If God told you to kill someone would you do it?

[Metanoia]

If it was truly god speaking, you knew it for sure and you could feel his presence. If God imparted devine knowlege to you of the nessesity of this deed, would you kill somenone?

[Granny5]

If it was truly god speaking, you knew it for sure and you could feel his presence. If God imparted devine knowlege to you of the nessesity of this deed, would you kill somenone?

I'd commit myself to some mental hospital until 'God' stopped talking to me.
Then I'd watch out for the next person 'God' talked to and do my best to stay away from them.

[Etienne]

Well, I'd probably tell him to **** off.

[bibliophile190]

Well, the issue wouldn't really come up would it? That would contradict pretty much everything Christianity is based on. I'm assuming you mean the Christian God, if not, sorry.

[AdoreroDio]

If it is the Christian God then maybe it would be like Abraham and Isaac- God told Abraham to kill his only son Isaac as a sacrifice. So that's what Abraham prepared to do- had the knife raised up and everything when God sent a lamb to take his place and told Abraham that only because of his great faith Isaac would be spared. I doubt God would ask something like that without having a plan in mind.

[Pendragon]

I am wondering about the reason for the question. I could never kill in cold blood. There would have to be a very valid reason where the death of the person in question was the only option. If God told me to kill an innocent, I would require plenty of proof that I was truly speaking to God, and not loosing my mind. I am afraid that I would be what Jesus called "A wicked and adulterous generation.", because I would require an absolute sign. Life is sacred as I said, and only if there were no choice could I kill...

[FacialFracture]

If I believed so completely it was like knowing that God wanted me to kill someone, and I "knew" the killing was of some divine importance...I like to think I'd do it.

The thing is, I'm a very lapsed and largely faithless former Christian, so right now I "know" that God probably doesn't exist, and that if he does, he wouldn't be asking me to kill people, and this, to me, is reality. Within this reality, it's doubtful that I'd even kick someone in the shins on God's command--"God's command" isn't mutable to me; it's non-existent.

...However, if I woke up tomorrow morning with boundless faith and absolute sureness that God was asking something of me (however horrible it might sound), I hate to think that I would shirk on a responsibility to the Almighty; within the confines of a reality where I "know" that God exists, and I "know" that he's asked something of me, I would think it very stupid to ignore his request.

[AuntShecky]

If you were thinking of the Abraham/Isaac story from Genesis, which one replier did address, you may remember that God changed His mind at the very last second. Talk about your dramatic effect! It reads like a cliff-hanger scene in a movie serial.

When we read about tragedies, murders or mass murders committed by poor deranged souls they often cite that they heard "voices," which perhaps is a symptom of schizophrenia.

The God in Whom many of us profess to believe would never make such a request -- it is a categorical contradiction that the REAL living God would ask one of his children to disobey a law that He Himself enacted: "Thou Shall Not Kill." So if someone trying to pass himself off
as God tells you to go whack somebody, that guy is an imposter.

The actual danger arises when governments or societies throughout history have waged wars, the Inquisition, or similar witchhunts with the belief that God is on "our" side. It has often been stated that much evil in the world has been done in the name of religion.

And take it one step farther -- beyond murder to Death in general. Every time I go to a funeral and somebody solemnly states "It was God's will," I want to choke the person! Who are we to presume that we know what God's will is?

[Niamh]

no i wouldnt. Thou shall not kill.

[Wintermute]

Pen said: "I would require an absolute sign."

Hi Dale,

I told some other fellow I would stop posting in this forum because I was offending folks. But, I do love to read the posts here, so I've just been lurking. I was really intrigued by your statement and I just wanted to ask what you would consider an absolute sign? How could you be absolutely certain it wasn't your mind (or satan for that matter) playing tricks with you?

Doug

[mazHur]

If people could kill themselves at the signal of Hitler, why would they be ashamed of doing their duty to God if God ordered them to kill someone!
don't you think God is the highest Court, the Apex judgement, The most Wise ??

I think you have started foolish thread

[Pendragon]

Pen said: "I would require an absolute sign."

Hi Dale,

I told some other fellow I would stop posting in this forum because I was offending folks. But, I do love to read the posts here, so I've just been lurking. I was really intrigued by your statement and I just wanted to ask what you would consider an absolute sign? How could you be absolutely certain it wasn't your mind (or satan for that matter) playing tricks with you?

