A Special Imagination

[Ron Price]

THE THICK OF THE HUDDLE

‘Sensation and watchfulness in itself’-a total experience suffused by awareness-is, I believe, what Blake meant by ‘spiritual sensation’; and it is as near as we shall get to a definition of Imagination-the means and instrument by which, in man, that which is creative creates itself. -J. Middleton Murry, Shakespeare, 1936.

Before ultimate silence these poems at home:
I’ve seen them coming for years--the pace, the tone,
the notes, the range. Strident life’s raging chatter
I’ve kept at a distance and so I’ve got fatter.
Those who come onto my personal stage
need me somehow or want to engage.
I rarely seek out neighbours or friends,
but rejoice in the life He willingly sends.
Perhaps it’s just choice, a quiet eye
that broods and sleeps, some inward sigh.
Perhaps I take the endless words
that I have gathered like the birds,
cut out notes here and long bars there,
a trifle sharp, a trifle too bare.

A planet swarming with hords and herds,
teaming with life and plenty of nerds,*
requires some points of silence and thought,
some intensest feelings with words sought
quite explicitly to tell of the tale
of an ineffable life far beyond the pale.
And the adventure right here in fine detail,
fed by some radiance sent in the mail,
past the chaos streaming through life,
with a curb and a rudder to cluster the strife
and the throng from some nethermost fire;
out of the thick of the huddle beauty springs
higher and higher and higher and higher!

Ron Price
28 December 1995

* An Australian term for a fool.

[Miranda]

I think your poem is on the wrong thread Ron, cos this one is for the discussion of Shakespeare. It would probably be better on the personal poetry thread. It can't really be discussed here as it is 'off topic.'

[Logos]

Hi Ron, welcome to the forums!

While you do address Shakespeare in your post, I will move this with a re-direct to the Personal Poetry forum where I think you will get more reads of this that way.

[Miranda]

I find your poems rather hard to understand Ron. I think I've got hold of the meaning then I am lost again. I wonder if you would mind explaining some of this? What does the first line mean.'Before ultimate silence these poems at home. ' I like the line 'Strident life's raging chatter I've kept at a distance' and can imagine someone observing life, while deliberately keeping themselves cut off from it and not becoming a part of it as if other people have no part to play except as if like a video, to be viewed - with no interraction - a sort of 'them and me' situation. But then I dont get the relevance of 'and so I've got fatter.' The poem jumps from a sort of spiritual introverted perspective, to a comment on the physical that doesn't relate to the first part of the sentence and I don't understand it.

I understand the next part, which continues the feeling of observance without proper interraction - the people who come to the stage are seeking to interract, yet they are still the observed and the watcher seems to lend nothing to them except his presence, though he seems thankful to God for them being there. This I suppose would indicate that although he deliberately cuts himself off from the world, yet he still appreciates the fact that the world seeks to interract with him.

I like the idea of words being like birds - both can fly away unless they are imprisoned..gathered by cage or memory and I can understand how the words are then manipulated to form poetry.

The next line about the planet swarming with hords (hordes?) and herds, again echoes the first verse with the feeling of observing the busy world yet having no part in it, separate somehow. But for me the next line spoils it..'teeming with life and plenty of nerds.' I think everone familiar with English will understand the term 'nerds' is not just an Australian one by the way..and is probably understood in every English speaking nation. The reason I don't like this line is because I think your have used the word 'nerds' because it rhymes - it kind of comes over that way. But it does continue the theme of observation while at the same time defining the observers opinion of the people of world..that much of them are foolish. This gives the poem the feeling that the 'observer' has an air of superiority - so that not only does he feel separate, but 'above' the rest of the world - not on the same plane.

I dont think there is a word 'intensest'...but just 'intense' although there is something called 'poetic license. Here, I begin to get muddled up again...I can understand how the observer feels that the people of the world he sees rushing on and off his stage need to be silent observers sometimes too, and get the feeling again of non interraction with others - a separateness that doesn' t allow for the individuality of those rushing by..or the fact that they too once they stop rushing around, also probably stop and think just as the observer does. It's as if the observer lacks insight into those lives and sees just a mass of people he doesnt know, rather than individuals that live, love and feel as he does. Somehow empathy on the part of the observer, is missing. This is in keeping with the rest of poem and the sense of separateness.

