Book Recommendation

[Chaos Theory]

Hello, fellow literature lovers. I stumbled upon this site and I love the idea of sharing my passion for literature with others!

Although I have recently developed an interest in dystopian novels, such as Huxley's Brave New World and Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, I have simultaneously developed an interest in long novels of ideas, especially those over a thousand pages. I acknowledge that the length of a book should not be a reason to read a book, but I felt that I needed to challenge myself considering the short length of books that I have read in the past as well as those that I am reading in the present. The longest book I've read was around 550-600 pages, but that was only one book; other books I've read were around 200-300 pages.

Anyways, on with the question: what two books that are around or longer than 1000 pages in length would you recommend? I am definitely going to read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged and Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace. I do enjoy novels that explore various ideas, a criterion that these aforementioned novels meet, according to reviews. But I am stuck with choosing between Victor Hugo's Les Miserables, Miguel Cervantes' Don Quixote, Margaret Mitchell's Gone With The Wind, and Alexandre Dumas' The Count of Monte Cristo. Which two of the four books most meets the criterion of "novel of ideas?" Although I will end up reading all the books I listed, I have set the deadline to read four long novels by May and I know that I will not be able to read all six by then. But if anyone else has any suggestions for long novels (that explore a variety of ideas) that I could read in place of those I listed or in the future, I am all ears.

Thanks in advance! :D

[bazarov]

Don Quixote and Les Miserables; and then War and Peace. Brothers Karamazov are ''only'' 850 but it's also really great, in my opinion better then these 3 mentioned.

Welcome!

[Chaos Theory]

Thank you for your recommendations. I just recently read a brief non-spoiler review of The Brothers Karamazov; the issues explored sound interesting enough to make me want to purchase it.

[Hira]

I just left Don Quixote mid-way, its a brilliant book though. Les Miserables is an excellent book, must-must-must read. Though there are others here who will recommend you better.

[Kafka's Crow]

Read 'Brothers Karamazov' even if you are allowed to read ONLY one book for the rest of the life. Pack 'Brothers Karamazov' and Shakespeare's Works with you when they send you to the Desert Island. Karamazov has to be the most rewarding read ever.

No spoilers but it is a novel of ideas in which various facets of the tumultuous contemporary Russian society are depicted through three brothers, the philanderer, the revolutionary and the priest. There is another brother, a half-brother who is sick. A terrible crime, the most terrible crime is committed, the old man Karamazov (I think he represents Russia) is murdered by one of his sons. There is great court-room drama, a lot of suspense and 'who done it' factor.

Dostoevsky IS the novel of ideas. Read all his works. 'The Idiot' for the depiction of a good soul in a cunning world, the fast-paced 'Crime and Punishment' is Dostoevsky's 'Macbeth'. You must read all three and then read the short novella 'Notes from the Underground'. 'Karamazov' is the best of the lot. I would start with 'Crime and Punishment', move on to 'The Idiot' and wrap things up with 'Karamazov', when the storm is passed, I'll chill out with 'Notes'.

Even Tolstoy can be shelved (all the others are pygmies compared to these two) for Dostoevsky. Follow the plan I outlined above. You will not be disappointed. Along with Socrates, Jesus and Shakespeare, Dostoevsky must be one of the greatest human beings in the history of humanity.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link%5Fcode=qs&field-keywords=dostoevsky&sourceid=Mozilla-search

[Dori]

Les Miserables by Victor Hugo is the only one of your list that I've fully read. I strongly recommend this. I've read the first half of Don Quixote and it was also great. In other words, I agree with bazarov.

[Etienne]

I would consider A Man Without Qualities by Robert Musil, one of the masterpieces of the 20th century, around 1500 pages too.

[Etienne]

Don Quixote, Les Misérables, War and Peace and The Brothers Karamazov are all must-reads and all quite massive.

Let me add a few suggestions in the same vein:
François Rabelais - Gargantua and Pantagruel (The five books)
James Joyce - Ulysses
Marcel Proust - In Search of Lost Time (The seven books)
Robert Musil - The Man Without Qualities
Thomas Mann - The Magic Mountain

[Kafka's Crow]

Don Quixote, Les Misérables, War and Peace and The Brothers Karamazov are all must-reads and all quite massive.

