Blame the media

[Bakiryu]

Many people blame the media for the behavior of humanity and the mental changes and devolution we are going through now. But are we right?

Is the media to be blamed for the decreasing values of our youth and the attempt to fit into its portrayal of humanity?

Or are we, the person to blame, in our stupidity by blindly following other's misconceptions?

Rant on.

[Jane Jane]

Well it is not our fault what we are bombarded with since infancy, but the price of growing up is that it IS our fault what we do with that stuff once we know how to think intelligently and can do something about it.

[Bakiryu]

Well it is not our fault what we are bombarded with since infancy, but the price of growing up is that it IS our fault what we do with that stuff once we know how to think intelligently and can do something about it.

yeah but by then it will have influenced our thoughts and our subconscious. altering our decision making.

[Sweets America]

I agree with Jane, I think that maybe when they are very young, human beings can let the media influence their lives sometimes, but I believe that every human being is able to make their own decisions and be intelligent enough not to let the media influence them.

[Sweets America]

yeah but by then it will have influenced our thoughts and our subconscious. altering our decision making.

I believe we can always detach ourselves from what might have influenced us earlier in our lives.

[TeeJay12513]

I believe we can always detach ourselves from what might have influenced us earlier in our lives.

Yes that may be true, but it would take a big event to seperate one from their upbringing, which is most of the time to late to be of any importance in the world

[Pensive]

Is the media to be blamed for the decreasing values of our youth and the attempt to fit into its portrayal of humanity?

Generalizing whether the values of our youth are decreasing (rather than increasing when compared to other previous generations) I think is quite difficult, just my opinion.

[Sweets America]

Yes that may be true, but it would take a big event to seperate one from their upbringing, which is most of the time to late to be of any importance in the world

Yes, but I was only talking about myself. :D I know how different I am today from what I was years ago.

[TeeJay12513]

Well I consider the decrease in values to be due to adults just as much as the media, because about 50% of adults set bad examples for kids ~ drinking to much, adultery, burping, being rude, not being loyal to her majesty(mostly just in Commonwealth countries), cursing and the list goes on. Life has just become too comfortable for humans for a "sophisticated middle/upper class" to continue unfortunantly =(

[Sweets America]

Well I consider the decrease in values to be due to adults just as much as the media, because about 50% of adults set bad examples for kids ~ drinking to much, adultery, burping, being rude, not being loyal to her majesty(mostly just in Commonwealth countries), cursing and the list goes on. Life has just become too comfortable for humans for a "sophisticated middle/upper class" to continue unfortunantly =(

I'm not sure adultery should be put at the same level as burping. :D I see what you mean, but in the meantime the fact that 'adults give bad examples to kids' is not a reason for kids to follow them.

[papayahed]

Generalizing whether the values of our youth are decreasing (rather than increasing when compared to other previous generations) I think is quite difficult, just my opinion.

I'd have to agree. How are you making the comparison between generations?

[TeeJay12513]

I'm not sure adultery should be put at the same level as burping. :D I see what you mean, but in the meantime the fact that 'adults give bad examples to kids' is not a reason for kids to follow them.

haha i know i was just listing things off, and I know its not a reason. However, a reason is that parents who have raised kids from day one(no matter their social class) are telling kids to do what they do in regards to the good things that they do. The problem with this 'monkey see monkey do' teaching style is that kids follow the bad things aswell, sometimes as just plain ignorance to that they shouldant be doing it, or using the 'oh my parents do it so why shouldnt I' way of thinking even while they know its wrong. Children really need to be taught that they cant trust everything they see/hear, whether it be from peers, parents, adults, or even teachers. This may lead to another rebellious way of thinking, but in the end the world will be better for it I believe.

[papayahed]

haha i know i was just listing things off, and I know its not a reason. However, a reason is that parents who have raised kids from day one(no matter their social class) are telling kids to do what they do in regards to the good things that they do. The problem with this 'monkey see monkey do' teaching style is that kids follow the bad things aswell, sometimes as just plain ignorance to that they shouldant be doing it, or using the 'oh my parents do it so why shouldnt I' way of thinking even while they know its wrong. Children really need to be taught that they cant trust everything they see/hear, whether it be from peers, parents, adults, or even teachers. This may lead to another rebellious way of thinking, but in the end the world will be better for it I believe.