However the next lines completely perplex me..I dont know what they are about at all and they seem unrelated to what has gone before. What does life lived 'beyond the pale' mean? I understand the phrase, 'beyond the pale, but in what way are you applying it to life 'lived'. What is this 'radiance sent in the mail'? I can only think its a letter..so letters must be welcome by the 'observer' - it would seem that only the letter, crosses the divide of 'separateness' but theres no explanation why. Obviously someone in the world does matter to this person because he delights in the received letter. Its really hard to fathom. It seems he draws something from the letter which causes him to be inspired to write 'in fine detail' in such a way that he finds the writing an adventure. I dont understand the concept of a 'curb and a rudder to cluster the strife..' it doesnt seem to make any sense to me. A rudder causes a boat to turn..it can't 'cluster' though I suppose a curb could contain. Can't get my head at all round 'the throng from the nethermost fire' and the last lines leave me completly flummoxed! Maybe someone else could understand it better...but its really late now and I'm gonna bed. Perhaps you would enlighten me Ron just what your poem is all about..as you can see, I've made a big effort in trying.



THE THICK OF THE HUDDLE

‘Sensation and watchfulness in itself’-a total experience suffused by awareness-is, I believe, what Blake meant by ‘spiritual sensation’; and it is as near as we shall get to a definition of Imagination-the means and instrument by which, in man, that which is creative creates itself. -J. Middleton Murry, Shakespeare, 1936.

Before ultimate silence these poems at home:
I’ve seen them coming for years--the pace, the tone,
the notes, the range. Strident life’s raging chatter
I’ve kept at a distance and so I’ve got fatter.
Those who come onto my personal stage
need me somehow or want to engage.
I rarely seek out neighbours or friends,
but rejoice in the life He willingly sends.
Perhaps it’s just choice, a quiet eye
that broods and sleeps, some inward sigh.
Perhaps I take the endless words
that I have gathered like the birds,
cut out notes here and long bars there,
a trifle sharp, a trifle too bare.

A planet swarming with hords and herds,
teaming with life and plenty of nerds,*
requires some points of silence and thought,
some intensest feelings with words sought
quite explicitly to tell of the tale
of an ineffable life far beyond the pale.
And the adventure right here in fine detail,
fed by some radiance sent in the mail,
past the chaos streaming through life,
with a curb and a rudder to cluster the strife
and the throng from some nethermost fire;
out of the thick of the huddle beauty springs
higher and higher and higher and higher!

Ron Price
28 December 1995

* An Australian term for a fool.

[emily655321]

I like the flow of it, anyway, in the first stanza. The second stanza gets a bit sing-songy. I understand "an ineffable life far beyond the pale;" it means the narrator had potential for greatness, but that potential has been irrevocably corroded by the way he lived his life. I actually really like the rhythm of this line.

"...the strife/and the throng" is one phrase, and both are "from some nethermost fire." I interpreted it to mean feelings of dismay born of an unexpressed passion within him. But I don't think "throng" is the word you were searching for; it seems to be used to suggest a "din" or "maelstrom" of dissonant emotion -- something along the lines of sound, anyway. But "throng" only means a crowd of people or the act of crowding together, not the noise they produce. Perhaps you meant "and tumult"? I know it's become a cliché pairing, and it doesn't flow as well.

I, too, get the feeling that it's about someone isolated -- whether by his own choice or not -- from the rest of society (physically or emotionally, I don't know), who has grown bitter at the people outside his orb, yet is still pleased when someone makes an effort to connect with him. He feels an elation as of freeing his emotions and reaching out when he writes poetry, because it is the only way he feels comfortable connecting with others.

The rhythm is very nice in some parts, but there are a lot of malapropisms or words that don't quite fit the meaning, which gives me the impression that the language was chosen mainly for the way it sounded and less from a concrete understanding of what it conveys. By the way, this is a common trait of people who are very well-read, but whose vocabulary doesn't get the benefit of much conversational use, hence the understanding comes mainly from written context and is often fairly tenuous. I would strongly recommend keeping a dictionary handy while reading, or better yet an additional scrap-paper-bookmark (if you also use one for quotes) to make note of dubious words and check them later. If you can remember to actually check them, I rarely do. :p

Other than that, what Miranda said.

