Gas Prices

[applepie]

Today the price of a barrel of oil went up to almost $97. So, what is the price of gasoline where you are at? Are you doing anything to counteract the rising cost of oil products? How does it affect you?

For me gas is up to $3.19 a gallon for 87 octane. I've seen it worse here in Washington, but it has also been much better. I still remember when I started driving, not even 10 years ago, in Ohio I was only paying 97 cents a gallon. I was furious when it rose to $1.20 per gallon, and now I could only wish that the price would drop. I'm considering buying a hybrid type vehicle when I need a new car. They're coming out with new ones that are quite nice, and they aren't any more expensive than some of the other cars. Anyhow, for us the rising price of gas is a big deal with two cross country drives coming up. I'll also be paying to fill up the tank on a Bronco when I get home to Ohio. I'm flying, but my dad is going to let me borrow his truck until spring when my hubby can drive my little Dodge Neon out. The only thing is, it doesn't get the best gas mileage, and I'll be paying something like sixty or seventy dollars to fill the tank as much as once a week:sick: It means that there is less moeny for entertainment in our house. We find that we'll stay around the home more, and find things near by to do. We take the kids to the playground and park instead of going camping 2 hours away. I can't even tell you the last time I left the island here, and it is only an hour or so to get off. All the little extras go out the window when the price begins to soar. So what do you do?

[Virgil]

Lucky for me I work in New Jersey which has had consistently among the lowest prices in the country. Yesterday I think I paid $2.82 pr gallon. That's about 40 cents cheaper than New York.

[motherhubbard]

The price of gas is a big deal for me and it effects us more than just at the pump. Milk, corn products, plastics... everything is more expensive. They say that it isn't changing people's driving behavior, but it does mine! We are very rural here first of all. It's two miles of dirt to the highway then twelve miles into town. Public transportation is not really an option here. We make all of our driving count. When I'm not in school I only make one trip to town a week and sometimes manage to go ten days. I take as many classes as I can on-line and that helps, but I do still have to drive into school. I'm like you, Meg. I often think about how much gas was when I started driving. I remember the first time I had to buy gas I hated to part with that .74 a gal. That was nearly 20 years ago, and I was a smoker then. I could go to a FULL service station and fill up and get a pack of Virginia Slims for ten bucks! Then when gas got up to 1.20 I thought we would all go broke for sure! I filled up on Monday and it was $51.05- that's half of a hundred dollars!! We'll never see 1.20 again. There is less driving and less money. I wish everyone would/could drive as little as possible, and carpool and try to conserve. I believe we should all start moving toward sustainability. I think that is just good stewardship of our resources, including money. I worry about families trying to live on minimum wage. I don't know how you could pay the rent and buy milk and gas and medicine- it's just too much for that kind of money. I'm also concerned about the effect ethanol production will have on the poor. Corn is in just about everything Americans consume. Bread and cereal, sweeteners, oils, feed for cows, pigs, poultry... my fear is that when the poor are competing against corporate America, food will loose to fuel.

[applepie]

I have to agree Motherhubbard. We notice the difference in prices here as well. In the last six months my grocery bill has risen an extra hundred dollars a month because of the gradual increases in prices. It's only ten cents on the pound here, and a dollar there, but it adds up quick. I know diapers have gone up about $3 a pack just since I had my daughter. All the bits are adding up to be a significant increase in the overall costs, and on one income it makes things tight. I've town kind of close here, it's only a couple miles away. All we have is the grocery stores and Wal-Mart for shopping. Where I grew up I was used to much much more, but I'm not willing to drive to the nearest larger area. On a good day it will take 45 minutes, and that is to only go maybe twenty-five or thirty miles. I would be happy to see the price stay where it is and just not go any higher. I don't count on it happening, but it would be nice. We'll never see the days of $1.20 gas again, but it would be great for it to stay at one price.

[bibliophile190]

Hey, another Washingtonian! Anyways, yeah, it's like $3.15 here. Horrible.

[B-Mental]

Umm, I drill for oil for a living, I spend roughly 35 dollars a month on gas, because I'm offshore working most of the time. I think prices are like $2.76 around now, but its been several weeks.

[Shalot]

When I first graduated, I moved in with my husband's family (free rent, cramped living space, out in the country - he was the there to offer assistance with his elderly uncle)

We'd been there a while, driving 30 miles a day into town to work, thirty miles back. Then the gas prices rose. And at that time, it was about $1.82 a gallon. (I remember when it all started and I was excited to see a station with 87 at $1.13 and I told everyone I could about my great find)

Some things happened within his family, and it was time for us to move anyway, not to mention, the gas bill was too much to pay for a 60 mile drive everyday, so we moved closer to town and saved a bunch on gas. our first apartment was a dump - low rent, so I think we actually came out ahead - the gas bill was more than rent in a dumpy apartment :eek2:

But, since then, the gas prices have continued to rise. The food bill is beginning to get on my nerves...I was annoyed when i saw that a pack of processed cheese was just under $5.00. That's crazy. If I stop off for a few key items (bread, milk, etc...) I end up spending a lot more than I used to.

So, yesterday, I was trying to think about how I could eat cheap - soup and beans were suggested, but I am not so big on beans. I like the taste, but not the side effects. So I came across this article about this British guy who came up with a way to grow no-fart beans. So far, I haven't seen them on the shelves yet (and the price would probably be jacked-up anyway)

But I digress. The price of gas has certainly impacted my life. The next car I buy will have to get better gas mileage (but that won't be for a while!!!)

[motherhubbard]

Umm, I drill for oil for a living, I spend roughly 35 dollars a month on gas, because I'm offshore working most of the time. I think prices are like $2.76 around now, but its been several weeks.

that's hard work. I'm under the impression it's not such safe work either. Am I right?

[papayahed]

I paid $2.89 down in Baton Rouge yesterday. Last year I went from a V4 to a V6 in addition to the price increase - boy was I in for some sticker shock. I went from filling up my tank for $20-25 to $40.

[Granny5]

I drive 35.7 miles one way to work. I've been offered a job that's an hour further at a higher salary but I can't take it because I'll end up losing money because of the price of gas. (I wouldn't take it anyway but that's a good excuse) It was 2.89 a gal for reg. one day, then 3.09 the next. There is no mass transportation in our area, either. oh well, gotta work.

[Scheherazade]

I live in the UK and pay £0.90 per litre (ie pay £40 to fill up the tank).

[papayahed]

I live in the UK and pay £0.90 per litre (ie pay £40 to fill up the tank).

