Why Write Poetry?

[AuntShecky]

If a parent asks a child what she wants to be when she grows up,and she says "I want to be a poet!" the parent would probably die of grief.
Of course, except perhaps for 17th c. England, poets could never make a living by writing poetry. Not good ones, anyway!
So why write it?
First, there has been so much drivel trying to pass itself off
as "poetry" that who in her right mind would want to contribute to that ever-increasing pile of s. . tuff? There is much to be said for expressing oneself in writing as an escape valve, for "therapy," so to speak. But there is a big
difference between venting on paper and making the product public, in presenting it as a "poem."
On the other hand, when a writer has an idea that would fit in no other form except verse, he could try it.
When writing what one hopes would become a poem, the
artist's very first thought is to form. What kind of shapewill the poem take? How will I blend both form and content? If all I have is "content," I really don't have a poem; I have a piece of prose.
As Coleridge defined it: "Prose is good words in good order. Poetry is the BEST words in the BEST possible order."
And finally, it would be optimal if the piece one writes is "new," that never before has this thought or idea ever been presented exactly in this way. If I can't offer something original to the way we look at the world, why write it? As T.S. Eliot once said to a neophyte who had sent him work to critique. "I found your work to be good and original. Unfortunately, what is good is not original,
and what is original is not good."
Original AND good: this should be the goal of anyone who
attempts to write poetry.
Comment, if you please!

[DeathAngel]

it's a helpful way to express oneself,
some do it for the readers, other do it for themselves,
frankly i just do it,
it's also a big part of music production,
so there ya go;
and ya know what, the best thing is not to think about it to much when your writing, it's not the writers job to make it perfect,
but so it satifies them, art with words,
thinking about how many stanzas you needs/syllables, is a workout, too much to think about at one time,
go with the flow...simple as that...

[AuntShecky]

Yes, but you also have to think about the reader as well.

[TheFifthElement]

Personally I write poetry as a challenge because of the points you mentioned here:


Poetry is the BEST words in the BEST possible order

and here:


Original AND good: this should be the goal of anyone who
attempts to write poetry.

And I think I've got an awful long way to go, but I'm enjoying the challenge, stretching myself and trying to make myself better. I feel, sometimes, that people aren't prepared to critique but rather are more concerned with not causing offense, which then defeats the object if you're trying to make yourself a better poet.

I completely disagree with this comment:


it's not the writers job to make it perfect

If it's not the writer's job to make it perfect, who's is it? You can't aim to please everyone, that is impossible, but you should aim for the absolutely highest standard possible, or why bother?

[Bakiryu]

Well If i told my parents I want to be a writer I'll probably get killed. That's why i did the right thing and told them i wanted to be a journalist: see the difference?

If I even mentioned me wanting to be a poet my mum would commit harakiri.

That's why I have a pen name! :)

[ampoule]

In a way, this thread makes me want to give up. :(

[jon1jt]

because the knowledge that we're all going to die places an enormous burden on humans to leave their mark. we do such through procreative works, externalizing one's inner being in the hope of immortality.

in other words, we write poetry because we don't want to die. there's purpose in that.

[motherhubbard]

I write to please myself. I post it here and you can say it's crap, and it is mostly, but it pleased me and so I’m happy. Sometimes I post here for help and this is a good place to get it. I would never express some of the things I've posted in any other way and it was nice to get it off my chest.

I like to read what others post because it feels like a little glimpse of what is really inside of them. Some I think is amazing and some I think is not such good poetry, but I like to see what is on the inside of the person.

[kiz_paws]

Thank you Jon and M-H, for your beautiful answers. :thumbs_up

Why do I write poetry? Because I have to put to paper the stuff that is in my head. I aspire to write good things, but since I have a pair of clay feet, well, aesthetic beauty and perfection are certainly lacking a lot of the time. But I pride myself in my attempt, that is all that I can do. I love poetry and feel this burning desire to write it. Hope that this answers the question. :)

[rabid reader]

I think the reason to write poetry is because there is no reason to do it. I write stories and poetry for the sake of poetry and stories. Its more of a self-sustianment then a purpose.

[TheFifthElement]

I wonder, AuntShecky, on reading this thread, if the question needs to go a little further, and not just ask why we write poetry, but also why we feel such a desperate need to share it? I think Jon1jt's point above goes some way to explaining that.

