Drug Problem!

[Wizard272002]

Drug Problem

THE OTHER DAY, SOMEONE AT A STORE IN OUR TOWN READ THAT A METHAMPHETAMINE LAB HAD BEEN FOUND IN AN OLD FARMHOUSE IN THE ADJOINING COUNTY.

HE ASKED ME A RHETORICAL QUESTION, "WHY DIDN'T WE HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP?"

I REPLIED THAT I DID HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM WHEN I WAS YOUNG:

I WAS DRUG TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY MORNING.

I WAS DRUG TO CHURCH FOR WEDDINGS AND FUNERALS.

I WAS DRUG TO FAMILY REUNIONS AND COMMUNITY SOCIALS NO MATTER THE WEATHER.

I WAS DRUG BY MY EARS WHEN I WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO ADULTS.

I WAS DRUG TO THE WOODSHED WHEN I DISOBEYED MY PARENTS, TOLD A LIE, BROUGHT HOME A BAD REPORT CARD, DID NOT SPEAK WITH RESPECT, SPOKE ILL OF THE TEACHER OR THE PREACHER, OR IF I DIDN'T PUT FORTH MY BEST EFFORT IN EVERYTHING THAT WAS ASKED TO DO.

I WAS DRUG TO THE KITCHEN SINK TO HAVE MY MOUTH WASHED OUT WITH SOAP IF I UTTERED A PROFANITY.

I WAS DRUG OUT TO PULL WEEDS IN MOM'S GARDEN AND FLOWER BEDS AND COCKLEBURS OUT OF DAD'S FIELDS.

I WAS DRUG TO THE HOMES OF FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS TO HELP SOME POOR SOUL WHO HAD NO ONE TO MOW THE YARD, REPAIR THE CLOTHESLINE,OR CHOP SOME FIREWOOD.

AND IF MY MOTHER HAD EVER KNOWN THAT I TOOK A SINGLE DIME AS A TIP FOR THIS KINDNESS, SHE WOULD HAVE DRUG ME BACK TO THE WOODSHED.

THOSE DRUGS ARE STILL IN MY VEINS, AND THEY AFFECT MY BEHAVIOR IN EVERYTHING I DO, SAY, AND THINK.

THEY ARE STRONGER THAN COCAINE, CRACK, OR HEROIN; AND IF TODAY'S CHILDREN HAD THIS KIND OF DRUG PROBLEM , AMERICA WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE.

GOD BLESS THE PARENTS WHO DRUGGED US!

[Koa]

long live English grammar...at least the way i understand it...

[stephofthenight]

no! dont give them any ideals *covers parents eyes* lol unfortuanly ive found out on more then one ocasion that joy dishwashing liquid may smell like amazing lemons, but it doesnt taste like them:) and i no verry well the bend oveer and grab your ankles of the woodshed, only its the living room floor

[Shalot]

no! dont give them any ideals *covers parents eyes* lol unfortuanly ive found out on more then one ocasion that joy dishwashing liquid may smell like amazing lemons, but it doesnt taste like them:) and i no verry well the bend oveer and grab your ankles of the woodshed, only its the living room floor

that sounds BAD. I hope they didn't ask you to squeal like a pig

[stephofthenight]

lol not in that way.

[genoveva]

You're not condoning spanking, are you?:sick:

[stephofthenight]

yes i am...it HURT
but if i ever have kids i will probably spank them as well lol.
my parents said it was becasue they loved me
my veiw point...love me less
as long as it isnt me getting spanked im all for it...when its me i condone it
:)

[Wizard272002]

You're not condoning spanking, are you?:sick:

Spanking your child is not against the law. Abusing them is. And spanking is not abusing

[barbara0207]

Please, steph and wizard, don't spank your children, if you should ever have any!

Spanking is abuse!

I have raised two children without spanking them, and they have grown into loveable, loving, successful adults. There is absolutely no reason for spanking a child. If you show your child from the very beginning that you love them and that you are serious about your values and beliefs and live them, then spanking will not be necessary. Violence creates violence. But be firm and consistent, so that your children know what is right and what is wrong. Of course a non-violent upbringing takes a bit more thought and effort, but it's worth it. Spanking is the easy, thoughtless way out.

I can understand in a way that you want to justify what your parents did. Children often do, even later, when they are grown-ups. They do not want to have suffered all the pain in vain, and they mostly love their parents and cannot understand that these people should have been wrong. Others just don't see why they should have suffered if they can't make someone suffer, too.

I appeal to you - don't torture your children. They don't deserve it!

[Mortis Anarchy]

This lady came into the store I work at...she was soooo wasted. Sorry, Drugs...

My mom said she spanked me once, and she felt so bad...she still feels bad. I wouldn't spank my kid...I don't like getting hit, so why would I hit them? Not that I get hit.

This poor boy, his mom kept flicking his head and his ears because he was talking...I felt so bad for him. It hurts when you get flicked on the ears...and I could hear it when she flicked him hard on his head.:(

[stephofthenight]

spanking realy doesnt hurt your child, or it doesnt have to. i see no harm in a pop on the butt, when they are misbehaving. more then anything it hurts there feelings. i also firmly belive that a taste of joy dishwashing liquid will cure a child of telling lies. i do not belive in slapping your child tho. but a tap on the butt sends a good firm message.

maybe my parents where just strict.
but i got spanked, and grounded and if momma had to spank me when daddy got home he would for us making mom spank us, and if a teacher had to, our butts where mud. i have never acted out in school, im an "a" student and im the 3rd in my class. im the first freshman to go to nationals in debate from hallsville.

i see these kids disrespecting there parents, and i want to slap them. i have a respect for my parents and i couldnt dream of acting the way some of these brats do. yes i have a curfew, no im not allowed to go on a date by myself until im 16, yeah i have to keep my perment a yeear insted of 6months, no i dont have a cell phone. but my parents always know where i am, and they do that becuase they CARE. honestly if more parents would take time to be a PARENT then we would have less people in jail.

one last thing
IF YOUR GONNA SPRED YOUR LEGS, BE PREPARED IF YOUR PERGNAT TO BE A PARENT, BEING A PARENT MEANS THAT YOUR NOT ALWAYS YOUR KIDS BEST FRIEND BUT YOU DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM, AND THERE FUTURE.

sorry for being blunt. but if my child(if i can have them) ever does something major to get into trouble i will take a belt to there bottom as my parents did me. simple fact/ spanking is not abuse. trust me i know the diffrence between wearing bruises from abuse, and from being red for a few min from a well deserved spanking. i normaly got a spanking about once a year, and it was most likely from acting up in church, or just refusing to do what they asked, honestly my last spanking was forever ago. grounding is a better solution once your kids are like 9 and up...but other then that there is nothing realy to make them regret what the did. maybe im just a pain addict, maybe im just defencive to my parents. or maybe im just not a spoild brat too stupid and stuck up to see what my parents did for me.
steph

[rabid reader]

My dad was a pysco, scream his head off at me if I didnt have my socks on. He used to spank me over nothing and then there was some stupid stuff he did was a I was younger that he did in fits of anger over my sarcasim. But all in all he was a real dick

[stephofthenight]

RR i understand what your saying, i grew up like that too, but child services scared the hell out of him and hes straitend up a lot here latley he still has problms with anger, and i alwayse seem to be in the way but i understand it. or at least i say i do. i throw myself into my school work.

[Pensive]

Please, steph and wizard, don't spank your children, if you should ever have any!

Spanking is abuse!

I have raised two children without spanking them, and they have grown into loveable, loving, successful adults. There is absolutely no reason for spanking a child. If you show your child from the very beginning that you love them and that you are serious about your values and beliefs and live them, then spanking will not be necessary. Violence creates violence. But be firm and consistent, so that your children know what is right and what is wrong. Of course a non-violent upbringing takes a bit more thought and effort, but it's worth it. Spanking is the easy, thoughtless way out.

I can understand in a way that you want to justify what your parents did. Children often do, even later, when they are grown-ups. They do not want to have suffered all the pain in vain, and they mostly love their parents and cannot understand that these people should have been wrong. Others just don't see why they should have suffered if they can't make someone suffer, too.

I appeal to you - don't torture your children. They don't deserve it!

I agree with you, Barbara. Spanking is the easy way out, and for sometimes it looks like it has worked but it can create bigger problems, can produce hatred in the hearts of children. I am quite against spanking!

I know someone whose father once beat the hell out of him (he must be about fifteen or sixteen then) for getting not very good marks (and hey, he did not fail), and from that time, that boy had been using a huge veil in front of his father. The boy had even refused to show his face to his father and I never in my whole stay at that house caught him talking to his father at all! I think he was quite normal in other ways but this part of wearing the veil really looked strange and hmmm well not too normal. But once I got to hear the story, it seemed understandable. Sometimes even in front of other people he didn't show his face.

I hope he has changed now. I remember the tears in his mother's eyes when she told this all. Just one moment destroyed the relationships in her house. See how just one beating changed him. There have been other examples in front of me too. Of course we can't be sure that children of people who love them and treat them with leniency would turn out to be loveable and normal but it seems to me that it's a better way. Always a better choice.

