Should drugs be legalized?

[Bakiryu]

Would legalizing marijuana, heroin, acid and such other drugs help lower their consume?

What do you think?

[Granny5]

Would legalizing marijuana, heroin, acid and such other drugs help lower their consume?

What do you think?


Well, you are talking about different classes of drugs here. Marijuana is one thing, heroin and acid are a totally different thing. I think that to legalize any one of them would increase the use of them. Why would anyone want to legalize heroin and acid???

[Bakiryu]

Why would anyone want to legalize heroin and acid???

I don't know, I was discussing something with my friends with the subject came up!

[NikolaiI]

They might close this thread, but I absolutely think marijuana should be legalized, or else alcohol made illegal, because one is far worse (more destructive and addictive) than the other, and it isn't marijuana. About the others I also think they should be made legal, for the reason of what happened when they made alcohol illegal- it gave a huge boost to organized crime. I don't think the government should make such decisions about if we're allowed to use drugs or not. And it bothers me all the lies the government spreads about drugs, at least marijuana...they used to say it made you a killer and insane, I guess now all they say is it makes you run people over.

Oh, and acid, people have said really good things about that. Psychotherapists used it and some patients said they got as much benefit as from years of therapy. Not that it always does that for all people, but I can definitely see the benefit of reworking all the neural networks, or whatever it is that it does... and I don't think all these things shouldn't be regulated, they should... anyway I believe once they were all legal in Switzerland? Like you could go to a doctor and pay to get two shots of morphine a day, or something like that. Anyway...it eliminated crime, but they discontinued it after two years because all the junkies from neighbouring countries were coming over...and I don't have a source for that so I could be wildly wrong.

And you're right about them being different kinds of drugs. Some are synthetic and marijuana is grown, for example.

[Bakiryu]

Oh, and acid, people have said really good things about that. Psychotherapists used it and some patients said they got as much benefit as from years of therapy. Not that it always does that for all people, but I can definitely see the benefit of reworking all the neural networks, or whatever it is that it does...

Yes, but I heard from a source that will remain unnamed that 20 years or so later (or just five) you can be walking down the street and just have a random acid trip and it can even happen to a pregnant female!

[Nightshade]

Thread move to general Chat where it will get more responses

[NikolaiI]

Yes, but I heard from a source that will remain unnamed that 20 years or so later (or just five) you can be walking down the street and just have a random acid trip and it can even happen to a pregnant female!

Yeah I've heard that, flashbacks or something. And if you do it a whole lot it can mess you up a lot, but it also can be good for you I understand. At least, if you do it only a few times, then it can be a good thing as an experience, like a peak experience. But I have several friends who have done it, and one at least wishes he hadn't, because he did it a whole lot and it's messed him up. I never would have thought it, but he says things make him nervous that wouldn't before..

[the silent x]

i think marijuana should be made legal, but at certain places only, like opium dens in ancient china, they weren't just about getting high, they were also about meeting with friends and having a stoned conversation. it would also have to be allowed in one's private home. if you made all drugs legal that would only be legal in certain areas such as a "drug den" then there would always be someone within a few minutes walk of such a place as to keep consumption under control and prevent the "to much of a good thing is bad" syndrome then it would be perfectly fine.

the only thing is, i think this will get passed in court at the same time as elimination of all nuclear weapons in America

[papayahed]

I think drugs, of all types should be legal. I was just reading in the Atlantic Monthly that the US war on drugs is over 30 years old AND currently there is more illegal drugs (cocaine) coming into this country then ever before. I'm not saying that this should be the reason to legalize drugs but there are better ways to spend money, what would the cost be to divert all that money to treatment programs? I don't have the total cost of the war but it was significant.

You can argue that drugs are harmful and addictive, but so is alcohol, ciggarettes, gambling, bungy jumping, and trans fats...

[Virgil]

You mean have all these stoned people out on the streets and out of jobs and needing more support and God knows what other havoc they will cause to society? What I have seen in studies is that if you legalize drugs (I forget the percentage) but there will be a significant increase in usage. So what's the logic here: One cannot get thyroid medication without a prescription, but you can get heroin?

[NikolaiI]

You mean have all these stoned people out on the streets and out of jobs and needing more support and God knows what other havoc they will cause to society? What I have seen in studies is that if you legalize drugs (I forget the percentage) but there will be a significant increase in usage. So what's the logic here: One cannot get thyroid medication without a prescription, but you can get heroin?

Well that should be considered; I'm not sure I'm convinced of that. What do you make of the counter-example that occurred in reality, of prohibition? People did not lower their usage, but everyone who did so was now a criminal, things became much more dangerous, and organized crime got a large boost.

Anyway, the other thing to consider is whether or not the government has the right to prohibit it, and lastly, what do you think of marijuana? Do you think it should be illegal, and alcohol legal, like it is right now in the States? If it were made legal, people wouldn't have to go through criminals to get it, and wouldn't be a criminal for doing it. Do you really think we should be housing all these drug-users in prison, some for only marijuana? And do you think marijuana is really worse than alcohol?

Why are cigarettes and alcohol legal? Alcohol is a hard drug, and cigarettes are very bad for you.

[papayahed]

You mean have all these stoned people out on the streets and out of jobs and needing more support and God knows what other havoc they will cause to society? What I have seen in studies is that if you legalize drugs (I forget the percentage) but there will be a significant increase in usage. So what's the logic here: One cannot get thyroid medication without a prescription, but you can get heroin?

You can get cigarettes without a perscription can't you? What's the difference? What was the reasoning behind keeping cigarettes leagl while making everything else illegal, could it have something to do with the tobacco plantations belonging to the rulemakers?

[Bakiryu]

Why are cigarettes and alcohol legal? Alcohol is a hard drug, and cigarettes are very bad for you.

Exactly, if these kinds of drugs can be legal, why not others? I mean I can drink my arsch off but I can't get stoned? Is practically the same thing!

[Nightshade]

You can argue that drugs are harmful and addictive, but so is alcohol, ciggarettes, gambling, bungy jumping, and trans fats...
Trans fats? whats that? Dont forget books on that list paya...n fact people with addictive personalities can get addicted to anything. In fact any addiction is potentionally harmful.


You mean have all these stoned people out on the streets and out of jobs and needing more support and God knows what other havoc they will cause to society?
People who want to do drugs are going to do them.


What I have seen in studies is that if you legalize drugs (I forget the percentage) but there will be a significant increase in usage. So what's the logic here: One cannot get thyroid medication without a prescription, but you can get heroin?

No you would need a precription obviously it would be controlled like with outher potinally addictive drugs that we use as medication. But the differance would of course be if they more widley available legally surley you undercut the market for illegal trafficing and bang the whole drugs market collapses ....(well in nights perfect world theory anyway).
Course it could backfire horribly but what plan doesnt?

[crisaor]

No.

And people should just stop comparing apples to oranges. Marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes and heroine aren't even in the same dimension.

Alcohol isn't a hard drug, and this is a non-alcohol drinker speaking.

The fact that you can get addicted to something doesn't mean it's a drug.

The only scenario where I would even start considering it, is when everything else (and I do mean everything) is taken care of (ie no poverty, no unwilling unemployment, etc.), and only when it's heavily regulated and it's still perceived as a bad thing to do. Mayhaps it works in Holland, but for most of the rest of the world, I believe it's a big no-no.

[barbara0207]

Marijuana isn't as harmless as some of you make out. It can lead to serious mental disorder which is very hard to cure (if at all). My daughter is a psychologist, and she has seen several cases recently, which changed her opinion on that drug.

On the other hand it is certainly right what night and others said: you can get addicted from all kinds of things, and anything that is illegal will boost organized crime. But governments have to draw the line somewhere. It may not be perfect the way it is today (especially in some states where people who are caught with just a little bit of marijuana are treated like serious offenders), but on the whole I think the line is right.

As for cigarettes: More and more governments have banned smoking in public areas. As far as I know that has reduced cigarette consumption - without encouraging organized crime. Haven't thought this through yet, but maybe one could think along these lines??

[NikolaiI]

No.

And people should just stop comparing apples to oranges. Marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes and heroine aren't even in the same dimension.

What exactly do you mean by this? I take it you feel strongly that drugs should not be legalized, but I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Please elaborate. Do you consider alcohol and nicotine to be drugs?


Alcohol isn't a hard drug, and this is a non-alcohol drinker speaking.

I disagree, but let's not get into whether it's a hard drug or not. Do you think it is 'softer' or better for you, than marijuana? Do you think marijuana is worse, and if not, what reason is it illegal and alcohol not?

[Bakiryu]

No.
The fact that you can get addicted to something doesn't mean it's a drug.



ad·dic·tion /əˈdɪkʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-dik-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

nar·cot·ic /nɑrˈkɒtɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nahr-kot-ik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. any of a class of substances that blunt the senses, as opium, morphine, belladonna, and alcohol, that in large quantities produce euphoria, stupor, or coma, that when used constantly can cause habituation or addiction, and that are used in medicine to relieve pain, cause sedation, and induce sleep.

Main Entry: drug
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: medication
Synonyms: biologic, cure, depressant, dope*, essence, medicament, medicinal, medicine, narcotic, opiate, pharmaceutic, pharmaceutical, physic, pill, poison, potion, prescription, remedy, sedative, stimulant, tonic




You were saying?

(Quoted from Dictionary.com)

[Nightshade]

No.

And people should just stop comparing apples to oranges. Marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes and heroine aren't even in the same dimension.

Alcohol isn't a hard drug, and this is a non-alcohol drinker speaking.

The fact that you can get addicted to something doesn't mean it's a drug.
.

Granted potentially harmful isnt in the ssame boat as deffinetly harmful.

[JBI]

Sure why not; it's not as if the rates of use will change, and perhaps less people will be harmed because of safer ways to obtain the drugs. Of course, on a lighter note, the money that goes into health care in my country (Canada) could be increased due to tax revenues from drugs.

