Why this and not that?

[ShadowID]

I'm new here. Here goes nothing :D

The following is a very short poem I wrote in June 2006:

Start:

Mediocrity
I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like apple juice.

:End

It's a rather short poem. But I don't think I could possibly change it in any way. I'm not necessarily asking whether or not the poem is good. I'm trying to understand why have I chosen these words out of the other possible infinate combinations of words. Heck, maybe I subconsciously stole the idea from someone else! That'd be a sad conclusion :bawling:

For example, consider the following possibilities:

(1)
I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like orange juice.

(2)
I have learned to accept my mediocrity.
It tastes like apple juice.

(3)
I have
learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like
apple juice.

For the first case, I don't very much like the imagery of "orange juice" to symbolize my "mediocrity". But why? Why is apple juice more mediocre than orange juice?

For the second case, I certainly feel that a 2 line sentence is rather short for something so bland (mediocre, hehe). But to say "I have learned to accept my mediocrity" in one sentence doesn't have the same emphasis as "I've learned to accept...." and then "my mediocrity."

In the third case is similar to the second case except that it breaks the poem up even further. To me, the third case is a horrid mess. I want to throw up when I see it.

But am I making all of this up in my head? Is there any truth to it at all? I'm no literature or poetry buff so I'm not so sure. I'm terribly afraid of being too subjective and hindering my growth as a writer and a poet. Can anyone shed some light for me?

Why this and not that?

Thank you.

[PrinceMyshkin]

First of all, Why this and not that is a great question! 2nd of all, apple juice occurred to you as the essence of mediocrity for some private personal reason of your own. It will work for some readers, not for others. That's about the best we can hope for.

Ramble around here. There is surely some stuff that will turn you on and prompt you to write more. Welcome and good luck.

[ShadowID]

First of all, Why this and not that is a great question! 2nd of all, apple juice occurred to you as the essence of mediocrity for some private personal reason of your own. It will work for some readers, not for others. That's about the best we can hope for.

Ramble around here. There is surely some stuff that will turn you on and prompt you to write more. Welcome and good luck.

Thank you for the welcome and for your words of encouragement.

Just a simple question: Do you agree with apple juice? Or would you suggest another juice or beverage? What is YOUR beverage of mediocrity?

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thank you for the welcome and for your words of encouragement.

Just a simple question: Do you agree with apple juice? Or would you suggest another juice or beverage? What is YOUR beverage of mediocrity?

Nothing comes to my mind but apple juice does very nicely, because it is so widespread. If you had said orange juice as you thought of doing or grapefruit juice - which I love - I might have reacted against that, thinking of something freshly squeezed.

[CdnReader]

Gotta love it when the epilogue is eight times as long as the poem that made the questions arise in the first place, even if the questions are asked by the author him/herself.

Your poem "Mediocrity" -- and your lengthy thoughtful post -- has left me wondering if you have more.... poems, that is.

Welcome to LitNet, ShadowID.

[ShadowID]

Gotta love it when the epilogue is eight times as long as the poem that made the questions arise in the first place, even if the questions are asked by the author him/herself.

Your poem "Mediocrity" -- and your lengthy thoughtful post -- has left me wondering if you have more.... poems, that is.

Welcome to LitNet, ShadowID.

Haha. Thank you for the welcome.

The length of my epilogue is the reason for the brevity of my poem. Imagine trying to ask the same question with a 4-8 line poem!

I have more poems here and there. But I am wary as to the choices I make for the words, the sentence structure, etc. I'm not sure why I make the choices I make. Or, more importantly, I am not sure why some people's choices are lauded as great (Emily Dickinson, T.S. Elliot) while others are criticized as poor (Random person here and there).

[ShadowID]

Nothing comes to my mind but apple juice does very nicely, because it is so widespread. If you had said orange juice as you thought of doing or grapefruit juice - which I love - I might have reacted against that, thinking of something freshly squeezed.

What about milk?

I have a feeling that the syllables of "milk" won't fit the poem as well either.

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like milk.

Yuck :sick:

You are right that apple juice is a personal preference. But is it a personal preference for all people? Only people similar to me? Only people who have lived with apple juice as a common juice of choice? Perhaps only Americans or only westerners? Is there an eastern translation?