[Shurtugal]

my dear friend i disagree, there is a fine line between spanking and beating a child. smacking them on there rear a couple of good times to stop there bad behavior is far different from beat the child, giving him bruises, burning him, and such. and it's also the intentions behind the spank. if a parent just shouts at the kid to stop then spanks them, not exsplaining what she did wrong, then yes it might breed anger isues. but if the parent tells the child to stop, explains why he's getting a spanking (nicely and not shouting or anything like that), spanking them, and then after ward truthfully telling them that they love them. most likely they wont end up having anger problems. and don't forget about the life style that childs raised up in, that will take a toll, too.

i agree with steph, to many kids are disrespecting there parents. like just the other month, me and my dad were at the store and there was this girl and her mom in front of us. i don't know what they were talking about but all of a sudden they girl (about 16 or so) said, "damn, mom, shut up!" i was flabbergasted! no child should speak to there parent like that (or any one really). and the worst part was the mom didn't do anything about it. nothing. no correction, no look of warning, infact, she looked as if her daughter did that often.-argetlam

[Pensive]

my dear friend i disagree, there is a fine line between spanking and beating a child. smacking them on there rear a couple of good times to stop there bad behavior is far different from beat the child, giving him bruises, burning him, and such. and it's also the intentions behind the spank. if a parent just shouts at the kid to stop then spanks them, not exsplaining what she did wrong, then yes it might breed anger isues. but if the parent tells the child to stop, explains why he's getting a spanking (nicely and not shouting or anything like that), spanking them, and then after ward truthfully telling them that they love them. most likely they wont end up having anger problems. and don't forget about the life style that childs raised up in, that will take a toll, too.-argetlam

Okay then I am against beating, and the kind of spanking stephofthenight and rabidreader received. I mean come on what's the use of using your hands because a child is not wearing socks/shoes. Just because you have force doesn't allow you to use it on those who don't have it.

[stephofthenight]

ok our household system when i was a kid

1 warning and why i shoudnt continue that behavior
2 im gonna spank you if you dont stop
3 go get the belt and sit it on the couch if you do it again
4. a spanking and when i calmed down my mommy would hug me and tell me exactly why she did that, and that she didnt do it becuase she ws mad at me and its was becasue she loved me and cared enough about me.

spanking is NOT the easy way out...
letting your child do whatever
or just saying no and not enforcing it is the easy way out...

ok what do you do when your kid misbehaves, you say no, they do it again, you ground them, they do it again? do you just give up. no that raises ignorants.

and i feel bad for those that are abused trust me, i know the terrors that can bring. but there is a diffrence if you leave bruises on a child u should be hung, now if you pop them on the butt, your being a parent.
i guess its upbringing. my parents parents took horse whips to there behind, my parents take belts to mine. so choose not to spank your kid, but even my little sister when we go to town or something together, i have spanked her butt in front of god and everybody because she wouldnt stop crawling under church pues after i had told her to stop 4 times i took her outside popped her butt twice and sent her right back in, it didnt hurt her, it was the matter of embarsment. if you embarss me ill embaress you type thing. as far as grades go if i dont have an a every point beliow a 91 is a lick. thats just how it is in my life. maybe you say there abusive well i will tell u like i told that stupid counciler ive known abuse, when i cried no one came, when i was actualy being hurt no one cared, now when im being loved you want to say no. it idiots like that that are ruining america. america was founded on god, and way back in the day they got spankings, even abraham lincon got a spanking i bet, and look here our county is great becasue of them, abuse i say not. now hitler never once got a spanking, becuase his mother didnt care, so as you call it "abuse" might have saved 3million people there life. just my veiw point


Okay then I am against beating, and the kind of spanking stephofthenight and rabidreader received. I mean come on what's the use of using your hands because a child is not wearing socks/shoes. Just because you have force doesn't allow you to use it on those who don't have it.

umm well the one time i got a spanking for this was after i had been told about 9 times to put on my shoes, and then my dad had helped me well i screamed no took them off and thru them. i deserved it.

[Shurtugal]

i know what abuse is too. (not that i have been, of course) and basically steph family "spanking rules" are about the same as mine. abuse is a terrible thing. there is no running around it. but evan a little red butt ain't abuse. now if our parents ever did it every day, enjoyed it, and did it for no reason. then, yes, that's abuse. i've had belts on my rear. (which quite frankly doesn't hurt unless you tense up and kick and scream like i usto when i was like 8 or so.) but after i cooled off i was fine. no bruises, no hate isuies. and i plan on spanking my kids (if i have any) for that is the way i think is best to disaplin a child. my parents love me, there no question. almost all my friends are spanked. and the ones that aren't are already taking the wrong path. the thinking that what wrong is right, and what's right is wrong. not to much of a degree. but it is becomeing visable. it's sad knowing no matter how hard you try, unless they are really convicted, they'll end up going down that path in the end. quickly or with some hesitation.

[barbara0207]

Caring means bringing up a child with love, giving direction, telling them what's right or wrong - without spanking. It's unnecessary - if you know about the multiple other ways of teaching a child how to behave. But if parents and children do not know any better - well, that's sad. I'm shocked that so many of you are or have been spanked.

Spanking is against the law over here and I think in Britain, too. And I have hardly any problems with my students at school. Of course there are good-for-nothings around here, too. Sometimes it's because their parents don't care what they do, don't give them enough of their love and time. Or parents feel helpless because they do not know how to deal with a child. (BTW, that does not mean that they don't spank them, even if it's unlawful.) So one thing has got nothing whatsoever to do with the other.

All those of you who are spanked and intend to do so with their own children: Please visit parenting classes. There you will be shown ways how to bring up a child without physical violence.

[Pensive]

i agree with steph, to many kids are disrespecting there parents. like just the other month, me and my dad were at the store and there was this girl and her mom in front of us. i don't know what they were talking about but all of a sudden they girl (about 16 or so) said, "damn, mom, shut up!" i was flabbergasted! no child should speak to there parent like that (or any one really). and the worst part was the mom didn't do anything about it. nothing. no correction, no look of warning, infact, she looked as if her daughter did that often.-argetlam

But how is it related to spanking? Are you trying to say this girl wouldn't have spoken in front of her mother if she would have been spanked? Or are you trying to suggest her mother should have slapped her butt on the very place because she spoke in that way?

And anyway, you don't know about what that mother said which made the girl say such a thing. I personally don't like the sound of 'shut up' but I think at places I have spoken in front of my parents and have disagreed with them though mostly I believe on compromises, and in a few places I have been right in that. This doesn't mean I don't love my parents. Perhaps what her mother said was truly offensive. Disagreeing with your parents on a matter doesn't mean unloving them or not caring for them. Sometimes even parents can be wrong, though usually their chances of being correct are more because of more experience.


spanking is NOT the easy way out...
letting your child do whatever
or just saying no and not enforcing it is the easy way out...

Not spanking doesn't mean you are letting your child do whatever she/he wants to do.

And we are not talking about whether we should say 'no' to our children. It's about hitting, spanking and abusing them.



ok what do you do when your kid misbehaves, you say no, they do it again, you ground them, they do it again? do you just give up. no that raises ignorants.

Do anything but spanking. And what makes you think that spanking would turn them into something tame? You and Shurtugal mentioned about first spanking them and then telling them you love them, but do you really think it's any good? If telling them you loved them was that much helping then why spank them?

And hey, don't take me wrong. I agree parents do care for their children (except very very very few exceptions) but it's not necessary the way the adopt for taking care of their children is better than any other way out there.


and i feel bad for those that are abused trust me, i know the terrors that can bring. but there is a diffrence if you leave bruises on a child u should be hung, now if you pop them on the butt, your being a parent.
i guess its upbringing. my parents parents took horse whips to there behind, my parents take belts to mine. so choose not to spank your kid, but even my little sister when we go to town or something together, i have spanked her butt in front of god and everybody because she wouldnt stop crawling under church pues after i had told her to stop 4 times i took her outside popped her butt twice and sent her right back in, it didnt hurt her, it was the matter of embarsment. if you embarss me ill embaress you type thing. as far as grades go if i dont have an a every point beliow a 91 is a lick. thats just how it is in my life. maybe you say there abusive well i will tell u like i told that stupid counciler ive known abuse, when i cried no one came, when i was actualy being hurt no one cared, now when im being loved you want to say no. it idiots like that that are ruining america. america was founded on god, and way back in the day they got spankings, even abraham lincon got a spanking i bet, and look here our county is great becasue of them, abuse i say not. now hitler never once got a spanking, becuase his mother didnt care, so as you call it "abuse" might have saved 3million people there life. just my veiw point

Spanking your children doesn't necessarily mean you care for them or not spanking them doesn't mean you don't care for them.


i know what abuse is too. (not that i have been, of course) and basically steph family "spanking rules" are about the same as mine. abuse is a terrible thing. there is no running around it. but evan a little red butt ain't abuse. now if our parents ever did it every day, enjoyed it, and did it for no reason. then, yes, that's abuse. i've had belts on my rear. (which quite frankly doesn't hurt unless you tense up and kick and scream like i usto when i was like 8 or so.) but after i cooled off i was fine. no bruises, no hate isuies. and i plan on spanking my kids (if i have any) for that is the way i think is best to disaplin a child.