That comes out to $7.15/gal. :eek: It didn't seem right, so I checked for gas prices around the world and CNN has UK listed at $5.79.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

[NikolaiI]

papayahed, I burst out laughing when I saw your avatar and user title, that's hilarious! :lol: :p

So is this an increasing speed of inflation, then?

[applepie]

I don't think I would call it inflation at all. It is an increase in demand that is driving the price up. The overall oil consumption for the world has increased by over 6 million barrels a day according to one site I looked at, and it was only up to date until 2005. The demand has continued to increase since. The higher the demand, the higher the price will go on the market. I think that it is part of the reason for all the research into alternative fuels. I know many say it is for the environment, but I find it hard to believe that decreasing the dependancy of the U.S. on oil is not part of it as well.

[NikolaiI]

But isn't that the definition of inflation- when demand increases so that prices go up, and money becomes worth less? Although, I suppose we have to print money for it to happen, as well.

[Scheherazade]

That comes out to $7.15/gal. :eek: It didn't seem right, so I checked for gas prices around the world and CNN has UK listed at $5.79.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/Well, whether it seems right or not, that is how much I have been paying where I live (though I know it is cheaper in Midlands - only by couple of pences).

And that is for the ordinary petrol... Not those super-duper, enhanced types.

[papayahed]

Well, whether it seems right or not, that is how much I have been paying where I live (though I know it is cheaper in Midlands - only by couple of pences).

And that is for the ordinary petrol... Not those super-duper, enhanced types.

I believed you, I wasn't sure if my conversion factors were correct.

[kilted exile]

When I filled up this morning it was at 97c CDN/Litre which is $1.03 US (thats $3.90 US/US gallon) & 49p/Litre. The whole thing has a "gouging" element to it. The price seems to go up immediately when Oil goes up - but takes forever to go down again when oil goes down. Also the recent change in the canadian dollar now being worth more than the US counterpart has had no effect on gas prices either.

[motherhubbard]

Well, whether it seems right or not, that is how much I have been paying where I live (though I know it is cheaper in Midlands - only by couple of pences).

And that is for the ordinary petrol... Not those super-duper, enhanced types.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this in my mind and I'm sure I'm missing something. I know the dollar is worth less. What is the L.90 equal to in US dollars. also like every good American I have no clue how much a liter is. What is that in gallons? I guess what I'm asking is how much is a gallon of gas in US dollars there and how much would a gallon of gas be if the L was equal to the dollar? Does anyone know? I really worry about the value of the dollar.

[Shurtugal]

all i have to say about the price.... EVIL!!!!!!!!

[applepie]

But isn't that the definition of inflation- when demand increases so that prices go up, and money becomes worth less? Although, I suppose we have to print money for it to happen, as well.

I was thinking of inflation in terms of an unnaturally high value on the dollar that consequently means it is worth less or has less purchasing power than it previously did.

[kilted exile]

I'm having a hard time reconciling this in my mind and I'm sure I'm missing something. I know the dollar is worth less. What is the L.90 equal to in US dollars. also like every good American I have no clue how much a liter is. What is that in gallons? I guess what I'm asking is how much is a gallon of gas in US dollars there and how much would a gallon of gas be if the L was equal to the dollar? Does anyone know? I really worry about the value of the dollar.

Some quick & useful sites

currency (http://www.xe.com/ucc/)

volume (http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm)

[papayahed]

I'm having a hard time reconciling this in my mind and I'm sure I'm missing something. I know the dollar is worth less. What is the L.90 equal to in US dollars. also like every good American I have no clue how much a liter is. What is that in gallons? I guess what I'm asking is how much is a gallon of gas in US dollars there and how much would a gallon of gas be if the L was equal to the dollar? Does anyone know? I really worry about the value of the dollar.


That comes out to $7.15/gal. :eek: It didn't seem right, so I checked for gas prices around the world and CNN has UK listed at $5.79.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

the British Pound is equal to $2.10 USD (this morning when I checked)

And there are 3.785 Liters in 1 gallon.

[mtpspur]

Thursday of last week paid $2.87 a gallon in Fairborn. Today paid $3.12.

[motherhubbard]

the British Pound is equal to $2.10 USD (this morning when I checked)

And there are 3.785 Liters in 1 gallon.

YIKES! I didn't realize it had dropped so low. you guys are so stinking smart! Thanks to Papaya and Kilt for the education.

[Virgil]

Thursday of last week paid $2.87 a gallon in Fairborn. Today paid $3.12.

Yeah mine jumped today too. I think it was around $2.90 in New Jersey.

[motherhubbard]

Yeah mine jumped today too. I think it was around $2.90 in New Jersey.


the British Pound is equal to $2.10 USD (this morning when I checked)

And there are 3.785 Liters in 1 gallon.

OK, so I'm going to round off for ease here

if a pound is around $2 and a gallon of gas is roughly $3 then that would be 1.5 pounds for a gallon. Now (if a fancy L is a pound) four Liters at .90 pounds about four pounds, but would be about eight dollars a gallon. Why is it so much more there?

[Virgil]

OK, so I'm going to round off for ease here

if a pound is around $2 and a gallon of gas is roughly $3 then that would be 1.5 pounds for a gallon. Now (if a fancy L is a pound) four Liters at .90 pounds about four pounds, but would be about eight dollars a gallon. Why is it so much more there?

Taxes. Actually Britain is an oil producing nation. They have plenty of oil off the North Sea. Actually taxes provide our government with more money than the oil companies make in profit.

[papayahed]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2000/world_fuel_crisis/933648.stm

Holy Carp, the UK pay 188% in gas taxes.

The tax on US gas on average is 0.62/gal but differers by state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

http://www.londongasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

[Virgil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2000/world_fuel_crisis/933648.stm

Holy Carp, the UK pay 188% in gas taxes.

The tax on US gas on average is 0.62/gal but differers by state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

http://www.londongasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

So when some politician calls the oil companies (who only make a few pennies per gallon profit) greedy, think about who is the real greedy one.

[papayahed]

So when some politician calls the oil companies (who only make a few pennies per gallon profit) greedy, think about who is the real greedy one.


You're being facetious right? I haven't heard of too many oil company not making profits.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/07/bloomberg/bxtotal.php

[Virgil]

You're being facetious right?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/07/bloomberg/bxtotal.php

No. It's still pennies profit per gallon.