If I were to change the poem in any way, I feel that it would ruin it horribly. It's almost like a math equation where there is one set of answers and only one set.

Weird :alien:

[amanda_isabel]

hello shadowID, and welcome!

first off i liked the simplicity of your poem. and with regard to your questions, they made me think. it also got me thinking that there should be like a branch of philosophy or something that dedicates itself to the study of the artistic mind. but anyway, i think philosophy is a good place to start if you really want answers to your questions.

apple juice does nicely, really. milk would have a different effect. the first thing that popped into my head (especially that i just came from the nudity thread) was a mother's milk...so i guess the inference is, that mediocrity is inherent, or something taught, whatever along those lines.

i have to agree with PrinceMyshkin though, that these come from personal preferences. if you check on Freud, his work would tell you that these impulses (since i do believe that poets use raw impulse when writing) are influenced by something in your past, whether you are conscious of it or not.

you'll want to do further study if you really want that question answered, like i said earlier, and even then, the answer would still depend on you.

hope i was able to help, in my own, disorganized, microscopic way.. again, welcome!

[motherhubbard]

Citrus can’t be mediocre.
Neither can berry or cherry
But apple, apple is the very essence
Of mediocrity, unless, of course,
It is green apple.

I think that celery is also mediocre

Welcome- I think you’ll like this place

[ShadowID]

hello shadowID, and welcome!

first off i liked the simplicity of your poem. and with regard to your questions, they made me think. it also got me thinking that there should be like a branch of philosophy or something that dedicates itself to the study of the artistic mind. but anyway, i think philosophy is a good place to start if you really want answers to your questions.

apple juice does nicely, really. milk would have a different effect. the first thing that popped into my head (especially that i just came from the nudity thread) was a mother's milk...so i guess the inference is, that mediocrity is inherent, or something taught, whatever along those lines.

i have to agree with PrinceMyshkin though, that these come from personal preferences. if you check on Freud, his work would tell you that these impulses (since i do believe that poets use raw impulse when writing) are influenced by something in your past, whether you are conscious of it or not.

you'll want to do further study if you really want that question answered, like i said earlier, and even then, the answer would still depend on you.

hope i was able to help, in my own, disorganized, microscopic way.. again, welcome!

Thank you for your welcome.

Interestingly enough, I also participate in a philosophy forum that is similar to this one. I liked the forum style of communicating ideas so I figure I'd go into the literature side of the world (I find my creative writing and poetic side starved for some fun).

Unfortunately, you are right, there is no school of thought that tries to study the artistic mind. When I try to talk to friends who are literature/poetry majors about this topic, they are generally satisfied with how things are.

So for the concept of "mediocrity", what beverage would be your choice?

[ShadowID]

Citrus can’t be mediocre.
Neither can berry or cherry
But apple, apple is the very essence
Of mediocrity, unless, of course,
It is green apple.

I think that celery is also mediocre

Welcome- I think you’ll like this place

I thank you for your welcome.
Your grace is shown in your poem
of mediocrity and fruits and apples.

I flex my poetry humbly,
in hopes you find me gregariously
playful with my poetic reply to you.

[amanda_isabel]

Thank you for your welcome.

So for the concept of "mediocrity", what beverage would be your choice?

apple juice is perfect. :D

[ShadowID]

apple juice is perfect. :D

Thank you.

You got me thinking. If, in fact, apple juice is "perfect" for this particular poem, then it implies that there is a connection between apple juice and the concept of mediocrity. It may be culturally based or possibly gastronomically based. Perhaps in a different culture that has never tasted apple juice but is very aware of mediocrity, they will be able to taste some apple juice for the very first time and say, "Ah HA! That is mediocrity at its finest!"

Maybe, with all this analysis, the important question isn't the why. Even if a perfect answer to "Why this and not that" is obtained, it doesn't detract or add to the "perfection" of apple juice to mediocrity.

And perhaps, with all my thinking and analysis, the beauty of this thing we call "poetry" is that a profound understanding of both apple juice and mediocrity can be established in a minimalist poem. How many words, paragraphs, pages, books can be written about mediocrity (let alone apple juice)! And to sum it all in a 3 line poem? To sum any concept in 3 lines is a great feat indeed!

