Who are We

[Bruce Bradley]

Who are We

I have often pondered this thought. I am sure all you out there have to. I am really interested in your thoughts and replies on this subject. I might learn what I haven’t got a clue about. I know that I am an American, but look deeper what about the human race. Where do you really think we came from?

There are several versions of creation. Even in ancient times they had different gods and they were thought to be responsible for the human creation. Religions of this time believed in several gods. Then since Christianity there has only been one true God.

You have Scientist who believed we evolved from a single cell that was just out there. If so where did the single cell come from? It is like, “What came first the chicken or the egg?” It sounds like they put the egg in front of the chicken. If we are from a single cell dthen where did the animals come from? Did they come from a single cell too? If so what decided what cell made a chicken or a human. It is mind boggling when you think about it. Every answer opens another question.

People have dedicated their lives to this subject and that was all they could come up with. At least they have now proven that Jesus did exist and die on a cross. They can prove that much of the bible is true. Does this mean it was way humans were created?

At the time religion was created the time was very chaotic and wild. It was used to maintain a peace among humans. Animals are not able to understand so what happens to them when they die. Are they innocent of Sin? Since they had to be created the same as we are is there a place in heaven for them?

They have now found space beyond our reaches. This is not mention in the bible. So do you think that an alien race started our stay on earth and someday they will be back to check on us? If this happens will it blow the theory of religion out of the water?

Like I said these are some of the questions and maybe you have some yourself, let’s put them out there and see what everyone thinks.

[Midas]

At least they have now proven that Jesus did exist and die on a cross.

Bruce, they have? When? It must be something I missed.

[Gadget Girl]

Scientists believe that we came from apes. I don't how that happened. Scientists believe that Earth was made by two huge rocks that clashed in space. But I don't believe it. I believe in God and He is the one who made all these stuffs we see on Earth. All the trees, air, animals, people, life. Even the aliens, the planets, the whole universe. Some may be asking, 'if God made all of these, where did He came from?'. This is what wonders me most. But I don't question it. God is there before time. He was always there.

My answer for this question, is that we came from the image of God. And that's it. There will be no question of who we are truly. It's already a fact. It will always be like that.

[NikolaiI]

I don't agree that God made us. I don't think birds think; there's a bird-god who made us. Because, it's true, birds can't think that expansively. But just because we're able to think of a God, doesn't mean it's true. I think the heavens and the earth came into existence; then life, and after millennia sentient human race developed. After that, we see the first signs of religion. Just my view.

About who we are- yes that is a good question. Am I an American? Is this really true? It's not something we generally question or consider. And yet, the first principles of whatever ontology we go by, these are important and worthy of study. To quote a source, "we need to learn the ground and the field of study we're going to cultivate, before we go into more advanced topics." What the author was talking about was the fallacy of ego or self, and how it's a thinking error which comes about by 5 successive misconceptions. The first is form; next are sensation, perception, mental formations, and consciousness. Our ego is made up of this- but we are not a self; we're just a cluster of processes. It's not something most Christians/Western thinkers are receptive to. It's not something to be questioned- who are we? People, children of God. What are we? People. It doesn't matter that Western philosophy has unearthed the truths of Buddhist ontology, as early as Nietzsche: when he said 'there is no "I"' and 'there is no thing.' Schopenhaur, too, it seems, somewhat understood this ontology. Who are we- what are we- fundamentally? This and language constitute ontology- or first principles. Can we logically say that we are persons? Is this true? By what do we know this is true? These questions might be seen as solipsic folderol, but I think it has merit. What are we? An ego? A self? I don't believe in the term of self- it's a metaphysical construction, which is fine; but our brains and hearts or whatever it would be located in- are more complex than all that. There are billions of brain neurons and networks that are all unique; and all of it changing all the time, so how can you call that a self? In fact for the same reason it's more accurate, perhaps, to think of things as an action- I am a person, but actually I am personning, coming or arising into existence and then fading from existence. I never am a person.