If it doesn't hurt, then why do children scream, feel pain and get scared? If it doesn't hurt, then why does it make children want to end their lives? If it doesn't hurt then why do children want to run from their homes?

And if it doesn't scare children or hurt them or do anything to them, then why do parents think it's a good way to adopt to tame their children?

I think having belts at the age of eight is hmmm not a nice thing really. And I am against it whatever you call it - spanking, hitting, abusing or anything.

Sorry, got very emotional but I hope you would understand that I didn't mean to insult someone here personally, just meant to make myself clear.

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Hmmm...Looks like I'm very fortunate to have grown up without knowing my father.

[rabid reader]

and just so we are clear, parents beating the snot outta their kids is not a drug prevention program. I mean Opium anyone? Then the 60s-70s, my parents generation. The 80s were so high they dressed in retro... you seen retro? that is a very trippy clothing style. Then in th 90s we had grunge rock, anger mushroom highs for everyone. This decade we seem to be the ecstasy generation, and lets face it, a drug that drives people toward passionate love making is merely tomatoes compared to what my parents were doing.

[Shurtugal]

returning to pensives questions.

i know you didn't mean it personally. you aren't that kind of person. oh, and i should of made it clear, when i said belt to my rear, it didn't always mean that. only a couple of times, and i was useing that turm mostly in slang. i'll start with your first question.

if it doesn't hurt then why do children sream, feel pain, and get scared?

answer: most children over react, trust me i'm one of 'em, there are these boys (there both around 8) and i they get to round up, i grab there arm and tell them to stop. (politly, not harshly gripping just firmly) when i let go they start crying and saying that i've hurt them. or when someone they don't care for pushs them a little they start saying that they punched them and go tell. and it does hurt... but not to the point of aginising pain. the ruff turm of a spanking on the rear is just as painful as when you hit your hand to hard giving your buddy a high five. not excrutiating pain, but it gives the message.

... then why does it make children want to end there lives... run from there home?

answer: i actually have no answer for i have never heard of children running away from home because they were spanked. there was probably something more. i don't know 'cuase i have never heard of it.

describe scared. is it as when you walk up behind a person and say "BOO!" or is it how you feel when your life is at sate? and as i have mentioned it abouve, it does hurt a little.

and i personally believe that spanking is so far off from hitting or abusing.


But how is it related to spanking? Are you trying to say this girl wouldn't have spoken in front of her mother if she would have been spanked? Or are you trying to suggest her mother should have slapped her butt on the very place because she spoke in that way?

And anyway, you don't know about what that mother said which made the girl say such a thing. I personally don't like the sound of 'shut up' but I think at places I have spoken in front of my parents and have disagreed with them though mostly I believe on compromises, and in a few places I have been right in that. This doesn't mean I don't love my parents. Perhaps what her mother said was truly offensive. Disagreeing with your parents on a matter doesn't mean unloving them or not caring for them. Sometimes even parents can be wrong, though usually their chances of being correct are more because of more experience.


ok, i shouldn't of brung that up, i was getting off to disrespecting. i don't know how she was raised. you are right. i don't know if that was evan her real mom and maybe she has anger isues. oh, i know disagree with your parents isn't wrong, neccesially. but that doesn't give me that right to disrespect them.

and concerning slapping her butt, no, not at all. she's sixteen and is to old for that. i'm not evan spanked just because i'm older.

[Poppy]

This decade we seem to be the ecstasy generation, and lets face it, a drug that drives people toward passionate love making is merely tomatoes compared to what my parents were doing.

Whoa, ever hear of Methamphetamine? Its the scourge of the culture today.
I deal with parents each day who abuse this devil drug. These children of meth addicted adults have so many issues it's criminal.

[stephofthenight]

If it doesn't hurt, then why do children scream, feel pain and get scared? If it doesn't hurt, then why does it make children want to end their lives? If it doesn't hurt then why do children want to run from their homes?

And if it doesn't scare children or hurt them or do anything to them, then why do parents think it's a good way to adopt to tame their children?


becasue some parents are idiots!!!

spanking and beating are diffrent!!!

spanking doesnt hurt, beating them leaving them hurt is abuse.

children run from home for lots of reason
~abuse verbal or physical
~neglect
~ignorance the list goes on

but unless you have been thrown into walls, and thru windows, speak not of abuse as if you understand.
when you have been abused, you can understand the diffrence but i guess some people just dont understand the terrors of true abuse therforth they call harmless things abuse.

and children need to be prepared to forgive there parents for everything that goes on, as parents need to be preparedtoforgive therechildren for everything that goes on...just as i have forgiven my abuser and we are ok now

[Shurtugal]

um... off the wall here, steph, what do you mean you forgive your abuser, where you abused?

[stephofthenight]

this thred is getting kinda personal, we should get back on topic

[Shurtugal]

aye, your right and i'm sorry for asking if it affended you. i was putting my nose where it shouldn't of been. forgive me.

[Pensive]

returning to pensives questions.

i know you didn't mean it personally. you aren't that kind of person. oh, and i should of made it clear, when i said belt to my rear, it didn't always mean that. only a couple of times, and i was useing that turm mostly in slang. i'll start with your first question.

if it doesn't hurt then why do children sream, feel pain, and get scared?

answer: most children over react, trust me i'm one of 'em, there are these boys (there both around 8) and i they get to round up, i grab there arm and tell them to stop. (politly, not harshly gripping just firmly) when i let go they start crying and saying that i've hurt them. or when someone they don't care for pushs them a little they start saying that they punched them and go tell. and it does hurt... but not to the point of aginising pain. the ruff turm of a spanking on the rear is just as painful as when you hit your hand to hard giving your buddy a high five. not excrutiating pain, but it gives the message.

... then why does it make children want to end there lives... run from there home?

answer: i actually have no answer for i have never heard of children running away from home because they were spanked. there was probably something more. i don't know 'cuase i have never heard of it.

describe scared. is it as when you walk up behind a person and say "BOO!" or is it how you feel when your life is at sate? and as i have mentioned it abouve, it does hurt a little.

and i personally believe that spanking is so far off from hitting or abusing.

Where did I mention spanking is the synonym of hitting or abusing? All three are different things though first two can be included in the third one. Spanking a child doesn't, my friend, disclude the possibility of severe spanking. Even using cane on children is spanking. It can be severe, and it can be the other way around.


My question: And if it doesn't scare children or hurt them or do anything to them, then why do parents think it's a good way to adopt to tame their children?

Steph's answer: becasue some parents are idiots!!!

Now, it seems you also agree that it is idiotic but why the hell do you want to adopt this idiotic thing to tame your own children? I find this quite un-understandable!


spanking and beating are diffrent!!!

Spanking is an act of physical violence (especially if done harshly), and so it can be included in beating but yes, wordly speaking, both are different.


spanking doesnt hurt, beating them leaving them hurt is abuse.

Again if you think spanking doesn't hurt and neither does it show any love, so why do you think it's any good or what makes you decide you would use this way for your children? (On the other hand, personally I think spanking can hurt a lot!)


children run from home for lots of reason
~abuse verbal or physical
~neglect
~ignorance the list goes on

And I am against all these reasons but what I meant running from home was that they try to prefer other places or confide in other people because of the fear of spanking.

Children, especially little ones are fragile no matter how strong or obstinate they look, I don't think trying to enforce fear of any sort of physical violence is a good way even if it's spanking. Spanking can make physical violence acceptable in children's mind and they have chances of using it on their fellows in school or even when they grow up. Okay, let's take example of Sara. Sara's parents used to spank her on disobedience or stealing jam from Mama's fridge and especially swear-words. A girl in Sara's class uses a swear-word for a Holy book and Sara moves towards her to fight with her and if can catch her, then spank that class-fellow of hers. And don't tell me children don't often copy the ways they see around.

And spanking is not the only way to tame children. Why not use better ways, loving ways (or even punishments which haven't got something to do with hitting, spanking or abusing), for your children? Why spank them?


but unless you have been thrown into walls, and thru windows, speak not of abuse as if you understand.
when you have been abused, you can understand the diffrence but i guess some people just dont understand the terrors of true abuse therforth they call harmless things abuse.

Just because abuse or something crueler than spanking exists, doesn't make spanking the right thing to do.



and children need to be prepared to forgive there parents for everything that goes on, as parents need to be preparedtoforgive therechildren for everything that goes on...just as i have forgiven my abuser and we are ok now

I don't know what to say about this. A child who has been truly abused (like you mention that it's very terrorful) by parents would certainly find a hard thing to do...

[EAP]

Amerikkkkkka

*rawr*

[Logos]

aye, your right and i'm sorry for asking if it affended you. i was putting my nose where it shouldn't of been. forgive me.
IMO, you don't need to apologise :) stephofthenight has shared some personal stuff that I'm sure most here would react to in the same way; I think you asked a reasonable question that any concerned person might, especially given the rest of the posts here and the overall seriousness of the discussion.

General Mod Note to All: if you choose to participate in this topic, please remember that it is obviously an emotionally charged topic. Even though it seems the OP might have been posted as a 'joke'--a 'play on words' (the word 'drug')--it has become very personal to most people. I think it is good that a number of different opinions are being expressed, as long as nobody is being 'attacked' for theirs, but please remember that others might not agree with you, as is their right :)

Oh, and just for everybody's info, since this had become a hot topic, spanking is not entirely outlawed in the United States (http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp#ndakota) or Canada (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20040201/spanking_law040130?s_name=&no_ads=).