Maybe that's what poetry is all about: Elegance.

Wow. My 2nd day here and I'm already wowing. Thanks :D

[blazeofglory]

You are a light on to yourself, for you resource from the same source as everybody does.

You are original in your idea, and if continue writing the way you did you will perfect the art of writing and of course you are impeccably inventive an imaginative and your domain is your own and un-trespassed.

Literary theories are plenty and there are no particular theories that are good to hinge on and one opposes the other.

Do not run after theories and write the way you did and your original ideas are good enough.

[amanda_isabel]

Thank you.

You got me thinking. If, in fact, apple juice is "perfect" for this particular poem, then it implies that there is a connection between apple juice and the concept of mediocrity. It may be culturally based or possibly gastronomically based. Perhaps in a different culture that has never tasted apple juice but is very aware of mediocrity, they will be able to taste some apple juice for the very first time and say, "Ah HA! That is mediocrity at its finest!"

Maybe, with all this analysis, the important question isn't the why. Even if a perfect answer to "Why this and not that" is obtained, it doesn't detract or add to the "perfection" of apple juice to mediocrity.

And perhaps, with all my thinking and analysis, the beauty of this thing we call "poetry" is that a profound understanding of both apple juice and mediocrity can be established in a minimalist poem. How many words, paragraphs, pages, books can be written about mediocrity (let alone apple juice)! And to sum it all in a 3 line poem? To sum any concept in 3 lines is a great feat indeed!

Maybe that's what poetry is all about: Elegance.

Wow. My 2nd day here and I'm already wowing. Thanks :D

:D glad you find the forums so enjoyable.

the reason i told you that apple juice was perfect was because this your impulse. had you followed someone else's, you could not call the poem yours.

i also agree with you about the spacing, by the way. sometimes i go back to a poem i've written a day or two back and change the spacing. i wonder what effect that has, since in poetry if there's no comma or what you're just supposed to read through and through. any theories?

[TheFifthElement]

Mediocrity
I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like apple juice.



Hi ShadowID, welcome to Lit-net.

I think the concept of mediocrity is personal, I wouldn't class apple juice as mediocre, but then this is not my poem. Yours raises interesting questions, which is the essence of poetry. Why do you find apple juice mediocre? This is the question it raises in my mind.

And in answer to yours 'why this and not that', I say, why not?

My mediocrity tastes of coca-cola.

[Pensive]

Here we refer to 'orange juice' as 'sour' so I think the poem can have a great effect if you go with it...

[Adesaria]

Heyyyyyy ShadowID! ^^
Apple juice. C'mon, think about it. All apple juices tastes the same -- it's alot to think about. Like, you take a sip, and it kinda tastes like water, but with flavor. Know what I mean? It's got this little sharpness to it, but otherwise, it's pretty bland. Apple juice is just that -- Mediocre.
HOWEVER, orange juice is all... flavorful. It has this wonderfully sunny kind of taste that explodes into your mouth, and a texture too.
In the end, apple juice is perfect. =) heheh

Like the poem! ^^

[ShadowID]

:D glad you find the forums so enjoyable.

the reason i told you that apple juice was perfect was because this your impulse. had you followed someone else's, you could not call the poem yours.

i also agree with you about the spacing, by the way. sometimes i go back to a poem i've written a day or two back and change the spacing. i wonder what effect that has, since in poetry if there's no comma or what you're just supposed to read through and through. any theories?

I pay very close attention to spacing. My "theory" on it is that every line must be read together. When a new line starts, there should be a reason you wish to emphasize the first word of that line and the last word of the previous line. Let me show you an example:

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like apple juice.

The first line should be read, "I have learned to accept". The importance of this sentence (to me) is that I have learned and I have accepted. If I were to split the sentence like so:

I have learned
to accept

It would imply that I have learned. And what I have learned is to accept. It would make the reader feel that there are future things I have learned or future things I have accepted. This is not the case. The "learned" entity is the "acceptance" of.....

The second line is "my mediocrity." I feel that this line should stand on its own because it is the cruz of the (very short) poem. It is my mediocrity that I dwell on. The concept stands on its own line.