[crisaor]

What exactly do you mean by this? I take it you feel strongly that drugs should not be legalized, but I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Please elaborate. Do you consider alcohol and nicotine to be drugs?
I meant that people are putting them in the same bag as if they were similar things. Obviously alcohol is radically different from heroine.

I don't think alcohol is a drug (or at least, not like the others), although I understand the arguments against it. Nicotine has an addictive nature and a pletora of other harmful effects, so I'd have to say it's a drug. And yes, I'm up for banning cigarettes (and measures are being taken in this regard since quite a while).


I disagree, but let's not get into whether it's a hard drug or not. Do you think it is 'softer' or better for you, than marijuana? Do you think marijuana is worse, and if not, what reason is it illegal and alcohol not?
Yes, marijuana is worse than alcohol, and I think that is the main reason one is legal and the other is not. Habit can also play a role in this regard (alcohol is often called a 'social drug').


You were saying?
(Quoted from Dictionary.com)
Have you actually read the very definitions you posted? Most of that list is made up by narcotics, which have a definite effect on the senses. I said repetitive consumption of X product doesn't necessarily make X a drug. So if I pick the habit of eating 4 apples a day does it mean apples are a drug? Is Coca-Cola a drug? Are video games a drug? Is Ice-cream? Consider radically obese people, is food a drug?


Granted potentially harmful isnt in the ssame boat as deffinetly harmful
Indeed. It is, however, a distinction that some here fail to recognise.

[Bakiryu]

Have you actually read the very definitions you posted? Most of that list is made up by narcotics, which have a definite effect on the senses. I said repetitive consumption of X product doesn't necessarily make X a drug. So if I pick the habit of eating 4 apples a day does it mean apples are a drug? Is Coca-Cola a drug? Are video games a drug? Is Ice-cream? Consider radically obese people, is food a drug?



Narcotic is just a synonym of drug. For radically obese people food is an addiction but since they actually NEED IT TO LIVE it should not be considered as such. Now, do you need ALCOHOL to live? No.

[Nightshade]

The dangers of alchol are arguable but it is not something I am willing to argue about for several reasons. I will say though that one of the bigger dangers of 'drugs' and alchol as oppsed to tobbaco is that they impare your judgment and can lead you to become a danger to people around you and yourself.


Narcotic is just a synonym of drug.

Its not actually although it is increasing used as such

narcotic, n. 1. a. Med. A drug which when swallowed, inhaled, or injected into the system induces drowsiness, stupor, or insensibility, according to its strength and the amount taken; esp. an opiate.

b. In extended use: something that produces torpor or boredom.

2. orig. U.S. A drug affecting mood or behaviour which is sold for non-medical purposes, esp. one whose use is prohibited or under strict legal control but which tends nevertheless to be extensively used illegally. Freq. in pl.



So I guess sit depends if you are using the US definition or the rest of the medical technical definition.

[crisaor]

Narcotic is just a synonym of drug.
Perhaps, but that is irrelevant to my previous sentence (getting addicted to something doesn't make something a drug).


For radically obese people food is an addiction but since they actually NEED IT TO LIVE it should not be considered as such. Now, do you need ALCOHOL to live? No.
No. Radically obese people are addicted to food, and they need food to live, but not in the quantities they ingest it (and not all of which they eat is necessary, ie candy and the like). In this case, it's their consumption behaviour which is addictive, not the object they're consuming (as that would make everyone of us drug addicts). I take it since you make the distinction if something is a drug or not if it's necessary to live, you consider ice-cream to be a drug?

[NikolaiI]

I meant that people are putting them in the same bag as if they were similar things. Obviously alcohol is radically different from heroine.

Where? When? I would not be offended if you said I had.


I don't think alcohol is a drug

Alcohol is a drug. Just say that to an AA group.


Yes, marijuana is worse than alcohol, and I think that is the main reason one is legal and the other is not. Habit can also play a role in this regard (alcohol is often called a 'social drug').

Alcohol is a hard drug, buddy...just take a couple shots of hard liquor...it's not enjoyable. Marijuana is not a hard drug.


Indeed. It is, however, a distinction that some here fail to recognise.

what??...what does this mean?..


Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_drugs

I didn't know if this would support my statement that alcohol is a hard drug, but apparently it does.

Another thing- you can overdose on alcohol, but you cannot overdose on marijuana. Or you can, but it involves smoking too much for two weeks or so. Then it can cause brain damage, but in one day you can't kill yourself with the drug. You can, however, with the drug alcohol. Consider this, and read the wiki thing possibly, and then decide if you still think alcohol is not a drug, or if it not a hard drug or worse than marijuana.

[crisaor]

Where? When? I would not be offended if you said I had.
You and Papaya implied such a thing.


Alcohol is a drug. Just say that to an AA group.
Food is a drug. Just say it isn't to a group of morbidly obese people.
Video-games are a drug. Just say it isn't to a group of teenagers with seizures/social inadaptation probles.
Excercise is a drug. Just say it isn't to someone stricken with vigorexia.

I could go on, but you get the point Nikolai. Alcohol doesn't make you addicted per se (like nicotine, for instance), it's your own behaviour that does that. Britney might be adicted to Coca-Cola, I'm not.


Alcohol is a hard drug, buddy...just take a couple shots of hard liquor...it's not enjoyable. Marijuana is not a hard drug.
Oh, I agree, it's not enjoyable, that doesn't make it a drug, though. I bet Mezcalina feels really nice, but it's still a drug. Marijuana MIGHT not be a hard drug, but it's still a drug.


what??...what does this mean?..
It's the point I'm discussing with Bakiryu.

[applepie]

I think that drugs should be legal, but in a limited sense. Acid and heroine, no way should those be made legal. Marijuana, that should be legal, but it should be regulated much like cigs and alcohol. I even think that mushrooms should be legal, but I have a good reason. Both mushrooms and marijuana are natuarally grown. There is nothing man-made about them, and short of drying you don't need to do anything to prep them. Many other drugs are heavily processed to increase their effect, ans some are nothing more than poisons tossed together. Have you ever read about what meth does to a person and how it is made??? That isn't something that should ever be made legal. I'm rambling now, so I'm off to better collect my thoughts. I'll post here again later, maybe...

[crisaor]

Another thing- you can overdose on alcohol, but you cannot overdose on marijuana. Or you can, but it involves smoking too much for two weeks or so. Then it can cause brain damage, but in one day you can't kill yourself with the drug. You can, however, with the drug alcohol. Consider this, and read the wiki thing possibly, and then decide if you still think alcohol is not a drug, or if it not a hard drug or worse than marijuana.
I guess it boils down on how you measure it. If you're gonna compare smoking a single joint to drinking your guts out the whole day, then the answer is pretty much obvious. I'd say that that smoking marijuana is definitly more harmful than having a glass of beer, wouldn't you? I'm also guessing that periodically smoking marijuana will waste you a lot faster than periodically drinking a beer.

[Bakiryu]

No. Radically obese people are addicted to food, and they need food to live, but not in the quantities they ingest it (and not all of which they eat is necessary, ie candy and the like). In this case, it's their consumption behavior which is addictive, not the object they're consuming (as that would make everyone of us drug addicts). I take it since you make the distinction if something is a drug or not if it's necessary to live, you consider ice-cream to be a drug?

Yes, but consider that these people are also influenced by outside factors: stress, other problems and also being troubled about their weight. When these people decide to do something about themselves the world just brings then down and they just eat to overcompensate.


you consider ice-cream to be a drug?

Is it chocolate ice-cream? :lol: (sorry, couldn't help myself)


If you're addicted to something it's your drug but that doesn't mean it should be outlawed unless if affected more people than just you and was not necessary to live. Food IS a drug for certain people, but you it's not like you can just make a law saying that nobody can consume it.

In the other hand, food is a basic necessity but do you really, really need, let's say, vodka?

[papayahed]

You and Papaya implied such a thing.


I did insinuate that alcohol, cigarettes, cocaine, and heroin are the same. Aside from the legal factor what's the difference?

[Nightshade]

I think that drugs should be legal, but in a limited sense. Acid and heroine, no way should those be made legal. Marijuana, that should be legal, but it should be regulated much like cigs and alcohol. I even think that mushrooms should be legal, but I have a good reason. Both mushrooms and marijuana are natuarally grown. There is nothing man-made about them, and short of drying you don't need to do anything to prep them. Many other drugs are heavily processed to increase their effect, ans some are nothing more than poisons tossed together. Have you ever read about what meth does to a person and how it is made??? That isn't something that should ever be made legal. I'm rambling now, so I'm off to better collect my thoughts. I'll post here again later, maybe...

I dont does that fact that something is natural mean it should be legal? Or does it make them harmless I think not.

What are mushrooms?

I think the most dangerous thing...drugs aside is the attitude that goes with them even marijauna. Last year in my first flat there was dealing and smoking of weed going on When I asked why after pay through there teeth to get on a social services course the girl was risking it all there answers -- We are stundets living on the edge breaking all the rules. Were students living on the edge and breaking all the rules landed us with on fire in our kitchen and a £1000+ fine to pay... and they tried to blame it on me :mad: :flare: :rage:.

Yeah so still dont see the point in taking drugs recreationally seems a bit stupid to me.... but since Ive never tried it I guess there must be something that compels people to. (Try it that is)

[Bakiryu]

Yeah so still dont see the point in taking drugs recreationally seems a bit stupid to me.... but since Ive never tried it I guess there must be something that compels people to. (Try it that is)

I wonder why, it's not really that interesting. is just like "oooh, look at me I'm taking mind-altering substances that make me feel really great and see things that aren't there. woot."