So parents are suppossed to teach they're children not to trust them??

[TeeJay12513]

No, more of to teach them to form a sort of moral knowledge barrier between the childs own mind and the constant bombardment of information from the outside world. If that makes sense.

[TeeJay12513]

A sort of pride in their own mind that would keep them safe from the unintelligent minds of the world.

[Bakiryu]

haha i know i was just listing things off, and I know its not a reason. However, a reason is that parents who have raised kids from day one(no matter their social class) are telling kids to do what they do in regards to the good things that they do. The problem with this 'monkey see monkey do' teaching style is that kids follow the bad things aswell, sometimes as just plain ignorance to that they shouldant be doing it, or using the 'oh my parents do it so why shouldnt I' way of thinking even while they know its wrong. Children really need to be taught that they cant trust everything they see/hear, whether it be from peers, parents, adults, or even teachers. This may lead to another rebellious way of thinking, but in the end the world will be better for it I believe.

:thumbs_up

I agree. Trust leads only to blind faith in people and mental toughness must be encourage to sepparete ourselves from the flock.

[Sweets America]

:thumbs_up

I agree. Trust leads only to blind faith in people and mental toughness must be encourage to sepparete ourselves from the flock.

I agree too. I think everyone should be able to do that and I see what Tee-Jay means, about the parents. I guess kids, when they grow up, are able to decide the kind of attitude they like and the kind they don't. Kids are not necessary the mirror of their parents.

[TeeJay12513]

Well all this may be true, why hasent it been achieved yet? We couldant have been the first ones to think about this.

[manolia]

Generalizing whether the values of our youth are decreasing (rather than increasing when compared to other previous generations) I think is quite difficult, just my opinion.

I agree.

Anyway where i find fault with the media is that they are introducing false models for young people. But still, not only media do this ;)

[Taliesin]

Many people blame the media for the behavior of humanity and the mental changes and devolution we are going through now. But are we right?

Is the media to be blamed for the decreasing values of our youth and the attempt to fit into its portrayal of humanity?

Or are we, the person to blame, in our stupidity by blindly following other's misconceptions?

Rant on.



Haven't the youths values always been decreasing? Yeesh, I mean,older people have thought that the youth is going down the drain since ancient times. Nothing particularly new about it, is there?

[Bakiryu]

Haven't the youths values always been decreasing? Yeesh, I mean,older people have thought that the youth is going down the drain since ancient times. Nothing particularly new about it, is there?

yes, but it wasn't as bad as it is today. older people were right but the decrease on values was slow, now 'tis taking leaps and bounds.

[mercy_mankind]

Many people blame the media for the behavior of humanity and the mental changes and devolution we are going through now. But are we right?

Is the media to be blamed for the decreasing values of our youth and the attempt to fit into its portrayal of humanity?

Or are we, the person to blame, in our stupidity by blindly following other's misconceptions?

Rant on.

Bakiryu , That is very good Idea to discuss ,
so Thank you for starting such discussion.
I've to tell you that Media don't care so much with Youth or Values , but it only care with MONEY ,
So You Won't Gain a lot of benefit matters from Media .
Also we couldn't blame humanity alone because simply who use Media is human ,
For me I blame both of them ,
Why we have to believe things we are sure that its shown for benefits ,
and Media , who run on that Media , human , people .
Why they don't have some MERCY and show only the truth and the good Members in Life ?
I blame Media , and every one TRUTH with every thing by Media.
Thanks again,:)

[TeeJay12513]

Hm think on this, each decade the human race becomes smarter (generally), and we advance. Yet as the decades pass, our values become less and less. Could the two be related? Could our higher intelligence be showing us what we couldant see about ourselves 10 years ago?

[dramasnot6]

I saw "devolution" in the first post, where is Lily? :p

We forget that humans are the ones who created "the media", perhaps we blame it because it is the ultimate reflection of us. As a society, we pretty much choose what is represented and presented to us via technology and entertainment. I mean, as individuals we could disagree with it, but it isn't a battle of "People against the media", as it is more "people against themselves".
We shouldn't be targeting the media for change, we should target the actual issues in society, not how they are being presented.