[Granny5]

Exxon made record profits the last two quarters so they ain't hurting. But, they also spend billions on exploration. I believe that if gouging is going on, it's on a local level. The gas companies don't need to cheat to make money. As long as we drive and heat our homes, they'll do fine. Pennies on the gal. when we are using as much as we do add up to lots of profit. But, that's what they are in business for. We don't expect other companies to NOT make money just because we buy their product, do we?

[Virgil]

Exxon made record profits the last two quarters so they ain't hurting. But, they also spend billions on exploration. I believe that if gouging is going on, it's on a local level. The gas companies don't need to cheat to make money. As long as we drive and heat our homes, they'll do fine. Pennies on the gal. when we are using as much as we do add up to lots of profit. But, that's what they are in business for. We don't expect other companies to NOT make money just because we buy their product, do we?

True. My point originally was if oil companies are making only pennies per gallon and the US governments (local and federal) are making over sixty cents per gallon on average, who is doing the gouging?

[Shalot]

What about E85 Ethanol? We have one station in town that I know of with an E85 pump. I was so excited when they put it in, and it seemed like there was a buzz around it for a while.

It's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline and it's made with corn or other grain products. Anyone got any opinions on this stuff? I guess if we have a drought, that could cause a problem...

Also, it seemed like the price per gallon wasn't much less than regular gas so I was kind of disappointed in that.

[Granny5]

I don't know much about ethanol, but it seems like I've read that it takes so much energy to produce it that we wouldn't save that much on it. I know they are using a lot of it in South America according to 60 mins or some mag. show like that.


True. My point originally was if oil companies are making only pennies per gallon and the US governments (local and federal) are making over sixty cents per gallon on average, who is doing the gouging?

Funny how government never looks at it like that.

[motherhubbard]

Like I said before, if there is a contest between the rich getting gas and the poor getting food I think the rich will win. This is what worries me about ethenol production.

[Virgil]

What about E85 Ethanol? We have one station in town that I know of with an E85 pump. I was so excited when they put it in, and it seemed like there was a buzz around it for a while.

It's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline and it's made with corn or other grain products. Anyone got any opinions on this stuff? I guess if we have a drought, that could cause a problem...

Also, it seemed like the price per gallon wasn't much less than regular gas so I was kind of disappointed in that.


I don't know much about ethanol, but it seems like I've read that it takes so much energy to produce it that we wouldn't save that much on it. I know they are using a lot of it in South America according to 60 mins or some mag. show like that.


I've certanly have been very sckeptical of the efficiency of ethanol. To me it seems to be a handout to the farmers to make corn. Without question the prices of corn and other vegetable oils have gone up dramatically in the last couple of years because so much is now going to make ethanol. It is a good backup for if and when oil runs out, but right now the planet is still saturated in oil. I have seen estimates that we have not even used 20% of all the oil supply in the planet over the last hundred and fifty years we've been using it. So why ethanol? Here's a site that gives the pluses and minues of ethanol with about a net plus: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2006/tc20060519_225336.htm.

But notice this little paragragh:

Is ethanol cheaper than gas?
Surprise, surprise, it isn't. The move this spring by more regions to use ethanol means that demand has spiked, driving up prices. On Monday, the New York harbor price was around $3 per gallon compared with about $2.28 for gasoline (before being mixed with ethanol). In other words, for now ethanol is helping to increase prices at the pump, not to push them down.

Again so why ethanol?

[papayahed]

Wasn't ethanol supposed to alleviate our reliance on foreign oil?

[Shalot]

Wasn't ethanol supposed to alleviate our reliance on foreign oil?

Yeah, i read that somewhere. For some reason, I was thinking using ethanol at the pump instead of gas meant consumer savings, but it's not much cheaper than 87 octane so that's no good. And, a gallon of it won't take you as far as a gallon of gas.

but on a positive note, it's supposed to reduce emisions. But, it takes a lot of energy to produce ethanol. so I guess E85 kind of sucks

[Virgil]

Wasn't ethanol supposed to alleviate our reliance on foreign oil?

I guess, but I don't see the logic. (1) We have an abundance of oil off shore and even on mainland and in Alaska. Environmentalists have put a stop to more exploration. (2) Reliance on foreign oil is a nice slogan politicians throw (by both sides) but I fail to see where the oil producing nations are screwing anyone. They are trying to put out as much as possible. It's that China and India have modernized and so with their large populations have driven the demand up. And we as a country have made a conscious decison to not restrict our drilling for environmental reasons.

[NikolaiI]

I was thinking of inflation in terms of an unnaturally high value on the dollar that consequently means it is worth less or has less purchasing power than it previously did.

Yeah, same here. I don't mean it will become worthless overnight; but a dollar today buys what a penny would 60(?) years ago. And prices are going up. It's reasonable to expect at some point a hundred dollars will have the buying power a dollar had a couple years ago. That's all I'm saying. And gas prices going up is just part of that.

[papayahed]

I guess, but I don't see the logic. (1) We have an abundance of oil off shore and even on mainland and in Alaska. Environmentalists have put a stop to more exploration. (2) Reliance on foreign oil is a nice slogan politicians throw (by both sides) but I fail to see where the oil producing nations are screwing anyone. They are trying to put out as much as possible. It's that China and India have modernized and so with their large populations have driven the demand up. And we as a country have made a conscious decison to not restrict our drilling for environmental reasons.

Ok then a vast right wing conspiracy?:D

[Virgil]

Ok then a vast right wing conspiracy?:D

:lol: Both sides contibute to this mess. ;)

[bibliophile190]

Both sides contibute to this mess.



They're usually pretty good at doing that.

[Lily Adams]

I heard it will be up to $4 a gallon in January. I'm going to be driving soon, and then I'll be out on my own after that, so this doesn't look good. I really want a hybrid, but they cost so much money. I keep seeing promising ads on the TV, but it seems like they just want your trust and money, and they don't care...but I'm getting into politics.

So much for that 1956 Ford Crown Victoria I wanted. Not like I could afford it anyways. :p

[Shalot]

It seems like I saw on the news today that some place in California was charging $5.00 bucks per gallon :eek: :eek2:

[blackbird_9]

I live in LA, and paid $3.49 for regular just the other day. This is crazyness.

[the silent x]

we have stayed in the low $3 range in michigan, but it fluctuates hourly, kind of annoying actually. wonder when some company will get smart and devote millionsof dollars to a new, renewable fuel (that is just as good as Gasoline, not the ethanol stuff) then sell it really cheaply when cars are outfitted for it. they will be billionaires, just because no one will want to buy gasoline anymore.