Doesn't sound really interesting, if I want to see things that don't exist, I would just rent a movie or read a book. :D

[Nightshade]

I wonder why, it's not really that interesting. is just like "oooh, look at me I'm taking mind-altering substances that make me feel really great and see things that aren't there. woot."

Doesn't sound really interesting, if I want to see things that don't exist, I would just rent a movie or read a book. :D

I dont even need that I just need a little sugur.... actually they used to say that at school...Night doesnt need alchol shes gets high off life. I get excited by silly little things like computer chairs!! *shrugs* :D

[crisaor]

Yes, but consider that these people are also influenced by outside factors: stress, other problems and also being troubled about their weight. When these people decide to do something about themselves the world just brings then down and they just eat to overcompensate.
Agreed. But that implies that the source of their problem is clearly something other than the food, which is what I've been trying to tell you. Being addicted to something doesn't mean it's a drug. Would you say you're addicted to animes? Let's say you are, would that make them a drug? Of course not.


If you're addicted to something it's your drug but that doesn't mean it should be outlawed unless if affected more people than just you and was not necessary to live. Food IS a drug for certain people, but you it's not like you can just make a law saying that nobody can consume it.
But that would make for a poor definition of 'drug' don't you think? It shouldn't depend on every single individual out there. When it doesn't fit the already established definition, we're talking about addictions here, not drugs. Addictions which can go in a wide variety of ways (to power, fame, attention, approval, etc.).


In the other hand, food is a basic necessity but do you really, really need, let's say, vodka?
No. But then again, you don't really really need books either, you can survive without them. Furthermore, necessity is a relative concept (ie vodka can be more necessary if you live in a freezing place), and it shouldn't be a factor at all.


I did insinuate that alcohol, cigarettes, cocaine, and heroin are the same. Aside from the legal factor what's the difference?
Are you serious? I can show you a lot of people that have been drinking in moderation for decades, and they're not worse off than the average person their age. I can't say the same about smokers, and let's not even talk about heroine. If you can show me a heroine consumer that literally doesn't lack a brain, I'll give you a cookie.

Really, I hope you were just being a smartass there.

[Virgil]

Anyway, the other thing to consider is whether or not the government has the right to prohibit it, and lastly, what do you think of marijuana? Do you think it should be illegal, and alcohol legal, like it is right now in the States? If it were made legal, people wouldn't have to go through criminals to get it, and wouldn't be a criminal for doing it. Do you really think we should be housing all these drug-users in prison, some for only marijuana? And do you think marijuana is really worse than alcohol?

Why are cigarettes and alcohol legal? Alcohol is a hard drug, and cigarettes are very bad for you.
The government already makes it illegal, has done it it in the US for decades. It has the right to protect society. Cigarettes are legal because they are not mind altering. Alcohol would not be legal if we were all to start from scratch. But because we have had several millenium of alcohol use and so it has been incoporated into society. It is institutionalized. It is part of our culture.


You can get cigarettes without a perscription can't you? What's the difference? What was the reasoning behind keeping cigarettes leagl while making everything else illegal, could it have something to do with the tobacco plantations belonging to the rulemakers?

See my response above. Does it make sense to institutionalize more harmful products? Government is trying to do its darndest to reduce cigarette and alcohol use. Legalizing more harmful products is counter to the general thrust.

Plus I saw what you said about the Atlantic Monthly article. I don't know if that's true. Last time I saw statistics, drug use was down in the US.

[chasestalling]

if drug regulation was strictly an ethical one then yes it would make sense to legalize all drugs. i've a hunch that it's an economic one, however, and knowing human nature i doubt the profiteers would ever allow this to happen.

[the silent x]

I guess it boils down on how you measure it. If you're gonna compare smoking a single joint to drinking your guts out the whole day, then the answer is pretty much obvious. I'd say that that smoking marijuana is definitly more harmful than having a glass of beer, wouldn't you? I'm also guessing that periodically smoking marijuana will waste you a lot faster than periodically drinking a beer.

now you did post some very good responses in this quote such as smoking one joint is not equal to drinking one beer, so i am going to have to use this quote for my debate class. now you said comparing smoking one joint to drinking all day. when that was not really compared. they compared drinking your guts out all day versus smoking like a perpetual smokestack of marijuana for two weeks. slight difference, such as 13 days.

earlier on, crisaor, you said you didn't drink alcohol. you also haven't smoked marijuana (to my knowledge). so how can you know the comparison. i have done neither of these so i can't make the comparison either. but crisaor, you seem to be bringing coca-cola into the conversation a lot. do you drink any one of the following:
coffee (any kind)
tea (any kind)
cola
mountain dew
mello yellow
pepsi-cola
vault
monster
rockstar
red bull
any drink with caffiene in it?

if you answered yes, then


DRUG USER!!!!!!

caffiene is a drug. if you don't believe me, stop drinking caffiene for a week or two, those pounding headaches are things called WITHDRAWLS

one thing a country could do with legal drugs, is to tax the crud out of it, make a lot of money off of the people that are hooked.
those are my thoughts, please contradict me

[Shalot]

Well, you are talking about different classes of drugs here. Marijuana is one thing, heroin and acid are a totally different thing. I think that to legalize any one of them would increase the use of them. Why would anyone want to legalize heroin and acid???

See, i would have put marijuana and acid in one category and heroin (and meth) in a whole nother category of "do not do this if you don't want to ruin your life" activities...but that's just me.

Edit

There are all kinds of drugs, some are addictive and some are not. here's my informal classification:

Cigarettes and Alcohol - Legal and Addictive
Cigarettes and alcohol are both legal, but both are addictive and hard to kick. But as someone said, they're so entrenched in our culture that they're is no point in criminalizing those. But of course, for the first time, the college I am attending has made the campus smoke free. I personally don't like cigarettes - they do nothing except stink and kill you. ( At least with marijuana you get a buzz he he )

Marijuana and Acid: Illegal and Not Good for You, But You Can Use Once or 2wice and Go About Your Life
Marijuana and acid are not addictive. I've read that in more than one journal. Lots of people use these drugs, some more than others, and then they go about their lives as normal without needing to light up a joint after dinner or drop a hit of acid after a long day at work. I've also read that if there is a history of mental illness/schizophrenia in a person that uses these, these drugs can somehow bring out that illness and/or speed up the onset of symptoms etc. I don't know if it would be accurate to say that the drugs cause the condition, however. Maybe someone else who has studied this in more detail can say. I do know that you get different answers to that question depending on the source.

Heroin Meth Cocaine - Illegal and DON'T DO IT
Heroin, meth, cocaine are drugs I would put into the category of just "Do NOT do, do not experiment, do not touch, do not consider unless you have a death wish and want to ruin your life beyond all hope. Heroin and meth are terribly addictive. I know of people who have casually used cocaine and they don't do it anymore, however I just don't like it and I think there is a good chance you could become addicted to this and it would mess up your life (though not as much as heroin or meth). Maybe someone else would put cocaine in the marijuana/acid category.

I don't know, maybe if life didn't suck so much we wouldn't have to have this discussion. :)

[crisaor]

now you said comparing smoking one joint to drinking all day. when that was not really compared. they compared drinking your guts out all day versus smoking like a perpetual smokestack of marijuana for two weeks. slight difference, such as 13 days.
That's correct. However, from that last statement, Nikolai implied that marijuana is "less hard" than alcohol because it takes longer to waste you if abused (which I just assume as true for the sake of discussion, I doubt you'll be in a human condition after a full day of smoking pot). To which I responded with what I said, that you can conclude whatever you wish depending the measure you take. The one joint vs. a crapload of booze was merely an example in this direction.


earlier on, crisaor, you said you didn't drink alcohol. you also haven't smoked marijuana (to my knowledge). so how can you know the comparison.
Try avoiding that argument, it cheapens any discussion.


but crisaor, you seem to be bringing coca-cola into the conversation a lot. do you drink any one of the following:
Of that list, I drink coffee, tea, and Coke. Coffee less frequently than the others.


DRUG USER!!!!!!
caffiene is a drug. if you don't believe me, stop drinking caffiene for a week or two, those pounding headaches are things called WITHDRAWLS
*SIGH*

Already did, no headaches or other ill effects.

Perhaps there are other words you wish to call me?

I believe we can both do without that.

[the silent x]

i agree with you shalot, i know i didn't make it clear, but i was going for only marijuana to be legalized, maybe shrooms




Try avoiding that argument, it cheapens any discussion.



but it is very pertinent to the discussion, how can you know what it is like to be high when you have only read about it. like trying to lift 400 hundred pounds by reading a positive thought book

[Bakiryu]

caffiene is a drug. if you don't believe me, stop drinking caffiene for a week or two, those pounding headaches are things called WITHDRAWLS



I've drunk coffee with milk since childhood because my family couldn't afford chocolate. I have been in this country since 2003 only drinking it in odd days and I've never had a headache or another symtom of withdrawal, what say you to that?


Agreed. But that implies that the source of their problem is clearly something other than the food, which is what I've been trying to tell you. Being addicted to something doesn't mean it's a drug. Would you say you're addicted to animes? Let's say you are, would that make them a drug? Of course not.


Unless there was anime that would change my thinking patter, anime doesn't really affect in any way. Drugs should be classified as things that can affect you and the way you think. to some people religion is a drug.



I can show you a lot of people that have been drinking in moderation for decades, and they're not worse off than the average person their age. I can't say the same about smokers, and let's not even talk about heroine. If you can show me a heroine consumer that literally doesn't lack a brain, I'll give you a cookie.


What about internal alcohol damage? have you actually seem these person's liver? Alcohol damages physically and mentally like any other drug.

[crisaor]

but it is very pertinent to the discussion, how can you know what it is like to be high when you have only read about it. like trying to lift 400 hundred pounds by reading a positive thought book
It's just as lame as saying how can you know jumping off an airplane with a parachute is better than without one since you haven't done it.

