Families

[verybaddmom]

i've sort of run across something interesting in my sociology class regarding the definition of families and decided that since we have such a broad scope of people from different cultures, i would ask for some input from you folks.

now, cross cultural definitions of family vary greatly, and im wondering how YOU define a "family"?

does family have more to do with biological ties and kinship or more about what a person contributes to a household? do you consider same sex couples with or without children a family? what about people who are related but live apart? where does nuclear family end and extended family begin? is it about who lives in a house?
and what about polygamy? lone parents?
also, i was wondering what you think about how families have changed over the years and what you think may cause it?

i would welcome any and all contributions to this train of thought and the more cultural variety, the better.
i havent chosen a project yet for this class, but was thinking about comparing the definitions of family from different cultures. however, this thread is not (for me) about an essay or assignment, but about trying to see how other people feel about families as its such an abstract term when you think about it.

[Miranda]

I think family is very important and in bringing up my children, being a family has been a priority. Although my kids are grown men now, I stayed at home to bring them up while my husband went out to work. This used to be the typical English approach to family life but this has changed and both parents often go out to work now. But I saw it as my 'job,' my duty to bring up my children, to love them, to teach them to love and respect not only each other, but those around them including those different to themselves and to be responsible and caring. Because I brought them into the world, so I saw it as my responsibility to teach them these values and to help them in any way I could. I think it has paid off, cos we are all still very close even though everyone is grown up - its like we are all part of each other and I hope this will remain when they all eventually leave home..which I'm hoping they will one day!!!!

I still regard my brothers and sisters as my family..and we also are very close and I think that I learned to bring my children up from the way that I too was brought up. I have lost my Mum now, but my Dad is really important to me and though I am grown and make my own decisions, I still ask him for advice and value it. I had lots of uncles and aunties, though many have died now, but we have always been close to them also, though not as close to our cousins as we might have been.

I wouldnt see same sex relationships as 'family' though I did have an aunt that lived with her friend for many years This was a friendship though and also a convenience because both were spinsters. My auntie's friend though was always regarded as an Auntie by us all . There were quite a few family friends that we called auntie and uncle because they were close to us and were like aunties and uncles - so much so that as children, we didnt realise they wern't related to us. However as we grew, these have largely disappeared whereas our aunties and uncles were forever - until they died.

I find it very sad that many families now are not really families at all, but a conglomeration of children with different fathers. I feel sad for these children who must at times find it all very confusing, when they shouldnt have to worry or be concerned about such things or their parents relationships, but live in a stable happy environment and enjoy their childhood. But I guess I am old fashioned in saying this and maybe I am old fashioned in my family values . There are few things that should never change..on the whole we have to move forward with everything and it's good to move forward - standing still invariably means getting left behind - but I think some things should never change and the importance of family life and valuesis one of them.

Is this the kind of thing you wanted to know VBM?

[verybaddmom]

yes, miranda. thank you. that is exactly what i was looking for. what i am wondering though, when you said: "I find it very sad that many families now are not really families at all, but a conglomeration of children with different fathers." you meant that while these children all share a home, and a mother, they are still not a family? what then, is your definition of family? and do you consider your aunts and uncles family? or is that where you draw the line between family and extended family?
(please understand, i am in NO WAY disagreeing with your statement, but only trying to clarify, so that i can better understand what you meant)

also, i see that you took pride in being able to stay home and raise your children yourself. what circumstances allowed you to be able to do that? i think that's what i was wondering when i asked about how families have changed. it used to be standard that mothers raised the children from home, and now that is no longer the norm. i wonder what it is that changed it? was it only economics? or was it the combined effect of higher costs of living associated with urban life and greater autonomy for women. eg: women becoming more educated and beginning to drive themselves first for careers and then families and becoming accustomed to working outside the home and then continuing to do so, after starting their families?
(omg, what a run-on sentence!)

[verybaddmom]

i am dragging this back up to the top again, in order to get some more responses...i assume everyone has some sort of family...please tell me about it....:confused:

[nome1486]

I consider everyone I know to be related to me as family. However, I guess there are distant cousins whom I know but have only met once or twice, so for me the term "family" means anyone who comes together at holidays at Grandma's house! I should explain that practically everyone on my mom's side of the family lives in Missouri, and all of her close relatives live right in Independence. As for my dad's side of the family, most of them live in Arizona or other states; I have a couple of first cousins I've never met, but I still consider them family because we are so closely related.