I don't know about other countries.

[stephofthenight]

aye, your right and i'm sorry for asking if it affended you. i was putting my nose where it shouldn't of been. forgive me.

its fine, i just didnt want this thred to turn into my life story; and i hate when people say that there sorry about it, because it doesnt change it, what happend happend, but to answer your question i was, and logos im sorry about the confusion, and i agree this is an emotional thred, i just hope yall understand i didnt want this to become about me.
steph

[Bakiryu]

I've never thought there was anything wrong with spanking. Abuse is a different topic but spanking is perfectly normal!

[Granny5]

Not spanking can do as much harm as spanking. I'm not for beating or mistreating a child, but teaching a child that there are consequences to
any actions, and some of the consequences are not pleasant, just as some actions are not pleasant, is a parent's job. Spankings should be used to guide a child, much like a shephard used his staff to guide his heard. Sheep were too valuable to abuse, so are children.

[Pensive]

Not spanking can do as much harm as spanking. I'm not for beating or mistreating a child, but teaching a child that there are consequences to
any actions, and some of the consequences are not pleasant, just as some actions are not pleasant, is a parent's job. Spankings should be used to guide a child, much like a shephard used his staff to guide his heard. Sheep were too valuable to abuse, so are children.

Children are not sheep. And anyway, shephards would keep on using their staff for sheep/goats even when they grow up. You can't do this in the case of a child. Shephards can lock up their sheep while parents can't put up their children away from the world (or if they do, the results are again not so good). Shephards 'own' their sheep. Sheep are even sold!

[Shurtugal]

I've never thought there was anything wrong with spanking. Abuse is a different topic but spanking is perfectly normal!

go baki!

sorry couldn't help it.

and if i am understanding granny right, i think she's using that as a figure of speech. just as when you say to someone that their eyes or like dimonds, they really aren't. and pensive are you a parent, just wondering, for if you aren't shouldn't you take more ear to someone who has grandchildren? you can also think as children as puppys. (for one comes more attached to them and are pets more then livestock. infact, most consider there dog as family) when you first get yor puppy, you leave it in a gated aera until it is pottytrained. you don't let it go off the leash until you know it wont run off on you. you give it treats when they are good, but when they are bad tell them that and punish them. the older the dog gets the more freedom they have, but when they are first puppys you won't let that be or in the end you'll cause more pain to the dog.

[EAP]

spanking is perfectly normal!

genocide was perfectly normal.
Pillaging was perfectly normal.
Torture was perfectly normal.
Rape was perfectly normal.


You need to choose your arguements more carefully.

[Pensive]

go baki!

sorry couldn't help it.

and if i am understanding granny right, i think she's using that as a figure of speech. just as when you say to someone that their eyes or like dimonds, they really aren't. and pensive are you a parent, just wondering, for if you aren't shouldn't you take more ear to someone who has grandchildren? you can also think as children as puppys. (for one comes more attached to them and are pets more then livestock. infact, most consider there dog as family) when you first get yor puppy, you leave it in a gated aera until it is pottytrained. you don't let it go off the leash until you know it wont run off on you. you give it treats when they are good, but when they are bad tell them that and punish them. the older the dog gets the more freedom they have, but when they are first puppys you won't let that be or in the end you'll cause more pain to the dog.

Look here:


Caring means bringing up a child with love, giving direction, telling them what's right or wrong - without spanking. It's unnecessary - if you know about the multiple other ways of teaching a child how to behave. But if parents and children do not know any better - well, that's sad. I'm shocked that so many of you are or have been spanked.

Spanking is against the law over here and I think in Britain, too. And I have hardly any problems with my students at school. Of course there are good-for-nothings around here, too. Sometimes it's because their parents don't care what they do, don't give them enough of their love and time. Or parents feel helpless because they do not know how to deal with a child. (BTW, that does not mean that they don't spank them, even if it's unlawful.) So one thing has got nothing whatsoever to do with the other.

All those of you who are spanked and intend to do so with their own children: Please visit parenting classes. There you will be shown ways how to bring up a child without physical violence.

If you only want to listen to parents/grandparents, then you can listen to her. :)


genocide was perfectly normal.
Pillaging was perfectly normal.
Torture was perfectly normal.
Rape was perfectly normal.


You need to choose your arguements more carefully.

*nodds*

[stephofthenight]

mkay one last point here

i was spanked
shurugal was spanked
and i dont know who else but probably a lot of us on this fourm, yet we are all caring individuals
doesnt this prove that there isnt a long time effect of spanking.
its a consquence of an action, punishment.

[Pensive]

mkay one last point here

i was spanked
shurugal was spanked
and i dont know who else but probably a lot of us on this fourm, yet we are all caring individuals
doesnt this prove that there isnt a long time effect of spanking.
its a consquence of an action, punishment.

Many people who are abused (in the way you define what abuse is) - even they turn out to be good caring people (and not abusive for others) but this doesn't mean child abuse is the right thing to do.

Well, punishments are of many ways and every way is not fine. And this seems to be one of them to me.

[Granny5]

Children are not sheep. And anyway, shephards would keep on using their staff for sheep/goats even when they grow up. You can't do this in the case of a child. Shephards can lock up their sheep while parents can't put up their children away from the world (or if they do, the results are again not so good). Shephards 'own' their sheep. Sheep are even sold!

I was referring to the quote "Spare the rod and spoil the child". I did not mean to infer that children were sheep. Some could argue that grounding a child could be considered the same as locking them away from the world. As a parent of a 35, 30 and 25 year old, I can attest to the fact that there is still guiding to be done. Parenthood never ends. Being a parent doesn't come with instruction books so everyone has to do what they can to do the best that they can. Not until they are grown can one tell if they have done a good job, and anyone looking at my children will know that my husband and I have done an excellent job. But my main point was that guiding a child was a parents job, and beating wasn't a part of that job. Teaching them to be good citizens, good hearted people, good parents themselves, independent and loving is a parents job. If that takes a swat on the bottom every now and then, so be it. Spankings are the last step in the process.

[genoveva]

Spanking is a poor parenting choice. Parents need to educate themselves and obtain skills which will enable them to raise healthy and non-violent children. Spanking erodes the child-parent relationship.

Please refer to the following resources regarding why spanking is a poor choice. I especially encourage all of you who plan to have children in the future to at least check out these sources. It is easy for you to say how you would raise your children, but everything changes once you actually have them.

Some informative websites regarding why spanking is bad:

http://nospank.net/
www.neverhitachild.org
www.nopaddle.com/frames.asp
www.geocities.com/cddugan/homepage.html

Here are some short and concise articles about why spanking is bad:

"I Was Spanked And I'm Fine!"
by Jan Hunt PhD
www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/spanked.html

"Ten Reasons Not to Hit Your Kids"
by Jan Hunt PhD
www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html

"Twenty Alternative to Punishment"
by Aletha Solter, PhD
www.awareparenting.com/twenty.html

Some recommended books filled with options that are good alternatives to spanking:

Adventures in Gentle Discipline
by Hilary Flower

The Discipline Book
by Sears

Why Spanking Doesn't Work
by Michael J. Marshall

The Case Against Spanking
by Hyman A. Irwin EdD

Lastly, another valuable skill for anyone is non-violent communication. Here is a site that supports parents in using non-violent communication with their children:

www.cnvc.org/parents.html

[the silent x]

i was only spanked once, and that was because i put myself in a life-threatening situation (walking into a busy street when i was 2) the reason my dad spanked me was so that i would be afraid of the road until i learned how to respect it.

[Shurtugal]

that was exactly what my mum said. my parents didn't spank me for everything i did wrong. it was what was appropiate for that disobidiance.

[Redzeppelin]

Spanking is abuse!

Not as a fact; perhaps as an opinion. You cannot speak of this action as a definition of abuse ("is" means "="). It can be done in a loving, corrective way (just like it can be done in an abusive, harmful way). The act itself is not abusive - but it can be executed in an abusive way. I could say the same thing about TV and diet: what you allow your kids to watch and eat might actually be "abusive" if done in a certain way. But TV and diet are not in and of themselves harmful (well, the TV may actually be harmful no matter what...:) ).

Second, just because you raised your kids without them does not mean that such action will work successfully with all other children of the world.

[Granny5]

Red, I agree with you. Will wonders ever cease? Each child is different and all can't be treated alike or the same displine can't be used on each the same, even for the same behavior. Anything done without thought and without the child's best interest in mind could be abuse. Allowing children to grow up without guidance and displine as needed is abuse. I don't believe anyone would actually promote child abuse. I would much rather see my grandchildren spanked for biting than for them to be allowed to sit in front of the tv for hours on end or being allowed to eat anything they want without thought to nutrition.

[stephofthenight]

okay so i was spanked, my middle sister, was put in a corner, and my eldest sister was thumped...its what worked. every child has a displine method that will work better then others, you can thump me, put me in a corner/time out and it would bother me but spanking me did,..my sisters you could spank all day long and it wouldnt bother them, but put them in a corner, or just thump them and its like you killed them...