The argument behind that reasoning is that knowledge can only come through personal experience, which simply isn't true.

Plus, I find it annoying and insulting to the discussion, to say the least.



Unless there was anime that would change my thinking patter, anime doesn't really affect in any way.
Neither does regular food. Are you planning on actually addressing the point of my comments or are you gonna keep on turning a blind eye?


What about internal alcohol damage? have you actually seem these person's liver?
What, you want me to present you with the X-Ray? Get serious.

[Bakiryu]

Fine. I'm not turning a blind eye (just skimming over the topic while watching anime on the side :D). I wonder if X knows how being high feels since he is adding that to the discussion?

[the silent x]

no ryu i don't know how it feels which is why i am not trying to compare the alcohol/cigarrette to the drug high

it is not like saying jumping out of a plane with or without a parachute, without a parachute, your gonna be a crater in the ground, laws of physics make that one possible. and the jumpers off of buildings. unless you want to start doing fyntenol, you will be jumping out of an airplane with a parachute on your back, it might deploy and you might not O.D. or it might not deploy and you O.D. it's a risk that every druggee and jumper takes.

so we should side step my input because you find it annoying but we should keep on discussing yours, now that doesn't seem right. until someone else expresses annoyance at it, i will not take back my argument.

now when you say regular food, you yourself stated that morbidly obese people normally get fat off of sweets, which i define as something with sugar in it that makes five year old children have a "sugar rush/high" not unlike cocaine which makes drug users act hyper.

no, we would not like you to get an x-ray, merely look at pictures of a smoker's lung when it has been removed from the body, it looks remarkable next to a non-smoker's lung.

oh yeah, crisaor, did you enjoy watching The Wizard of Oz? (serious question)

[crisaor]

it is not like saying jumping out of a plane with or without a parachute, without a parachute, your gonna be a crater in the ground, laws of physics make that one possible. and the jumpers off of buildings.
How do you know the laws of physics still apply at that height? Have you actually jumped?

What's the difference between knowing the laws of physics and knowing the medical effects attached to the things in question?

Don't you see how idiotic is this line of reasoning you want to employ? Keep it if you want, I couldn't care less. Don't expect me to be subject to it, though.


oh yeah, crisaor, did you enjoy watching The Wizard of Oz? (serious question)
Yeah, right.


Fine. I'm not turning a blind eye (just skimming over the topic while watching anime on the side ). I wonder if X knows how being high feels since he is adding that to the discussion?
It's settled, then. I don't think I can stand up to the teenager+anime combo anyways.

[kilted exile]

A few things to address:

I am in favour of legalising the controlled sale & distribution of MJ (but with the same restrictions as in place in numerous countries now regarding "normal" smoking, with the added clause restricting its use when walking along the street). I have known/know currently people who use MJ on a fairly regular basis but are still perfectly capable of carrying out their required duties in a very capable manner.

I am not in favour of the legalisation of any other currently controlled substance, including 'shrooms; uppers; eccies or tabs. All of these I do believe have been shown to be much more habit forming than weed & have more serious side-effects associated with prolonged use, however at this point in time I cant really be bothered searching for the links.

Caffiene has been brought up, now whilst this may fit the pharmacological definition of a drug, the side-effects associated with withdrawal are definitely believed to be more mental than physical.

Now to the personal part: I have perused alcohol, tobacco, MJ and on one occassion magic mushies. I no longer smoke either tobacco or weed (both were really more of a stress relief mechanism). I do still drink (on occassion far too much). Like with everything moderation is the key, unfortunately with the harder drugs moderation is too hard to do.......

[papayahed]

The government already makes it illegal, has done it it in the US for decades. It has the right to protect society. Cigarettes are legal because they are not mind altering.

What? That makes no sense. Cigarettes do alter brain chemistry. Cigarettes are legal because it's big business, back in the day what politician was going to vote to outlaw cigarettes, especially if you had tobacco farms in your state??? Even today the tobacco industry has a very strong lobby. Interesting side note : a friend of mine interviewed at a tobacco company. It wasn't stated but it was strongly implied that if he wanted to "do well" in the company he should be smoking at least packs a week.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=191


Alcohol would not be legal if we were all to start from scratch. But because we have had several millenium of alcohol use and so it has been incoporated into society. It is institutionalized. It is part of our culture.

How can you possibly make that claim? Wasn't alcohol banned in the US once? How'd that turn out?



See my response above. Does it make sense to institutionalize more harmful products? Government is trying to do its darndest to reduce cigarette and alcohol use. Legalizing more harmful products is counter to the general thrust.

Please see the link above. I have to disagree with you here, I have never seen or heard of any program the government has instituted to reduce alcohol use...but I can tell you about all the jello shot and beer booths sponsored by Fire and Police departments.




Plus I saw what you said about the Atlantic Monthly article. I don't know if that's true. Last time I saw statistics, drug use was down in the US

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200707/cocaine


I was wrong about one thing, the war on drugs has been going on for 37 years. It's not the whole article, it says that a gram of cocaine goes for $50 in the streets of america, that's half the price it was in the late 80's.




Are you serious? I can show you a lot of people that have been drinking in moderation for decades, and they're not worse off than the average person their age. I can't say the same about smokers, and let's not even talk about heroine. If you can show me a heroine consumer that literally doesn't lack a brain, I'll give you a cookie.


OK, perhaps it was a little much to include heroin, but I can show you a lot of pot smokers who have done it in moderation for years and are no worse for wear.

[Bakiryu]

I just think some things should be legal and other prohibited but by providing a supply (just testing it) the government could undercut the black market AND make a lot of money on the side :D

[Granny5]

Caffiene is an addictive drug. If one drinks enough or takes enough caffiene pills, there will be withdrawals when it is stopped. Caffiene is classified as a drug. Food can be addictive but food isn't a drug. Not all drugs are addictive. Antibiotics aren't usually addictive and they are classed as drugs. Now, I believe that there are people who can become addicted to mj as well acid and any other normally considered non-addictive drugs. I think there are people who just become addicted to things, like coffee, drugs, picking their nose. They just have that type of personality. But, why would we want to legalize something else to cause more problems? The police have enough to deal with just keeping the drunk drivers from killing us so why would we want to put pot heads out there in bigger numbers than they already are?

[papayahed]

But, why would we want to legalize something else to cause more problems? The police have enough to deal with just keeping the drunk drivers from killing us so why would we want to put pot heads out there in bigger numbers than they already are?

I think that if drugs were legalized there may be an intial increase in usage but then go back to the same rate of usage as prior to legalization. I'm basing that premise on the fact that it isn't difficult to get drugs, in fact it's pretty easy and I don't think the fact that it's illegal is detering anybody from doing drugs. Those that want it will do it either way.

[jon1jt]

Well, you are talking about different classes of drugs here. Marijuana is one thing, heroin and acid are a totally different thing. I think that to legalize any one of them would increase the use of them. Why would anyone want to legalize heroin and acid???


for Moksha. :D

[Bakiryu]

I think that if drugs were legalized there may be an intial increase in usage but then go back to the same rate of usage as prior to legalization. I'm basing that premise on the fact that it isn't difficult to get drugs, in fact it's pretty easy and I don't think the fact that it's illegal is detering anybody from doing drugs. Those that want it will do it either way.

Probably, I mean I know over 5 five who could get me some if I wanted for under 20$. But at least there would be no black market and less risk of spreading viruses through needle sharing and such.

[NikolaiI]

I wasn't comparing smoking a joint to drinking all day. I don't recall exactly how I compared them, except by saying that cannabis is a soft drug and alcohol is a hard drug, which is supported at least by the wiki article I cited.

Anyway, as I would compare them is like this, a joint (maybe) or just a puff of cannabis compared with a shot of alcohol. Take a hit from a very potent cannabis plant, and compare it with taking a shot of potent alcohol. The alcohol is harder, although high-potency cannabis also does a lot to you...

Anyway, X is right...how do you really know if all you've experienced of it is other people's descriptions- even if they are, at best, 'reliable' or 'scientific' sources...it's all so ridiculously subjective, let's not point that out to each other like the other is an idiot, however, and let's have a civil discussion about it.

Anyway, I have known people who have smoked pot all their lives and are not a little worse for the wear, except very slight short term memory loss. But they've made up for this with incredible lives...and I'm not saying it's for everyone but I am in agreement with Rastas that is a spiritual experience.


The government already makes it illegal, has done it it in the US for decades. It has the right to protect society. Cigarettes are legal because they are not mind altering. Alcohol would not be legal if we were all to start from scratch. But because we have had several millenium of alcohol use and so it has been incoporated into society. It is institutionalized. It is part of our culture.

See my response above. Does it make sense to institutionalize more harmful products? Government is trying to do its darndest to reduce cigarette and alcohol use. Legalizing more harmful products is counter to the general thrust.

Plus I saw what you said about the Atlantic Monthly article. I don't know if that's true. Last time I saw statistics, drug use was down in the US.

The argument for legalizing (all) drugs is that it will (hopefully) reduce crime and suffering.

I don't know, Virgil. I think marijuana should be decriminalized and then legalized, and I also think there is a growing majority who thinks the same. I don't know about government and government's rights, and all that, so I just don't know.


Cannabis was also known to the Assyrians, who discovered its psychoactive properties through the Aryans.[citation needed] Using it in some religious ceremonies, they called it qunubu or “the drug for sadness”. Cannabis was also introduced by the Aryans to the Scythians and Thracians/Dacians, whose shamans (the kapnobatai—“those who walk on smoke/clouds”) burned cannabis flowers to induce a state of trance. Members of the cult of Dionysus, believed to have originated in Thrace, are also thought to have inhaled cannabis smoke. In 2003, a leather basket filled with cannabis leaf fragments and seeds was found next to a 2,500- to 2,800-year-old mummified shaman in the northwestern Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region of China.[10][11]

(quote from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_%28drug%29)

ah, the shamans smoked it...