Language can stymie our efforts to understand; it's developed with a purpose to serve the culture we have, which is one of Ego. Our culture tells we are "I"'s, and if we never heard otherwise, we would never consider that we weren't necessarily all these "I"'s. As long as we think like this, we only have truly an intellectual connection to the world. I guess I'm ranting; I'll leave off it.

[crazefest456]

I'd like to explore the "chicken and the egg" situation...scientists are theorizing now, that subatomic particles (that make up the atoms, which make compounds, cells, tissues, etc..) are made of tiny vibrating strings. We believe that these theories are merely reducing our existence to this vulgar, minimal form, when actually, these are just models that help us (as tools, not definitions) point to our beginning. These models are just one shade of our bajillion faceted selves, and just show the perception from one angle. I guess, our beginnings, coinciding with other creatures (animals, plants, inorganic substances) just show that God created us equally (in essence) but man's right to rational thought, and choice is because we were privileged with this ability when created.
But, our physical creation poses no significance to our self; it is our use of mind, formation of traditions, tendency to submit to faith, and self-expression that really makes us who we are.

[Bruce Bradley]

If you have watched the History Channel, they have found many different stories in the bible to be true. They do know that Jesus existed and if he existed he must have been crucified. It doesn't prove the miracles the bible claims he did. That is up to everyone to believe or not.

Myself, I prefer to hold on to my faith that it happened. I like knowing there something after death to look forward to. I also believe that religion is necessary to prevent a world of chaos.

Bruce

Bruce

[blazeofglory]

Thid is a profound question, and indeed nobody could say who are us.

And I may say lots about it, but all will result in bunks of course, not in substance at all.

[crazefest456]

Thid is a profound question, and indeed nobody could say who are us.

And I may say lots about it, but all will result in bunks of course, not in substance at all.

that happens to me alot nowadays-- I see a very nice question about the meaning of life, or the existence of ourself, and then I just can't even DARE to reply because I now realize that there are an infinite number of responses (all of which are correct) due to the vast amount of views we could look from.
I love this absolute uncertainty about something I'm sure I'm certain...

[Etienne]

Do you know what you are?
You are what you is
You is what you am
(A cow don't make ham . . . )
You ain't what you're not
So see what you got
You are what you is
An' that's all it 'tis

-Frank Zappa

[Pensive]

Who are we? Probably question-marks?

[blazeofglory]

Do you know what you are?
You are what you is
You is what you am
(A cow don't make ham . . . )
You ain't what you're not
So see what you got
You are what you is
An' that's all it 'tis

-Frank Zappa

This is really a ground shattering expression. Damn all labels and we are what are. Why the hell do we philosophize what we are not. I am what I am as you are what you are. Why fragmentation? What identification? I am simple I am the way the dog is a dog, and the tiger is a tiger. The rest is bunk.

[blazeofglory]

If you have watched the History Channel, they have found many different stories in the bible to be true. They do know that Jesus existed and if he existed he must have been crucified. It doesn't prove the miracles the bible claims he did. That is up to everyone to believe or not.

Myself, I prefer to hold on to my faith that it happened. I like knowing there something after death to look forward to. I also believe that religion is necessary to prevent a world of chaos.

Bruce

Bruce

The story of Jesus is not documented with evidence, and it is a sheer matter of faith, and you can keep it to yourself personally indeed, and do not try to argue or convince others of its authenticity.

[blazeofglory]

Do you know what you are?
You are what you is
You is what you am
(A cow don't make ham . . . )
You ain't what you're not
So see what you got
You are what you is
An' that's all it 'tis

-Frank Zappa

This is the right answer I too think, for reality is reality and nothing else.
We are hypothetical and all we assume and presume are rootless facts, and no scientists or their theories or maxims or discoveries have taken us to truth in point of fact.

God? I am unsure God is the creator. Heaven and Hell? No I can not believe in these stuffs.

The one and only answer I arm myself with is: I do not know anything.