[blackbird_9]

I think the problem with alternative forms of fuel isn't that there haven't been any invented yet, but rather there is no money to be made in it untill the entire country is willing to get new cars which will run on it. There have been plenty of cheaper more efficient forms of fuel, but the cars to run on it are way to expensive for the general consumer.
Now, this is what I heard from some one, so if I'm dead wrong, please let me know. :)

[Shalot]

I think the problem with alternative forms of fuel isn't that there haven't been any invented yet, but rather there is no money to be made in it untill the entire country is willing to get new cars which will run on it. There have been plenty of cheaper more efficient forms of fuel, but the cars to run on it are way to expensive for the general consumer.
Now, this is what I heard from some one, so if I'm dead wrong, please let me know. :)

I was reading a story about a ORNL (Oak Ridge National Lab) and it seems like they were given a grant or received funding or teamed up with someone to work on developing alternate fuels made out of switchgrass for example. It would be a lot easier to just continue to use oil but we're having a hard time getting it and the environment is a big deal right now.

For years, you've had people warning about using fossil fuels up and the harm the use of these fuels does to the environment (it was in my third grade science textbook). Then you hear that any arguments to the contrary come from big business oil executives who don't care about the environment and just want to line their pockets. I don't know how much truth is in any of those statements, but I wish the whole damn country didn't run on oil because it's getting very expensive just to make a living.

[Virgil]

I think the problem with alternative forms of fuel isn't that there haven't been any invented yet, but rather there is no money to be made in it untill the entire country is willing to get new cars which will run on it. There have been plenty of cheaper more efficient forms of fuel, but the cars to run on it are way to expensive for the general consumer.
Now, this is what I heard from some one, so if I'm dead wrong, please let me know. :)

The problem is that all other forms of energy for your car are more expensive. It's not a conspiracy by any executve or big business. Just think about it. Gaseline until just very recently when it spiked up was cheaper than a gallon of bottled water. You have to really ponder that to realize it's significance. Building drilling stations, sometimes off shore, drilling and barreling oil, shipping it across the world to a refinery (a big expensive chemical plant) to be processed into gaseline, and then trucking it across the country to each station. Each one of the steps have people who are employed and middle men businesses that have to earn a profit. And yet, it's still cheaper than bottled water! What other form of energy is that inexpensive? The article I posted above said that making ethanol (growing corn and processing it) was more expensive than gaseline. Wake up and smell the coffee. Oil/gaseline is a blessing. The modern world could not have been possible without it. You want to heat your homes with firewood and move about on horse and buggy, feel free. I'll drive about in a car and take airplanes across the world instaed of a sail boat. I'm gratefull for oil costing peanuts. If you think it's expensive now, just wait until all the politicians start enacting these global warming laws. Then everyone will really be crying.

[Shalot]

The problem is that all other forms of energy for your car are more expensive. It's not a conspiracy by any executve or big business. Just think about it. Gaseline until just very recently when it spiked up was cheaper than a gallon of bottled water. You have to really ponder that to realize it's significance. Building drilling stations, sometimes off shore, drilling and barreling oil, shipping it across the world to a refinery (a big expensive chemical plant) to be processed into gaseline, and then trucking it across the country to each station. Each one of the steps have people who are employed and middle men businesses that have to earn a profit. And yet, it's still cheaper than bottled water! What other form of energy is that inexpensive? The article I posted above said that making ethanol (growing corn and processing it) was more expensive than gaseline. Wake up and smell the coffee. Oil/gaseline is a blessing. The modern world could not have been possible without it. You want to heat your homes with firewood and move about on horse and buggy, feel free. I'll drive about in a car and take airplanes across the world instaed of a sail boat. I'm gratefull for oil costing peanuts. If you think it's expensive now, just wait until all the politicians start enacting these global warming laws. Then everyone will really be crying.


Oh dear God, is it going to get worse? Honestly, I make decisions now based on the cost of gas. Any hope of it ever going back down to say $1.13 per gallon?

[Virgil]

Oh dear God, is it going to get worse? Honestly, I make decisions now based on the cost of gas. Any hope of it ever going back down to say $1.13 per gallon?

Well, I don't think we'll ever see that price again. I'm hoping it will settle down to around $1.75. And remember from earlier, about $ .62 is government taxes. They could easily bring it down to where you were used to by cutting the tax or even supplement the supply by drilling in the US.

[Mirth]

Well, I don't think we'll ever see that price again. I'm hoping it will settle down to around $1.75. And remember from earlier, about $ .62 is government taxes. They could easily bring it down to where you were used to by cutting the tax or even supplement the supply by drilling in the US.


That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.


Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!

[Virgil]

That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).


:lol: Well that made me laugh too. The world oil prices are the same for everyone. The difference is that your governments are ripping you off even worse than ours. :lol: And you don't seem to mind.

Our cars aren't any older than yours. Actually I think Americns buy cars even more often you Europeans. Yes they are bigger, but they are way more comfortable than those little toy things you drive and I wouldn't want to be in an accident with those little things either. ;)

[Shalot]

That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.


Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!


Mirth, hi, welcome to the forum.

[Poppy]

Like I said before, if there is a contest between the rich getting gas and the poor getting food I think the rich will win. This is what worries me about ethenol production.

And can you imagine how high the price of beer will go up!

[Poppy]

That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.

Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!


Oh dern you are having to pay 5 bucks a gallon for gas...and heck I am having to pay 3 dollars a gallon...but you know what when I went to the doctor today I laid down about 200 dollars for a visit and when you went last, it cost you nothing...I mean don't get me started on what things costs when my "very large salary" is eaten away by state and federal taxes, health insurance, fuel taxes, taxes on a set of tires, a tax to pay for old tire disposal, taxes on food, copayments on prescription drugs. I can list many more.

[applepie]

That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.


Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!

Not to offend Mirth, but our very large U.S. salaries are not so large for many of us. My family lives on what would be less than twenty thousand pounds a year, and that is well before I pay taxes or anything else. The reason that gas is such a hardship for my family is that there is no choice but to drive 45+ miles when I need to get my children clothing or something basically other than food. I drive an economical vehicle for what we can afford. It is a small compact, but to even get the most fuel efficient ones we would have to make tens of thousands more a year. I am not driving around some gas guzzling SUV that only gets 12 miles to the gallon and complaining over gasoline prices. The issue is less the price, and more that it is not staying the same. One year ago I was spending about $2.15 for the same gas that is now costing about $3.60 or so. That is a big increase when you are a one income family, and your husband MUST drive to and from work each day. Between the increase in gas on our own vehicles and the increase in food costs, my monthly budget has risen well over $300 a month in the last three or four months, but the pay remains the same.