[genoveva]

or just thump them and its like you killed them...

Yes, it's just like you kill them. Hmmm... when you are violent towards a child, it is like you are killing part of them. You are disintegrating the trust relationship between the parent and child. And literally, some children do get killed from "thumps". Infants get shaken too hard and oops, their necks snap and all of a sudden they're dead. Oh, but mom or dad or live in boyfriend just wanted to teach the baby a lesson of not crying so much....etc. One thump to the head and oops, head injury! Little by slow, with every spanking, the child learns that they are powerless. They learn that there is an authority figure that will use physical power to make them do whatever they want them to do. Why not try communicating with words? Or show by example. If a child runs towards the street, instead of a spanking (which will really make them afraid of the spanker, not the street) why not talk about the safe way to cross the street and show by example?

[Pensive]

Red, I agree with you. Will wonders ever cease? Each child is different and all can't be treated alike or the same displine can't be used on each the same, even for the same behavior. Anything done without thought and without the child's best interest in mind could be abuse. Allowing children to grow up without guidance and displine as needed is abuse. I don't believe anyone would actually promote child abuse. I would much rather see my grandchildren spanked for biting than for them to be allowed to sit in front of the tv for hours on end or being allowed to eat anything they want without thought to nutrition.

I don't understand why does 'not spanking children' mean letting them do whatever they want to do? What makes you say that if I am not spanking my child for sitting in front of telivision for a lot of time, I can't put him away from it??


Yes, it's just like you kill them. Hmmm... when you are violent towards a child, it is like you are killing part of them. You are disintegrating the trust relationship between the parent and child. And literally, some children do get killed from "thumps". Infants get shaken too hard and oops, their necks snap and all of a sudden they're dead. Oh, but mom or dad or live in boyfriend just wanted to teach the baby a lesson of not crying so much....etc. One thump to the head and oops, head injury! Little by slow, with every spanking, the child learns that they are powerless. They learn that there is an authority figure that will use physical power to make them do whatever they want them to do. Why not try communicating with words? Or show by example. If a child runs towards the street, instead of a spanking (which will really make them afraid of the spanker, not the street) why not talk about the safe way to cross the street and show by example?

I have agreed with you from the start and all those who don't support spanking as a way to train children.

[Madhuri]

I simple don't approve of any type beating / spanking to teach a child a lesson. Here it's such a common thing. Parents beat up thier kids for minor mistakes, without warning or even trying to rectify it. It is also a common means of taking out the frustration from their daily lives. Children are so vulnerable and can't do anything against their parents, that often a minor mistake is taken as if a big crime has been commited and that nothing less than severe beating will do.

This does a lot of long term harm. I remember a friend of mine having such parents, and I can tell you, how underconfident she is, she can't argue, even if she is right she will just resign to the other persons views, she gets nervous very easily, and she is so afraid to voice her opinion lest she offended someone. She is a very beautiful (as in the inner beauty) person, but just look at what all the years of such treatment did to her. Her parents think that what they have is a disciplined child, but, I don't think so. I mean she isn't indisciplined, but the way she is.....is quite hopeless.

It is so important to deal with children properly, and parents should take advantage of the experience and their own life to analyse the situation. But spanking / beating is just not done !

I remember one incident she narrated -- She was very small, and like me, she too is not so fond of Maths. So, here one day her father decided to teach her some division. He taught her for a while, gave he some sums to solve, while she was trying to do it, he dozed off. When he woke up, he finds that she couldn't do it / did it wrong. This made him so angry that he just threw her off the bed, then the beatings began as to how bad she is, she can't learn a thing and all...She calls for her mother, she comes, but just stands there, and she too is saying to him that yeah she deserves it, do it some more :mad: . She was then left alone, and then for quite sometime no one talked to her, making her feel as if she is a disaster, and that not being able to solve certain sums is a hugely wrong thing to do.

When I heard of this, I was like...WHAT??!!! :eek2:

She as a child then was so confused, she didnt know what did she do so wrong that she had to be beaten up like that.

I was so enraged :mad:

I simple don't approve of such a treatment. Because, it not only does physical harm, it has emotional consequences too.

[Pensive]

I simple don't approve of any type beating / spanking to teach a child a lesson. Here it's such a common thing. Parents beat up thier kids for minor mistakes, without warning or even trying to rectify it. It is also a common means of taking out the frustration from their daily lives. Children are so vulnerable and can't do anything against their parents, that often a minor mistake is taken as if a big crime has been commited and that nothing less than severe beating will do.

This does a lot of long term harm. I remember a friend of mine having such parents, and I can tell you, how underconfident she is, she can't argue, even if she is right she will just resign to the other persons views, she gets nervous very easily, and she is so afraid to voice her opinion lest she offended someone. She is a very beautiful (as in the inner beauty) person, but just look at what all the years of such treatment did to her. Her parents think that what they have is a disciplined child, but, I don't think so. I mean she isn't indisciplined, but the way she is.....is quite hopeless.

It is so important to deal with children properly, and parents should take advantage of the experience and their own life to analyse the situation. But spanking / beating is just not done !

I remember one incident she narrated -- She was very small, and like me, she too is not so fond of Maths. So, here one day her father decided to teach her some division. He taught her for a while, gave he some sums to solve, while she was trying to do it, he dozed off. When he woke up, he finds that she couldn't do it / did it wrong. This made him so angry that he just threw her off the bed, then the beatings began as to how bad she is, she can't learn a thing and all...She calls for her mother, she comes, but just stands there, and she too is saying to him that yeah she deserves it, do it some more :mad: . She was then left alone, and then for quite sometime no one talked to her, making her feel as if she is a disaster, and that not being able to solve certain sums is a hugely wrong thing to do.

When I heard of this, I was like...WHAT??!!! :eek2:

She as a child then was so confused, she didnt know what did she do so wrong that she had to be beaten up like that.

I was so enraged :mad:

I simple don't approve of such a treatment. Because, it not only does physical harm, it has emotional consequences too.

Yeah, hitting students is quite common in schools too over here, on not being able to do sums. In most of the situations, I have witnessed that it rather spoils the children, makes them more obstinate rather than doing good for them.

[Madhuri]

Yeah, hitting students is quite common in schools too over here, on not being able to do sums. In most of the situations, I have witnessed that it rather spoils the children, makes them more obstinate rather than doing good for them.

Very correct !! Its the same here too.

But, a week or so back, I read in the news that a new law has come, where even if the teacher calls the student and 'idiot,' he/she can be booked. I can't say in this case though how reasonable it is. Although, I am not in favour of hitting, but, this law seems as if its now the teachers turn, even a the slightest mistake can have serious consequences for them. It seems to be in favour of the students more.

[stephofthenight]

spanking your child for MINOR mistakes and not giveing them a chance to correct it is wrong, but spanking them for something you have asked them not to do, explained how it is harmfull to them and what will happen if theydo it again, then it isnt just random spanking and the child will see it as i did this wrong and didnt listen, therforth this happend...not well im not sure what i did wrong. the important thing when spanking a child is to make sure they know what the did wrong. at the daycare i use to vaulenteer we spanked kids, but beffore we always asked them "do you know why" and they would tell us and then we would ask "how many times did i give you a chance to stop" and if they couldnt answer those two questions we would explain until they understood and then spank them.

[Pensive]

spanking your child for MINOR mistakes and not giveing them a chance to correct it is wrong, but spanking them for something you have asked them not to do, explained how it is harmfull to them and what will happen if theydo it again, then it isnt just random spanking and the child will see it as i did this wrong and didnt listen, therforth this happend...not well im not sure what i did wrong. the important thing when spanking a child is to make sure they know what the did wrong. at the daycare i use to vaulenteer we spanked kids, but beffore we always asked them "do you know why" and they would tell us and then we would ask "how many times did i give you a chance to stop" and if they couldnt answer those two questions we would explain until they understood and then spank them.

Spanking is overall wrong.

Just tell me one thing, I have asked this question amongst some other unanswered ones (yet) in one of my previous posts that why do you feel the need to spank them if children do understand you and as you say it doesn't hurt either. When children have understood, why do you feel the need to hit them? What good is it?

[stephofthenight]

becuase its dicipline, and if telling them the first 3 times didnt work then a 4th time probaby wont, and it teaches them to listen and that there only going to get so many chances and that your serious about what you say and xpect them to do it...

if you where spanked as a kid your more likely to understand, those who wenrt probably wont ever understand it simple fact of been there done that, vs. never been thre but herd that...

[Shurtugal]

yes, exactly. each child is different and should be punished in different ways. for me and my older brother it was spanking. for my other older brother it was ocassionally spanking but mostly grounding or writting a 1000 times as to my younger sister.

and i must ask that we keep from thinking spanking his hitting or abusing. when you spank it is only on the rear. no where else. but slapping can be any where, on the arm on the cheek, any WHERE! and concluding spanking is abusive, you couldn't be more wrong. unless you use it an abusive way.

and could we (those who believe it is all right to be spanked) have living proof that it did wrong. no, not people who studied it. but someone saying, "i was spanked as a child and the outcomes where...." whatever it may be. having any abusive referance like if they added that they were beaten doesn't count 'cause then we are going into another world. only having the words i was spanked, that's it, nothing more. not being from any other person who wasn't spanked, it has to be from the person who was.