Many people have said that they write poetry for themselves, which is no doubt true but isn't all of the answer - if it is just for yourself then why offer it to the public domain?

[firefangled]

There is a hiding in us all that rises like the heat from a desert of desire. Deep within there is a place for summer days we dreamed, when all the windows filled with white and nights were cold and long. And deeper still, a nameless we, loves beyond the heart, beyond love in return. It surfaces along our veins, not in a flowing, but a tow as if something of the world, wonderful and wild wants it so, and pulls it slow, until we cannot help but write. This is why we live in this mirage of flesh and bone, for these moments that are poems, whether caught in words or passing on to another hiding in another hidden world.

[PrinceMyshkin]

In a way, this thread makes me want to give up. :(

Don't you feaking dare! There will always be nay-sayers and party-poopers! Unfortunately, the number of those exceeds the number who create joy and beauty - of which you are one!

[CdnReader]

I write poetry because I want to write, and because it tends to come out in what most people would consider a poetic form. Occasionally, I work with a form; mostly I don't. My preferred form is free verse -- a paradox because it's really no form at all.

I write for myself. I agree with MotherHubbard: It helps me to tap into feelings and thoughts that I'm unable to express in any other way.

Why do we write for ourselves and post in a public forum? That's simple. We post one, and we receive a positive response. We discover that others enjoy reading the words we have written. The positive feedback encourages repeat behaviour. :)

I've said it here before, and I'll repeat it now: It is not my intention to write the next greatest poem of the century, nor even the best poem posted here today. I write for myself; I share it because there are others who tell me they find value in what I've written. I also come here to read what others have written. We all come here with different backgrounds, different experiences, different lifepaths. I learn from their words, and perhaps, just perhaps, they learn something from mine as well.

But, above all, I write and share my poetry here because it's a way to come closer to people, to make friends, and to belong to a community of like-minded people. The majority of us here are amateur poets who write and post because it feels good to do so, and because we enjoy each other's company in this little corner of the virtual world. No big secret in that.

"Good" poetry (who decides what is "good"?) contains many divergent elements that all come together in a pleasing manner. It's not just form, it's not just content, it's not just rhyme, it's all of these, it's one and not the others, it's none of them at all, and it's much much more. It's visual and it's powerful and it's emotive. It breathes and it has meaning. It's a method of creative communication that hopefully pleases both writer AND reader. In that respect, I think we're all successes here.

[PrinceMyshkin]

If a parent asks a child what she wants to be when she grows up,and she says "I want to be a poet!" the parent would probably die of grief.
Of course, except perhaps for 17th c. England, poets could never make a living by writing poetry. Not good ones, anyway!
So why write it?
First, there has been so much drivel trying to pass itself off
as "poetry" that who in her right mind would want to contribute to that ever-increasing pile of s. . tuff? There is much to be said for expressing oneself in writing as an escape valve, for "therapy," so to speak. But there is a big
difference between venting on paper and making the product public, in presenting it as a "poem."
On the other hand, when a writer has an idea that would fit in no other form except verse, he could try it.
When writing what one hopes would become a poem, the
artist's very first thought is to form. What kind of shapewill the poem take? How will I blend both form and content? If all I have is "content," I really don't have a poem; I have a piece of prose.
As Coleridge defined it: "Prose is good words in good order. Poetry is the BEST words in the BEST possible order."
And finally, it would be optimal if the piece one writes is "new," that never before has this thought or idea ever been presented exactly in this way. If I can't offer something original to the way we look at the world, why write it? As T.S. Eliot once said to a neophyte who had sent him work to critique. "I found your work to be good and original. Unfortunately, what is good is not original,
and what is original is not good."
Original AND good: this should be the goal of anyone who
attempts to write poetry.
Comment, if you please!

Well, you had many choices before writing and posting this. One of those was to pass judgement on those who are writing or attempting to write what they hope are poems.

Another choice was to write one of your own, so passionate and beautiful in content and so elegant in form that it serve as an example to others.

I can only wonder why you would choose the first of those?

People have been debating what is and isn't poetry since perhaps the first "poem" was written, when they might have better spent their time writing their hearts out!

[Granny5]

In a way, this thread makes me want to give up. :(

ampoule, I feel the same way. I'm not really good at writing, I just do it to please myself and so that maybe when I'm gone, my great great grandchildren will know something of me and my greats. I feel a little embarassed that my form isn't what it should be and that words aren't the best. These things are just what I have. I hoped that folks here would offer suggestions to improve. I don't call myself a POET. I just like to put down some of the words that are in my head.

