrating and defiling the faith of his followers during the subsequent centuries.


5- Please remember the claim of some scholars as they said that Unity was evolved from many small gods BUT we observe reverse happenings of human belief decaying from Unity to idolatry.


6- Another example is house of God, built by holy Abraham, dedicated only to the Unity of God. It did not take the idols very long to reenter this illustrious House of God……Except the name everything was changed. It was ultimately occupied by no less than three hundred and sixty idols……There was room for all of them, but no room for God.


7- Eventually, the flag of struggle to re-establish the Unity of God passed on to holy prophet of Islam by revelation. Early followers were dragged on awfully hot sand of Arabia with heavy stones placed on their chests to force them not to testify the Unity of God --- God is One, God is One. This message of Unity of God was forecasted to get rebroadcast to six directions in latter days by holy promised reformer.(@ alislam.org)


8- Now, a question arises. Why message of Unity decays after getting established? Human are born with noble but raw faculties and they have to toil upward towards moral stage of self controls. Then comes the stage in which soul comes to peace with God. This journey within the self requires effort. The message of Unity of God is manifested through His teaching which descends and is revealed upon the most pious person of the time. He single handedly brings the message to people and part of his message is against the popular evils of the time. He gets success against all odds. His message reminds the hearts of people the imprinted-in hearts testimony of Unity of God. That message go through and a society of pious natured people start to cluster around the Man of God. Just as gravity pulls the things which are not held by any support, after long time from that man of God, people start forgetting the teachings and slide down back to raw-state of selves. Message of Unity of God loses its vehicles (i.e. people who previously progressed from raw state to moral state or in peace-with-God state). The result is decay of message of Unity of God. After a critical limit, Unity of God is again reminded.


9- Hence, idea of many gods to One God is not correct. Unity of god descends.

Allah bears witness, being firm upon justice, that there is no God but He and (also do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge. There is no God but He, the Mighty, the Wise. (3:19 HOLY QURAN)

ALLAH IN QURAN.
============
First chapter of Quran:
---------------------

1..In the name of Allah(God), the Gracious, the Merciful.
2..All praise belongs to Allah, lord of all the worlds.
3..The Gracious, the Merciful,
4..Master of the day of judgment.
5..Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
6..Guide us in the right path —
7..The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings,

Last three chapters of Quran:
----------------------------
#ONE
(1) IN THE NAME OF ALLAH,THE GRACIOUS,THE MERCIFUL.(2) SAY, HE IS ALLAH, THE ONE. (3) ALLAH, THE INDEPENDENT AND BESOUGHT OF ALL.
(4).HE BEGETS NOT,NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN .(5) AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.

#TWO
(1) IN THE NAME OF ALLAH,THE GRACIOUS,THE MERCIFUL.(2) SAY, I SEEK REFUGE IN THE LORD OF DAWN.(3) FROM THE EVIL OF THAT WHICH HE HAS CREATED.(4) AND FROM THE EVIL OF THE NIGHT WHEN IT OVERSPREADS.
(5) AND FROM THE EVIL OF THOSE WHO BLOW INTO KNOTS.(6) AND FROM THE EVIL OF THE ENVIER WHEN HE ENVIES.

#THREE
(1) IN THE NAME OF ALLAH,THE GRACIOUS,THE MERCIFUL. (2) SAY,I SEEK REFUGE IN THE LORD OF MANKIND. (3) THE KING OF MANKIND. (4) THE GOD OF MANKIND. (5) FROM THE EVIL OF THE SNEAKING WHISPERER. (6) WHO WHISPERS INTO THE HEARTS OF MANKIND. (7)FROM AMONG THE JINN(HIDDEN) AND MANKIND.

PEACE TO ALL. Thanks.

[Wintermute]

Allah / God is the light of the heavens and earth. Every light that is seen, be it . . . .

Dang Yalash, hehe, that I way to complicated for me. Plus, I don't speak Arabic, so your god and Quran is lost to me.

From my agnostic stand point, God, is a human construct used by humans to dampen their natural fear of death.

Peace,
Doug

[Redzeppelin]

From my agnostic stand point, God, is a human construct used by humans to dampen their natural fear of death.