DougDoug, I will be absolutely honest. I go nowhere without a knife on me, a phobia left over from a stab wound I carry on my back. Were I to fly anywhere, my first purchase in the new place would be a knife to carry.

However, if I thought God was telling me to kill a person, I would throw the weapon as far as I could in a random direction. If God wants this person dead by my hands, He can bring me the knife back. I won't hunt for it. It doesn't return to my hand, I don't kill anyone. And the blade will be marked with a thought I have in my head.

mazHur, no, I don't think killing if God tells you to do so would be so bad, but killing because others who present no proof that God spoke to them say "God says kill." is a horse of a different color.

We are warned in the Bible about people who will say, "Yeah, God hath said, when God hath not spoken."

God Bless

Pen

[mazHur]

Pen, I take your point but what would you do in self-defense or in the battle field or while persecuting a man according to state laws? It IMPLIES that God has told you to finish him off !

Why don't you sell me your knife,,,I need one for cutting veggies !! lol

[Redzeppelin]

I'd commit myself to some mental hospital until 'God' stopped talking to me.
Then I'd watch out for the next person 'God' talked to and do my best to stay away from them.


Well, I'd probably tell him to **** off.

Both of these comments essentially avoid the issue by simply responding as if God does not exist. Which, of course, wasn't the question. The question requires the presupposition of the existence of God.


If people could kill themselves at the signal of Hitler, why would they be ashamed of doing their duty to God if God ordered them to kill someone!
don't you think God is the highest Court, the Apex judgement, The most Wise ??

I think you have started foolish thread

Why would you put Hitler and God into an analogical relationship? Yikes.

Name-calling is unnecessary and generally counterproductive to discussion (I should know...).


Pen, I take your point but what would you do in self-defense or in the battle field or while persecuting a man according to state laws? It IMPLIES that God has told you to finish him off !

Why don't you sell me your knife,,,I need one for cutting veggies !! lol

No - your "cause-effect" suggestion doesn't ring true. Self-defense or serving one's country cannot be construed to be an implicit instruction from God to kill.

Questions like that at outset of this thread resemble the old "Can God create a rock so big He couldn't lift it?" question. Before you can pose such questions, you have to ask if such an action is consistent with the character of God. With the exception of Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac (a long-standing discussion here), the Bible does not give us reason to believe that this is something God tends to ask people. And, as I've said in the Abraham thread, the request to sacrifice Isaac was a test. I do not believe that God would request that I kill someone - though I could understand being impressed to use deadly force under certain circumstances - but I don't think God would ask such a thing. In the OT He did, on occasion, command the destruction of an enemy of Israel, but that was always done collectively as a war.

[mazHur]

God has His own ways of manifestation. He has ordered and He continues to do so, either through His revelations, visions or other means. We are just there to obey Him. Hitler was no exception---right or wrong. So many wars are being fought in the name of God and innocent people killed. Is there no one to tell them what they are doing?? Ask them and they will say :God has commanded them to do so but all is illusory. Man kills man for his own vested interest.
As for me I would not disappoint God if He comes to me and explicitly tells me to kill someone!

[Taliesin]

Schizophrenia is fun, don't you agree?

[Pendragon]

Pen, I take your point but what would you do in self-defense or in the battle field or while persecuting a man according to state laws? It IMPLIES that God has told you to finish him off !

Why don't you sell me your knife,,,I need one for cutting veggies !! lol

Well, mon ami, you have managed to get a smile and chuckle out of me on what has been a bad morning! I'm a collector of bladed weapons, and the knife I carry changes from time to time. I stick strictly to the code of our home State in carrying a knife, over a three inch blade is a weapon and may no be carried in any way that conceals it. My knife of choice at the moment is a 4 inch stiletto made by Ridge Runner knives. It clips to your pocket so that it is in view. I also carry a Gerber mini-multitool which has a small inch and a half blade. I carry it for the scissors. My pocket amulet piece has a small inch long blade.

I can't see any one chopping veggies with a stiletto. You might use my arrow-head fist blade. D shaped and can roll, I've chopped veggies with it myself!

Self-defense or defense of one's country is a God given right, I believe. I would have a hard time following the orders of a despot intent on enslaving and destroying others for no reason though. Response to attack is different.

God Bless

Pen

[mazHur]

Pen

That;s what I wanted you to do ,,,,chuckle !

You have elaborated what I wanted to say.