[PrinceMyshkin]

ampoule, I feel the same way. I'm not really good at writing, I just do it to please myself and so that maybe when I'm gone, my great great grandchildren will know something of me and my greats. I feel a little embarassed that my form isn't what it should be and that words aren't the best. These things are just what I have. I hoped that folks here would offer suggestions to improve. I don't call myself a POET. I just like to put down some of the words that are in my head.

Give up? Give up what? Being the feeling, loving soul you are? Any time we define ourselves as a poet or a carpenter, a Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew, we speak only of a part of ourselves! I call you, above all, a dear friend!

[Granny5]

Give up? Give up what? Being the feeling, loving soul you are? Any time we define ourselves as a poet or a carpenter, a Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew, we speak only of a part of ourselves! I call you, above all, a dear friend!

Thank you Prince. For some reason, this whole thread has made me feel depressed. Maybe it's time to take a good look at myself and see what my limitations really are. But, I bet I get over it!

[Poppy]

Shecky et al;

I am not a poet, I don’t claim to be a poet, I will never have anything published and quite frankly I really don’t like much poetry. The things I write here are only life experiences, about people I have met, and the ones I love. I know nothing of rhyme, rhythm, meter, flow or timing. Unlike many here I don’t possess the skills necessary to please the critics, and most importantly I don’t care. Now with that being said, anyone has the right to post what they want as long as it follows this forums guidelines. You have a right to criticize or praise these posts. And those at the brunt of your criticism and praise can use it to improve their abilities or take what you say with a grain of salt. I choose the latter. Again I am not posting my “drivel” to please you. It will only please me and maybe a handful of others whether I have the right form or not. With that I then have accomplished what I had intended. Checking back it appears only a tenth of what you have written is your personal poetry. I read some and since I am not schooled in the proper techniques I don’t know if what you write is drivel or not. Above all what irritates me about this is that there are so many vulnerable people here that put their heart and soul into expressing themselves that when they read …”First, there has been so much drivel trying to pass itself off as "poetry" that who in her right mind would want to contribute to that ever-increasing pile of s. . tuff?” then I pity their psyche. My only thought is to encourage everyone to continue to contribute, to express themselves the best they know, to write what they feel, because no matter the “drivel” it will touch someone and they will be better for it.
~Poppy

[TheFifthElement]

Well, you had many choices before writing and posting this. One of those was to pass judgement on those who are writing or attempting to write what they hope are poems.

Another choice was to write one of your own, so passionate and beautiful in content and so elegant in form that it serve as an example to others.

I can only wonder why you would choose the first of those?



This seems a very critical response to what is a simple open question. What motivates us is surely as interesting and important as the results, is it not? The answers themselves show the nature of the many and varied reasons of why we do what we do, and thereby gives us a glimpse of the wonderous mystery that is human nature. I think that's worth putting my pen down for, for a moment. Don't you?

It's not personal or a criticism, as I see it - just a question, and a valid one at that.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Shecky et al;

I am not a poet, I don’t claim to be a poet, I will never have anything published and quite frankly I really don’t like much poetry.

You must be one heck of a nice guy even if from what I've read and heard you aren't much of a

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Fly-fisherman!

[motherhubbard]

I'll tell you what-

My dad IS one heck of a guy and people say that all the time, it's true.

I don't know about the fisherman part, though. I'm yet to see one fish. I know it's catch and release, but you could keep three or four and that would be enough for one meal at my house. I'll clean them if you'll bring them!

[Granny5]

I think maybe this has gotten out of hand. I'm sure that the question posed was valid...all questions are valid. (at least that's what I tell my associates at work!) Anyway, I am a little thin skinned especially about things I'm not real comfident about. But, being on LitNet and reading other's work has help me a lot as well as inspired me to keep trying. If someone doesn't like it, let me know what to do to improve. I'm very willing to learn, even at my advanced age. This old dog can learn new tricks. (I hope) It's such a good place. Let's keep enjoying the "drivel" and be a nice as possible to everyone here.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I'll tell you what-

My dad IS one heck of a guy and people say that all the time, it's true.

I don't know about the fisherman part, though. I'm yet to see one fish. I know it's catch and release, but you could keep three or four and that would be enough for one meal at my house. I'll clean them if you'll bring them!