I would consider a nuclear family, or immediate family, as anyone who lives together or is a sibling, parent, or child; extended family would be all other relatives. It's true that these definitions can get confusing with so many different familial situations nowadays, but that's my broad definition, anyway.

I was actually thinking about this thread the other day, and I decided that I don't really consider a couple a family. If you consider the larger picture of the blood relatives of one of the persons, then their spouse/significant other could be considered "one of the family", but in my opinion the two by themselves do not constitute a family until there is someone else in the relationship like a child. I think two people who live together and have a relationship other than that of people in love, like a parent and child, or brother and sister, or even an adoptive parent and child, could be a family because these relationships are something altogether different from a, for want of a better term, sexual relationship. This may seem like an arbitrary way of thinking, but I think that sibling or parent relationships are family by default because you are either born with them or, in the case of adoption, someone chooses to fill a vital role in another person's life. A sexual relationship is a wonderful thing in a different way, but even one that lasts a lifetime is not really "glued" together into a family until there is a third person in the relationship.

Having put my excessive two cents in, I would also say that individually, your family can be whomever you consider it to be, even if other people don't see it that way.

[Koa]

It's a bit complicated... I've never really thought about what a family is for me... Uhm I feel it a bit like an oppressive entity that tries to hold control of your life... I mean, here in Italy families are mostly very close, and mine is probably closer than most... for example, my aunt lives literally around the corner, my granny 5 minutes away... Yet my mum, my aunt and my granny talk to each other on the phone every single day, main topic being what's for dinner... Secondary topic is putting our lives in common, basically I can't take a step without all the family knowing it (and judgind it, espeically cos my granny is a bit of a catholic fundamentalist ;)), and sometimes I find it very oppressive... I don't want to seem ungrateful or whatever, but I see a bit difference with families from northern Europe, where the kids after the age of around 18 are left generally free, while here most people are treated like kids till 30...
It's well known that Italian young people tend to live with parents till 30, and I know in some cases it's because the family is close and the kids just dont even think about leaving till they get married, also because they're used to having mum doing everything... But I know of mothers that practically don't let their kids go and make their own life... Even if, I must add, lots of people would leave the parents' home but just can't afford it, even if they have a job. (I've known only 2 people living alone (one cos his family had a spare flat, the other sharing a flat with many difficulties), plus those who move for Uni but they generally tend to move near enough to go back home every weekend)
So as I said...the traditional family is very close, it's not rare to have a house where on one floor live the old parents and the other their son/daughter with his/her family.

Though of course these days it's not just as simple as it used to be in the past... The age of getting married is higher and higher, averagely I think around 30-35.. it's usually blamed on women wanting to have a career, but I know at least 2 couples in their early/mid 20s that repeat to nausea that if they could afford it they'd marry now... Same for having kids, Italy is the country with the lowest birth rate in the whole world I think (or was it just Europe...) - reasons are varied, again the women in career, but also more and more economic reasons (I read that things for babies cost 3 times more than in France)... which need women to work, but in many cases having a bay would cause them to be fired (I know a friend of many at an interview for a job was asked if she was planning to have children in the next 2-3 years... cos a small business place can't afford that)... So the current attitude is that the concept of family is in 'crisis'... more women working, less importance on marriage (remember it's a country deeply influenced by catholic religion) and growth of unmarried couples, more divorces, less children...

Btw I was a bit suprised about Miranda's post because from the experience I had things in England seemed so different... i realise it depends on the family, but the one I saw was totally the opposite of mine, they seemed more like housemates than a family (for example if we're all at home, for my family it's strange not to have at least the main meal together, while there they didn't seem to mind - even if finally my parents are being more relaxed on family rules lately and there's more freedom...)... Or when we went out in England we just didnt tell anyone, while here I warn parents about where I go and when I'll be back, or I leave a note if noone's around... It seemed just strange to me, but apparently there it wasn't. I've seen really less parents control in any other country I've been to.