[genoveva]

Yes, legalize all drugs! People can learn to make good choices.

Fyi, marijuana can be addictive. There is a marijuana users anonymous.

Also, don't believe all that LSD propaganda. You will not have flashbacks- not even if you are pregnant!:lol:

[Shalot]

Yes, legalize all drugs! People can learn to make good choices.

Fyi, marijuana can be addictive. There is a marijuana users anonymous.

Also, don't believe all that LSD propaganda. You will not have flashbacks- not even if you are pregnant!:lol:


You said, marijuana can be addictive. I've read (on more than one occasion) that it isn't. But heroin, yes, is addictive. And if i had to gamble, I would much rather smoke a joint than do a hit of heroin (assuming that I expected to continue living my life in the same manner I live it now)

[genoveva]

Yes, legalize all drugs! People can learn to make good choices.

Fyi, marijuana can be addictive. There is a marijuana users anonymous.

Also, don't believe all that LSD propaganda. You will not have flashbacks- not even if you are pregnant!:lol:

[Shalot]

Yes, legalize all drugs! People can learn to make good choices.

Fyi, marijuana can be addictive. There is a marijuana users anonymous.

Also, don't believe all that LSD propaganda. You will not have flashbacks- not even if you are pregnant!:lol:
oh I see, you're one of those clever people. Took me a minute. Must be the drugs.

[genoveva]

You said, marijuana can be addictive. I've read (on more than one occasion) that it isn't.

I know people who have struggled with an addiction to marijuana. Some things you can just "read" about, but real life experiences are more insightful for this topic in my opinion.

That said, I still advocate for the legalization of all drugs.:thumbs_up

[jon1jt]

being miserable can be an addiction too. and let's not forget the millions of Americans popping anti-depressants to keep their heads on straight.

[NikolaiI]

I know people who have struggled with an addiction to marijuana. Some things you can just "read" about, but real life experiences are more insightful for this topic in my opinion.

That said, I still advocate for the legalization of all drugs.:thumbs_up

Right. There are, what, I seem to remember three different things that indicate addiction? I can recall withdrawal and tolerance as two of them. Anyhow marijuana is a big thumbs up on the tolerance, and I have heard people say it can have withdrawal.

I have a very unpopular idea of addiction though, I don't think any thing is addictive. I don't think cigarettes are addictive. I've smoked some, I smoke about one a week now, and I've never felt anything like addiction, even though for a while I smoked 5 a day. Even if my brain did get chemically wired to them, I still wouldn't really consider that addiction. Addiction is mainly in the realm of the mind, and it can be easily overcome...especially if you believe so!

Um, so for heroin or cocaine it might be different.. I dunno. I have never done heroin nor will I ever, but I've done cocaine a few times. I guess I can see that being addictive, with the dramatic highs.. I dunno.

For a while I said that marijuana was not physically addictive, eventually I had to concede the issue because of tolerance and psychological dependence, but I think the psychological dependence is very small, about as much as chocolate. But I absolutely don't want to undermine anyone struggling with it. I have a friend who says he's addicted, and needs it every day, so I wouldn't ever invalidate someone else's experience on the issue! :D :D

[jon1jt]

i say leave the choice to individuals. if they harm themselves while under the influence of drugs, such as crash their vehicle into a tree, that's their problem. it's when the freedom to do drugs interferes with the health and well being of others, as in the case one harms another under the influence. then the user must pay the penalty. very simple.

and if the penalty lacks a proper deterrence, then the penalty must be made more severe, until criminals get the picture society will not tolerate that sort of behavior.

if you want to do drugs, stay home and do them and be sure to eat many twinkies. :D


.

[Granny5]

i say leave the choice to individuals. if they harm themselves while under the influence of drugs, such as crash their vehicle into a tree, that's their problem. it's when the freedom to do drugs interferes with the health and well being of others, as in the case one drives under the influence and harms another. then pay the penalty. and if the penalty lacks a proper deterrence, then the penalty must be made more severe, until criminals get the picture society will not tolerate that sort of behavior in public.

if you want to do drugs, stay home and do them and eat many twinkies. :D


.

finally, we mostly agree on something!!:lol:
Except I don't think ALL drugs should be legal. Maybe mj at least for medical reasons (glacoma) and personal use but not hard drugs. But the twinkies sound good.

[Oniw17]

I think that all drugs should be legal, at least for a trial period to see if they will impose on utilitarian principles. Violent crimes related to alcohol went up durring America's prohibition, so logic dictates(going from the only existing evidence) that they should go down if you legalize cocaine, heroine, et al. I plan to try each of them before I die at least once regardless. Thirst for a variety of subjective experiences and all that. I also love smoking weed when I'm writing or hanging out with friends.

[jon1jt]

finally, we mostly agree on something!!:lol:
Except I don't think ALL drugs should be legal. Maybe mj at least for medical reasons (glacoma) and personal use but not hard drugs. But the twinkies sound good.


i don't see what the difference is whether it's pot or cocaine or crack. who cares?? yet it's legal for individuals to drink themselves to death! the brunt of the harm to users will be self-inflicted, and the system would deal swiftly with those who become reckless or harm others.

in the case that drugs were made legal, there would be an insignificant number of individuals added to the vast pool of existing junkies.

drugs are illegal for the same moronic reason government will never privatize the public education system: citizens might just discover that there is no boogieman, and they can do just fine without government getting in their business. :D

[crisaor]

I wasn't comparing smoking a joint to drinking all day.
Check my previous reply.


Anyway, X is right...how do you really know if all you've experienced of it is other people's descriptions- even if they are, at best, 'reliable' or 'scientific' sources...it's all so ridiculously subjective, let's not point that out to each other like the other is an idiot, however, and let's have a civil discussion about it.
Have you consumed any of the drugs we're talking about? Not that I care either way, but using your own standard you would've been involved in the same 'uncertainess' than I if you haven't.

I don't think this is ridiculously subjective, no. My own opinions on the matter are derived from the information I've read/seen since I was old to do so, coupled with my personal experiences. I'm not merely speaking on a whim here, and I assume you aren't either. We can agree to disagree, that's perfectly fine, but please don't call this a subjective matter, there are plenty of facts to choose from, even if some of them aren't conclusive.

I didn't call anybody an idiot. I pointed out what I perceived as an idiotic argument. Surely you can see the difference? And I've yet to see you or X sustain that argument with anything remotely solid.


Anyway, I have known people who have smoked pot all their lives and are not a little worse for the wear, except very slight short term memory loss. But they've made up for this with incredible lives...and I'm not saying it's for everyone but I am in agreement with Rastas that is a spiritual experience.
I know some people that very occasionally smoke pot and aren't at all worse for it. But then again, I know people who do it more regularly and you'd be hard-pressed to sustain a conversation with them for more than 60 seconds, among other things. I believe you can recover from a deep alcohol addiction, it's very difficult, but possible. I don't think the ones deep in marijuana can really recover.

[Oniw17]

Check my previous reply.


Have you consumed any of the drugs we're talking about? Not that I care either way, but using your own standard you would've been involved in the same 'uncertainess' than I if you haven't.

I don't think this is ridiculously subjective, no. My own opinions on the matter are derived from the information I've read/seen since I was old to do so, coupled with my personal experiences. I'm not merely speaking on a whim here, and I assume you aren't either. We can agree to disagree, that's perfectly fine, but please don't call this a subjective matter, there are plenty of facts to choose from, even if some of them aren't conclusive.

I didn't call anybody an idiot. I pointed out what I perceived as an idiotic argument. Surely you can see the difference? And I've yet to see you or X sustain that argument with anything remotely solid.


I know some people that very occasionally smoke pot and aren't at all worse for it. But then again, I know people who do it more regularly and you'd be hard-pressed to sustain a conversation with them for more than 60 seconds, among other things. I believe you can recover from a deep alcohol addiction, it's very difficult, but possible. I don't think the ones deep in marijuana can really recover.
You do relaise that weed causes your brain to make more neurons, right? It's like when you work out, you damage the muscle in order minipulate your body's natural reaction. I smoked weed poly-daily for more than a year and a half, and still do semi-regularly, but I can almost promise I would score higher than you on an IQ test(or any type of test, I'm fairly smart). You shouldn't buy into all the stereotypes about potheads, though I do know the people who you're talking about who can't hold a conversation; they're just idiots, with or without the weed.

[crisaor]

You do relaise that weed causes your brain to make more neurons, right? It's like when you work out, you damage the muscle in order minipulate your body's natural reaction. I smoked weed poly-daily for more than a year and a half, and still do semi-regularly, but I can almost promise I would score higher than you on an IQ test(or any type of test, I'm fairly smart). You shouldn't buy into all the stereotypes about potheads, though I do know the people who you're talking about who can't hold a conversation; they're just idiots, with or without the weed.
Are you for real? How in the hells can you 'almost promise' that you're smarter than me? And even worse, basing that claim on the fact that you've smoked pot many times.

Shame you only do it semi-regularly now, you could've been a major genius if you'd kept on going. :rolleyes:

Actually, given your post above, I think you've had one too many.

[motherhubbard]

You have to think about the difference in using pot and using other drugs. When someone is addicted to a drug, like Meth for example, it rules and destroys their lives and harms everyone around them. Pot is not addictive and you can just put it down. If you stay home you and are not stoned around your kids then who are you hurting? There are some harmful side effects to smoking pot, but there are also some good reasons like to ease the nausea after chemotherapy.

But, it is not just a personal choice- it is a social issue as well. People addicted to drugs will do anything to get their next fix, and I do mean anything. People who are recovered addicts are more ashamed of the things they were willing to do for dope than the addiction. We have to step up enforcement, not just because of illegal use, but theft and abuse and conduct laws are often violated. Meth Mouth cost tax payers millions of dollars. Children are neglected, endangered, and abused all for the sake of drugs. This creates another drain on tax payer’s dollars. I would have to say that making it legal would also make it acceptable to some extent and that it would be like opening Pandora’s Box.