There are the fish that we catch,
and the ones that we keep,
and the prize-winning ones
that we catch - in our sleep!

[Granny5]

There are the fish that we catch,
and the ones that we keep,
and the prize-winning ones
that we catch - in our sleep!

I think you have him down pat!! :lol:
It the fishing, not the catching that counts. (at least, that's what he
keeps telling me)

[Poppy]

It the fishing, not the catching that counts. (at least, that's what he
keeps telling me)


"For every day you fish, God grants you an extra day of life" ~ Anon


There are the fish that we catch,
and the ones that we keep,
and the prize-winning ones
that we catch - in our sleep!


....and that is why they call it fishing and not catching ~ Poppy ;)

[kiz_paws]

And totally off topic but yet on track:

You guys are fantastic, and the reason WHY I keep coming back! **HUGS**

So, on with the poetry! :thumbs_up

[AuntShecky]

Oh my lord, don't give up, Ampoule! This was merely
an ideal which all of us, yours truly included, should aspire to.

[firefangled]

A while back in another thread I posted the first draft (if I even knew that's what it was at the time) of a what is now a fairly long poem. I did so because someone, who no longer posts, had expressed that they threw all their poems away because they "sucked." I was trying to discouraged that act.

Skipping back many years: When I was a literature student in college, a locally recognized, published, icon of a poetry professor read one of my poems I had sent him for help and threw it back at me saying, this isn't poetry! Poetry has structure and devices and this and that......!

What I learned from him was:

1. What a good teacher is not
2. Not to listen to the negative for encouragement. (It is a common
occurrance in this forum to hear people be self critical. None of us need
to hear that on top of what we already do to ourselves.)
3. Don't ever, ever, give up something that you do for pleasure, or that you
want to learn more about. Both are the nobelest of reasons for doing it.
4. Don't ever throw anything away. What looks like trash now may look
quite different when a different you in 2 or 5 years looks at it again. We
change and out perception changes.
5. Referring to #4 there is something good about averything you write, even
if it is norok svitum flavit flavum secula seculorem. Only Shelley and
Rimbaud were born poets, the rest of us have to try over and over and
over. Hopefully you have fun doing it. Otherwise don't do it, but don't
ever stop because someone doesn't like what you did. If all artist did
that, where would art be today?

[AuntShecky]

I think you yourself produce some good work, firefangled.
(I think I posted a comment saying as much today after one of your poems.)
Wow. My original posting was a general statement, not an indictment of anyone's work in particular. But so many have taken it personally!
I think that what I was trying to say, in general, not as a
an ad hominum attack, that if you are going to "write poetry" we should aspire to do just that, not just
splash formless and free-floating feelings down and expect the results to be considered a work of art.
I DON'T mean YOU!
Are we or are we not allowed to consider anything posted on this forum as a "work in progress" and thus open to
constructive criticism?
Again, again, I don't mean you. Or anyone else in particular!
I like your works!

[PrinceMyshkin]

Only Shelley and
Rimbaud were born poets, the rest of us have to try over and over and
over.


What?

What?

What?

Methinks you are a few hanging chads short of ST Coleridge or Matthew Arnold or, for that matter, Stoker Abramowitz! Or has the name of William Butler Yeats not reached you there in darkest Florida?

Speaking of The Ineffable, on one of those speaking poets records, just after a recital of his poems by an actor, he is asked his opinion of the performance and replies in a sort of Stealth Death Ray voice:

"I wrrrote those as poyems. If I had meant them to be prrrose, I would have wrrritten them thot weay!"

[kiz_paws]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s122/kiz_paws/ROFLMAOnocaption150pxl.jpg
ROFLMAO!

[from farm1.static.flickr.com]

[firefangled]

What?

What?

What?

Methinks you are a few hanging chads short of ST Coleridge or Matthew Arnold or, for that matter, Stoker Abramowitz! Or has the name of William Butler Yeats not reached you there in darkest Florida?

Speaking of The Ineffable, on one of those speaking poets records, just after a recital of his poems by an actor, he is asked his opinion of the performance and replies in a sort of Stealth Death Ray voice:

"I wrrrote those as poyems. If I had meant them to be prrrose, I would have wrrritten them thot weay!"

It was a joke my card toting member of the W.B. Yeats fan club. Of course there are many others, but they were so young in their day I just picked them for the joke. Go pick on George Carlin, he says bugers and snot in public!!!