[Bakiryu]

Children need to learn respect. I'm shocked by the way most teenagers talk to their parents! If I talked that way to my mother she would slap me!

Spanking as a child isn't really abuse it makes the child learn. As long as the parent restrains from using excessive force.

For example, when I was in school my teacher hit me and now i respect every teacher.

My mom rarely hit me but when she did she taught me rules and obedience.
To be true, small children DO NOT LISTEN. They don't care and they need to learn before is too late.

Spanking is morally correct.

[Shurtugal]

two thumbs way,way up for baki!!!!

[stephofthenight]

someone break out the pom pom's
go bariku go! lol

double thums up

[Pensive]

becuase its dicipline, and if telling them the first 3 times didnt work then a 4th time probaby wont, and it teaches them to listen and that there only going to get so many chances and that your serious about what you say and xpect them to do it...

Then you shouldn't even say that you would hit them.


if you where spanked as a kid your more likely to understand, those who wenrt probably wont ever understand it simple fact of been there done that, vs. never been thre but herd that...

Hmmm I don't see any logic behind this that how can a person not disapprove of something that's not right until or unless she/he has experienced it herself/himself.


yes, exactly. each child is different and should be punished in different ways. for me and my older brother it was spanking. for my other older brother it was ocassionally spanking but mostly grounding or writting a 1000 times as to my younger sister.

And it doesn't have to be anything related to physical violence.


and i must ask that we keep from thinking spanking his hitting or abusing. when you spank it is only on the rear. no where else. but slapping can be any where, on the arm on the cheek, any WHERE! and concluding spanking is abusive, you couldn't be more wrong. unless you use it an abusive way.

Spanking can be done with a stick. One can put an extreme force in it, and in many cases this is the way it's done.


and could we (those who believe it is all right to be spanked) have living proof that it did wrong. no, not people who studied it. but someone saying, "i was spanked as a child and the outcomes where...." whatever it may be. having any abusive referance like if they added that they were beaten doesn't count 'cause then we are going into another world. only having the words i was spanked, that's it, nothing more. not being from any other person who wasn't spanked, it has to be from the person who was.

Sorry Shurtugal, I am not exactly sure what you mean over here. Perhaps you mean that if you are satisfied with it, with the fact that you were spanked then those who were not, shouldn't comment then let me tell you that there was a time when wives were beaten, and in some cases wives were okay with it too. It doesn't mean people shouldn't have stood up against that.


Children need to learn respect. I'm shocked by the way most teenagers talk to their parents! If I talked that way to my mother she would slap me!

Even children who are spanked talk in this way to their parents and those who are not, don't. What does this tell?



Spanking as a child isn't really abuse it makes the child learn. As long as the parent restrains from using excessive force.

Learn what? Learn along with other things that using violence is the right way if your oponent is being stupid and is weaker than you.


For example, when I was in school my teacher hit me and now i respect every teacher.

When I was in school a teacher of mine hit a classfellow (not very hard) and he started talking awfully about her and became more obstinate.


My mom rarely hit me but when she did she taught me rules and obedience.
To be true, small children DO NOT LISTEN. They don't care and they need to learn before is too late.

If small children do not listen, then do you think they can listen to a stick?

[Shurtugal]

Sorry Shurtugal, I am not exactly sure what you mean over here. Perhaps you mean that if you are satisfied with it, with the fact that you were spanked then those who were not, shouldn't comment then let me tell you that there was a time when wives were beaten, and in some cases wives were okay with it too. It doesn't mean people shouldn't have stood up against that.

no, i was asking that could we have proof from people who were spanked that it did do something to them. and that they had nothing else done to them other then spanking and it had to be from that person, not from anyone else. under stand?

[Bakiryu]

Even children who are spanked talk in this way to their parents and those who are not, don't. What does this tell?


That the said children do not respect their parents. For example, if every time you insulted your parent he/she slapped you. Would you do it again?





Learn what? Learn along with other things that using violence is the right way if your opponent is being stupid and is weaker than you.




Lear that they cannot be disrespectful and should mind their parents. That (as Basic Principle of Society this): There are rules and if they break them, they WILL BE PUNISHED.





If small children do not listen, then do you think they can listen to a stick?

See above quote. Spanking helps an understanding of wrong and right.



no, i was asking that could we have proof from people who were spanked that it did do something to them. and that they had nothing else done to them other then spanking and it had to be from that person, not from anyone else. under stand?


Exactly: my dad beat me up with a fishing pole made of fiberglass; it didn't do nothing to me. Threw a shoe at my face and broke my lip: nothing happened.

And these are examples of EXTREME VIOLENCE: You need to seriously torture a child to do any lasting harm. You know: HIT him/her too hard or psychological violence.


Spanking only bruises your ego (and maybe your arsch)

[stephofthenight]

[/QUOTE]
Hmmm I don't see any logic behind this that how can a person not disapprove of something that's not right until or unless she/he has experienced it herself/himself.
[/QUOTE]


im sorry forgive me if i am rude here as i have no tolerance for people who cant grasp simple concepts...

okay.

if you get stepped on by a horse you know that it hurts bad, and then u go tell someone who had never been stepped on and they will assume theyu know exactly...that is what yall are doing...

im saying that if you where never spanked, then you dont kow if its abuse.

yes hitting your child becuase you can is wrong. let us stop with that argument
yes beating your chid is wrong let us drop that one

no, a smack on the bottom is not wrong when it is done for correction of something that they know is wrong!

i personaly know that it helped me become who i am today, otherwise i would have never learned that running in the middle of the street was bad...and other potentioaly dangerous things, in those circumstances a smack on the butt can teach a child that the road is bad.

now back to the if uve nver been there u dont know

mmkay pre-civil war

u go to a plantation, your against slavery, you assume they are abused and hurt, yet the slaves would tell might tell you that there owner was fair...

its like spanking,
some parents abuse there kids by hitting them,
some parents spank there kids
yet you automaticly assme there the same becuase you havent been with that persons family you dont know what they did to deserve that spanking, if they put there life in danger, or anything like that you just judge...

and i feel the only person who has the right to judge is god, if spanking was so bad god would condone it, but he doesnt! he does condone talking and disrespecting your parents, and a swift smack on the butt will help solve that, therforth helping a child learn the ten commandments and learn to respect thre parents rules and gods rules...so go ahead condone spanking, condone god...and when the world falls apart even more, and yout pregnacy, drug use,crime ,rape and murder all go up, understand that it could have been prevented and the blame lays strictly on those who wouldnt dicipline there kids.


thank way back to the horse and wagon days, everyone spanked there kids and you never heard of rape, or mmurder, everyone was kinda and respectufull...

1900's early, kids respected parents, and crime was still realy low..kids got spanked

2000's kids dont get spanked anymore becaue everyone wants to scream abuse,,,crime is up, kids yell at parntes and hav eno respect for themselfs or others.

notice something, when you take spanking out of the equation and the ability to dicipline out of the picture...crime goes up..

so stop diciping children and hand them over to satan, be my guest, but my children will be respectfull with morals and values and i guarntee you they wont be pregnet, they wont drop out, and they will be verry sucsessfull people and i do plan on taking my hand to there bottom when they screw up! but at the same time my child wont be involced in drugs,gangs,or crime...

so think about what ive said and think about what you want your children to be into ,and if you want them to be respectufll to others and themselfs..teach them morals and dicipline, or hand them to satan and say goodbye.

[Pensive]

That the said children do not respect their parents. For example, if every time you insulted your parent he/she slapped you. Would you do it again?

Yes, if a child has been slapped by his parents for having done something bad, it's not necessary he would stop. If that was so, you people shouldn't have had received a second smack.


Lear that they cannot be disrespectful and should mind their parents. That (as Basic Principle of Society this): There are rules and if they break them, they WILL BE PUNISHED.

Yes, they shouldn't be disrespectful towards those who deserve that respect (and in most of the cases, parents certainly do) and as for the basic principles of societies, wouldn't like to argue about it over here because they have been changing and they differ from place to place.

But if they are rules, and they break them, can't they be punished in another way? Does this have to be the way which makes violence look a kind of acceptable?


See above quote. Spanking helps an understanding of wrong and right.

There are other better ways.


Exactly: my dad beat me up with a fishing pole made of fiberglass; it didn't do nothing to me. Threw a shoe at my face and broke my lip: nothing happened.

If it did 'nothing' to you then what good was it?


no, i was asking that could we have proof from people who were spanked that it did do something to them. and that they had nothing else done to them other then spanking and it had to be from that person, not from anyone else. under stand?


And these are examples of EXTREME VIOLENCE: You need to seriously torture a child to do any lasting harm. You know: HIT him/her too hard or psychological violence.

EVEN If it doesn't do any everlasting harm (though I disagree because this thing can lead to a child believing dealing with those who disagree with him with physical torture is fine and I believe it's quite harmful) does this mean transitory physical torture is fine? You seem to be suggesting so.



Spanking only bruises your ego (and maybe your arsch)

It can do much more.

[Bakiryu]

Pensive, a question: Have you ever been spanked?