Let me add a few suggestions in the same vein:
François Rabelais - Gargantua and Pantagruel (The five books)
James Joyce - Ulysses
Marcel Proust - In Search of Lost Time (The seven books)
Robert Musil - The Man Without Qualities
Thomas Mann - The Magic Mountain

'Man without Qualities' ordered! Next purchase 'The Magic Mountain'. Before I start Musil's book, I have to finish reading In Search of Things Past and I am on page 375 which means I have well over 2000 more pages to read before this reading project is completed.

[ClickForth]

okokok

[tudwell]

Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace

[katiejkatiej]

I generally prefer authors that say more with less, but you ought to move war and peace to the top of the list. I have a weakness for Russians, but in terms of an idea book, Cervantes, definitely

May I suggest Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace? It's way way longer than my usual taste, and I would call it a character quest book more than idea book. Still, it's quite good. I'm in the middle of it.

[Chaos Theory]

Thanks for the overwhelming responses everyone! This forum is so helpful.

Considering the responses, I have decided to disregard some of my initial choices. I am definitely interested in pursuing The Brothers Karamazov. The other suggestions are wonderful as well; I have put them on a reading list for 2008! If I go on a shopping spree right now, I'd go to Borders! :D

I've heard responses on several of the books that I listed. Has anyone read Count of Monte Cristo? Should I disregard this (for now) as well?

[ClickForth]

okokok

[Oomoo]

Atlas Shrugged? Ayn Rand is of zero literary, artistic and philosophical merit, and this fact is universally acknowledged by all serious critics and writers. Her ideas are laughable (something even mediocre writers won't use as parody), her writing awful, her characters not one dimensional but simply not characters at all. There is no reason in the world why you should read even one page she wrote, except maybe for "negative learning", let alone a 1000 pages novel.

The Count of Monte Cristo I have not read, but I suppose it makes for a good read. I think it is considered an adventure novel: not something that will profoundly change you or make you reconsider life. I don't believe in reading for learning or something like that, but you won't be able to read everything, so I'm not sure if you should read 1000 pages of quality entertainment: maybe you should try something shorter by Dumas before that.

War and Peace I've just finished, and it is one of the finest achievements of mankind, without doubt. However it's not pure "literature" - there are many essays and historical reports. Anna Karenina is not exactly short, but you should read it first. One of my favorites. Nothing beats Dostoevsky and Tolstoy, but Tolstoy is easier and more "literary" (simpler prose, more action, short lines of dialog, more epic in scope in contrast to Dostoevsky's miniatures, etc.).

Ulysses is a very difficult book, and not recommended to someone who is not experienced with stream of consciousness writing and "difficult" books in general.

I've not read Les Miserables. I suppose it's good, but probably very slow. Gone with the Wind I also have not read but really if you're looking for ideas, you'll find them in Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.

[Chaos Theory]

From the messages that I have seen, not only in this thread, but others as well, it appears that there seems to be a consensus that Ayn Rand, as Oomoo put it, "of zero literary, artistic, and philosophical merit." Although I have never read a Rand novel in full, I have attempted The Fountainhead. Lo and behold, I just found out that we would be reading that book in my English course. But from the bits that I read, her work, although not exactly laudable, is not exactly "trash." However, I do agree about the lack of characterization in her novels, insofar. Intriguingly, it appears that my English teacher is in "love" with Ayn Rand (why else would she make it mandatory to read Fountainhead?). In the past, I have only heard good things about Rand. Now, it appears all that I hear about her is negative. That is quite interesting!

Thanks for the cautionary advice Oomoo! I certainly would not want the messages in these books to fly over my head the first time around. Perhaps I shall heed your advice about "warming up" to the author's shorter works to prepare myself. That will be a battle, considering the overzealous being that I am! I have also heard the same advice about Ulysses and Joyce's works in general. But that only piques my interest to read him. :D

[Tersely]

The only two I've read so far 1000+ Pages would be Les Miserables and Gone With The Wind.
Les Miserables is good, I had to read it in french in highschool (really really really short version) but I ended up buying the unabridged English edition and liked it. You have to figure with any 1000+ its going to be a little wee bit tedious and over detailed in some parts. Still good though.
Gone With The Wind I felt I could have just watched the movie it was almost that close in detail. I didnt feel like it helped expand my vocabulary or anything and the only extra stuff it had was useless details bout different characters I could have cared less about. Awell.
I have Don Quixote and Tale of Genji but since I havent read them...can't recommend then quite yet.