[Bruce Bradley]

Blaze,

All of history is know by the documentation that is left by our ancestors. It is strange that one man had so much of it written about him. Much that is know about History is really never know be 100% true. But when time is marked by a man's life we must assume that it had to be. I am talking AC and BC which is After Christ and Before Christ. For the whole world to have this in their beliefs who are we to challenge it. Plus there has never been a religion that has survived as long and changed as many lives as Christianity. Like it or not the truth is there staring you in the face. There has been many over time who have tried to stop it and failed. There has got to be something to it don't you think.

The most amazing thing is there were so many crucified in those times how could one man's death make such a mark on history. It is undeniable. Our lives are ours to live how we see fit, Christianity has branched in so different types of beliefs it makes hard know for sure what the rules are to live by. How does someone go to heaven that has never known Christ. It's simple for everyone, God has instilled in each and every one of us to know right from wrong. If you listen to this voice and go the direction it tells you, you will always be fine.

Some are just so obsessed with money it rules their lives. Then when they get old that money can't buy them youth and happiness. Only your family and friends will be there for you. This why I say that your children are our eternal life and it good to have a family. When it happens it can change your whole life if you let it. I could write forever on this and you would get bored with reading it so I going to close now. Life is short and don't let it get away from you. It is here for us to enjoy if you know how. Live right have a family and take time to enjoy what God has given us.

It is really pretty easy, God doesn't ask for much. I can't believe people have such a problem excepting it. This just something for you ponder. As always thanks for your replies and I hope you have a wonderful day.

Bruce

[jgweed]

"All of history is know by the documentation that is left by our ancestors. It is strange that one man had so much of it written about him. Much that is know about History is really never know be 100% true. But when time is marked by a man's life we must assume that it had to be. I am talking AC and BC which is After Christ and Before Christ. For the whole world to have this in their beliefs who are we to challenge it. Plus there has never been a religion that has survived as long and changed as many lives as Christianity. Like it or not the truth is there staring you in the face. There has been many over time who have tried to stop it and failed. There has got to be something to it don't you think."

No I don't, as a matter of fact.
Comments:
1.Certainly we are not solely dependent for our historical knowledge on the existence of texts; hence paleontology, numismatics, archeology, and geology.
2.Contemporary references to the life of Jesus are, outside of Christian texts, relatively few and certainly less than, for example, Sokrates. Since neither of these people took the time to actually write anything, our knowledge of both is limited to the accounts of their lives and thoughts by contemporaries. If Sokrates had his Plato, then Jesus had his Paul.
3.Not all the world divides history into AC and BC; and even it were true, the division is explained by the dominance of Western European civilisation and its Christian heritage.
4.That Christianity (ignoring the presence of various sects, heresies, and amalgamations with local superstitions) has existed for so long, or has been believed by so many people, is no argument for its truth supposedly staring us in the face.
5.Furthermore this argument seems to rely on Christianity being one particular set of beliefs. Both with Jesus and Sokrates, their supposed teachings have been the fountainhead for many divergent schools of thought and dogma. Some of these have survived, some have disappeared in the historical morass of neglect.

[Nightshade]

Plus there has never been a religion that has survived as long and changed as many lives as Christianity.

There is a flaw in your argument here, for one thing Judaism is older than Christianity, centuries older if the assumption that Mose's Pharaoh was Ramses V is correct and its the oldest surviving branch of the Abrahamic religions, but there is an even older religion than Judaism that is still practiced today and that is Zoroastrianism. Now I have read theories that state that Zoroastrianism is in fact the original grain around which the Abrahamic religions were constructed, and while I neither believe it or know much about the religion fact remains it predates Christianity by approximately 9 centuries and is oldest existing religion.

[a lost weekend]

I believe (&, mind you, there seems to be enough [sufficient] evidence to support this claim) that we (as in: us) are not so different (biologically speaking) from other living organisms -- i.e. we are created biologically, not divinely.