[genoveva]

[/QUOTE]
im saying that if you where never spanked, then you dont kow if its abuse.
[/QUOTE]

Some people are abused and don't realize that they are being abused. They deny that they are being abused. The victim sympathize with their abuser. This is what I am hearing from some people who are making excuses for their parents for spanking them.

[Bakiryu]

im saying that if you where never spanked, then you dont kow if its abuse.
[/QUOTE]

Some people are abused and don't realize that they are being abused. They deny that they are being abused. The victim sympathize with their abuser. This is what I am hearing from some people who are making excuses for their parents for spanking them.[/QUOTE]

I'm not making excuses for my parents thought: I DO KNOW: that my fathers is a psycho. :)

[Shurtugal]

oy!!! ok, let me make this clear there is a BIG difference from BEATING a child AND SPANKING a child. so lets keep to ONE SUBJECT, NOT BOTH. (did that so no one can say they didn't see that) we all know that BEATING IS WRONG. no question about it. can we at least AGREE with that. but our debation is wether or not SPANKING a child is WRONG and WHY?

[Niamh]

this is my one and only contibution to this thread. It is an encyclopedia definition of Spanking

Definitions
Spanking, by today's definition, consists of striking the buttocks, usually as a physical punishment, with either an open hand or various implements including a cane, a belt or strap, various types of whips such as the martinet and the tawse, a switch or other form of rod, a paddle, some curious devices such as the electric so-called spanker and trickster paddling machines, or various household objects designed for other purposes, such as a slipper, a wooden spoon, a bath brush, a wooden ruler or a hairbrush.

In the United States and Canada, all discipline applied to the posterior is usually known as spanking. In Britain and many Commonwealth countries is smacking or whacking used as the general term; with spanking usually referring to bare-handed discipline (as opposed to implement-specific forms of padd spanking such as ling, caning, birching and slippering).

There are many alternative terms, often linked with an implement (such as belting, caning, whipping), but also sometimes used more generally (such as thrashing, dressing-down (though this often refers to the lecture that precedes the actual spanking and perhaps refers to the undressing of the buttocks that often occurs during the lecture) , whacking.....rest of article found on following page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking
I've highlighted in italics the alternative terms used for the word spanking and the alternative objects used other than the hand. And a lot of these would hurt, leave bruises, welts and cuts, both external, and i'm sure, internal scaring. These are forms of spanking that have been used not only by Parents but teachers or schools in the past. The trama left by such experiences is way corporal punishment has been banned in most countries, and that includes spanking in any form by parents.:)

[Granny5]

I can't believe anyone would hit a child with some of the things listed here. When I say I believe that in some cases for some children a spanking is a proper form of displine, I am referring to swatting on the bottom with an open hand. And that is for very serious infractions of acceptable behavior. No one advocates abusing a child that I know of, and if I did know, I would report them to the authorities.

[rabid reader]

I can't believe anyone would hit a child with some of the things listed here. When I say I believe that in some cases for some children a spanking is a proper form of displine, I am referring to swatting on the bottom with an open hand. And that is for very serious infractions of acceptable behavior. No one advocates abusing a child that I know of, and if I did know, I would report them to the authorities.

well at least they aren't listing pistol butts and broad swords

[Shalot]

this has turned into a discussion about discipline but I want to change course a bit. In the original post it said this:

HE ASKED ME A RHETORICAL QUESTION, "WHY DIDN'T WE HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP?"

I just don't understand this statement/question.

This is stupid because mankind has always been on drugs. Granted, this meth lab business has me completely baffled because I don't know why anyone would want to mix up and heat a bunch of household chemicals and sudafed and then inject/snort/ingest. I just don't get it.

And I think I got this in an email before from one of my all-american co-workers who likes to send these types of emails around. She sends prayer chains, petitions to Congress about how we're losing our country (I won't say anymore here), and those good luck friendship emails with sick little pictures of kittens and rainbows that flash and if I don't send it on to 10 people I will have five years of bad luck.:rolleyes:

[Granny5]

I think there was always a drug problem in the US. You see old newsreels about Robert Mitchum being arrested for pot way back in the 40's...and opuim dens were everywhere in the big citys back in the 1800's. Laudnum, an opiumm elixir, was commonly abused by women in the 17th and 18th centuries. But in small town America drug abuse was mostly unheard of or maybe folks just didn't talk about it. The only "drug" problem I remember from when I was very young (10-13 years old) was a young man in my small town who was committed to the State Mental Hospital for sniffing model glue. That was big news in town. Not until the late 60's, during the Vietman war, did I hear about pot or anything else. I think it was around, I just don't think it had made it's way to the rural, small towns of the US. I think a lot of the growth was brought home by returning Vietman Vets who had sampled it over there.

[stephofthenight]

[QUOTE=Pensive;432129]Yes, if a child has been slapped by his parents for having done something bad, it's not necessary he would stop. If that was so, you people shouldn't have had received a second smack.

then how do you get that he shouldnt get a second spanking(a slap in the face should be verry rare i only had that done once and i regret what i told my mother to do) but otherwie you telling the kid he can do whatever he wantes...

Yes, they shouldn't be disrespectful towards those who deserve that respect (and in most of the cases, parents certainly do) and as for the basic principles of societies, wouldn't like to argue about it over here because they have been changing and they differ from place to place.

But if they are rules, and they break them, can't they be punished in another way? Does this have to be the way which makes violence look a kind of acceptable?



EVEN If it doesn't do any everlasting harm (though I disagree because this thing can lead to a child believing dealing with those who disagree with him with physical torture is fine and I believe it's quite harmful) does this mean transitory physical torture is fine? You seem to be suggesting so.

no it leadds to a respectfull kid, and when hes dealing with others he will remeber to respect there veiws, nd its not so much if they disagree. me and my parents disagree all the time but we discuss it and nothing is done about it so long as im respectfull. ..do not put words in my mouth, its very distatesfull...any torture is wrong, but a swat on the butt, is not torture...torture is is being grounded from the phone and internet:sick: that is torture, but a swat on the but is nothing.



pensive, where you spanked as a child...not abused but spanked?

[Pensive]

then how do you get that he shouldnt get a second spanking(a slap in the face should be verry rare i only had that done once and i regret what i told my mother to do) but otherwie you telling the kid he can do whatever he wantes...

You mentioned yourself about how productive it is and Bakiryu also that when she was first hit by her teacher, from that time she started to respect every teacher. If it was so good for you, then why did your parents feel the need to spank you again for the second time? It doesn't appear like you were spanked once or twice only.


no it leadds to a respectfull kid, and when hes dealing with others he will remeber to respect there veiws, nd its not so much if they disagree. me and my parents disagree all the time but we discuss it and nothing is done about it so long as im respectfull. ..do not put words in my mouth, its very distatesfull...any torture is wrong, but a swat on the butt, is not torture...torture is is being grounded from the phone and internet:sick: that is torture, but a swat on the but is nothing.


Yeah and when others would do something annoying, he would start smacking them too?



pensive, where you spanked as a child...not abused but spanked?


Pensive, a question: Have you ever been spanked?
I don't think it's very necessary to answer this. I don't have to be spanked or un-spanked to express my disapproval of this method for bringing up a child.

[genoveva]

HE ASKED ME A RHETORICAL QUESTION, "WHY DIDN'T WE HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP?"

I just don't understand this statement/question.

This is stupid because mankind has always been on drugs.

Yes. Alcohol, which is a drug, has been a source of problem for years. And, think of all the prescription drugs that people get hooked on and abuse and/or cause other problems for the user.

[kilted exile]

this has turned into a discussion about discipline but I want to change course a bit. In the original post it said this:

HE ASKED ME A RHETORICAL QUESTION, "WHY DIDN'T WE HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP?"

I just don't understand this statement/question.

This is stupid because mankind has always been on drugs. Granted, this meth lab business has me completely baffled because I don't know why anyone would want to mix up and heat a bunch of household chemicals and sudafed and then inject/snort/ingest. I just don't get it.

And I think I got this in an email before from one of my all-american co-workers who likes to send these types of emails around. She sends prayer chains, petitions to Congress about how we're losing our country (I won't say anymore here), and those good luck friendship emails with sick little pictures of kittens and rainbows that flash and if I don't send it on to 10 people I will have five years of bad luck.:rolleyes:

I agree here & do wonder exactly what period of time Wizard is referrring to. I am thinking it is nostalgia. Everyone likes to think that when they were growing up young people did what they were told etc. I dont know if anyone is familiar with a book by Alan Bestic in 1961, it is called "Turn Me On Man" and is about how terrible the drug situation is regarding people of 16-25 was then. These are the people who grew up in the '50s which so many like to think of as crime free & devoid of social problems - probably brought up in the manner Wiz would like to see take place now.....

[Granny5]

Meth is such a serious problem where I am from. It effects all ages and all classes (for lack of a better word) of people. I have a well educated family member who grew up in a very upper middle class home who became addicted to meth. This family member was early 40's in age and lost home, family, teeth, and both mental and physical health. It's very inexpensive and it's very easy to get. Folks from the lowest income bracket to the highest are addicted. It's just heartbreaking to see someone you've known for years, gone to church with, worked with become involved in this awful drug. And it pretty easy to tell after a while. Extreamly thin and their teeth start to rot out and very jittery. I have heard from seminars I have had to attend that it only takes one or two uses to become addicted.