Peace,
Doug

I personally think death is way less frightening if it is the end of everything. The idea of a "final accounting" for my life here on earth is a bit anxiety-causing. Most people prefer the idea that who they were and what they did here shouldn't matter - and getting rid of God deals nicely with that problem. As Ivan Karamazov said in Dostoyevsky's novel: "If God does not exist, then everything is permitted."

If we're going to say that the "concept" of God is a manipulative device, let's suggest it is to make mankind "behave" rather than make death comforting. But even then, if the "concept" of God is to act as policeman, why make it so hard to do? Why not make it easier? Being a Christian is much more difficult than being a non-believer. It defeats the purpose to construct a concept geared to manipulate people and then make its demands contrary to human nature, don't you think? Wouldn't it make more sense to construct a God and belief system that was easier than non-believing life? Who wouldn't buy into that? As it is, who wants to take on a lifestyle that demands a higher standard of behavior?

[Wintermute]

I personally think death is way less frightening if it is the end of everything. The idea of a "final accounting" for my life here on earth is a bit anxiety-causing. Most people prefer the idea that who they were and what they did here shouldn't matter - and getting rid of God deals nicely with that problem. As Ivan Karamazov said in Dostoyevsky's novel: "If God does not exist, then everything is permitted."

If we're going to say that the "concept" of God is a manipulative device, let's suggest it is to make mankind "behave" rather than make death comforting. But even then, if the "concept" of God is to act as policeman, why make it so hard to do? Why not make it easier? Being a Christian is much more difficult than being a non-believer. It defeats the purpose to construct a concept geared to manipulate people and then make its demands contrary to human nature, don't you think? Wouldn't it make more sense to construct a God and belief system that was easier than non-believing life? Who wouldn't buy into that? As it is, who wants to take on a lifestyle that demands a higher standard of behavior?

Hi Red,

Nope, I don't see why we need a god in order to be good. By my simple and often flawed logic, true happiness can only be realized by treating other folks the way we'd want to be treated our selves. This simple axiom is all that is needed (in my opinion), no supreme creator is necessary.

As always, being agnostic, I could be terribly wrong.

Cheers,
Doug

[Redzeppelin]

Hi Red,

Nope, I don't see why we need a god in order to be good. By my simple and often flawed logic, true happiness can only be realized by treating other folks the way we'd want to be treated our selves. This simple axiom is all that is needed (in my opinion), no supreme creator is necessary.

As always, being agnostic, I could be terribly wrong.

Cheers,
Doug

I agree with your logic - and "simple" is often best. :)

The Christian would respond that human nature is predisposed to "look out for #1" and that serving your fellow man (while very satisfying) is not our first instinct - nor is it easily done, even by those who espouse it. The Golden Rule is a great standard - but it requires a sense of responsibility that I think can easily be dismissed by the Naturalist idea of "life is a jungle - you must struggle to survive - nice guys finish last" etc. We all like the idea of the Golden Rule, but without God, why should it carry any weight whatsoever? What is the benefit of sacrificing for others (which all service requires - a sacrifice of sorts)?

But the more complex answer is that God's existence is not about our behavior. Yes - He provided a book full of guidelines for a better life, but (as I said before) there are much more efficient ways to get people to behave towards each other than fabricating such a being and a corresponding belief system.

[Wintermute]

We all like the idea of the Golden Rule, but without God, why should it carry any weight whatsoever? What is the benefit of sacrificing for others (which all service requires - a sacrifice of sorts)?

Hey Red,

Well, I can only speak for myself. To me, happiness is paramount. And through personal experience I'm convinced that true happiness can only be attained through the spirit of the golden rule. This to me is the sole wisdom provided by the bible and many other sacred texts. If I do harm in order to enhance my physical wealth or for some less obvious motivation then I don't believe I am advancing my quest for true happiness. Deep down, the knowledge that I'd caused suffering in another living being--even if they had hurt me--would cast a mist of discontent which would in turn blemish my overall happiness.

So in response to your question, the benefit of sacrificing for others is the gift of true happiness.

Blessings,
Doug

[togre]

Why does causing suffering blemish your happiness?

I agree that it causes an unpleasantness (guilt?) but why?