[a lost weekend]

Blaze,
I am talking AC and BC which is After Christ and Before Christ. For the whole world to have this in their beliefs who are we to challenge it. Plus there has never been a religion that has survived as long and changed as many lives as Christianity. Like it or not the truth is there staring you in the face. There has been many over time who have tried to stop it and failed. There has got to be something to it don't you think.
Bruce

er...there appears to be some flaws in y'r arguments here, sonny. Firstly, not all countries abide by the a.d. (a.d. -- not a.c., dummy) & the b.c. & if they do, it is likely not out of belief in Christianity or Jesus (i.e. Asian buddhist or hindu countries) but, rather (& more probably) it is a result of conquest, or the enormous enslavement of other nations and peoples that good ol' Christianity has, throughout time, brought about.

[blazeofglory]

That who are we is a profound question and in point of fact this question can not be answered at all and we all busy ourselves with this question but it takes so much of us to arrive at the answer. The answer but never can be arrived at,

[blazeofglory]

We are seekers of truth.

[wilbur lim]

This is my perspective 'science is likewise intriguing,and it is inextricably linked with philosophy.Science had solve lots of mysteries which the Bible did not cited.Thereby,I believe Science is precise and we evolve from a cell,not from God.God might know what He had created on earth but the likelihhod is that He did not investigate Science,but humanity does it.'

[blazeofglory]

This is what I have always been asking myself and the rest of the world.

[Bruce Bradley]

Face it everyone, we all have our beliefs on where we came from. This has always been a topic of discussions and disputes through out time. To force your opinion on someone else is wrong. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Religion was established to control chaos in early times. It has survived all this time because of the world's fear of what would happen if there wasn't any rules to live by. Most laws are based on the basic religious rules that have been passed down through time. The major basis for religion is what happens when we die not how we were created. Scientific fact is just the opposite, because they have no idea about a soul and what happens after death.

I think it is much better to believe that you will live on after you die than just rot in the ground and become fertilizer. The truth is I don't want to go there and find out yet. It is also that we must face it is our destiny. Like I said, if we were all to live our lives in a religious manner the world would be a much better place to live.

We all have flaws so if we are indeed created in God's image, he must be flawed too. I guess if you want to believe in God this it explains evolution. It took time for him to get the right formula. Science still can't explain the very beginning of time. Regardless of what you believe the fact remains that no one will ever know the truth until you die. Wouldn't it be a shame if there is a heaven when you die and you missed out because you cast doubt on something that didn't ask for nothing but goodness in the world.

Our ancestors are ones who took their religions and forced it on others. The Muslims felt you have to kill infidels and the Crusades did the same. I do believe it is a sin to kill someone. The truth is simply this, without religion we would have mess on earth today. It gave the masses a reason to group together and live among each other.

If the numbers of people who think that religion should be abolished keep increasing then we truly will have hell on earth. If you think about the way things are going right now this could be the begining of Armageddon. There are still enough people on earth to prevent this but we get closer and closer everyday. What does it hurt to have a little faith in something you don't know about. Remember things can always get worse.

[NikolaiI]

er...there appears to be some flaws in y'r arguments here, sonny. Firstly, not all countries abide by the a.d. (a.d. -- not a.c., dummy) & the b.c. & if they do, it is likely not out of belief in Christianity or Jesus (i.e. Asian buddhist or hindu countries) but, rather (& more probably) it is a result of conquest, or the enormous enslavement of other nations and peoples that good ol' Christianity has, throughout time, brought about.

Nowadays in academic circles, the terms are usually C.E. and B.C.E. (common era and before common era), dating the same as A.D. and B.C.

[billyjack]

this is a very short video of the first man ever to ask the question this thread poses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIhQ2m_hts

[grotto]

We aren’t! “We” only exists when two or more agree and that existence is shaky at best.

Gotta love someone who quotes Frank Zappa! Made my day "so far" anyways!

[Buh4Bee]

Our ego is made up of this- but we are not a self; we're just a cluster of processes.