I think you yourself produce some good work, firefangled.
(I think I posted a comment saying as much today after one of your poems.)
Wow. My original posting was a general statement, not an indictment of anyone's work in particular. But so many have taken it personally!
I think that what I was trying to say, in general, not as a
an ad hominum attack, that if you are going to "write poetry" we should aspire to do just that, not just
splash formless and free-floating feelings down and expect the results to be considered a work of art.
I DON'T mean YOU!
Are we or are we not allowed to consider anything posted on this forum as a "work in progress" and thus open to
constructive criticism?
Again, again, I don't mean you. Or anyone else in particular!
I like your works!

Auntie, I did not think you were singling anyone out in particular. I just do not like to hear those who in my opinion should write even more than they do because they write beautifully.

I think some who post their poems consider them finished (I do mine most of the time) and the ones who do not usually ask for suggestions. Personnaly I am very reticent to suggest how I would change someone else's poem, but I have done it a couple times. My reasons are because the poet might want that discovery for her or himself. The other reason is I am not an expert; I have so much to learn and everyone here has helped me immensely.

The help I get from seeing the thoughts and feelings and experience of others is why I am here. I write poems because it makes me feel good and it especially makes me feel good to show them mine if they show me theirs...:yawnb:

It feels good to get kudos and to give them. None of us succeed all the time in creating a moving poem, but for the most part I have been so moved at one time or another by everyone here.

William Stafford used to recommend that we try and write a poem a day about something. Robert Bly has carried the encouragement of that exercise
forward. What a stimulus this forum is for that!! And that is how we all grow in doing this, whether we want to be W.B. Yeats, T.S. Eliot, or Robert Frost or just who we are it's still a great place to work it on out.

Damn, I am long-winded....SOMEBODY STOP ME! Jerry, where are you? Stick a kreploch in my mouth!!!

[PrinceMyshkin]

My original posting was a general statement, not an indictment of anyone's work in particular. But so many have taken it personally!
I think that what I was trying to say, in general, not as a
an ad hominum attack, that if you are going to "write poetry" we should aspire to do just that, not just
splash formless and free-floating feelings down and expect the results to be considered a work of art.

As one who did respond vehemently to your original post, I would suggest that things like

[QUOTE]First, there has been so much drivel trying to pass itself off
as "poetry" that who in her right mind would want to contribute to that ever-increasing pile of s. . tuff? There is much to be said for expressing oneself in writing as an escape valve, for "therapy," so to speak. But there is a big difference between venting on paper and making the product public, in presenting it as a "poem."[QUOTE]

are likely to have an ad hominem effect and are far from useful constructive criticism.

[Scheherazade]

I would like to think that the OP of this thread was a genuine inquiry into
why people prefer writing poetry and how it should be done.

We all have the right to choose which threads to participate and which ones to ignore on this Forum -
let those be personal poetry threads or other discussions.

Please feel free to exercise that right anytime you see fit.

[AuntShecky]

Thank you all for responding to my original post. I think I was just trying to start a discussion, perhaps spark a little fire, as someone had earlier posted a thread stating that the Literature Network was "boring."
Au contraire!
Thanks again.
Your Auntie
PS Please do offer all the criticism -- both positive and negative -- you unload upon the works of yours truly, such
as my latest effort, "Miles and 'Trane."

[Granny5]

Thank you all for responding to my original post. I think I was just trying to start a discussion, perhaps spark a little fire, as someone had earlier posted a thread stating that the Literature Network was "boring."
Au contraire!
Thanks again.
Your Auntie
PS Please do offer all the criticism -- both positive and negative -- you unload upon the works of yours truly, such
as my latest effort, "Miles and 'Trane."

Auntie, no one can call your thread boring!!:lol:
I think we all have settled down enough to have a
real discussion about why we write now. At least
my skin has thickened a little.:blush:

[TheFifthElement]

Personnaly I am very reticent to suggest how I would change someone else's poem, but I have done it a couple times. My reasons are because the poet might want that discovery for her or himself. The other reason is I am not an expert; I have so much to learn and everyone here has helped me immensely.

I understand why you might think this firefangled, but then by holding back comments you could be denying the poet the chance to change something which is good, into something which is amazing. I always feel I benefit from other people's suggestions, whether I choose to use them or not, because I feel it helps me see my poem in a different light. It is easy to be blind to the faults our own creation, much as parents can be blinded to the faults of their own children, but not saying anything doesn't stop the flaws from being there. I hope that you will continue to read and give honest feedback on any poems which I post, as I consider you to be an excellent poet (and therefore an expert), and I would always get benefit from any criticism you would give.