[the silent x]

That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.


Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!

Mirth, sorry that we Americans are gonna do a gang-beat on you, but Detroit, the Hometown of the automobile, is extremely hard to get a job. It is kind of hard to fill up on $3 a gallon when you have no income. Who's national economy is higher, Britain/Europe, or America? Who's currency is worth more? who is TRILLIONs of dollars in debt, who has an absolute moron running the country (sorry Bush fans, but I'm thankful it's his last year). I think we will wake up and smell the roses, globally. no more oil is coming up from the ground, uh oh, when the US stockpile is started to be used by our country, we will start converting rather quickly.

I drive a '91 Ford Tempo, and it gets good mileage as long as your going under 60 mph, during the summer when i worked to try and pay some of my college, 30% of my weekly pay went to my tank. My dad told me to put 80% in the bank, 80%+30%=110%. If i was a man trying to support a family, i don't think I would be able to support my family on that.

[blackbird_9]

Originally Posted by Mirth View Post
That made me laugh quite a bit. Your annual salaries are easily amongst the world's highest and yet you really dare complain about ~$3 per gallon? You are hoping for it to settle at around $1.75? No offence, but in parts of Europe you pay €1.45-1.55 per LITRE and it's really pissing me off to pay around €75 (around $109) to fill up my, mind you, small and relatively economical car. I don't want to generalise, however, I think many Americans still drive old and incredibly wasteful automobiles. (I saw many of you mentioning hybrid etc, though).

I'd advocate to see your petrol prices shooting in the air just to show you how it feels. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but $3 per gallon does not yet seem to be enough for some to realise that it's time for a change. Don't mistake me for a bloody enviromentalist, I just cannot bear to read four pages riddled with complaints about petrol prices rising to an awfully high $3 per gallon.


Check this website if you like. It might make you feel a tad better.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)


Oh and I'm fully aware that this was a rotten first post to make.
Pardon that!

Dude, it's all relative. We're paying a lot more than we used too, so we feel like venting about it. C' est la vie.

Oh, and the american dollar is such crap right now. You know all those canadian prices listed with the us price on books and magazines? I'm getting the jist that they are finally going to end up being the better bet. I'm so moving.

[applepie]

Dude, it's all relative. We're paying a lot more than we used too, so we feel like venting about it. C' est la vie.

Oh, and the american dollar is such crap right now. You know all those canadian prices listed with the us price on books and magazines? I'm getting the jist that they are finally going to end up being the better bet. I'm so moving.

They hav switched. I am near the border, and the Canadian dollar has been worth more than the U.S. one for a bit of time now. If the dollar value continues to drop things may get much much worse. You called the point of this thread correctly, though. We're all paying more and here is the place to vent over it. I didn't start this thread with the idea of getting into an argument over who has it worse. I was just curious what everyone else was paying for gas, and this was more fun that researching it on the web:D

[Mirth]

You all make it look as though the grass was so green in Europe and we weren't in debt, paid no taxes, were not governed by crackheads, had absolutely free health-care et cetera et cetera.
You cannot deny then, however, that you "oh so poor" Americans can merely afford ~older cars which guzzle your petrol. (see Lily's post with some 1956 Ford if I remember correctly -- it's not exactly new, is it, Virgil?)

Anyway, thanks for your responses. I, albeit reluctantly, have to agree with some of your points. You sure are ripped-off differently. The only thing I MIND, is that you, yet again, make yourself look the poorest nation on earth.

It's time the dollar recovered...

//Some of you had to spend 30% of their salaries on petrol, that's harsh. You know how people with that kind of salary have to deal with it here? They will go to work by bicycle because they simply cannot afford a car, that's how. Now, my brother, for instance, has studied medicine for 6 years, has now been a doctor in a hospital for 3 years and can HARDLY afford a car. It's very very small and he solely uses it when it cannot be helped...but not because he wouldn't like to go to work by car but because it's too expensive.

[Shalot]

You all make it look as though the grass was so green in Europe and we weren't in debt, paid no taxes, were not governed by crackheads, had absolutely free health-care et cetera et cetera.
You cannot deny then, however, that you "oh so poor" Americans can merely afford ~older cars which guzzle your petrol. (see Lily's post with some 1956 Ford if I remember correctly -- it's not exactly new, is it, Virgil?)

Anyway, thanks for your responses. I, albeit reluctantly, have to agree with some of your points. You sure are ripped-off differently. The only thing I MIND, is that you, yet again, make yourself look the poorest nation on earth.

It's time the dollar recovered...

//Some of you had to spend 30% of their salaries on petrol, that's harsh. You know how people with that kind of salary have to deal with it here? They will go to work by bicycle because they simply cannot afford a car, that's how. Now, my brother, for instance, has studied medicine for 6 years, has now been a doctor in a hospital for 3 years and can HARDLY afford a car. It's very very small and he solely uses it when it cannot be helped...but not because he wouldn't like to go to work by car but because it's too expensive.


I don't know if anyone has already pointed this out to you Mirth, but here, at least in my town, there is no feasible public transportation. We have a bus, but where I live, it doesn't make sense for me to go catch it because where I am there is no sidewalk to get from my home to the bus stop. And the lack of sidewalk takes care of the bike riding alternative you mentioned. there is no subway either. I can't just step out onto the sidewalk and walk several blocks or even several miles and just catch the tube to get from here to work.

there are some more expensive parts of my town that you can live in and it's possible to get to your job and do your grocery shopping without a car, but the majority of can't afford to live there so we are stuck farther away with the never-ending car payment, car insurance and now huge gas bill.

that's the layout of my small town in America. We have an interstate system for driving CARS and we are just having a conversation here on lit net about what we are experiencing. I like to hear what other people are experiencing so there is no need to chew us out.

And employers are starting to trim health insurance out of jobs - it costs too much and they don't want to pay for it. A lot of people do not have health insurance and if they get sick, they are screwed. Also, my particular job has been outsourced overseas by several other companies in this town. However, I happened to work for a company that wants to keep this particular operation in house so I am lucky. However, they don't have a benefit package for my particular position anymore. Luckily I have other options as far as healthcare is concerned. But as far as transportation goes, I have no choice but to fill up my tank and drive to my job and if the price of gas gets much higher, I am not sure it's going to be worth it for me to continue to go to work. So please!