[Oomoo]

From the messages that I have seen, not only in this thread, but others as well, it appears that there seems to be a consensus that Ayn Rand, as Oomoo put it, "of zero literary, artistic, and philosophical merit." Although I have never read a Rand novel in full, I have attempted The Fountainhead. Lo and behold, I just found out that we would be reading that book in my English course. But from the bits that I read, her work, although not exactly laudable, is not exactly "trash." However, I do agree about the lack of characterization in her novels, insofar. Intriguingly, it appears that my English teacher is in "love" with Ayn Rand (why else would she make it mandatory to read Fountainhead?). In the past, I have only heard good things about Rand. Now, it appears all that I hear about her is negative. That is quite interesting!

Thanks for the cautionary advice Oomoo! I certainly would not want the messages in these books to fly over my head the first time around. Perhaps I shall heed your advice about "warming up" to the author's shorter works to prepare myself. That will be a battle, considering the overzealous being that I am! I have also heard the same advice about Ulysses and Joyce's works in general. But that only piques my interest to read him. :D

It's not the fact that Ayn Rand is not a canonical novelist (of course she isn't) or that she's respected by some and less by others (like Dickens who many consider sentimental): she is much, much below average, and the average book is horrible. Her so called anti-life "philosophy" - extremist liberal materialism, or something - is easy to grasp and explicitly stated instead of hinted in her books, so she's appealing to teenagers and very popular/populist, but I personally feel physical pain from the mere thought. She's probably even worse than Stephen King and Paulo Coelho.

I repeat my suggestion for Anna Karenina. Unlike those dystopian novels you mentioned (good read, in my opinion, but not truly great literature), in this one the thematic motifs and philosophical ideas are not externally imposed on the characters but rather "grow" out of themselves in a beautiful story full of psychological insights. It's simply amazing how rich this novel is despite its apparent simplicity (plot-wise, it's almost stupid). Oh, and get the Maude translation, not Garnett. It's far superior

[Etienne]

IOh, and get the Maude translation, not Garnett. It's far superior

Maude translation - the only Tolstoy approved translation to English. No questions asked, I'm wondering what's the point of any other translation after that...

[Chaos Theory]

In light of the recent discussion about comparable translations of these aforementioned books, another question came to mind. What are the recommended translations of these books, considering that most of them were not originally written in English. Thanks in advance!

[Chaos Theory]

Would anyone like to share recommended translations of the aforementioned novels? Sorry.

[Oomoo]

Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky are highly acclaimed for Dostoevsky's work. For Tolstoy, the Maudes. Frankly, you don't need anything else. Just read Anna Karenina already!


Maude translation - the only Tolstoy approved translation to English. No questions asked, I'm wondering what's the point of any other translation after that...

Ha! Like he read all these pages of translation :p Plus, who knows - maybe the translation is acceptable and something else could be better? Or, perhaps, they were friends and it's not very nice to disapprove of a work of such a massive scale ...

[Etienne]

Ha! Like he read all these pages of translation :p Plus, who knows - maybe the translation is acceptable and something else could be better? Or, perhaps, they were friends and it's not very nice to disapprove of a work of such a massive scale ...

I do think he did, if not all, at least a couple. Also the Maudes were personal friends to Tolstoy. Tolstoy also said about them: "Better translators could not be invented."

[Oomoo]

Tolstoy and the Maudes became friends before or after they started translating his work?

[Nico87]

Ayn Rand wasn't supposed to be a great author or novelist. She only used books as a platform for her to show the world her ideas. While most people don't agree with her idealogy, many people find it interesting to read about it, myself included.

[superunknown]

You might like Yevgeny Zamyatin's "We." It is one of the first dystopian novels (if not the first, I'm not sure) and a classic of Russian literature not as well acknowledged in the West as it should be.