When I imagine the kind of world I want my kids to live in, there are no drugs. Of course there are no Trans fats or artificial foods or pollution …

[Scheherazade]

R e m i n d e r

Please do not resort to inflammatory comments.

Such posts will be deleted with or without any further warning and lead to thread closure.


Here is a detailed article on addiction which appeared in 'TIME' magazine recently:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html

[Oniw17]

Are you for real? How in the hells can you 'almost promise' that you're smarter than me? And even worse, basing that claim on the fact that you've smoked pot many times. IQ doesn't necessarily equal intelligence. I'm in the 97th percentile(from the American Mensa test) though, which is why I said I'd probably score higher than you. Also, I wasn't basing it on th fact that I've smoked pot many times, simply noting that despite that fact, I'm smarter than the majority of people. I was referencing to what you said about stupid potheads and how people can never 'come back' from whatever alleged damage weed causes your brain.If you smoke, you increase your dopamine(a neural transmitter) levels which is going to increase the use of the neural pathways already in your brain. If you know anything about neurology, you know that you brain closes down neural pathways which aren't used, and strengthens those which are often used. What do you predict the effect of an increase in dopamine is then? It's really middle-school stuff. However, if you sit around and reapeat some inane task all day, those are the neural pathways that will be stregnthend by the increase.

Shame you only do it semi-regularly now, you could've been a major genius if you'd kept on going. :rolleyes:This comment comes from the fact that you misunderstood my original statement. I slowed down because it's bad for your lungs.

Actually, given your post above, I think you've had one too many. All things are possible I suppose.

[crisaor]

IQ doesn't necessarily equal intelligence. I'm in the 97th percentile(from the American Mensa test) though, which is why I said I'd probably score higher than you.
Which was relevant to the thread because...?


I was referencing to what you said about stupid potheads and how people can never 'come back' from whatever alleged damage weed causes your brain.
Well, assuming you haven't lost any of your mental faculties, there isn't anywhere to come back from, is there? On the other hand, I doubt the people I spoke of before can really return to full functionality.

And given that you happily compare brain cells to muscles, and even state that you can grow more brain cells out of marijuana, well, don't expect me to take you very seriously.

[Scheherazade]

This thread is taking an interesting turn.

If you really believe that some of the drugs mentioned in this thread help increase intellectual capacity, how is it different from athletes using doping? Isn't it a way of 'cheating' and, hence, immoral?

[Granny5]

This thread is taking an interesting turn.

If you really believe that some of the drugs mentioned in this thread help increase intellectual capacity, how is it different from athletes using doping? Isn't it a way of 'cheating' and, hence, immoral?

Scheherazade, I believe you make the most intelligent point that's been made on this thread so far.:thumbs_up
Thank you.

[Oniw17]

Which was relevant to the thread because...?I'm sorry, I guess it wasn't. I thought that you were implying that people who smoke weed were stupid. After re-reading your post, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Well, assuming you haven't lost any of your mental faculties, there isn't anywhere to come back from, is there?
No, hence the quotations.

On the other hand, I doubt the people I spoke of before can really return to full functionality.
There's people missing parts of their brains(I can't remember the exact details, I'm taking this information from an article I read a while ago) who can function perfectly fine. I'm sure that anything is possible. Also, alcohol is much more damaging to your brain than mj(I can get into that if you want, but I don't really feel like it).

And given that you happily compare brain cells to muscles, and even state that you can grow more brain cells out of marijuana, well, don't expect me to take you very seriously.
Brain cells and muscles are both part of your body, and your body reacts to strain by strengthening whatever is undergoing the strain. It's the same reason you get calluses, and the reason why bone hardening techniques work. It's also what drives evolution. You're specialised to adapt, that's not specific to any single type of cell.

This thread is taking an interesting turn.

If you really believe that some of the drugs mentioned in this thread help increase intellectual capacity, how is it different from athletes using doping? Isn't it a way of 'cheating' and, hence, immoral?
Dopamine doesn't increase intellectual capacity, it causes neural pathways to be used more often, even those which normally wouldn't be used. It makes your long-term memory 'stick' better, because it keeps your brain from closing those pathways. That's also the reason that weed cases people to get paranoid, because the pathways of the memories you subconsciously deem more serious are used more in general. Also, I'm a material atheist(actually morelike agnostic, I don't know for sure that there are dieties), nothing is immoral, with the exception of hurting someone I love.

[crisaor]

I'm sorry, I guess it wasn't. I thought that you were implying that people who smoke weed were stupid. After re-reading your post, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Agreed. Let's leave it at that, shall we?


There's people missing parts of their brains(I can't remember the exact details, I'm taking this information from an article I read a while ago) who can function perfectly fine. I'm sure that anything is possible.
I concur. Since it's believed we only use like 10% of our brain, who's to tell the other 90% isn't permanently ruined? I guess it could also be argued that since you aren't using that part, where's the harm in losing it, but there's no way to discern which areas of the brain are actually affected so it's too gray of an area. Plus you're still destroying your brain. :sick:


Brain cells and muscles are both part of your body, and your body reacts to strain by strengthening whatever is undergoing the strain.
My eyes are part of my body just like my biceps. The repetitive use of them has a different effect, however. Same with the heart, or the liver. Demanding straining efforts out of them makes them weaker, not stronger. Whacking my brain cells doesn't make them grow, it kills them.

[Oniw17]

My eyes are part of my body just like my biceps. The repetitive use of them has a different effect, however. Same with the heart, or the liver. Demanding straining efforts out of them makes them weaker, not stronger. Whacking my brain cells doesn't make them grow, it kills them.
Crap...my debate skills must be slipping. I could try to make my argument sound ok, but it would just be a red herring. So I guess I slipped up with a couple of statements, but my 3rd post in this thread(2nd post addressing you) is completely accurate.

[chasestalling]

I just think some things should be legal and other prohibited but by providing a supply (just testing it) the government could undercut the black market AND make a lot of money on the side :D

the government IS making money by legalizing certain substances while illegalizing others.

if the state of legalization/illegalization was reversed that means government as we know it is an anachronism.

[Riesa]

mmmmm, coffee.

[Scheherazade]

Scheherazade, I believe you make the most intelligent point that's been made on this thread so far.Yet once again you mean?

:p

[Nightshade]

I think that if drugs were legalized there may be an intial increase in usage but then go back to the same rate of usage as prior to legalization. I'm basing that premise on the fact that it isn't difficult to get drugs, in fact it's pretty easy and I don't think the fact that it's illegal is detering anybody from doing drugs. Those that want it will do it either way.
It isnt difficult at all is it I think most teens today know ways of getting their hands on them I mean I am one of he most shelterd and naive people out there and I know where to get hold of them who to talk, and Im not just talking bout since Ive come to the uk either it would have been alot harder back in Egypt but if I wanted to I could have got hold of some.


But at least there would be no black market and less risk of spreading viruses through needle sharing and such.

I dont think thats true though blackmarkets almost always exsist but with legalisation there would be less of a demand on the blackmarket and regulation and control would hopefully be easier.


But heres something did you know that suguar free squash contains asapartame (I think it is I know its something to do with the sweeterners my dad had a bit of a shock when he found out) that affects your brain? But more specifically your memory? And that is something we give freely to kids. I drink gallons of the stuff myself, no wonder I bare a resmblance to Forgetful Jones.

[NikolaiI]

criasor I don't really think marijuana wastes you in the way you think it does. Rastas for instance considered it a holy sacrament, and I do too. If you listen to much Reggae, a lot of them talk about it, and how Rastas before them suffered the brutality of their government because they would not give up their sacrament...one of them for instance talks about how a Rasta spent two years in jail...oh it's a very beautiful song. Yes it is.

[crisaor]

criasor I don't really think marijuana wastes you in the way you think it does. Rastas for instance considered it a holy sacrament, and I do too. If you listen to much Reggae, a lot of them talk about it, and how Rastas before them suffered the brutality of their government because they would not give up their sacrament...one of them for instance talks about how a Rasta spent two years in jail...oh it's a very beautiful song. Yes it is.
Yeah, well, I don't think there's the tiniest bit of holiness about it. I don't particularly like reggae, and more often than not, I found most of the songs in the genre to be very much alike (Bob Marley is the notable exception to this).

[Bakiryu]

Regga, Nikolai?! I wonder how can marihuana be holy. Something like Marihuanism?

[NikolaiI]

Rastafarianism...I need to learn more about it because it's one religion I consider myself a part of.

-Sorry, I meant to put the following post into this one.


Regga, Nikolai?! I wonder how can marihuana be holy. Something like Marihuanism?

There's another site I've been looking for for about ten minutes, laff, but cannot find...it talked about Marley, Haile Selassi, Rastafarianism, and Reggae's evolution. But this is something from the wiki article on "Rastafari movement."


For many Rastas, smoking cannabis (known as ganja, marijuana, herb, kali, or lamb's bread) is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study; they consider it a sacrament that cleans the body and mind, exalts the consciousness, facilitates peacefulness, and brings them closer to Jah. The burning of the herb is often said to be essential "for it will sting in the hearts of those that promote and perform evil and wrongs." Many believe that cannabis originated in Africa, and that it is a part of their African culture that they are reclaiming. It is sometimes also referred to as "the healing of the nation", a phraseology adapted from Revelation 22:2.

They are not surprised that it is illegal, seeing it as a powerful substance that opens people's minds to the truth — something the Babylon system, they reason, clearly does not want. They contrast their herb to liquor, which they feel makes people stupid, and is not a part of African culture. While there is a clear belief in the beneficial qualities of cannabis, it is not compulsory to use it, and there are Rastas who do not. Dreadlocked mystics, often ascetic, known as the sadhus, have smoked cannabis in India for centuries. According to many Rastas, the illegality of cannabis in many nations is evidence that the Persecution of Rastafari is a reality. The migration of many thousands of Indian Hindus to the Caribbean in the 20th century may have brought this culture to Jamaica.