The third line is "It tastes like apple juice". If I were to break it like this:

It tastes
like apple juice

It would emphasize that the concept of mediocrity tastes like certain things and that this taste stands on its own two legs. I may go into how medocrity smells, or how mediocrity feels but I don't. I wanted to put it all in one sentence "It tastes like apple juice", because I'm so "mediocre" I don't see anything past the simple description.

I could also break it like this:

It tastes like
apple juice

Here, I emphasize the tasting "like" something, not so much the sense of tasting. Apple juice stands on its own. However, if I were to read the poem like so:

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like
apple juice.

I feel I de-emphasize the "It tastes like apple juice" and emphasize too much on the two entites "it tastes like" and "apple juice". I don't wish to separate these two concepts becaue they are one in the same.

I do this a lot in my poems. I "super analyze" them in how I want the reader to read it. Every line can stand on its own or connect with the previous lines. I try very hard to work with syllables (this poem has 7,6,6).

Do you agree? Disagree? How do you space your poems?

[ShadowID]

Hi ShadowID, welcome to Lit-net.

I think the concept of mediocrity is personal, I wouldn't class apple juice as mediocre, but then this is not my poem. Yours raises interesting questions, which is the essence of poetry. Why do you find apple juice mediocre? This is the question it raises in my mind.

And in answer to yours 'why this and not that', I say, why not?

My mediocrity tastes of coca-cola.

Would you class apple juice as "fancier" than coca-cola or "duller" than coca-cola?

Do you drink coca-cola a lot to deem it mediocre?

Perhaps it's not so much that I find apple juice mediocre. Maybe I find mediocre apple juice (apple juice as an "adjective") :p

Maybe the poem is really saying

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity
It's not so bad.

Does the concept of something tasting like apple juice invoke the idea of "it's not so bad"?

What if a friend came up to you and said, "OMG, you HAVE to try this" And you say, "What does it taste like?" Your friend says, "It tastes like apple juice." What would your response be?

[ShadowID]

Here we refer to 'orange juice' as 'sour' so I think the poem can have a great effect if you go with it...

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity.
It tastes like orange juice.

It could possibly work. However, I'm not sure the sour connotation would be what I'm looking for. I don't find mediocrity (after I have learned to accept it) particularly sour. But if I did, orange juice would fit nicely, along with lemon juice and some sour candies.

So maybe all poems are really personal things. And we should not be nosing into other people's personal business. Therefore, we should never, ever, read poetry!!!! :p

lol. jk.

But if all poetry is personal in nature and the preferences are personal, then why is some poetry good and other poetry bad? Do people's personalities fit better than others and therefore, the more people you are similar to, the more popular you are?:eek:

[ShadowID]

You are a light on to yourself, for you resource from the same source as everybody does.

You are original in your idea, and if continue writing the way you did you will perfect the art of writing and of course you are impeccably inventive an imaginative and your domain is your own and un-trespassed.

Literary theories are plenty and there are no particular theories that are good to hinge on and one opposes the other.

Do not run after theories and write the way you did and your original ideas are good enough.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

[TheFifthElement]

Would you class apple juice as "fancier" than coca-cola or "duller" than coca-cola?

he he, neither. Coca-cola is coca-cola, apple juice is apple juice. It is the personal history associated with the drink which makes it mediocre or otherwise and that is what interests me. Your poem makes a statement, a clear association between mediocrity and apple juice. I wonder, what is it in this person's history which makes them make this association?


Maybe the poem is really saying

I have learned to accept
my mediocrity
It's not so bad.

Does the concept of something tasting like apple juice invoke the idea of "it's not so bad"?

I think this is where difficulty lies, it will invoke different things for different people. For example, I will always associate blackcurrent juice with throwing up; this is due to a personal experience unique to me. However, many people will associate blackcurrent juice with childhood, or other things. If you're looking to invoke a distinctive feeling then you probably need to give more of a history, so people can see a clear association, but I like the fact that the poem is more of a question than a statement, even though it is stated as a statement.


What if a friend came up to you and said, "OMG, you HAVE to try this" And you say, "What does it taste like?" Your friend says, "It tastes like apple juice." What would your response be? I would say 'eh', and wonder what had happened to my friend ;)