I would always encourage people to criticise my poetry, I'd much, much prefer that to having the thread die uncommented (which happens to quite a number of poets around here). It worries me that someone as prolofic and as giving to others as Pendragon, yesterday posted a thread wherein he had to ask for comments in the title of this thread, and still only a couple of people have actually responded.

Considering the rather violent reaction to this thread, which I always considered to be an honest question and not an attack on any person posting poetry on Litnet, I would now be quite reluctant to post any form of suggestions on anyone's poem unless I was completely confident that they wouldn't take it personally, or they invited it.

[kiz_paws]

...I would now be quite reluctant to post any form of suggestions on anyone's poem unless I was completely confident that they wouldn't take it personally, or they invited it.
Those that want criticism usually ask "what do you think", or something like that (well, I've seen it a few times).

But those who just post their work, I usually take as a viewing, much like art in a gallery -- I'd not go to a gallery with my paint and paint Dali's sky purple, as I thought it should be.... (to cite one silly example).

Anyhow, them's my two cents worth.

(and if someone really had a great poem but just lacked a little something, maybe one could PM that person with their idea? That way, fragile feelings are spared?) Just another idea -- poets often can be fragile (unless we are discussing Irving Layton, but don't go there!) :)

[TheFifthElement]

poets often can be fragile (unless we are discussing Irving Layton, but don't go there!) :)

True, poets are fragile just like everyone else. I suppose I question how fragile you can be about your work if you're prepared to put it under the public glare on a site that is accessible to everyone with an internet connection, and an appetite for poetry. In my experience no one has ever been brutal here, but then I wonder now if the brutality is just quiet and lies in the absence of comments?

[Pendragon]

I started writing poetry long ago as a way to let my imagination have an outlet. I've used it as therapy, as a songwriter, and simply for the joy of it. There is no higher praise than to have someone tell me they want to keep one of my poems, or to see it come out in a magazine, or hear the comments people make on this forum. We were poets isn't something bad to tell our kids, they are proud of my poems. Be proud to be a poet.

Pen

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/AbsalomKane/Smilies/HandyPanda.gif

[jon1jt]

I understand why you might think this firefangled, but then by holding back comments you could be denying the poet the chance to change something which is good, into something which is amazing. I always feel I benefit from other people's suggestions, whether I choose to use them or not, because I feel it helps me see my poem in a different light. It is easy to be blind to the faults our own creation, much as parents can be blinded to the faults of their own children, but not saying anything doesn't stop the flaws from being there. I hope that you will continue to read and give honest feedback on any poems which I post, as I consider you to be an excellent poet (and therefore an expert), and I would always get benefit from any criticism you would give.


I would always encourage people to criticise my poetry, I'd much, much prefer that to having the thread die uncommented (which happens to quite a number of poets around here).

Considering the rather violent reaction to this thread, which I always considered to be an honest question and not an attack on any person posting poetry on Litnet, I would now be quite reluctant to post any form of suggestions on anyone's poem unless I was completely confident that they wouldn't take it personally, or they invited it.

there are poets who, like yourself, love the feedback, and others who like to be tickled under the chin. to tie this to the thread topic, perhaps this is the "only" reason some write poetry, they like the tickling.

[Granny5]

I alway welcome suggestions. I do not consider myself in the same class of most of the poets who post some beautiful poetry here. And suggestions from them will be greatly appreciated. But, to criticize without offering suggestions for improvement is something I do take offense to. Why be negative without offering something that will help others to improve. It's just negative to me and somewhat arrogant, in my humble opinion. But I may get my feelings hurt and my panties in a wad, but I always get over such drivel pretty quickly.

[ampoule]

Kiz Paws! I love your fav you tube. Thank you so much for sharing it. I just started reading March by Geraldine Brooks and listening to this was like a soundtrack. I would add the crying smilie but it is just too silly for the way I am feeling.

jon1jt....I'm afraid I could not stand for any chin tickling. I would indeed run for the hills.