I don't carry any knife sort of thing,,,,,,no need

best

[Metanoia]

Pen said: "I would require an absolute sign."

Hi Dale,

I told some other fellow I would stop posting in this forum because I was offending folks. But, I do love to read the posts here, so I've just been lurking. I was really intrigued by your statement and I just wanted to ask what you would consider an absolute sign? How could you be absolutely certain it wasn't your mind (or satan for that matter) playing tricks with you?

Doug

Any sign that is absolute to you, whatever it may be, so no doubt lingered in you mind as to your Gods pressence and will. Good point tho- how could you be certain it wasn't your mind or satan. How is anyone who speaks with God certain it is God?

[Pendragon]

Any sign that is absolute to you, whatever it may be, so no doubt lingered in you mind as to your Gods presence and will. Good point tho- how could you be certain it wasn't your mind or Satan. How is anyone who speaks with God certain it is God?You learn to try the spirits, as the Bible says to. And yes, it is difficult, the Bible tells us Satan can transform into an Angel of Light and that Satan has his own "ministers" to twist the word of God and make it of no effect. The first thing I do when I think God is dealing with me is to forget all about it. I can almost hear other religious people scream. There is method in this madness. The same thing will return again. I ignore it still. When I sit down to study for a sermon, I pray and open the Bible with eyes shut. It almost always turns to a scripture that deals with the subject that wouldn't quit bothering me all week. Then other verses just come flying like arrows. I look them up, type them down, with a couple remarks that I really want to get across. When it comes time to speak, I surrender myself to Him. From just a few scriptures and a comment or two, I have spoken for an hour. No one even thought of leaving, nor have I ever been told I preached to long. I don't depend on me. What I know and understand is really not the issue. The issue is what God can do with what I know and understand.

If the thought never comes back, when I've let it pass, I didn't need it anyway.

Please understand this is what works for me. I do not say it would work for everyone. I make no doctrine out of it.

God Bless

Pen

[mazHur]

Pen

You may be right from the point of view of Christianity and the teachings of Bible but the topic relates to a Universal God.........

In some religions Satan cannot acquire the form of an angel or a prophet. How would then Bible would suffice to justify that ??

[Walter]

Was the intent to create a question that had only one answer?
Then that's the answer to the question asked. Right?

[Pendragon]

Pen

You may be right from the point of view of Christianity and the teachings of Bible but the topic relates to a Universal God.........

In some religions Satan cannot acquire the form of an angel or a prophet. How would then Bible would suffice to justify that ??My Friend, I do not set aside easily the teaching of other religions. When there is disagreement, I have always sought common ground. Yet I will say that our Adversary, Satan, a fallen angel himself (I believe Lucifer, I have also heard a case for Samiel), is not bound by how our religion may view him, any more than man can chain God by traditions. And I will leave it at that, hoping to give offense to none.

God Bless

Pendragon

[mazHur]

Nice argument, I appreciate

A rose is a rose
A thorn is a thorn
by whatever name you called them !
That's fair enough.

[AuntShecky]

You have a good mind, MazHur. You choose HUGE topics.
Wow.

[mazHur]

thank you, Auntshecky.
BTW do you think you are older than me or some other fellas here to be called as Aunt? Is that your age and high clibre that makes you put your name that way or are you a reeeal Aunty? I am really confused.;) :D ;) lol

[NickAdams]

Has anybody seen frailty?

[mazHur]

yeah, it is right there in front of me !

[PanzaFan]

I was drawn to this topic against my will and must reply.
If God needs my help "offing" someone he isn't much of a God is he and therefore should not be listened to.

[mazHur]

I wonder if someone could deny and defy god if He orders him........

[PanzaFan]

)Not at all assuming the previous post to be personal but wishing to clarify my own sarcastic thoughts) I do believe in the God that is and would not deny or defy him. But neither do I believe that He would or could order me to kill someone, as that is against the nature of him, whom I believe in. If he did it would destroy and undermind my faith in him rendering me useless.

[mazHur]

but dont you think that by disobeying god you would be committing a major sin ??

[Bakiryu]

Well, first I would commit myself to a mental institution. But if "GOD" gives me proof that he/she or it is god it first would need to provide some cash, preferably in the form of a swiss bank account in my name.