[TeeJay12513]

I saw "devolution" in the first post, where is Lily? :p

We forget that humans are the ones who created "the media", perhaps we blame it because it is the ultimate reflection of us. As a society, we pretty much choose what is represented and presented to us via technology and entertainment. I mean, as individuals we could disagree with it, but it isn't a battle of "People against the media", as it is more "people against themselves".
We shouldn't be targeting the media for change, we should target the actual issues in society, not how they are being presented.

Exactly, and a people verus people argument of course ends in the end of humankind. Respectivly.

[papayahed]

yes, but it wasn't as bad as it is today. older people were right but the decrease on values was slow, now 'tis taking leaps and bounds.


I'm still not convinced. How are you guaging this? Is it actually taking leaps and bounds or does it just seem like it because of the media? When in history has the media been so prevasive?

[Bakiryu]

I'm still not convinced. How are you guaging this? Is it actually taking leaps and bounds or does it just seem like it because of the media? When in history has the media been so prevasive?

well, when you read about people in the past it never was as bad as it is now and the influence of the media was nonexistent, since there really wasn't any media. but just looking at what people read and watch now, you can plainly see the decreasing values of our society and youth.

[papayahed]

Look at Hollywood, there's been drug addicts, and debauchery going on since the industry began. The only difference between then and now is that now the media is there to film it all. And that is why I'm saying its hard to guage whether the society/kids have less values today then in the past.

[Bakiryu]

Look at Hollywood, there's been drug addicts, and debauchery going on since the industry began. The only difference between then and now is that now the media is there to film it all. And that is why I'm saying its hard to guage whether the society/kids have less values today then in the past.

yes, but before people didn't actually follow much of holliwood's examples but now, teen pregnancies are increasing, gang activity is climbing up the charts, children are internalizing what before was accessible only to few.

[papayahed]

You haven't provided any proof that values are declining more so now then in the past only to say the media puts it on TV. The media is in the business of sensationalizing events to make money so is it a true representation of society? There are 300 million people in the US, how many are on TV?

[TeeJay12513]

You want proof of youth intelligence declining? Walk into any publc highschool and ask every student of the 10th grade how to spell family. Statistically, only 65% will spell it right. There's your proof.

Hm, well maybe the bad side of media is only hiding the terrible side of the US? Maybe the druggies on tv are better than a percentage of americans in inner-city enviornments..

[papayahed]

You want proof of youth intelligence declining? Walk into any publc highschool and ask every student of the 10th grade how to spell family. Statistically, only 65% will spell it right. There's your proof.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the assertion that values are declining more rapidly today then yesteryear.


(Sidenote: 1940 only 24% of the population 25 and older had a high school diploma or more; compared to 80% in 2000: http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/phct41/MI.pdf)

[B-Mental]

What about when the media focuses on attractive white women that go missing? Doesn't that exacerbate racism?

[TeeJay12513]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the assertion that values are declining more rapidly today then yesteryear.


(Sidenote: 1940 only 24% of the population 25 and older had a high school diploma or more; compared to 80% in 2000: http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/phct41/MI.pdf)

I think it has everything to do with it. If people cant even spell family how are they expected to tell what is right or wrong? And what is the point of having an eductation if all your going to do with it is throw it away in alcohol and blind patriotism.. I'd rather people be knowledgable of their surroundings any day than them know advanced chemistry yet not know why their country is in a war, or why not to have sex without a condom..

[Shea]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the assertion that values are declining more rapidly today then yesteryear.


(Sidenote: 1940 only 24% of the population 25 and older had a high school diploma or more; compared to 80% in 2000: http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/phct41/MI.pdf)

I can understand your point here, papaya. But didn't the other 76% have other things to do? Weren't they typically busy trying to make a living? The 35% of students who can't spell 'family' (having taught the 10th grade, I believe that this would have been worse in my school) are there because they have to be there. This is why I felt like a glorified babysitter. All they cared about was the latest entertainment that the media could provide them. If they could be given something constructive (like a need to work), they wouldn't have been busy causing trouble, experimenting with drugs, or sleeping school away because they cause trouble elsewhere.