In coming to understand who we are, we need to understand the role that the ego plays in a conscious being. Nikolai, would you be so kind as to true to explain this idea further, quoted above. In my own study of Christianity, I am struggling to grasp this concept. I know I should read Nietzsche, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.


this is a very short video of the first man ever to ask the question this thread poses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIhQ2m_hts

um, that was really funny.

[blazeofglory]

This is indeed a great question. I have asked myself a thousand and one time and yet I have never been able to answer this question. For all whether we are materialistically bent or spiritually inclined this question keeps on carrying us. It is very natural to know about us, and about the knowledge of our origin.

One question may crop up. Is there a particular purpose of our being here? If there is an objective or purpose then what caused that purpose. We become carried on tirelessly and interminably.

We do not know what holds us. Maybe you say the earth, and what holds the earth? The answer is space. Then what is space? Ether and what is ether in substance?


Only questions keep on stacking one after another infinitely.

If we are strong believers in God we may say it is God that created this world and he has a purpose. Then what created God? Is God desirous?

And what caused God to desire?

We can ask so many questions but there is no answer.

Till now millions and millions of questions were raised but we have not arrived at a single convincing answer.

And we take refuge in mysticism.

But anyway this asking job makes us a philosopher. Philosophy is just a route or a path, and there are a thousand and one path. But a path is a path that starts from one point and ends up at another.

[Michael T]

Here begins the first lesson. :)

Have no doubt the day will come when all religions die out, as they inevitably must. Only then, can mankind ultimately take responsibility for itself. Our purpose is whatever we, as mankind, make it. There is no 'reason' for us being here, we just are. :)

I don't have to give credence to the belief in a flat Earth just because the ignorance of my ancestors meant that they believed the Earth to be flat. They were wrong and I know better. There is no God of Lightning or God of Rain or God of War. My ancestors were wrong because they knew no better. The light of knowledge has illuminated the ignorance of the past. :)

The fact that for thousands of years people believed the Earth was at the centre of the universe is no reason for me to give that belief any credence or respect. I know better and the same goes for any belief in all those religions and outlandish ideas created to explain the unexplainable. The light of knowledge has illuminated the ignorance of the past. :)

The fact that for thousands of years people believed in gods is no reason for me to respect that belief, or give it any credence. I know better, because science has given me the answers, as has an understanding of history. It doesn't take much effort to break free from the shackles of the past and discover the history of all religions and see that they are all man-made stories, derived from ignorance, and later used to control the masses of the un-educated through the fear of damnation. The light of knowledge has illuminated the ignorance of the past. :)

Remember, religions came from human ignorance of scientific facts. Knowledge brings the death of religions and the birth of taking responsibility for ourselves. We no longer need a ‘made-up magic man in the sky’ to explain the concepts of nature or the concept of 'treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself in that situation'. The gods we created through ignorance are dead. We are our own masters and we are responsible for the direction humanity takes, and for the preservation of the planet we inhabit. :)

God is dead… Long live humanity. The light of knowledge has illuminated the ignorance of the past and shown us the way forward. :)

Amen. :D

[blazeofglory]

This question keeps on intriguing me, and I have never been been satisfied with the answer. There are biological answers and psychological ones and none of them could satisfiy me. I know the answer of who are we can never been found but I never cease questioning.

Of courese life is a mystery,and biological or philosophical answers cannot satisfy us. And spiritual answers are not based on reaons or somehthing that can satisfy us logically.

And it is something highly romanticiziing to keep on asking such questions.

[Mariamosis]

Scientific fact is just the opposite, because they have no idea about a soul and what happens after death.

In the majority of scientific theory the "soul" translates into "energy". Scientists have an explanation, it just happens to be an explanation that makes people feel inferior and futile in the scheme of things.

Instead of the essence of our being driving our ego and determining our afterlife, we now have neutrons and electrons interfering with molecular structures. In turn, chemical reactions conclude our behavior.

After death the "soul" (or energy) dissipates into the atmosphere once organs shut down. Your body rots in the ground (if buried) and eventually seeps energy into the soil to help give nutrients to plants which later are consumed by animals, and animals by people. Therefore supplying entire ecosystems with energy to reproduce and survive.