I read the Anthony Briggs translation of War and Peace because it was given to me as a present and I found it quite good as a whole. I have not read any other translations, nor would I go through such an effort, but I didn't like how Briggs gave some characters cockney accents, or how he removed all the French which Tolstoy put in entirely and wrote it all in English, instead of translating the French in footnotes. The Pevear and Volkhonsky translation apparently rectifies both of these things, and as they are the best translators of Dostoevsky's and Bulgakov's works and they above all other translators attempt to be as true to the original writing as possible, I would get that one personally.

And yes definitely pick up a copy of The Brothers Karamazov. Lots of people mention Crime and Punishment, which is very good, but Karamazov is Dostoevsky's crowning achievement.

[tkkenyon]

I, too, love loooooong fiction. 300 pages is hardly enough to begin a good book.

Middlemarch by George Eliot is an excellent work, if you're familiar and comfortable with the writing style of the time. I read all the Jane Austens before I tackled Middlemarch, and that helped a lot to acquaint me with the conventions and prose style.

Creation by Gore Vidal comes in at a lightweight 590ish pages, but that must be mice type. It's a substantial book, and excellent.

The Harry Potter Saga is several thousand pages.

TK Kenyon

[Nighteyes5678]

But it doesn't need to be said that the Harry Potter is much lighter than most, if not all, than the books mentioned in the lists above. I've just gotten some new ideas, thanks all!

I, personally, loved Count of Monte Cristo and think that you have to read it.

[mortalterror]

1.Don Quixote
2.War and Peace
3.The Brothers Karamazov
4.Tale of Genji
5.Dream of the Red Chamber
6.Romance of the Three Kingdoms
7.Middlemarch
8.Tom Jones
9.Gargantua and Pantagruel
10.Remembrance of Things Past
11.Ulyssese
12.Tristram Shandy
13.Journey to the West aka Monkey
14.Water Margin
15.Anna Karenina
16.Moby Dick

Here are my thoughts. I read Don Quixote and hated it, but that's just because it's not to my sense of humor, and I can see why others like it. I read War and Peace and hated it, but that's mostly because of the essays toward the end of the book, and I hear you can get an addition with those placed after the story. Anna Karenina, I just finished a few weeks ago, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. War and Peace is better. I read half of Middlemarch in college and it definitely started getting interesting at that point. Gargantua and Pantagruel was hands down the most original novel I've ever read and much funnier than Don Quixote. Moby Dick was half Shakespearean novel/ half whaling encyclopedia. The rest I haven't read, but I hear good things.

As far as the Count of Monte Cristo is concerned, I read an abridged version a dozen years ago and loved it. But Dumas' Three Musketeers is even better. I read Les Miserables last year, and it is wonderful, but uneven, especially toward the end. What you will find with most longer works is that they have a lot of cool things about them, and a lot of bad things as well.

A cautionary word about Dostoyevsky. His characters pontificate. They don't talk, they lecture. They aren't very true to life, like Tolstoy's characters, but you did say that you wanted a novel of ideas. So there you go.

[kiki1982]

Has anyone read Count of Monte Cristo? Should I disregard this (for now) as well?


Oh, that was absolutely fantastic, if you like action. Vistor Hugo was rather philosophical and also very deep. Dumas is rather about action, action and more action. I absolutely loved it: revenge, politics, intrigues... I couldn't stop reading for the last 400 pages, and I never have that... I even wanted to get my students out of the class so I could read on.
Then again I couldn't stop reading Hugo, but for another reason. Not wanting to know the end but rather being concentrated.
The three Musketeers, Twenty years after and The Vicomte of Bragelonne is a musketeer trilogy of Dumas, also more than 1000 pages I suppose.
The Lord of the Rings is also huge. I cannot say anything about it as I didn't read it, but it's different to the film.
The Cronicles of Narnia is also quite long as I recall. Never read it so can't really comment.

[Mockingbird_z]

hey =)
i am so surprised to see how much you all read ! and whats more amazing is that you (not all of you BUT) like russian literature, i am impressed because even the native speakers very seldom have that much admiration to Dostoevsky or Tolstoy (well some people wouldnt even want to read "the brothers Karamazov" just because of the volume!) as you have (according from your notes).
thank you very much. i myself have read very little from Dostoevsky but now I am ashamed of how little I know about Russian writers and how little i have so far read.
I must make up for what i have missed.