The media gives society what they want, thereby shaping it. When the national news feels that Britney Spears' issues are important enough to report, that's when I had proof that the media has cause much of our society to stop thinking clearly. Her media attention is why she is the way she is anyway. I DON'T CARE ABOUT HER!!! Let her make her bad decisions, and give me things that are important.

[Pensive]

I think it has everything to do with it. If people cant even spell family how are they expected to tell what is right or wrong?

No.

Those who are no good with spelling don't have to be cantankerous gansters. It's just that they are not intelligent in one thing. They can possess some other values like the ability to love, help and be polite towards other people, can't they? Judging whether people have values by their spelling/academic performance is I think totally wrong. Uneducated people can be nice. So can be a teenager who is pregnant at sixteen. Anyway, aside from that, what about those girls in the past who used to get married at thirteen/fourteen? Drugs have always been there too. So has been alcohol. I wouldn't say things have not changed at all, I believe in every moment in every day, we metamorphose in some way or another but saying in a self-assured matter-of-fact way that teenagers today are far worse when it comes to values and other stuff than the previous generations I don't feel is what should be done.

[B-Mental]

Well said Pensive... a very good approach to humankind. I like your way of thinking.

[papayahed]

Yeah Pensy well said.

[kilted exile]

So much to disagree with but so little time.......

Firstly Pensive, is correct I agree fully.

Secondly, take a gander at this thread here - http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16757&highlight=culture


Now, addressing some points currently

1) Moral Values are decreasing/ non-existant in today's youth:

Nonsense, there are still plenty of taboo subjects in youth society. It is just that the taboo's have changed. As an example, previous generations were far more accepting of racism, domestic violence, and discrimination because of gender, religion or sexual orientation. Yes, the current generation is more open about sexuality - but this is not from this generation, that was from the 60's.

2)
but before people didn't actually follow much of holliwood's examples but now, teen pregnancies are increasing, gang activity is climbing up the charts, children are internalizing what before was accessible only to few.

I am willing to accept there are more teen pregnancies, however exact figures are incredibly difficult to compare due to the fact that teen pregnancy in previous generations usually meant getting sent to live with the aunt in another city for a few months till the kid was born. The child was then in the majority of cases raised as a sibling or left at the orphanage - is this a better way to do it?

Gang activity has always been rampant in any inner city area - hell the youth gangs in NY & Chicago during the 20's were the training ground for the mob. The difference is now people are using semi-automatic sub machine guns instead of knives, clubs, poles & chains (except in Glasgow, where we still still prefer to inflict our pain face to face).

Will get to rest of the thread later, work calls........

[metal134]

A few points.

1) The question has been raised as to whether the media is to blame for "decling values", in society, but maybe it's the decling values in society that are to blame for the media.

2) Values are subjective. I hear some people say how horrible it is that there is not as much religious devotion as in the past, but I think that's a good thing and not a bad thing. Many values are pretty universal (i.e., murder and rape is bad, helping a person in need is good), but there are plenty of so called values that people are complaining about disappearing that I have no problem with going by the wayside.

3) The whole "society is going to hell in a handbasket" argument has been going on since the dawn of civilization. Maybe there is more crime going on now than 50 years from now, but we also lived in a society where black people couldn't eat attend certain schools or eat at certain restaurants. And at some point in the distant future, crime will be way down, people will be goody-goody and will still harken back to the good ol' days when people had values. It is a never ending cycle.

[Shea]

I think I just want to go live with the Amish. :D

[Lily Adams]

Can I say both?

I blame the media for being sneaky. Have they no shame?

I blame people for falling for it. You can be educated to overcome all that, you know.

I don't find mass media completely evil, but a lot of it really ticks me off, yes.

[Lily Adams]

I saw "devolution" in the first post, where is Lily? :p

We forget that humans are the ones who created "the media", perhaps we blame it because it is the ultimate reflection of us. As a society, we pretty much choose what is represented and presented to us via technology and entertainment. I mean, as individuals we could disagree with it, but it isn't a battle of "People against the media", as it is more "people against themselves".
We shouldn't be targeting the media for change, we should target the actual issues in society, not how they are being presented.