It all sounds frightening and as if there is no point to our lives, but it is all quite exciting and very humbling. It not only gives us a purpose for our individual interest, but for the entire planets well being.

I am not telling you what you should believe, but I thought the information might be important to this specific argument. :)

[Mariamosis]

It took time for him to get the right formula. Science still can't explain the very beginning of time. Regardless of what you believe the fact remains that no one will ever know the truth until you die. Wouldn't it be a shame if there is a heaven when you die and you missed out because you cast doubt on something that didn't ask for nothing but goodness in the world.

First: I don't believe the "right formula" has been reached. I also don't believe there is a "right formula", perhaps an infinite case of trial and error.

Second: I believe that God (if he and/or she exists) would not punish me for seeking the truth. If I believed in Christianity I would tend to favor the New Testament. To give God human characteristics, such as anger and resentment, doesn't make him seem anymore immortal or knowledgeable than anyone else. If he can't control his temper and reason then why should we as humans be expected to? Therefore I don't believe God should be viewed as a hypocrite. If he/she is out there, then hopefully he and/or she is understanding and noble.

Third: I don't believe we should assign God a sex. I prefer to call him or her "they" (the father and/or mother, son and/or daughter, and holy spirit) or the "trinity". Picking a sex would prove a sexist agenda... hmm. I think there are contradictions attributed to most deities.... I'm just saying.... :(

[blazeofglory]

This question always arrests me. I am trying to understand though I know I cannot.

[Mutian]

I think the process of discussing such an ontological problem is more important and meaningful than the answer itself. What we learn from such a discussion with regard to existence is what philosophers call "dialectics." This way of thinking differentiates we mankind from lower species, and advancing our minds.

It is my belief that, there is no absolutely true answer in this universe; what we confirm as true are just somethings made from the strongest arguments or cogent scientific proofs, but might not be true innately. Therefore, to say something is true is self-deception. As Nietzsche says in "beyond good and evil": "why rather untruth? uncertainty?" Life is beautiful because it can be viewd, like a sculpture, from different perspectives, but not only via a single way. That is to say, the more ways you look at life, the happier you might be. Naturally, the way of viewing turns out to be more important than the beauty itself.

Anyway, this is just my own thought. I would like to hear more from you talented people.

[NikolaiI]

In the majority of scientific theory the "soul" translates into "energy". Scientists have an explanation, it just happens to be an explanation that makes people feel inferior and futile in the scheme of things.

Instead of the essence of our being driving our ego and determining our afterlife, we now have neutrons and electrons interfering with molecular structures. In turn, chemical reactions conclude our behavior.

After death the "soul" (or energy) dissipates into the atmosphere once organs shut down. Your body rots in the ground (if buried) and eventually seeps energy into the soil to help give nutrients to plants which later are consumed by animals, and animals by people. Therefore supplying entire ecosystems with energy to reproduce and survive.

It all sounds frightening and as if there is no point to our lives, but it is all quite exciting and very humbling. It not only gives us a purpose for our individual interest, but for the entire planets well being.

I am not telling you what you should believe, but I thought the information might be important to this specific argument. :)


I take a very simple view of it. As to eternal life or infinite life; we are part of the universe, are we not? Is any part of the universe more temporary than any other? Or is every form reincarnated infinitely? Think of a flower; it is a very simple program, a very simple design. Yes there are thousands or millions of types of flowers... but on some higher level they are all simple. We are simple like that. We think we are complex, but being simple, we live here, but why not somewhere else?
Nietzsche's idea of eternal return.

[blazeofglory]

The "who are we" question can never be answered and we simply keep on interpreting based on our thought, and the source of our thought is our memories of what experience we have undergone in point of fact and what we have learned from others or books.

Our answer is or what we call our findings are simply the outcomes of our interpretations based on our thoughts.

Can we go beyond this domain of thought?

Why do we want to know God and what advantages can we have by knowing it. Enjoy better than know.