As for offering suggestions, it never occurred to me to request them because most of those old things, the ones I credit to The Pathetic Years, were used as correspondence and every word, every nuance, everything was chosen with great care. Believe me, every time someone says they like one of my poems I am in total shock. However, I will admit I enjoy the strokes (just not on my chinny chin chin). My goal is to rework most of them because I do enjoy writing for the reader, any reader. I love the catharsis but my innards are working much better these days.

One thing I would like to see though or maybe that is not see??? is when someone posts one of their poems, please leave it in its original 'state' and repost the correction. It helps me much more if I can compare both.

[kiz_paws]

perhaps this is the "only" reason some write poetry, they like the tickling.
What a sweet way of saying it, lol.

I write poetry because I like mingling with like-thinkers, and it is fun to be in the ranks of such talented people like you guys. I can learn from all of you and am greatful to be here. BUT, yeah, I guess I am one of those sensitive poets. Nice to hash our thoughts out here, mind you.

[blp]

Didn't WB had a little trouble doing anything he was happy with until The Lake Isle of Innisfree?

Given how long there's been poetry, it seems to be something people need or at least deeply desire.

You could argue simply that none of us are born poets since none of us are even born with language, yet once we acquire language, we seem to be stuck with it, like an extra skin you try on and find you can never take off. Then it gets pressed into all sorts of awkward service, constructing identities, prosecuting suits, selling soap powder, manipulating, belittling and boring people into submission and generally making them tense, as if the skin is suddenly in control of the rest of us and disconcertingly hyperactive. Some people seem to be adept with it, some maladroit, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a grain of discomfort in most people's language use, given that there is always some slippage between the language we use and who we are and anything we want to describe.

So poetry might be an attempt to come to peaceful terms with this situation, to turn language to the service of beauty, voiding it of pedantry, turning its potential for confusion and ambiguity into a source of pleasure rather than anxiety and playing, at the very least, with the possibility that the relationships we can discover through language give us access to real meaning.

That's for starters. But I might even hazard that, from an emotional point of view, poetry is language being used correctly. Psychoanalysts, especially those with a linguistic bias such as my Lacanian analyst, encourage patients to use language as it comes, not to do the often mundane jobs we define for it. I've found that in relaxing control, results come, almost as if from somewhere else - except that they're more me than the things I thought I was supposed to say, more what's in my head trying to get out. This, in fact, contradicts what I said before. I began by suggesting that we were, as a great old Fall album title has it, Perverted by Language. But maybe we pervert it.

On the other hand, Claus Oldenburg, describing the happenings he participated in in the sixties said, 'there was always a moment when someone would say "but is it art?" This was always the moment when I left the room.'

[TheFifthElement]

I alway welcome suggestions. I do not consider myself in the same class of most of the poets who post some beautiful poetry here.

Granny5, you're poetry is as good as anyone's on here, and you should be confident in that. Not everyone is going to like your poetry, because it's impossible to appeal to everybody's taste, but that doesn't mean it's not good poetry.


And suggestions from them will be greatly appreciated. But, to criticize without offering suggestions for improvement is something I do take offense to. Why be negative without offering something that will help others to improve. It's just negative to me and somewhat arrogant, in my humble opinion. But I may get my feelings hurt and my panties in a wad, but I always get over such drivel pretty quickly.

I agree Granny5 - criticism should always be constructive, not destructive.

[AuntShecky]

I like your reasoned response, blp. Poetry is language play in which we take it and stretch it as far as we can in an attempt to express the inexpressible. (That's why there is no place for cliches.) The speaker in Eliot's Four Quartets talks of "a raid on the inarticulate."
The only dissenting comment I have is that ambiguity can be an extremely useful device, in art in general and in poetry in particular. (Of course, you've read Empson's Seven Types of Ambiguity, or parts of it.)
Auntie

[blp]

Yeah, I agree though. What I was trying to say is that ambiguity creates confusion and anxiety in everyday life, but in poetry (and, yes, in art in general), it becomes a virtue.

[white camellia]

"Man is born with a mind in tranquility, which comes only innately. The mind stirs upon perceiving the world, which is innately driven by desires. The poet, perceiving the world, visualizes his thoughts by means of words."