[Wintermute]

Why does causing suffering blemish your happiness?
I agree that it causes an unpleasantness (guilt?) but why?

Hi Togre,

Well, being agnostic, I am perfectly comfortable saying: I dunno, it just does. Knowing that any living thing is suffering troubles me--knowing that I am the cause of that suffering diminishes my happiness.

Does this imply a universal creator to you? It may indeed be that an all mighty creator would instill such a property in it's creation. But it might also be an attribute nature would evolve in a species to keep it form wiping its self out. In any event, happiness (for me) does not require a Jewish/Christian/Muslim like creator. It does however require mystery and wonder.

I fully admit I could be absolutely wrong and may be dooming myself to eternity one hell or another.

Peace,
Doug

[blazeofglory]

God is nothing. When you completely emptyyour mind and do not let anything to engag
e it. Let it be totally
blank then I think you
will be close to G
od.


God is nothing. When I say nothing I mean nothing, not a thing that goes blankly. When everything is taken the remainder is God.

God is not what the Bible or the rest of other scriptures describe.

God is a process, a movement, a something we can not capture in our imagination.


Pen, if you, by chance, are referring to my post, then let me explain that I believe that serious things are also ironic and absurd and funny in a way and that you can't talk about serious things without irony or humor and that good jokes also contain a seed of truth in them. Serious and wacky are not opposites in my opinion, they are actually quite similar concepts.
So no offense, Pen.

The concept of of God is absurd - but then, the whole universe is absurd so it doesn't matter much. Common sense is what tells us Earth is flat.


I consider God a Schrödingers cat where the box is closed.

Also, the concept of Eris is practically quite sufficing for a God, because she is a bit wacky herself, plus she probably doesn't exist when she is feeling extra bitc*y. Which kind of suits me.
You are a bit of a syllogistic person and logic is a strong weapon we have and can go on a reverse course and still can assert ourselves.

[mukta581]

above all illusions!!!!

[Mr. Vandemar]

"Knowing that any living thing is suffering troubles me--knowing that I am the cause of that suffering diminishes my happiness."

That is absolutely how I feel. I don't use Christ's teachings because I was told to or because I will be accepted into heaven if I do, I use them because I understand the reasoning behind them and because I have a compassion for living beings. I also do not only use His teachings simply because of my Christian background. I try my hardest to understand all legitimate religions and utilize them for personal and public development. I am very much a modern "relativist". So, in a way, if you wanted to label me you could call me a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, a Shintoist, and an Aboriginal Spiritualist because these are all religions that I know something about and have taken lessons from.

[Dori]

For myself, I have always found this a very difficult concept to grasp. It's a big question:
What is God?
Or maybe the question is:
Who is God?
The media and most primary (Kindergarten) teachers portray God as a jolly old man with a beard. Why?
I know young children who refer to God as "He" or "Him"...
How is it possible for a young child to explore their religion when they are fed this stereotype.

I just felt like replying to the original post. :)

There are several different ways in which people view God. There's deism, henotheism, pantheism, monotheism--there's a lot of -(th)eisms. :D

Deists believe that the almighty God created the universe and that's it.

Henotheists believe that there is a God, but they also believe in the possibility of other existing deities.

Pantheists basically assert that nature (our universe) is synonymous with the term God; thus, God is everything. Here, we have God existing in everything--perhaps even in ourselves.

Monotheism you should pretty much know about; it's probably the most common approach to the term God in Western civilization (perhaps eastern too, though I'm not sure).

Polytheism is pretty much self-explanatory. Think of the ancient Greeks and Romans.

So, we see the term God from different perspectives. Of course, there's a lot more to this than what I've mentioned.

[sun & sky]

I`m a believer , and I don`t want to portray God in my head ..!!

he is the one who creats me & enough .. I don`t portray God because if so I`ll hate these sounds & pictures in my head .. it will ends in many questions in my head which would be a true waste of time .. I believe God shouldn`t have a picture , Just believe

[AimusSage]

You know, Sun & Sky, I once took a picture of myself, and wrote God on it, does that make me god? no it doesn't, so it's okay to have an image of god, but it'll not be god himself, so you can imagine him all you like, it just won't be God.

[scez.]