And btw: the thing about Lily Adams post - I am sure she was joking there. Or at least it looked that way me, after having read several of her posts over the past few months. You can't just pull a sentence out of someone's post and use it to make a point if you didn't fully grasp what was said.

[Mirth]

I don't know if anyone has already pointed this out to you Mirth, but here, at least in my town, there is no feasible public transportation. We have a bus, but where I live, it doesn't make sense for me to go catch it because where I am there is no sidewalk to get from my home to the bus stop. And the lack of sidewalk takes care of the bike riding alternative you mentioned. there is no subway either. I can't just step out onto the sidewalk and walk several blocks or even several miles and just catch the tube to get from here to work. there are some more expensive parts of my town that you can live in and it's possible to get to your job and do your grocery shopping without a car, but the majority of can't afford to live there so we are stuck farther away with the never-ending car payment, car insurance and now huge gas bill.
that's the layout of my small town in America. We have an interstate system for driving CARS and we are just having a conversation here on lit net about what we are experiencing. I like to hear what other people are experiencing so there is no need to chew us out.

Well, that isn't my fault, is it? All I was saying is that your petrol is comparatively cheap and yet you are complaining about it. Maybe if it was more expensive, you'd have a proper public transportation network, I don't know. There is absolutely no necessity to be pissy since I have by no means intended to offend anybody.




And employers are starting to trim health insurance out of jobs - it costs too much and they don't want to pay for it. A lot of people do not have health insurance and if they get sick, they are screwed. Also, my particular job has been outsourced overseas by several other companies in this town. However, I happened to work for a company that wants to keep this particular operation in house so I am lucky. However, they don't have a benefit package for my particular position anymore. Luckily I have other options as far as healthcare is concerned. But as far as transportation goes, I have no choice but to fill up my tank and drive to my job and if the price of gas gets much higher, I am not sure it's going to be worth it for me to continue to go to work. So please!

I know that and it's very sad, but that problem is not an exclusive American one. There are equal situations everywhere...




And btw: the thing about Lily Adams post - I am sure she was joking there. Or at least it looked that way me, after having read several of her posts over the past few months. You can't just pull a sentence out of someone's post and use it to make a point if you didn't fully grasp what was said.

Maybe she was. Regardless though, it is a fact that many, not all, of you have automobiles of that 'era', mostly because they are cheap to obtain etc. I can understand that, I'm not blaming you to want to save every penny you have. Same with petrol...but in comparison it's just 'unfair', because everyone on the other side of the pond has the same expenses you have.


This is not supposed to be 'America-bashing' either. I'm just stating my opinion, which apparently is not shared by many of you. Comprehensible. Feel free to enlighten me if you think I'm totally mistaken with what I write but don't give me that "oh please" and "duh" and "oh my.." attitude, alright?

[kilted exile]

Okay Mirth, I'll try to answer some of your questions/concerns. I'm based in the great white north now, but there are some similiraties concerning the use of cars.

1) Driving old cars: It is most certainly not the majority that drive cars from the 70's etc.I see far more new cars and SUVs than older models. However, you are correct on the whole cars on this side of the Atlantic are larger. This is not the determining factor for efficiency though - other factors such as model/design & upkeep of car are also important. A regularly maintained larger vehicle can be just as efficient as a smaller car which is not kept in as good condition.

2) Complaints about price of gas: I know to you the idea of people complaing when there gas is comparitively cheap may seem stupid, but you are purposefully forgetting to take into account other economic factors. The extra price of petrol in the UK is due to taxation which is then used to pay for the public transit systems the likes of which do not exist in many places over here (as an example the town I live in has 3 small mini-buses to serve the town, they start running at 7:30am & stop at 6:00pm) the car is a requirement due to this. Also you can change it to whatever currency you like it doesnt matter, how expensive it is is based on the percentage of your income you spend on it.

3) Distance: It is all well and good to suggest that people use a bicycle instead, but in many cases it is just not feasible over here because of distance. Hell, you can fit the entire UK into the province where I live over 4 times. I currently drive around 80km one way to work - there is no way that anybody is cycling that.


Finally someone (dont remember who) made a comment about wanting a alternative fuel other than ethanol - I am pretty sure I am correct in saying that F1 teams use fuels with a % of ethanol in it. If its good enough for them its good enough for me.

[Admin]

Gas prices are high for numerous reasons, mostly inflation and inreased demand.

There are billions of people in china and india soon to be and already buying their first cars and other motorized transportation. Do you think new oil deposits were discovered to make room for all them? No. Oil product stays the same, population increases, demand increases.

Then the US dollar has hurt us on imports, when we're importing oil, we now have to pay more dollars for the same amount since the dollar has last value, thus prices go up.

Unless you forsee a massive global plague killing off people you can pretty much bet prices are not going to drop much. They may drop from current record highs as the Saudi's bring on more production this winter, but you probably will not see sub $2 a gallon gas, again.

Ethanol isn't really a viable alternative either. Most ethanol is made from corn and is supported by government subsidies. To harvest the process the ethanol takes energy (tractors, etc), and the net gain is only 1.3 units of ethanol for every 1 unit of oil put in. That isn't efficient. You also need to use a lot of fertilizer/water etc. Which isn't efficient. Then ethanol produces lower MPGs so to go the same distance you'll have to use 1.2 times as much ethanol as gasoline. Finally, ethanol engines wear down faster. That is corn ethanol. Switchgrass ethanol gives you 8 units for every 1 unit put in, much better. It doesn't require fertilizer, or extra watering, and grows in more places, but to get it you need to get rid of these corn subsidies, and good luck with that. Farm subsidies are notoriously hard to get rid of in this country.

Hybrids are also not a perfect solution. Because of the weight of maintaining multiple drive trains, and the weight of the batteries, you're dealing with cars that are small, but really heavy for their size, with less safety features, and of course slower pickup speeds (aka poor acceleration). Then too the MPG benefits aren't really all that big. Then the batteries are a pollutant too when they're used up.

Plug in hybrids can get better mileage still, but they don't solve the battery problem, and they do not solve the safety problem. Safety is a big issue. When people are driving an aluminum and plastic car and get in an accident at 55 MPH they're going to be toast. Everyone wants a safe car, but safety features increase weight, and weight decreases fuel efficiency. You need to decide what is more important to you, not dying or not polluting something with may be causing to an unknown but small by any measure degree climate change which may instead merely be a natural process. I choose not dying.