[AuntShecky]

I can't get over how acute the posters are on this network.
(If Groucho were still around, he'd probably say, "You're
kinda cute yourself!")
Anyway, blp, you've got it down when you say that ambiguity in poetry is a "virtue." It is prevalent in all forms of modern and contemporary art. And the following
ditty is for you:

Ambiguity
(for blp)

There’s no such thing as black and white
Always more than one possibility
No hard and fast rules to love or fight
Ambiguity

Life is like a turtle
Sliding between earth and sea
Love’s a fish sometimes and sometimes fowl
Ambiguity

Shadows stay behind the glare of day
There’s truth in the light and more on the side
So many nuances and shades of gray
Nothing’s ever cut and dried

Can’t put in terms of black and white
Can’t put a finger on the words “you and me”
We’re alike but different as day and night
Ambiguity

Aunt Shecky
All rights reserved.

[blp]

Thanks! AuntShecky, I think, surely, you should write an intellectual musical.

Who's the quote from, white camellia?

[white camellia]

Thanks! AuntShecky, I think, surely, you should write an intellectual musical.

Who's the quote from, white camellia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Xi
He argued that there is a central harmony that is not static, empty but dynamic, and that the Great Ultimate is in constant movement.
He believed that the Great Ultimate was a rational principle, and he discussed it as an intelligent and ordering will behind the universe.

[AuntShecky]

[QUOTE=blp;434894]Thanks! AuntShecky, I think, surely, you should write an intellectual musical.

An intellectual musical? That must be like a slapstick version of La Traviata.

But I take it as a compliment, blp. Thanks.

Actually, the American musical comedies are better than the so-called serious ones. I'll take A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum or The Producers or Guys and Dolls over Miss Saigon or Phantom of the Opera any day, wouldn't you?
Step aside, Sondheim! Shecky's hittin' B'way!
Thanks again,blp. You're wonderful.

[kiz_paws]

Kiz Paws! I love your fav you tube. Thank you so much for sharing it. I just started reading March by Geraldine Brooks and listening to this was like a soundtrack. I would add the crying smilie but it is just too silly for the way I am feeling.
Ampoule, I am sorry that I totally missed this.

Thanks for taking the time to view that YouTube, the piano piece was so pretty in the background of the entry, quite moving, yeah. I thought I'd share it. :)

But back on the theme of this thread, Why Write Poetry? Well, sometimes I am travelling along in my life's stream and a sudden phrase will come to mind, and I feel I have to jot it down, and word by word, a poem is constructed. Great fun. :)

[blp]

Actually, the American musical comedies are better than the so-called serious ones. I'll take A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum or The Producers or Guys and Dolls over Miss Saigon or Phantom of the Opera any day, wouldn't you?
Step aside, Sondheim! Shecky's hittin' B'way!


Yeah, I totally agree. Not quite sure Phantom etc. even qualify as intellectual. I was thinking more something in the style of the older ones, Cole Porter especially, with songs referring to like, intertextuality or the death of the author. Or ambiguity, for instance.

[AuntShecky]

I adore Cole Porter, blp! Unlike many of the other songwriters of that part of the 20th century, he wrote his
own words instead of employing a lyricist.
Don't you love his use of internal rhyme?

Auntie

[blp]

Don't you love his use of internal rhyme?


See, somehow, you being a Porter fan doesn't surprise me.

Urm...internal rhyme - can't think of an example off the top of my head. Anything you'd particularly like to quote? :brow:

Oh, wait,

If we'd thought a bit bout the end of it
When we started painting the town
We'd have been aware that our love affair
Was too hot not to cool down

So bye bye dear and amen
Here's hoping we'll meet now and then
It was great fun, but it was just one of those things

Yup, internal rhymes by the dozen.

[Divine Comedy]

I like John Keats. As he rightly said "If poetry came spontaneously it better didnt come". There is a joy in being a poet and offcourse when I told the same to my mom about becoming a poet she freaked out... I wanted to write and just write but she thought its kinda crazy. So what else could you do with a creative mind rather think on new terms and do something useful out of the thinking. So I became a biotechnologist:( Still I write and I write as it is my passion... John Keats was apprenticed to a physician and then became a poet I aspired to be a poet and then became a researcher... I think am living John Keats life backwards as we have some similarities...Just that physician in his case and researcher in mine... :D

[blp]

I like John Keats. As he rightly said "If poetry came spontaneously it better didnt come".

I would have agreed with this until I really started to write poetry. Actually, the whole process came sort of spontaneously. I was just writing something one day and it seemed obvious suddenly that I should use line breaks. Up to that point I believed doggedly in the dogged graft of editing one's own work, but with poetry, I often found I couldn't. Attempts to improve matters often made them much much worse. You just have to take these things as they come I think.