Winston's involvement in the "Brotherhood"

[FlyGuy45]

Hello, just gotta question I hope you guys can help!

I understand that Winston hated the party, tried to join the Brotherhood, ended up dieing, and all that blah, but, the thing that was bothering me is I cannot remember a certain part in the book, and I have no clue where it is, or if it exists(I know a bit ironic, ha). My question is, was Winston known to be a "party-pooper" before he did? I think I remember reading something that said they knew Winston was an anti-party 7 years ago when he first saw that picture with the three men in New York, or something about them stalking him. Is this true, if not when did they know Winston was anti-party. I do not think that they found this out when he was in the room above Mr.Charrington, or when he met with O'Brien. I think that the party knew way before Winston became involved(Or thought about Rebellion). I think they *saw* it in him. Is it true that the party was stalking him for 7 years? Thanks very much for your help!

Sorry for the double post, but this thread: http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23609
Is what I'm kinda intimating at, but more in depth. Sorry for not searching, but this is kinda a screwy question.

[David40]

I understand that Winston hated the party, tried to join the Brotherhood, ended up dieing, and all that blah, but, the thing that was bothering me is I cannot remember a certain part in the book, and I have no clue where it is, or if it exists(I know a bit ironic, ha). My question is, was Winston known to be a "party-pooper" before he did? I think I remember reading something that said they knew Winston was an anti-party 7 years ago when he first saw that picture with the three men in New York, or something about them stalking him...

O'Brien has clearly had his eye on Winston for a long time but to understand fully where Winston fits into all this, I think we need to know where O'Brien's loyalties actually lie, and O'Brien is just so enigmatic in that regard. Perhaps O'Brien is solely a Party man looking to entrap folks like Winston. Perhaps O'Brien is a double agent who is connected with a real Brotherhood but who turned Winston over to the Party because Winston behaved in ways unsatisfactory to the Brotherhood. Perhaps O'Brien was once legitimately working for the Brotherhood and now is forced, under threat of being tortured himself, to feign Brotherhood membership to entrap people like Winston. Perhaps, unbeknownst to either Winston or Julia, the Party and O'Brien allowed their affair for awhile so they could film it, using the hidden telescreen in Charrington's room, to sell as cheap porn to the proles.

To really understand what the Party's designs on Winston have been, I think we need to fully understand O'Brien's character and O'Brien is so enigmatic as to defy understanding.

One thing that strikes me as curious, though: Julia has had a number of affairs with Party members before. We can assume she and her prior partners have never been caught before, however, because the torture she endures after her affair with Winston induces a permanent physical and psychological change that she has obviously never undergone before Winston. What is it about her affair with Winston that is different from her affairs with former lovers that caused her to be caught and punished this time, whereas with the former lovers BB seems to have turned a blind eye (we can probably assume BB knew)?

[The Atheist]

What is it about her affair with Winston that is different from her affairs with former lovers that caused her to be caught and punished this time, whereas with the former lovers BB seems to have turned a blind eye (we can probably assume BB knew)?

I don't think there was a blind eye turned towards earlier indiscretions, more that because what Julia and her partners were doing wouldn't have attracted the Party's radar as long as she kept to the rules she had followed. It was due to Winston's inability to cover his tracks that he and Julia were caught.