It also isn't fair, at all, to compare the US and Europe. The US is the land of wide open spaces, we're spread out with much less population density and it wouldn't be feasible to run public transportation to all the places people live. Europe is more more densely populated with more centralized population locations.

The one technology that really has potential to get rid of our dependence on oil, as far as automobiles go, is hydrogen fuel cells. No extra weight from a battery, emits only water, and is powered by cheap and available hydrogen. Some people worry about explosions but since hydrogen is a gas, when a tank is punctured or something it dissipates into the atmosphere quickly. Whereas gasoline pools on the ground where anything can ignite it. The technology for hydrogen merely needs improving and then infrastructure needs to be built up.

Other solutions, hybrids, ethanol, biodiesel etc (do you know that to really replace gas with biodiesel or ethanol it would require that all land currently used for food farming be used for energy farming instead, meaning we'd all starve), are good only for the transition to a hydrogen economy.

In the short term, if you want cheaper prices, ask the government to do more offshore drilling and open up Alaska. I personally find it ridiculous that we will not drill in Alaska because we're worried about the possibility of an accident one day. Thats like staying home because you're worried if you leave the house and drive to work you might get rear ended. Make the oil companies put a portion of the money from Alaska drilling into a trust fund that is reserved for environmental issues including conservation and the cleaning up of any accident, but by all means, don't let the fear of an outside possibility stop you from doing something that clearly has so many benefits. Not only would it lower gas prices, but wean us further off foreign oil, which means we wouldn't have to deal with as many foreign dictators who run oil rich countries.

For electricity in general, Nuclear is the easiest answer. France for instance has an almost 100% Nuclear energy infrastructure and it works for them because every plant is standardized and safe. All fears about Nuclear power from radiantion, to melt downs, to waste storage are way way way blown out of proportion. It is cheap non-polluting electricity and building 300 nuclear reactors would allow us to shut down every single coal, oil, or gas burning powerplant in the country.

[Granny5]

I don't really have anything to add or to say except I wanted to bump this so that everyone could read it. Best reply I've read. Thanks, Admin


Gas prices are high for numerous reasons, mostly inflation and inreased demand.

There are billions of people in china and india soon to be and already buying their first cars and other motorized transportation. Do you think new oil deposits were discovered to make room for all them? No. Oil product stays the same, population increases, demand increases.

Then the US dollar has hurt us on imports, when we're importing oil, we now have to pay more dollars for the same amount since the dollar has last value, thus prices go up.

Unless you forsee a massive global plague killing off people you can pretty much bet prices are not going to drop much. They may drop from current record highs as the Saudi's bring on more production this winter, but you probably will not see sub $2 a gallon gas, again.

Ethanol isn't really a viable alternative either. Most ethanol is made from corn and is supported by government subsidies. To harvest the process the ethanol takes energy (tractors, etc), and the net gain is only 1.3 units of ethanol for every 1 unit of oil put in. That isn't efficient. You also need to use a lot of fertilizer/water etc. Which isn't efficient. Then ethanol produces lower MPGs so to go the same distance you'll have to use 1.2 times as much ethanol as gasoline. Finally, ethanol engines wear down faster. That is corn ethanol. Switchgrass ethanol gives you 8 units for every 1 unit put in, much better. It doesn't require fertilizer, or extra watering, and grows in more places, but to get it you need to get rid of these corn subsidies, and good luck with that. Farm subsidies are notoriously hard to get rid of in this country.

Hybrids are also not a perfect solution. Because of the weight of maintaining multiple drive trains, and the weight of the batteries, you're dealing with cars that are small, but really heavy for their size, with less safety features, and of course slower pickup speeds (aka poor acceleration). Then too the MPG benefits aren't really all that big. Then the batteries are a pollutant too when they're used up.

Plug in hybrids can get better mileage still, but they don't solve the battery problem, and they do not solve the safety problem. Safety is a big issue. When people are driving an aluminum and plastic car and get in an accident at 55 MPH they're going to be toast. Everyone wants a safe car, but safety features increase weight, and weight decreases fuel efficiency. You need to decide what is more important to you, not dying or not polluting something with may be causing to an unknown but small by any measure degree climate change which may instead merely be a natural process. I choose not dying.

It also isn't fair, at all, to compare the US and Europe. The US is the land of wide open spaces, we're spread out with much less population density and it wouldn't be feasible to run public transportation to all the places people live. Europe is more more densely populated with more centralized population locations.

The one technology that really has potential to get rid of our dependence on oil, as far as automobiles go, is hydrogen fuel cells. No extra weight from a battery, emits only water, and is powered by cheap and available hydrogen. Some people worry about explosions but since hydrogen is a gas, when a tank is punctured or something it dissipates into the atmosphere quickly. Whereas gasoline pools on the ground where anything can ignite it. The technology for hydrogen merely needs improving and then infrastructure needs to be built up.

Other solutions, hybrids, ethanol, biodiesel etc (do you know that to really replace gas with biodiesel or ethanol it would require that all land currently used for food farming be used for energy farming instead, meaning we'd all starve), are good only for the transition to a hydrogen economy.

In the short term, if you want cheaper prices, ask the government to do more offshore drilling and open up Alaska. I personally find it ridiculous that we will not drill in Alaska because we're worried about the possibility of an accident one day. Thats like staying home because you're worried if you leave the house and drive to work you might get rear ended. Make the oil companies put a portion of the money from Alaska drilling into a trust fund that is reserved for environmental issues including conservation and the cleaning up of any accident, but by all means, don't let the fear of an outside possibility stop you from doing something that clearly has so many benefits. Not only would it lower gas prices, but wean us further off foreign oil, which means we wouldn't have to deal with as many foreign dictators who run oil rich countries.

For electricity in general, Nuclear is the easiest answer. France for instance has an almost 100% Nuclear energy infrastructure and it works for them because every plant is standardized and safe. All fears about Nuclear power from radiantion, to melt downs, to waste storage are way way way blown out of proportion. It is cheap non-polluting electricity and building 300 nuclear reactors would allow us to shut down every single coal, oil, or gas burning powerplant in the country.

[Virgil]

Two things I would add to what Admin wrote. Refining capacity has been an infleuence on gas prices. Current number of refineries don't meet the demand and oil reaches bottle necked before it can be refined. Building more refineries would bring down the price.