Well ok this was a bit of a sociologic report but I like to sum up what i see/notice/read around... Personally, I'm not too bothered... I don't find the concept of family so important, at least in the traditional way... I don't dream of making a family, ie getting married and having kids... I just dream of a life of my own, free from the chains of a family always on my neck, hearing from my mum let's say once a week, not every 24 hours...I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind, but I don't find that it's a thing that matters much, to have a regular family and meet at christmas with all those other relatives (which is something that puts me in a bad mood).. maybe I'd like it to be more free of conventions and rules...

[ravana]

Our families exists just for kids. Here you can't meet a family without kids. If they are not able to have their own ones then they adopt them or just prefer divorsing. Most couples don't collapse their families in sake of kids even when they can stand hardly each other.
The dad is main figure in family, the last word belongs to him. Kid's education, their future career is responsibility of him. Mom is the soul of family and her opinion always make its influence on dad’s last word. She is responsible to brought up kids. It’s so ordinary here when parents do everything for their children; they even can choose specialty and life partner for them, if they are allowed. We don’t marry without our parents’ permission. We keep all our marriage folklore. It’s so interesting. We must follow definite wonderful wedding customs.
Before connecting between relatives was so close. After collapsing USSR we passed over the war because of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Armenia, our 20% territories was occupied and it resulted over 1 000 000 refugees. All these troubles and mainly the social economic regress made us forget about our previous enjoyable life. Nowadays we meet our relatives just in weddings and in funerals

[faith]

Im now giving MY view on "family". Dont know if its an awerage Finns view, but anyway. Im 18 and one of two kids in an awerage Finish family

I dont think that to belong to the same family reguires biological ties. Its more about living together. Here in Finland there are lotsa step families with kids from different families. I concider a such family a family just as well as mine. Kids with divorced parets usually have two families, one with mum and one with dad. My definition of family is a kid and a parent. (Usually there of course are two parents.) I dont concider a boyfrien and a girlfriend living together a family, but then again I dont know about a married childless couple. Ok, they might be concidered a family cos they kinda belong together and a long process is reguired for them to "get rid of each other". Same sex couples can also be conciderd a family if they are married or have a kid living with them, but they are complicated because of todays society. And about nuclear family. Its not necessary those who live in the house. The nuclear family is always the paresnt and kids, however old the kids are. In case of divorce stepparents and stepkids also belong to the nuclearfamily, but only if they sometime have lived together with the rest of the family.

About family having changed. Well, before it was common that for ex grandparents or unmarried aunts and uncles lived with the nuclearfamily. Families have becoem smaller not just because of less kids. Its hard to say if family has become more or less importat. Today many people move far away from their families and that way the families becoem less importat and new people come into the picture. But then again, in todays world, who can u rely on but your family?

Ok, this is just my view of the topic. Thats not necessatyly how it is, even thou I wrote quite far in a matter of fact style.

[verybaddmom]

thank you all for your input on this subject. i think its really interesting that some of you consider same sex couples families if they have children, while married couples without children are harder to define. i wonder then, if "family" is more about what each individual contributes to the raising of children and not to supporting individual adults? hmmm.....i will ponder....

[amuse]

i think of units as family...like i can't really comment on the support of individual adults, except to say that when the ties become really strong between them, they are family.
and the ties of children are pretty powerful, so maybe that makes family ties more obvious.
my bf's (we're back together) family is my family. my girlfriends are my family. my family? well, we're related by blood and experience. it's a different tie, and not always one of love.
i would say that those people who are my family are the ones i do family things with - holidays, sleepovers, children's concerts, children's birthdays, babysitting (i'm rather a spinster aunt :D). my family has a fair amount of love and a fair amount of tension built in.
some of my friends are single or one or two single parents, so we are together filling in the blanks perhaps. i would do anything for these people, as they would for me. there aren't as many people as it might seem like, but these oh, 6 people - i would go to the wire for them.
i think the difference - this sounds awful - between family and strangers/acquaintances for me is that i would as a matter of course give my life to save someone who needed help, but i would gladly do so if it protected my loved ones.
anyway, that's basically all that family is to me - those with whom you will spend the rest of your life.