'God' is a creation of us. We [humans] would like to believe that power is out of our hands, that there is more then simply us, because what kind of world would that be. Lay the blame against someone or thing else.
I look at God as a reflection of what the believer wants from 'Him'. A savior, or hero, if they need it. Insight, if they need it. A man with a beard and holy book, if they so need.
God is only what we make of it. Why else are there so many different Gods, so many different Religeons?
To me, I dont believe in God, I more believe in Vampires and Harry Potter. Because maybe thats what I need.
We fault ourselves, and lay blame on someone other then us, because who can bare to be at fault of the world?

[TuckyTulip]

God is A Heart Beat!

[blazeofglory]

"Knowing that any living thing is suffering troubles me--knowing that I am the cause of that suffering diminishes my happiness."

That is absolutely how I feel. I don't use Christ's teachings because I was told to or because I will be accepted into heaven if I do, I use them because I understand the reasoning behind them and because I have a compassion for living beings. I also do not only use His teachings simply because of my Christian background. I try my hardest to understand all legitimate religions and utilize them for personal and public development. I am very much a modern "relativist". So, in a way, if you wanted to label me you could call me a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, a Shintoist, and an Aboriginal Spiritualist because these are all religions that I know something about and have taken lessons from.

Yes that is positive thinking and if one has it one can feel comfortable with all religions and all people.

[Redzeppelin]

Since most religions are mutually exclusive (ie all claim to have "the truth") how can one be comfortable with all of them? Especially since the "truths" of many religions contradict each other? Either they are all wrong or one is right - but all cannot be right. That is not to say that there aren't valuable things to be found in the majority of religions; it is to say that being "comfortable" with them all really means that none of them have any deep, transcendant meaning to the "believer."

[luqo33]

Redzeppelin, I agree with you for the most part. However, in spite of what you said, one can be comfortable with many religions. Personally, I don't believe in any institutionalized form of worship. Therefore (thinking formally) I cannot be included (and claim to ba a member of) in any earthly church - be it Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or any other as I don't obey, follow, respect, or agree with their directives and the management of faith.
But what if one really worships and believes in the truths and guidelines that were written down in holy scriptues of particular religions. It's a sad thing when such a person realizes that (despite their commitment to the teaching of scriptures) he/she cannot claim to be a part of a congregation of this or that church. It is a sad thing that people are told that man's rulings and the revealed truths are inseperable, that one must accept both, and that there is no other way to salvation (if one hopes for salvation). Certainly, I don't agree with this.
Comming back to the issue of being comfortable with religions. To be comfortable, one must first understand what is the most praised value(s) that one sees in a particular religion, and then put it against values of other religions. If there is a discrepancy and incompatibility, you won't be comfortable with both. The comparison itself is not a difficult task. It is more difficult to understand the essence of a religion. The message of Christianity is love. The messege of Ismal is love. Now I know that I can be comfortable with both of them... no matter who I hear in a mosque or from a pulpit where a priest reads a letter from Vatican.

[priyann]

It is always a very difficult topic to grasp and creates a lot of confusion.The thinking about His existence is always in doubt. but there is certain view in my mind which defines him.God is the principal or sole deity in religions and other belief systems that worship one deity.God is most often conceived of as the creator and overseer of the universe.
priyan

[Neo_Sephiroth]

God is our Father in Heaven.:)

[blazeofglory]

God is something that arrests our attention.

People believe in God but nobody is sure about what it is in point of fact. And we have a picture of God the way we read about it books of scriptures. Nobody has provably seen God.

God has little to do with religions. Religions stir lots of misunderstandings. God is indifferent to all our ideas about it. We generally color up God with our imaginations.

[librarius_qui]

You're talking about God or about god?

I don't correlate necessarily God with Jacob's god ...
I correlate God with the Demiurge, although I sometimes call my god by the generic name of who he is ... God, proper noun.

When I wish to talk about my god, the god I serve, I like to refer to him as god, because it's a common name. And there are many gods! [And we ought to respect other people's gods ...]

The Hebrew god can be "what", all right ... (In old Hebrew, "what" is "manah", which was the name they gave to bread that fell from the heavens on the Israelites, when they had no food ...)