[Lioness_Heart]

thank way back to the horse and wagon days, everyone spanked there kids and you never heard of rape, or mmurder, everyone was kinda and respectufull...

1900's early, kids respected parents, and crime was still realy low..kids got spanked

2000's kids dont get spanked anymore becaue everyone wants to scream abuse,,,crime is up, kids yell at parntes and hav eno respect for themselfs or others.

notice something, when you take spanking out of the equation and the ability to dicipline out of the picture...crime goes up..


Could I just say that this statement seems a little naive. There have been problems in all periods of history. I don't see how you can say that 'everyone was kinda and respectufull...' in 'the horse and wagon days', unless you've been there yourself. And there definately were rapes and murders in those days (I'm talking with a knowlege of English history anyway). In the 19th century, loads of kids were abused, even killed, and no-one cared. And there was still crime: a lot of murders in English cities, problems with Opium dens etc.

Yes, we do now have a problem with crime, but correlation does not show cause and effect: you cannot say that it is because there is less corporal punishment. There have been lots of other changes in our society that could account for that. Parenting probably is the key, but there are lots of other ways to foster love and respect within a family unit, and by extension into the world beyond, than by violence.

[rabid reader]

Could I just say that this statement seems a little naive. There have been problems in all periods of history. I don't see how you can say that 'everyone was kinda and respectufull...' in 'the horse and wagon days', unless you've been there yourself. And there definately were rapes and murders in those days (I'm talking with a knowlege of English history anyway). In the 19th century, loads of kids were abused, even killed, and no-one cared. And there was still crime: a lot of murders in English cities, problems with Opium dens etc.

Yes, we do now have a problem with crime, but correlation does not show cause and effect: you cannot say that it is because there is less corporal punishment. There have been lots of other changes in our society that could account for that. Parenting probably is the key, but there are lots of other ways to foster love and respect within a family unit, and by extension into the world beyond, than by violence.

Its funny because crime rates have been on a vast decline since the 50s, there is little crime problem, just violence feed news corporations

[Niamh]

Could I just say that this statement seems a little naive. There have been problems in all periods of history. I don't see how you can say that 'everyone was kinda and respectufull...' in 'the horse and wagon days', unless you've been there yourself. And there definately were rapes and murders in those days (I'm talking with a knowlege of English history anyway). In the 19th century, loads of kids were abused, even killed, and no-one cared. And there was still crime: a lot of murders in English cities, problems with Opium dens etc.

Yes, we do now have a problem with crime, but correlation does not show cause and effect: you cannot say that it is because there is less corporal punishment. There have been lots of other changes in our society that could account for that. Parenting probably is the key, but there are lots of other ways to foster love and respect within a family unit, and by extension into the world beyond, than by violence.

Okay so i said that my Encyclopedia post was to be my only one... but i had to come and agree here. Crime rates in the past were just as bad as today. The best example of murders from the past is the Jack the Ripper case. Also note that child labour was a thing of the past in many of the "westernised" countries such as america, britain, france etc. Children as young as five were sent to work in factories, many were never to return home alive after a days work, whether they were killed on the job or nabbed by criminals. As Lioness said, opium dens were around so Drugs where also a thing of the past.
Child abuse by Parents also existed in the past where to some extent angered parent buried the children alive in chimneys.(thats true) Just cause spanking was around back then and and accepted doesnt mean life was better.

now thats me done.

[stephofthenight]

"If our culture encouraged us to be citizens rather than consumers then these kinds of issues wouldn't arise with such dreary frequency. Responsibility for one's actions within a society framework is something that can be taught and integrated into behavioural norms.
Alexis, Wales

Let's look at a role model of justice in this country. How can you expect kids to respect the law when they see corruption in high places! Of course kids are out of control-they have no infrastructure in which to work - everything is ok as long as you don't get caught! The fault lies with weak government who listen but do not act - leaving our streets a haven for muggers etc.
Adrian, UK

I'm not surprised at the way some kids are today. Go to any shopping centre and you'll see kids causing trouble, while the parents watch, or just can't be bothered.
Keith Jones, UK

Yes and why? Because they are not scared and let's face it, they have nothing to be scared of. Here in Australia, a guy was charged by police for speeding whilst driving his wife to hospital and yet youths who repeatedly steal and wreck cars get a slap on the wrist. Arab countries have it right - whip them - they'll behave for the rest of their lives.
John, Australia

I used to be a vulnerable teenager and have done some crazy things in my past. I was locked up on several occasions for arson. I am not asking for your forgiveness. What I want to make clear is that teenagers are very impressionable and follow trends to look so called "cool"! Maybe we should have legal ways of punishing young offenders instead of letting them back on the streets to create more crime."

-you can find the rest of the artical @ BBC news.com

i completly agree

[Shurtugal]

i'm sorry to say that i am lost on the topic, at thought we were having a debation wether spanking was right or wrong. i plead right.

[Bakiryu]

You mentioned yourself about how productive it is and Bakiryu also that when she was first hit by her teacher, from that time she started to respect every teacher. If it was so good for you, then why did your parents feel the need to spank you again for the second time? It doesn't appear like you were spanked once or twice only.

Yeah and when others would do something annoying, he would start smacking them too?

I don't think it's very necessary to answer this. I don't have to be spanked or un-spanked to express my disapproval of this method for bringing up a child.


Usually children behave because they fear punishment. Which leads to them behaving as they grow holder.

A comparison would be in the bible when god "The father" punished those who didn't believe in him. Didn't they behave then?

(I'm only using this as an example)

[genoveva]

Usually children behave because they fear punishment. Which leads to them behaving as they grow holder.



What kind of life is it to live out of fear? Why should children be made to fear when there is so much joy and happiness to be had out of life?

Children don't necessarily behave as they grow older because they have been punished. Many will be very anti-authoritarian.

Another good book on why punishments are bad is:

Alfie Kohn's
Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes

His new book also addresses why punishments are bad:

Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love and Reason

[Pensive]

Usually children behave because they fear punishment. Which leads to them behaving as they grow holder.

So when parents would be away, there would be no fear of punishment and they wouldn't behave. Children shouldn't be taught to behave with the help of imposing fear. They should have a basic understanding of why they should behave.


A comparison would be in the bible when god "The father" punished those who didn't believe in him. Didn't they behave then?

(I'm only using this as an example)

Well if we have brought religion in between, then I would like to mention most of the Prophets are reported have treated children kindly. Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was always affectionate towards children, if they used abuses on him, he would hear them out and would always teach them with the power of love. He is never reported to have been even a little harsh towards children.

I think same is the case with other religious personalities like Buddha, Isa, etc.

[Redzeppelin]

Perhaps it would be better to replace the word "fear" with "respect." Spanking a child is not equal to "hitting" them. A "spanking" is a particular way of "hitting" a child, in a particular part of the body (a rather absorbant part) for a particular reason. Done in the wrong way, for the wrong reason, with the wrong attitude, they can be abusive. Done correctly, they can do what other forms of discipline cannot accomplish - at least not with every child. Very often, parents who are screaming at their 15-year old kids who are defying them directly is a consequence of the parent's refusal to spank the child and establish the chain of command - that "time outs" and rational discussions didn't really impress upon the child the need to respect parents; kids who aren't made aware of who is in control become very unstable because their world has no clear control in it. It's an issue of respect, not fear.

[Granny5]

Perhaps it would be better to replace the word "fear" with "respect." Spanking a child is not equal to "hitting" them. A "spanking" is a particular way of "hitting" a child, in a particular part of the body (a rather absorbant part) for a particular reason. Done in the wrong way, for the wrong reason, with the wrong attitude, they can be abusive. Done correctly, they can do what other forms of discipline cannot accomplish - at least not with every child. Very often, parents who are screaming at their 15-year old kids who are defying them directly is a consequence of the parent's refusal to spank the child and establish the chain of command - that "time outs" and rational discussions didn't really impress upon the child the need to respect parents; kids who aren't made aware of who is in control become very unstable because their world has no clear control in it. It's an issue of respect, not fear.

Red, you are so right. In the past, I worked in law enforcement and my husband works for the juvenile court system. It is a very common thing now to see a parent argue/debate with a young teen. There is a time and place for such discussions between parent and child, but the police department after the child has been arrested isn't one of them. After over 20 years in his line of work, my husband says he can tell very quickly which children have received parenting and displine and which ones haven't. The ones who haven't he will see over and over again.

[bibliophile190]

Okay, here's my two cents worth. I was spanked a few times when I was younger. It was for things like lying and jumping on the bed when I'd been told not to several times. My parents had told me not to several times, and when I didn't stop or I mouthed off to them, they would swat me on the bottom. It never came near to abuse. I love my parents very much, I don't live in fear, I hold no grudges, and I definetly stopped doing it. And I'm not predisposed to violence because of it. Of course it's abuse if someone smacks you into a wall, but the pro-spankers on this board are simply advocating (from what I've gathered, correct me if I'm wrong) a butt-swat. It's okay that you disagree with this method, it's up to you how you discipline your children, but it's not okay to imply that the people who do spank are abusive, or morally defficient.