I made it to the party. *dances poot* :D

Yeah! Right on the dot. I love that last line you just said.

[Bakiryu]

I think I just want to go live with the Amish. :D

Oh me too! My stepfather did for a while and he says it was an enlightening experience.

[papayahed]

Oh me too! My stepfather did for a while and he says it was an enlightening experience.


But they're a pretty religious group.

[Niamh]

Hey kilted you also forgot to mention that only over 150 years ago some 15 and 16 year olds were already married with kids. And a few hundred years before that it was around the age of 12. so anyone who thinks teenage pregnancy is a mdern think, it aint.

[Bakiryu]

But they're a pretty religious group.

yes. their lives remind me of home. It's nearly similar, except for the overly religious part. I wonder how they'd react to an atheist.....


Hey kilted you also forgot to mention that only over 150 years ago some 15 and 16 year olds were already married with kids. And a few hundred years before that it was around the age of 12. so anyone who thinks teenage pregnancy is a mdern think, it aint.

yes, but proper, modern cheap condoms were not available 'til 1930 so it couldn't be prevented. And then, there was the fact that usually you had to marry whoever got you pregnant, 'there weren't as many single mothers as there are today.

crime and rape rates are rising on par as teenage pregnancy rate.

[Niamh]

Also not true. Many were unmarried, and as kilted has already mentioned, sent to stay with "aunts" in far off counties unti the child was born and or fostered by the aunt or given to an orphanage. Some of th mothers where even sent to homes run by nuns and made to do penence for their "sin". Unmarried teenage pregnancies have always been around, Crime rate have always been terrible and so have rape rates. The likes of the media we have today brings it to the attention of viewers. A couple of hundred years ago, they didnt have radio or TV, and not everything was published in the newspapers.

[papayahed]

http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm



The history of condoms

1000 BC
The use of condoms can be traced back several thousand years. It is known that around 1000 BC the ancient Egyptians used a linen sheath for protection against disease.1

100 - 200 AD
The earliest evidence of condom use in Europe comes from scenes in cave paintings at Combarelles in France.2 There is also some evidence that some form of condom was used in imperial Rome.3

1500s
The syphilis epidemic that spread across Europe gave rise to the first published account of the condom. Gabrielle Fallopius described a sheath of linen he claimed to have invented to protect men against syphilis.4 Having been found useful for prevention of infection, it was only later that the usefulness of the condom for the prevention of pregnancy was recognised.

Later in the 1500s, one of the first improvements to the condom was made, when the linen cloth sheaths were sometimes soaked in a chemical solution and then allowed to dry prior to use. These were the first spermicides on condoms.5

[kilted exile]

Also regarding the reference to condoms being available in the 1930's. This may have been the case but they were preached against by the church In fact the Catholic church still has many issues to resolve regarding contraception, it was not used widely & if it was the woman in general had no say regarding the matter. It was not until the "pill" became available in the 60's that women had any real voice regarding contraception. Condoms only really came to prominence after the panic caused by AIDS in the 80's, and there are still far too many people uneducated regarding this who choose not to wear protection.

[papayahed]

Also not true. Many were unmarried, and as kilted has already mentioned, sent to stay with "aunts" in far off counties unti the child was born and or fostered by the aunt or given to an orphanage. Some of th mothers where even sent to homes run by nuns and made to do penence for their "sin". Unmarried teenage pregnancies have always been around, Crime rate have always been terrible and so have rape rates. The likes of the media we have today brings it to the attention of viewers. A couple of hundred years ago, they didnt have radio or TV, and not everything was published in the newspapers.

Another point is that a lot of rape/crimes just weren't reported in earlier times because of the stigma attached.

[Niamh]

Another point is that a lot of rape/crimes just weren't reported in earlier times because of the stigma attached.

exactly!

[Bakiryu]

I was talking about voluntary wantonness but whatever.....(Also, I read the whole wikilink on condoms too, it said the CHEAP, MODERN ones WE USED TODAY)

[Shea]

Also not true. Many were unmarried, and as kilted has already mentioned, sent to stay with "aunts" in far off counties unti the child was born and or fostered by the aunt or given to an orphanage. Some of th mothers where even sent to homes run by nuns and made to do penence for their "sin". Unmarried teenage pregnancies have always been around, Crime rate have always been terrible and so have rape rates. The likes of the media we have today brings it to the attention of viewers. A couple of hundred years ago, they didnt have radio or TV, and not everything was published in the newspapers.