But, according to what I've been learning on his personallity, for the last 10 years, I think you could have the ... policy of asking "who is god?". He'll possibly feel better to be treated as a person, than only as a ... thing. However he says that he is bread, and that, to go to him, you must eat his flesh, all right ...

This is all I know about one god I care about.


librarius
:bawling:

[NikolaiI]

I finally realized what God is, or a good way of descrbing Him.

Most simply, he is one and not one. What is the meaning of one? One's meaning is determined by its relationship to infinity. One and not one only has meaning in relation to the infinite. God is one because there's nothing outside of God, higher than His will. Yet God is also not one; that is, He is incarnated into infinite forms and variations. So nothing has any meaning outside of its relationship to God. Since nothing exists outside of God's will, all is ultimately going to follow His plan. So in this since, there is no evil. God has created a system where the individual doesn't actually need God. That is, the individual needs God more than anything since God created it all, but the individual doesn't need God to directly intervene on his behalf. The system contains the guidebook or the rules. All is simply part of the infinite source. All is a form or some creation of the creative force. It is nothing more than that.

[Rozzy]

To define God is to define what infinite is. God is all in all and made all there is that was made.
The best definition I know of to explain what infinite is goes like this:
If you could step on the edge of a circle and begin to walk along the edge of it or along a line that was drawn to follow it to its end, infinite is when you begin to walk and no matter how long you walk, you will never return to where you started.
The similarity is in that you will never know all there is to know about God.

Because he is infinite and we are finite, the finite will not and can not comprehend all the infinite, but only such as is unveiled to us and such as we are able to grasp.

Rozzy

[mona amon]

God is the one you believe in and pray to in a desperate attempt to have some control over the uncontrollable.

[NikolaiI]

To define God is to define what infinite is. God is all in all and made all there is that was made.
The best definition I know of to explain what infinite is goes like this:
If you could step on the edge of a circle and begin to walk along the edge of it or along a line that was drawn to follow it to its end, infinite is when you begin to walk and no matter how long you walk, you will never return to where you started.
The similarity is in that you will never know all there is to know about God.

Because he is infinite and we are finite, the finite will not and can not comprehend all the infinite, but only such as is unveiled to us and such as we are able to grasp.

Rozzy

Right. And I don't exactly mean that I've realized what God is. Only... I believe certain things are true, for instance that God is the infinte and that everything exists according to Him. You're right the finite cannot fully know the infinite, but it can recognize that it exists within the infinite. So the finite and the infinite have their source in the same reality. It's like we're finite, God's infinite, but God and we are both numbers. Only we are not numbers. :)

[Rozzy]

Quote
Right. And I don't exactly mean that I've realized what God is. Only... I believe certain things are true, for instance that God is the infinte and that everything exists according to Him. You're right the finite cannot fully know the infinite, but it can recognize that it exists within the infinite. So the finite and the infinite have their source in the same reality. It's like we're finite, God's infinite, but God and we are both numbers. Only we are not numbers.

In cowboy terms I could put it this way "We are a chip off the old Block":)

Rozzy

[Trystan]

I finally realized what God is, or a good way of descrbing Him.

Most simply, he is one and not one. What is the meaning of one? One's meaning is determined by its relationship to infinity. One and not one only has meaning in relation to the infinite. God is one because there's nothing outside of God, higher than His will. Yet God is also not one; that is, He is incarnated into infinite forms and variations. So nothing has any meaning outside of its relationship to God. Since nothing exists outside of God's will, all is ultimately going to follow His plan. So in this since, there is no evil. God has created a system where the individual doesn't actually need God. That is, the individual needs God more than anything since God created it all, but the individual doesn't need God to directly intervene on his behalf. The system contains the guidebook or the rules. All is simply part of the infinite source. All is a form or some creation of the creative force. It is nothing more than that.

You are simply playing games with language.

[NikolaiI]

You are simply playing games with language.

No I am trying to communicate what I feel-- which is not felt in words-- into words. And, with you, failing, because you think I am playing games with words.

[Trystan]

No I am trying to communicate what I feel-- which is not felt in words-- into words. And, with you, failing, because you think I am playing games with words.

Right. But if it is also intended as an argument for "God", ultimately, it's about as effective as stamping your feet.

[TheInsomniac]

The argument over god will never end.