[Miranda]

I think Ron's gone Em!

[emily655321]

I believe so.

[Miranda]

NOw we'll never know what he meant! Ah well...

[emily655321]

Someone read it. Which is all he wanted.

[Koa]

(indeed...he seemed to have a bit of a show-off technique, by posting anywhere even if it didnt have much to do with the forum section...)

Anyway, I came here to announce that I spotted this guy in another of the forums I go to!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://www.unilang2.org/main/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3159

[amuse]

ah, he's put himself on stage.

[amuse]

Koa, what a very interesting forum! i like this thread: http://www.unilang2.org/main/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3151

[Koa]

Eeheh there's lots of interesting stuff up there (even if often my little brain can't follow such heavy discussion ;))... Feel free to contribute, even posting as a guest is allowed...so far, cos in the latest poll the majority seemed to be against it so maybe soon only registered users will be able to post...anyway that's another of my many internet perversions...

(oh dear, he even replied to me... i don't think he really recognised me as i have another name...mah)

[emily655321]

:lol: Oh no, Koa -- you've been spotted!

That's a really cool forum, btw. Too bad I don't know a lot about languages.

[Koa]

But talking of cultures or just talking crap is no crime :D

[Ron Price]

Apologies to you folks who responded; my problem was that I had no idea anyone had replied. Today while I was doing some what might be called surfing about, I came across your replies. If any of you still exist here,I will try and get back to you with more thoughtful and conversqational idiom.-Ron;)

[Pendragon]

THE THICK OF THE HUDDLE

‘Sensation and watchfulness in itself’-a total experience suffused by awareness-is, I believe, what Blake meant by ‘spiritual sensation’; and it is as near as we shall get to a definition of Imagination-the means and instrument by which, in man, that which is creative creates itself. -J. Middleton Murry, Shakespeare, 1936.

Before ultimate silence these poems at home:
I’ve seen them coming for years--the pace, the tone,
the notes, the range. Strident life’s raging chatter
I’ve kept at a distance and so I’ve got fatter.
Those who come onto my personal stage
need me somehow or want to engage.
I rarely seek out neighbours or friends,
but rejoice in the life He willingly sends.
Perhaps it’s just choice, a quiet eye
that broods and sleeps, some inward sigh.
Perhaps I take the endless words
that I have gathered like the birds,
cut out notes here and long bars there,
a trifle sharp, a trifle too bare.

A planet swarming with hords and herds,
teaming with life and plenty of nerds,*
requires some points of silence and thought,
some intensest feelings with words sought
quite explicitly to tell of the tale
of an ineffable life far beyond the pale.
And the adventure right here in fine detail,
fed by some radiance sent in the mail,
past the chaos streaming through life,
with a curb and a rudder to cluster the strife
and the throng from some nethermost fire;
out of the thick of the huddle beauty springs
higher and higher and higher and higher!

Ron Price
28 December 1995

* An Australian term for a fool.Wow! Ever considered writing for a rap artist? I mean, I am no rap artist, I'm a preacher matter of fact, but reading this you get to want to move your head to imagined music and the words come out fast but clear. It's very good, mate! So much violent rap out there it would be grand to have some of your stuff to listen to.

Pen

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/AbsalomKane/Smilies/PuppyLove.gif

[Ron Price]

Belated thanks, Pendragon. Your words of praise were good for my tired spirit.-Ron in Tasmania

[Ron Price]

This Thread Is An Illustration of the high degree of difference in the appreciation of a piece of writing. This is true of 1000s of pieces of writing. The degree of reaction is often staggering in its extent: from love and joy to disgust and tedium. This would be a good point to end this thread unless, of course, someone wants to pick up on this last idea of "varied responses to the work of writers."-ron:coolgleamA:

[Jerrybaldy]

Although I have only been on a year or so..... Welcome back Ron ;)

[ucello]

Great writing. Will get back to read more closely. Thanks for sharing.

[Ron Price]

Belated thanks, Jerrybaldy and ucello. Your words of apprecation for my presence and my writing are always appreciated.-Ron