Other thing is hydrogen fuel. I haven't really read up on how this works, but I have heard that the by product is water and moisture as Admin states. Well, isn't that a huge environmental impact? Aren't we going to change deserts from being deserts and every regular land into rain forests? I can tell you that the humidity level of Arizona deserts have changed dramatically (less dry) because of all the irrigation for farming. What will happen when every car starts adding moisture to the atmosphere? If we're worried about global warming as an environmental man made change, then what will hydrogen cars do?

Admin is also absolutely correct on batteries. Not only is it inefficient (you have to convert it to electricity and then store it and then reconvert) but battery disposal is a huge environmental disaster waiting to happen. Batteries use acids.

[kilted exile]

I am still waiting for the day they bring out a car which you fill with water & that gives out calcium carbonate whilst using the Hydrogen to run. However that is just a pipe dream I suppose.

[Virgil]

I am still waiting for the day they bring out a car which you fill with water & that gives out calcium carbonate whilst using the Hydrogen to run. However that is just a pipe dream I suppose.

Kilt - You have some knowledge in this area. Will hydrogen cars exhaust moisture and water and wouldn't that affect the envirnment?

[kilted exile]

Kilt - You have some knowledge in this area. Will hydrogen cars exhaust moisture and water and wouldn't that affect the envirnment?

It depends on how you look at it. Yes water vapour is a by-product of Hydrogen cars & yes water vapour is a greenhouse gas (however only at high regions of the atmosphere). The issue is whether or not the cumulative amounts of gg's released would be less. It would probably be less due to no Nitrous Oxides (or occassional Sulphurous Oxides) being released due to impurities in the gasoline. For me thought the biggest issue regarding Hydrogen cars is overcoming the real (though overstated) perception held by many that they are in fact driving a bomb - we used to use H2 gas in blimps & that wasnt the smartest of ideas.

Overall, I think money is best spent regarding research into development of batteries. I want a Prius myself.....

[Scheherazade]

So, today I paid £1.09 per litre :-/

About 10 years ago, it was 60p!

[papayahed]

I'm holding out for transporters. If the federation can figure it out I don't see why the government can't.

[applepie]

I'm holding out for transporters. If the federation can figure it out I don't see why the government can't.

:lol: Don't hold your breath on that one, but it would solve quite a few issues:D

Thank you Admin for your post. I was getting ready to research everything and post something similar. I don't even hope to see prices below $2 again, but I would really like to just see them stagnate and stay put long enough for ALL the prices to adjust and for my budget to readjust to the higher costs. I don't see that prices will drop for the same reasons you have mentioned. As I stated in an earlier posting, the overall demand for oil on a DAILY basis had increased by over six million a day between 2000 and 2005. I'm sure that the increase in demand has not slowed. Here's a link to the chart that tells the barrels of oil consumed daily by country. http://www.swivel.com/data_sets/show/1003357

Mirth- Being hopeful that the price will decrease is not what I would consider a complaint. There are very few actual complaints through this thread about the prices. I see discussions of what it is costing everyone. I see more discussion about how it has risen the price of many other goods. I see people hoping that it will return to what we were paying several years ago. I even see some discussion of the use of alternate fuels and how it may affect the economy and other prices. What I don't see is complaints, unless you find it a complaint simply for an American to be wishing that the price would be lower.

The U.S. is one of the wealthiest nations in the world, but you must also account for the division of that wealth. I'm afraid not everyone is living rich over here, and some things that may be seen as a sign of wealth are merely seen as a necessity here. As Shalot mentioned, there is very little public transportation unless you are within an urban area, and the more suburban areas are also not equipped for the use of bicycles. I will likely be commuting 20+ miles to and from work each day. My husband goes 10. This isn't a distance that is easy to go by bike or foot when there are no walking paths or areas for riding. For many people in the U.S. a vehicle and gasoline is as necessary as a roof over your head and food. I know many people who are going an hour away from their homes to find employment at the moment. Some areas of are nation have been basically unaffected by failing industries, and in others the entire surrounding economy has collapsed because of dependency on one or two lagging industries. Though many people are still employed, our unemplyment rate is only around 5.5%, there are many people woking in jobs that pay much less than what they are used to. Also remember that the top 20% of our nation in earning brings in more than three quarters of the country's income. The other 25% or so is distributed over the remaining 80% of the population.

My general point is that what you may see as complaints are not intended to be so, and even if they are, those of us who are compaining may have every reason to do so. Before writing somewhat biting remarks, whether with intent to insult or not, you may wish to consider the motives of what others are writing. While you may have had no intent to offend, I believe you have done just that by implying that there is absolutly no reason that we in the U.S. may have a reason to experience hardship over the rising prices.

[Shalot]

Well said mhockenberry and kilted! thanks Admin!!

[blackbird_9]

I think I'll get rid of my car and buy an elephant. My new super cool looking all-terrain vehicle. I will call him Gus.

[Shalot]

I think I'll get rid of my car and buy an elephant. My new super cool looking all-terrain vehicle. I will call him Gus.

he he, well if you're a rich american, you should have no problem working that one out.


geez, that comment can be deleted. please don't ban me

[blackbird_9]

he he, well if you're a rich american, you should have no problem working that one out.


geez, that comment can be deleted. please don't ban me

:p American, yes. Rich? Not a chance. I have a college student checking account. i.e. not very impressive. hehe.

[stephofthenight]

wow, i feel bad now.. @ 2.97 i was throwing a royal Bfit! but its now like 2.30 so its not as bad we told them we wouldnt be buying as much from them next year and it went back to 91$ a barrel. yayness!!!

[the silent x]

my problem with nuclear energy which was brought up, is the fact that the rods used in a nuclear powerplant, do eventually die out, then they have to be put somewhere, and a place to put a radioactive rod is hard to find.

[applepie]

my problem with nuclear energy which was brought up, is the fact that the rods used in a nuclear powerplant, do eventually die out, then they have to be put somewhere, and a place to put a radioactive rod is hard to find.

Meltdown is also an issue. Nuclear energy is one of the cleanest and most efficient, but when something bad goes wrong, it gets really bad. The fallout from a failure is always a bit worry as well.

[Shalot]

with Christmas coming up, and the gas prices continuing to rise, I have decided to scale back on Christmas this year. We're just not going to give gifts this year. I will exchange gifts with my husband but that's it. I am not sure what my new job is like, but I am pretty sure there is no stupid gift giving there (thank God!) unlike my old job where i ended up spending way too much on people who hated my guts (and I hate them too hmphh :( )

anyone else planning on having a merry little Christmas because of the price of gas?