Then said God would also need to provide weapons and a form of disappearing from the country. :D

If God can't get me any of this stuff, then it wasn't very much of a God to begin with and I should really begin taking my medicines, am really drunk or should never have smoked that weed :p

[mazHur]

no, no, you cannot think of god that way. God doesnt like mercenaries,,,,,
If he orders you you have no choice but to obey Him like a soldier obeys his general,

[Bakiryu]

no, no, you cannot think of god that way. God doesnt like mercenaries,,,,,
If he orders you you have no choice but to obey Him like a soldier obeys his general,

yes, but soldiers still get payed.

[Scheherazade]

Probably yes... Only after asking him what took him so long, of course; the list has been getting too long!

[jon1jt]

No, if there's killing to be done then let him do it himself. Let's not forget he's god, he shouldn't be lazy.

[mazHur]

He pays his 'children' in the hereafter. Then men construct his (soldiers) statue
showing him seated on a horse with horse's both feet up, one up, all down, ,,, any pose the mercenary likes .God os the Granter, He gives,,,you dont have tha capacity to take !

[PanzaFan]

but dont you think that by disobeying god you would be committing a major sin ??

It would be a sin I would have to ask forgiveness for and believing as I do, I know that I would be forgiven for not obeying and my merciful God would find someone better equiped to obey him than I am if it was really something he needed done. The whole idea is really too much for me because any "absolute" sign I might be given to lend credit to the command would also be in question in my mind. Again by the simple fact that the God I know does not ask people to commit murder however justifiable it may or may not be. Which sin would be worse murder or disobediance? Well they are both disobediance therefore these questions have no answer. At least not one that is unarguable "right".

[Bakiryu]

He pays his 'children' in the hereafter. Then men construct his (soldiers) statue
showing him seated on a horse with horse's both feet up, one up, all down, ,,, any pose the mercenary likes .God os the Granter, He gives,,,you dont have tha capacity to take !

is all well to get rewarded in the hereafter but his children need to eat in the here and now. If god wants somebody to actually kill another person he should think of those person's families.

I don't even believe in god anyway. (no offense intended.)

[mazHur]

Disobedience is sin. A soldier is field court martialed for disobedience.
One ought not feel cowardly in obeying His God's commands. He may order but
only in 'special circumstances'' . For example when a child is born, God doesnt feed him with his own hand, his (baby's) mother does !

no.no. we have to revere command of god ,,,,,,,if we trust in Him

[mazHur]

i think the state does take care of the families left behind..........He will take care of them, don't worry. What if someone suddenly dies, then who takes care of his family,,,,,,,,,God, ofcourse, and using state as an instrument

[PanzaFan]

I agree that disobiedance is sin but how do we determine which command to follow? Surely if you are listening to the Christian God of the Bible you have heard that you should not kill. Besides your government surely says don't kill (i hope). Does your God (whom ever it is) not require you to obey those He puts in authority over you. He did put you in the land and home he wanted you in. (I am sure you believe this.) So how can you justify not obeying so many other commands? How do you decide which is most important to listen to? Or do you believe "Special Circumstances" apply in this instance and provide impunity to those other laws? I am sure a person's government would not agree. So you have effectively killed yourself by doing this and it is your family that suffers and is dependant on that very state you insulted for their lives. I truely believe a person should seriously doubt their sanity and their God if he asks such a thing of them. So back to my original statement I could not do it and do not think it should be done.

[Bakiryu]

i think the state does take care of the families left behind..........He will take care of them, don't worry. What if someone suddenly dies, then who takes care of his family,,,,,,,,,God, ofcourse, and using state as an instrument

the state doesn't even care for the homeless! you even need money to go into a hospital!

if people don't work for themselves, god will not work for them.

[mazHur]

no, you cannot disobey God,,,,God is God , any God.

Sometimes you have to kill other person ''legally''. For example, a soldier is ordered by his commander to kill his enemies; an executioner happily executes a criminal; a soldier happily goes to war to kill his enemies. Thus, supposing God orders you to kill you have to because that's a divine command. Bible says do not kill but it doesnt say at which occasion or under what circumstances ?? It is natural for any believer to kill unless he disobeys. So, if you disobey Him you will be a big sinner. Atleast for me it is very hard to digest the idea of disobeying and disappointing God if He does come and ask me to act.
think it over !!


the state doesn't even care for the homeless! you even need money to go into a hospital!

if people don't work for themselves, god will not work for them.
__________________

True , that's what God commands us to do when he asks us to kill!