They believe that the smoking of cannabis enjoys Biblical sanction and is an aid to meditation and religious observance.
Among Biblical verses Rastas believe justify the use of cannabis:

Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 3:18 "... thou shalt eat the herb of the field."
Proverbs 15:17 "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith."[1]
Psalms 104:14 "He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man."
According to Rastafarian and other scholars, the etymology of the word "cannabis" and similar terms in all the languages of the Near East may be traced to the Hebrew qaneh bosm קנה-בשם that is one of the herbs God commands Moses to include in his preparation of sacred anointing perfume in Exodus 30:23; the Hebrew term also appears in Isaiah 43:24; Jeremiah 6:20; Ezekiel 27:19; and Song of Songs 4:14. Deuterocanonical and canonical references to the patriarchs Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses "burning incense before the Lord" are also applied, and many Rastas today refer to cannabis by the term ishence — a slightly changed form of the English word "incense". It is also said that cannabis was the first plant to grow on King Solomon's grave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement#Ganja

and here is another wiki entry on the 'spiritual use of cannabis' where it's used in other religions besides Rastafarianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_use_of_cannabis

Just for anyone who's interested.

This is enlightening- from that second link.


Members of the Rastafari movement use cannabis as a part of their worshiping of God often called JAH, and Meditation. The movement was founded in the 1930's and while it is not known when Rastafarians first made cannabis into something sacred it is clear that by the late 1940s Rastafari was associated with cannabis smoking at the Pinnacle community of Leonard Howell. Rastafari see cannabis as a sacramental and deeply beneficial plant that is the Tree of Life mentioned in the Bible. Bob Marley, amongst many others, said, "the herb ganja is the healing of the nations." The use of cannabis, and particularly of large pipes called chalices, is an integral part of what Rastafari call "reasoning sessions" where members join together to discuss life according to the Rasta perspective. They see cannabis as having the capacity to allow the user to penetrate the truth of how things are much more clearly, as if the wool had been pulled from one's eyes. Thus the Rastafari come together to smoke cannabis in order to discuss the truth with each other, reasoning it all out little by little through many sessions. They see the use of this plant as bringing them closer to nature. In these ways Rastafari believe that cannabis brings the user closer to Jah, ie Selassie I, and pipes of cannabis are always dedicated to His Majesty before being smoked. While it is not necessary to use cannabis to be a Rastafari, some feel that they must use it regularly as a part of their faith. "The herb is the key to new understanding of the self, the universe, and God. It is the vehicle to cosmic consciousness" according to Rastafari philosophy, [10] and is considered to burn the corruption out of the human heart. Rubbing the ashes from smoked cannabis is also considered a healthy practice[11].


No, no, no, it's cantheism, Baki! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantheism Yeah, there we go.

[Shalot]

I know people who have struggled with an addiction to marijuana. Some things you can just "read" about, but real life experiences are more insightful for this topic in my opinion.

That said, I still advocate for the legalization of all drugs.:thumbs_up

These people that you speak of probably have addictive personalities. Marijuana is NOT addicitive in the same way that meth or heroin are addictive and that is a fact. :nod:

[Pensive]

As a personal choice, I am against smoking, drinking (alcohol) and yes, drugs. But whether it 'should be legalized' or 'not' is a huge argument I wouldn't like to get in. Perhaps what's unimportant for me is important for others.

[manolia]

Just a question. If we'd legalise drugs wouldn't it be more easy for young people to get them? What i mean is: i am sure that there are plenty of teenagers who are very curious about drugs. But the fact that they are illegal, and the fact that they must in fact "break the law" in order to get them, may put a barrier..By making it legal, don't we make it much easier for them? I don't know..

Second question. By using cannabi (marijuana) isn't it possible that you'll be induced to taste "harder" drugs like heroin which lead to certain death?

Third question.I have repeatedly heard, from medical people that cannabi and the like, destroy braincells. Is it true? Doesn't that make cannabi dangerous too?
So far i agree 100% with crisaor. I am against all kinds of drugs (even cannabi), but that's just me. I never even had the curiosity to see how it is like ;) .

[Demian]

I don't think it's a good idea to advocate drug use. But it is clear historically that both our attitudes and relationships with drugs change drastically due to the criminalization of drug use. When LSD was first synthesized by Sandoz Industries it was administered to psychiatrists for research purposes. Psychiatrists found that they had a remarkable cure rate for alcoholics who had been prescribed the drug--well over 70%. All of this research was swept under the rug when the 60's happened. Heroin is already legal, alebeit a prscription is needed (painkillers)
I think the enormous amount of money which is made on drugs have a lot to do with what stays legal and what does not. For instance, before the Vietnam war heroin was practically unheard of and cheap. The Golden Triangle dispersed heroin, opium and the like to all of these Asian countries and produced a greater amount of addicts there in the late 1800's and into the 20th. A large portion of soldiers returned home addicted to heroin. When they got back, the streets were flooded with heroin (by the CIA) and the amount charged for it was gradually increased until it's value went up a hundred fold.
If you look at the history of the narcotics flow you will see correlations like this everywhere.
In addition, the war on drugs in the United States has given us the largest prison population on the planet. A good deal of these people have not commited any other crime than possession. For those that are against legalization the question now becomes: Do I want to collect my social security or prop up an ever expanding prison populace with my tax dollars?

[papayahed]

Just a question. If we'd legalise drugs wouldn't it be more easy for young people to get them? What i mean is: i am sure that there are plenty of teenagers who are very curious about drugs. But the fact that they are illegal, and the fact that they must in fact "break the law" in order to get them, may put a barrier..By making it legal, don't we make it much easier for them? I don't know...

It so easy to get drugs as it is, it's just like walking in a store. Seriously if you want drugs you can get drugs. The best way to control kids from getting drugs is to legalize drugs and put an age limit on buying drugs, much like cigarettes and alcohol.

[manolia]

It so easy to get drugs as it is, it's just like walking in a store.

So true..but i have seen it happening you know. Many people i knew as a teenager, were curious enough to see how it is like to be stunned (is this the correct word??) but the fact that they were afraid of being caught in the act (of bying) actually stopped them..anyways, that is a very limited example, i know. Just based on people i know, and not the whole world.



The best way to control kids from getting drugs is to legalize drugs and put an age limit on buying drugs, much like cigarettes and alcohol.

Hmmm..age limits, i think, aren't going to help. Allow me to add, that there are many cigarette smoking-liquor drinking young people out there, unfortunately. Perhaps they ask someone older to buy or secure these stuff for them.

[Virgil]

So true..but i have seen it happening you know. Many people i knew as a teenager, were curious enough to see how it is like to be stunned (is this the correct word??) but the fact that they were afraid of being caught in the act (of bying) actually stopped them..anyways, that is a very limited example, i know. Just based on people i know, and not the whole world.



Yes, establishing a right and wrong to drug use, institutionalized by law, does lower the percentage of users. Once it becomes legal and the stigma is lowered you will see much more people using drugs. Just look at how many people smoke and drink now, becasue there is no stigma to it. When the harmful effects of smoking were not as well known and it was glorified in novels and movies, like those in the 1950's, I think it was close to half the US smoked. Now after a couple of decades of super effort to educate people on the harms of smoking, still over one third of the population smoke. If it were to be outlawed tomorrow, and yes a black market would exist, I bet smoking would go down to about 10% of the population, still a significant number but certainly less. The question is, what would be the increase of drug use if it were to become legal? It's not whether, but how much.

[manolia]

Yes, establishing a right and wrong to drug use, institutionalized by law, does lower the percentage of users. Once it becomes legal and the stigma is lowered you will see much more people using drugs. Just look at how many people smoke and drink now, becasue there is no stigma to it. When the harmful effects of smoking were not as well known and it was glorified in novels and movies, like those in the 1950's, I think it was close to half the US smoked. Now after a couple of decades of super effort to educate people on the harms of smoking, still over one third of the population smoke. If it were to be outlawed tomorrow, and yes a black market would exist, I bet smoking would go down to about 10% of the population, still a significant number but certainly less. The question is, what would be the increase of drug use if it were to become legal? It's not whether, but how much.

You said some pretty nice things there :thumbs_up
I too believe that the key word is "education". Although, i am for prohibiting drugs, i also believe that by doing just that and only that there won't be much of a change ;)
When i was a kid, there was this huge campaign in schools here, against drugs and smoking. It was a good effort ;) . I don't know if they still do things like that, though.

[NikolaiI]

Just a question. If we'd legalise drugs wouldn't it be more easy for young people to get them? What i mean is: i am sure that there are plenty of teenagers who are very curious about drugs. But the fact that they are illegal, and the fact that they must in fact "break the law" in order to get them, may put a barrier..By making it legal, don't we make it much easier for them? I don't know..

Second question. By using cannabi (marijuana) isn't it possible that you'll be induced to taste "harder" drugs like heroin which lead to certain death?

Third question.I have repeatedly heard, from medical people that cannabi and the like, destroy braincells. Is it true? Doesn't that make cannabi dangerous too?
So far i agree 100% with crisaor. I am against all kinds of drugs (even cannabi), but that's just me. I never even had the curiosity to see how it is like ;) .

No it does not kill braincells. As oni pointed out, it actually preserves them. It does slow your thinking down, while you are stoned, and after, up to a month or so, your reaction times, etc., but it does not waste your brain, like criasor says it does. Some stuff I saw on wikipedia indicated a lot of doctors say that it increases chances for mental illness, but this is very minimal. A lot of doctors also consider it to be a gateway drug, but this is a debate that has had a lot of effort put into both sides and is unresolved. I think some studies have shown that it is not, while others show that it is.