God can be a religious ideology portraying the birth of good (god/jesus) and bad (devil), just out of christian beliefs.

Or god can be a personal god, A narrow interpretation of a personal god is a deity who takes a personal interest in the world in general and worshippers in particular. This view is intended to challenge a deistic outlook.

A still narrower definition would be a god whose personal interest in worshippers is so great that the deity communicates directly with them and actively intervenes in their lives through miracles.

We can all agree when i say that god cannot be proven to exist (in all thoughts of matter) and cannot be proven to be non-existant.

Personally i take an agnostic point of view, but swing towards the methodology of atheism a little, you cannot solely base the existence of god over 'Faith' because to put it simply, faith is just the boast of a man who is too lazy to investigate.

[NikolaiI]

Right. But if it is also intended as an argument for "God", ultimately, it's about as effective as stamping your feet.

Hm? Could you explain more?

I mean what specifically about my argument is like this. About the words, sentence, paragraph, structure, meaning or anything specific. I am more than willing to engage you in discussion about my belief- which, to put as simply as possible, is that there exists both the finite and infinite. Please reply with something of content.


The argument over god will never end.

God can be a religious ideology portraying the birth of good (god/jesus) and bad (devil), just out of christian beliefs.

Or god can be a personal god, A narrow interpretation of a personal god is a deity who takes a personal interest in the world in general and worshippers in particular. This view is intended to challenge a deistic outlook.

A still narrower definition would be a god whose personal interest in worshippers is so great that the deity communicates directly with them and actively intervenes in their lives through miracles.

We can all agree when i say that god cannot be proven to exist (in all thoughts of matter) and cannot be proven to be non-existant.

Personally i take an agnostic point of view, but swing towards the methodology of atheism a little, you cannot solely base the existence of god over 'Faith' because to put it simply, faith is just the boast of a man who is too lazy to investigate.

No no, and no one I would respect would ask that you do. In my understanding I am a finite entity, but everything in my ability to discern anything tells me of the presence of the infinite. It's not blind faith in the infinite which would lead me to this- but rather the finite must awaken to the infinite surrounding it, to be able to grow to comprehend it. This is, in my opinion, the basis of all metahpysical and mystical. But then Walt Whitman says the base of all metaphysical is the attraction of friend to friend.

...which raises an interesting question about mysticism; is the faith in what has been startlingly or profoundly revealed in revelation- is this to be considered opening up to a new way of seeing truth beyond what we were previously capable?

[1n50mn14]

For me, personally, I see wonder and creation in everything around me.

I am not religious in a strictly theological, Old Testament-going-to-church-saying grace type, but when I see the complexity and beauty of everything around me, it leads me to beleive in God. God is the stirring in my heart when I walk across the dew on my lawn, and the exubrance I feel listening to music. God is the compassion I can feel, and the love and forgiveness I can excercise.

[subterranean]

Well for Christians the Bibile does refer to God in the masculine, and gives God a very clear male persona even if it does not describe acutal physcial traits. .


Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of Godx he created him; male and female he created them.

As both male and female are created in the image of God, I believe there are both masculine and feminine dimensions of God, even though the Bible refers God with as a 'he'

[subterranean]

Hi Red,

Nope, I don't see why we need a god in order to be good. By my simple and often flawed logic, true happiness can only be realized by treating other folks the way we'd want to be treated our selves. This simple axiom is all that is needed (in my opinion), no supreme creator is necessary.

As always, being agnostic, I could be terribly wrong.

Cheers,
Doug

I believe in God yet I share your opinion; to be good is not an objective to believe in a divine being.

[Guinivere]

Rilke - God speaks to each of us

God speaks to each of us as he makes us,
then walks with us silently out of the night.
These are the words we dimly hear:

You, sent out beyond your recall,
go to the limits of your longing.
Embody me.

Flare up like flame
and make big shadows I can move in.

Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror.
Just keep going. No feeling is final.
Don’t let yourself lose me.

Nearby is the country they call life.
You will know it by its seriousness.

Give me your hand.

[blazeofglory]

This is a question that concerns all of us, and as a matter of fact all of us are inquisitive about our origination and we do not know where we will go after death. Such curiosity, inquisitiveness can lead us to God.