Naturally, you pay to the hospital folk and they pay to others,,,,,this is cyclic with everything,,,,so why be concerned so much about hospital fee? Dont you pay an engineer, an architect, a florist, an undertaker, a comedian, etc for their services???

[Bakiryu]

no, you cannot disobey God,,,,God is God , any God.

Sometimes you have to kill other person ''legally''. For example, a soldier is ordered by his commander to kill his enemies; an executioner happily executes a criminal; a soldier happily goes to war to kill his enemies. Thus, supposing God orders you to kill you have to because that's a divine command. Bible says do not kill but it doesnt say at which occasion or under what circumstances ?? It is natural for any believer to kill unless he disobeys. So, if you disobey Him you will be a big sinner. Atleast for me it is very hard to digest the idea of disobeying and disappointing God if He does come and ask me to act.
think it over !!

If any god ordered me to kill I would disobey or kill myself. I'd rather spend a million years in hellish torment than end another life.

Soldiers are nothing but legal killers and war is a heinous crime.

I'd rather be a sinner and kill myself than obey any deity that orders me to do something so disgusting and inhumane as killing anyone or anything.

Ending a life, no matter how young, how insignificant is murder. And so is killing in the name of a god.


True , that's what God commands us to do when he asks us to kill!

Naturally, you pay to the hospital folk and they pay to others,,,,,this is cyclic with everything,,,,so why be concerned so much about hospital fee? Dont you pay an engineer, an architect, a florist, an undertaker, a comedian, etc for their services???

does a florist save a life? stop the bleeding? transplant a heart? Any services understaken to save and preserve a life should be free.

Even back home we have free hospitals and graveyards for goddess sake. And flowers are the fruit of the earth, which should be shared or low price for the unlucky and the poor or those who starve in the street.

[PanzaFan]

I have thought it over as you suggested and I come up with the same solution as I did before. I do find it hard to believe that you think soilders and executioners are "happy" about their duty. Anyone that happily takes another life is on the wrong end of the gun. How do you know you have received a divine command and not just thought up something that you think is a divine command? Besides I am a big sinner anyway and don't believe there exists one who is not. We will all have things to pay for. Since I believe all sins are equal why quibble about it. I can't be perfect no matter what I do.

[mazHur]

Soldiers are nothing but legal killers and war is a heinous crime.

Wow, this is tantamount to terming a good thing bad! soldiers are not mercenaries; its their duty to kill enemies to save their country and poeple.
Similarly, God who is the Supreme, may also give exress order to shed blood. No one has any reason to disobey Him if he's a believer and has faith in Him, be he from any school of thought or religion.


I would disobey or kill myself.

dont you think this is a heretic statement? :D :flare: A sin the dirty terrorists are committing. No, no, you cannot think about killing yourself. please dont say that ..:D That is a dreadful thought. Better obey God so you get rewarded in the hereafter.:D


How do you know you have received a divine command and

Man, we are presuming...........will you then??

[Bakiryu]

How are you saving your country by invading defenseless countries only because they have something you want? By making children starve and women die?
God has no right of telling anyone to shed another's life. Saying god has a right to tell you whom to kill because he, she or it gave you life it's like saying your parents can tell you whom to kill also. Can they?

Murder is a good enough reason to disobey anyone. Why would I owe a killer my fealty?

Killing yourself a sin? If someone has a right to kill you because god told him to, then why not take your own life before that person can? I have a right to die if I want to.

I rather survive in the here and now than in the thereafter which no one has proven exists.

[mazHur]

you smack of Buddhism,,,,,,,,,,and obsession of harakari?

We cannot question God. We are bound to obey His commands. That's faith , maybe not yours.

Why do you then kill animals?? Are they not living things??

[Bakiryu]

you smack of Buddhism,,,,,,,,,,and obsession of harakari?



Nope, I'm afraid. I'm not affiliated to any major religion.
I guess I'm a bit suicidal.



We cannot question God. We are bound to obey His commands. That's faith , maybe not yours.


why?



Why do you then kill animals?? Are they not living things??

I see you haven't talked to me before. I'm a vegetarian and promoter of animal rights. Killing animals is murder as well.

[mazHur]

I don't see any reason to indulge with anyone who doesn't have faith and is 'suicidal'. He wouldn't kill in the name of God but rather die a dog's death for his own erratic judgment......that makes me quiver !

[Scheherazade]

Since this has turned into a discussion of persons involved, rather than the question posed, this thread will now be closed.