The fact is, cannabis is a soft drug compared to alcohol and nicotine which are hard drugs. Wikipedia supports this, and yes I know it is only a site supported by individuals, but it is based on the factors of addiction and overdosing, and to my mind also, the "wasting." I am directing some of this at criasor, because I strongly disagree with his position. One beer a day might not do anything, but three beers a day will considerably damage your liver and brain over the course of years. If you smoked until you got stoned once a week or once a month for the rest of your life, you would notice almost no change at all. If you smoked every day until you got stoned, by the time you're 50, you would likely have problems with short term memory and you might be a bit irritable.

Alcohol versus cannabis: prolonged use with alcohol destroys brain and liver, with cannabis it destroys short term memory. And short term use with alcohol makes you incoordinated, as well as gives you a feeling you can accomplish things when you really can't, like driving a car. Being stoned can also make it difficult to drive a vehicle, and very dangerous because of the reaction times, but it is not as bad as being drunk. So possibly cannabis should be legal but driving under its influence criminal? Just a thought.

Anyway, try and consider why these two drugs have the legal properties the way they are. One is a plant, that you grow and do not have to do anything to! The other is made from grain or grapes. I just...it's a plant that you smoke, like tobacco...I just don't see why it's seen so much like cocaine and heroin. It's just all the propoganda about it. Like Baki said, why is it legal to drink yourself out of your mind but not be able to get stoned?

A point of small interest: in Canada it was originally made illegal because it was the "black man's drug" and it was associated with black people. It was originally made illegal because of a single court case, and that spread...shouldn't we have what we, the people, want to be illegal and legal? And if I am not mistaken, most of the people who came on this thread said they thought it should be legal. Perhaps it should be a poll.

-Someone else said they thought the line was drawn where it should be. While I understand and possibly agree with arguments that all or most drugs should be legal, my biggest issue here is that the line is drawn not where it should be. One drug is over the line that is a soft drug, while a drug it is easy to overdose and become addicted to, and is soooo destructive (just ask AA and people who have died because of it.) is legal. Virgil?

[manolia]

What is a "gateway drug"?

[Granny5]

A gateway drug is a drug that can lead to other drugs. If one hears how bad cannabis is and tries it and realizes that it really isn't bad, then they might try other harder, truely dangerous drugs. It's really one reason that the government should be totally honest about information and research on cannabis. It isn't even allowed for medical reasons, glacoma, nationwide in the U.S.

[manolia]

A gateway drug is a drug that can lead to other drugs. If one hears how bad cannabis is and tries it and realizes that it really isn't bad, then they might try other harder, truely dangerous drugs. It's really one reason that the government should be totally honest about information and research on cannabis. It isn't even allowed for medical reasons, glacoma, nationwide in the U.S.

Oh thanks granny :)
That was on my mind when i asked one of my questions previously ;)
I believe cannabi is a gateway drug ;)

[Divine Comedy]

Not all Drugs should be legalised. Normally legalisation can be done after detecting the severity of effects of the drugs. If we legalise all the drugs even the most degenrative one it is not only that it would become legal and accesible for the people but with a knowledge of the effects it causes it would mean that we are exposing our children to take it as they would take pills for fever. At the mention of drugs am just reminded here of the movie "Basket ball diaries". This movie clearly potrays how drug addiction could lead to the lose of future. I believe that schools taking intiatives to bring to limelight the cons of drug addiction is a good step to fight the cause.

Whats degenerative to mankind would remain degenerative whether legalised or sold out in the black market.I still have a vivid memory of my friend who was a drug addict fighting to come out of the hands of drug addiction. He unfortunately died in the process of the fight.It does not necessarily mean that you are getting the stigma to use drugs to die by legalising it. You are inturn putting th edrug in a more accesible place and giving them rights to take it. In india we have a particular drug which is legalised called as "Bhang" which people here use especially when we celebrate the dawnof the spring. So if we could legalise only some drugs which are not so degerative it would be better rather than legalising all of them.

[crisaor]

No it does not kill braincells. As oni pointed out, it actually preserves them.
His arguments weren't really solid, you know (and neither is yours).


It does slow your thinking down, while you are stoned, and after, up to a month or so, your reaction times, etc., but it does not waste your brain, like criasor says it does.
For starters, "criasor" doesn't say anything. Since marijuana affects the nervous system, a lot of ill effects can derive from this, from memory loss issues to paranoia or even impotence. Brain damage can also be understood in this regard.


I am directing some of this at criasor, because I strongly disagree with his position. One beer a day might not do anything, but three beers a day will considerably damage your liver and brain over the course of years.
The same thing happens with marijuana, as I already stated. If your position is based on the fact that you want legalisation because you smoke it, it really isn't too convincing, and even less if your main cause for legalisation is that 'since alcohol is legal, marijuana should be legal'.

[NikolaiI]

crisaor, sorry for spelling your name wrong, and also for offending you.

[Virgil]

The same thing happens with marijuana, as I already stated. If your position is based on the fact that you want legalisation because you smoke it, it really isn't too convincing, and even less if your main cause for legalisation is that 'since alcohol is legal, marijuana should be legal'.

Very well said. I agree completely. Because society has made one mistake in legitamizing alcohol, it should make another? Huh???

[NikolaiI]

Very well said. I agree completely. Because society has made one mistake in legitamizing alcohol, it should make another? Huh???

But marijuana doesn't do the same things alcohol does to you! It impairs your ability, but doesn't make you think that you are capable of anything. I cannot for the life of me comprehend why anyone would think that marijuana is worse or even nearly as bad as alcohol if they have knowledge of both. Any help someone?

And what about the hard drug/soft drug point I tried to make that was ignored? :(

[crisaor]

crisaor, sorry for spelling your name wrong, and also for offending you.
That's okay. You didn't offend me. :)

[NikolaiI]

That's okay. You didn't offend me. :)

Glad to hear it. Anyway, as my other post said, that was one of my reasons. If you could give me some reasons why you think it is an invalid or not solid argument, that would be a little more substantive. Alcohol is addictive, destructive and you can overdose on it.

Drunk= all messed up, and you think you can do anything.

Stoned=all messed up.

Both should be illegal to drive...I am just saying the line should be drawn on one side or the other of the two, as they both are legal or illegal.

[manolia]

And what about the hard drug/soft drug point I tried to make that was ignored? :(

It wasn't ignored Nikolai. I just don't agree with you ;) . For me soft drugs are gateway drugs (see i have learned a new expression ;) :lol: ).
I personally know some people who begun with cannabi in highschool and are currently on heroin ;) . Sad story :(

[Lote-Tree]

Should drugs be legalised - yes.

Should we all use drugs - No.

Why not?

Drugs alters our perception of reality unlike alcohol which only slows our bodily and mental reaction times...

[Bakiryu]

Drugs alters our perception of reality unlike alcohol which only slows our bodily and mental reaction times...

I believe alcohol should be classified as a drug since it actually changes a person's behavior, sometimes with disastrous results.

[Lote-Tree]

I believe alcohol should be classified as a drug since it actually changes a person's behavior, sometimes with disastrous results.

Perhaps. But Alcohol does not make you change your perception so much that you can see everyone wearing a melon on their heads does it? :D

[Bakiryu]

Perhaps. But Alcohol does not make you change your perception so much that you can see everyone wearing a melon on their heads does it? :D

Nope :D

but you could go crazy and try to kill someone.

[Lote-Tree]

Nope :D

but you could go crazy and try to kill someone.

Not as crazy as someone who sees demons because of drugs?

[Bakiryu]

Not as crazy as someone who sees demons because of drugs?

But equally.

[NikolaiI]

Lote what do you consider aspirin as? I think alcohol is a depressant. But, it's also poison, right?

[Lote-Tree]

Lote what do you consider aspirin as?

A pain killer? But does not change your perception of reality does it?



I think alcohol is a depressant. But, it's also poison, right?

If you are sad and drink alcohol - it depresses you more.

If you are happy an drink alcoho - it elveates you...

Alcohol is a very good solvent. It dissolves away fats in blood vessels I believe...

[NikolaiI]

It can, but alcohol alters your perception a lot. It makes you think you are capable of anything, while it makes you less capable in fact.

[Lote-Tree]

It can, but alcohol alters your perception a lot. It makes you think you are capable of anything, while it makes you less capable in fact.

Alcohol slows down your motor responses. It does not bend your perception of the world...it can give you confidence but not change your perception that demons are haunting you :D

[NikolaiI]

But it does change your perception, dramatically. It makes your vision all distorted, being drunk is being heavily under the influence of a drug.

[Lote-Tree]

But it does change your perception, dramatically. It makes your vision all distorted, being drunk is being heavily under the influence of a drug.

Effects of alcohol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_alcohol_on_the_body

No where does it mention - seeing demons.

[the silent x]

it may all be dependent upon the person who is doing the drinking, possibly, lote may not experience the same thing as nikolai

[NikolaiI]

Yeah, but neither does aspirin or most drugs to my knowledge, yet they are considered drugs.

[the silent x]

aspirin is only when taken in doses more than prescribed on the side of the bottle. robocopping is only brought about when you down the entire bottle, not drink the amount you can when using the lid/amount measure recommended

[jon1jt]

Effects of alcohol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_alcohol_on_the_body

No where does it mention - seeing demons.


i saw Ronald McDonald one time when i was drunk. :D

[Demian]

An alcoholic that is in detox often does have hallucinations. A person who has blacked out will do a number of things that they have no memory of whatsoever. In this respect, alcohol can be more dangerous than a psychotropic drug when the user at least retains some perception and memory. This is one of the worst aspects of hard alcohol. Anything can happen after a large amount has been consumed, and that amount varies widely for every person.

[Bakiryu]

well said, demian.