I have mixed feelings on this. My step-mom had this issue, and was forced by her family to give up her daughter when she was 16. (She finally found her again about 6 years ago). It may never have happened at all if her parents had talked to her about sex, but of course, no one ever did at that time. However many parents still don't, and being sexually active is just "accepted" because their favorite tv characters don't have a problem with it either. But a tv character isn't likely to talk about the risks involved.

[Bakiryu]

how did talk about tv and problems became talk about pregnancy statistics and condoms I'll never know. eh, I blame BAKIRYU :p

[Taliesin]

Also regarding the reference to condoms being available in the 1930's. This may have been the case but they were preached against by the church In fact the Catholic church still has many issues to resolve regarding contraception, it was not used widely & if it was the woman in general had no say regarding the matter. It was not until the "pill" became available in the 60's that women had any real voice regarding contraception. Condoms only really came to prominence after the panic caused by AIDS in the 80's, and there are still far too many people uneducated regarding this who choose not to wear protection.

I now feel obliged to refer to this video:


Every sperm is sacred (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8)

[RobinHood3000]

Media influences a person. People, on the other hand, are an entirely different story. The media, much as we like to think of it as an external entity, is composed of people who live in the same society we do. Media reflects the values of society - it rarely influences them. Only the most sensational and most radical (and therefore often the least credible) seeks to alter the popular view to its bidding, and because it's the least credible, it has a much smaller chance of doing so.

Besides, I can't remember the last time I heard of a youth epidemic of watching the news or reading any serious section of the newspaper. By my reckoning, they are not influenced by the media so much as they are by their parents and (by extension) each other.

[Niamh]

:lol: nice one Tal! :thumbs_up

[manolia]

:lol: Brilliant Taliesin:lol: :lol:

[Nightshade]

humm actually I rember watching the original cheaper by the dozen recently its was made in 1950 but was based apparantly on a true story and set in the 20s I think and in it there were comments about 'family planning' and you know there are ways to not have children.

And actually the only real differance I can see is that back at te turn of the last centurey mummy and daddy were forced to marry, and then oh look an earrly baby its a mircal it survived, weve been doing some family history stuff and its amazing what you find, when you start looking at dates.

[DeathAngel]

Hold on, their parents let them watch it, I don't say blame the parents,
but most of our youth stick to different morals, what folk thought of generations before is different from theirs, they idolize rappers, singers, actors, they have their new trends and styles,
tho they aren't the best, it's the "now", it's what everyone else is doing,

And plus, it's not JUST the media, there's so much more,

like Britney Spears who might be pregnant again!

[RobinHood3000]

I dunno, I feel like that might be an exaggerated stereotype of teenagers today. Doesn't seem quite fair.

[Lote-Tree]

Many people blame the media for the behavior of humanity and the mental changes and devolution we are going through now. But are we right?

Is the media to be blamed for the decreasing values of our youth and the attempt to fit into its portrayal of humanity?

Or are we, the person to blame, in our stupidity by blindly following other's misconceptions?

Rant on.

[/quote]

Adolescent they always try to find someone to blame for their inadequacies ;-) it is normal part of growing up :D Nothing to worry about :D

[Pensive]

I now feel obliged to refer to this video:


Every sperm is sacred (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8)

LOL

(Couldn't listen to the song, haven't got sound drivers but checked out the lyrics :lol:)

[dramasnot6]

I made it to the party. *dances poot* :D

Yeah! Right on the dot. I love that last line you just said.

*cracks out the PB&J and plays Planet Earth*

[Lily Adams]

*cracks out the PB&J and plays Planet Earth*

You know me too well...

[Bakiryu]

:lol:

[Lily Adams]

I saw a man on a stage SCREAM! Put me back in my cage!

I live all my life on Planet Earth.

Or how about de-evolution, self-excecution, NO SOLUTION!