Perfect?

[Pensive]

Kim: What would be the word you would use to describe yourself?
Jim: Perfect.
Kim: Nobody/nothing is perfect.
Jim: Well, I am.
Kim: Then you are mistaken. I tell you, nothing/no one can be faultless, and so nothing can be perfect.
Jim: Says who! The one who is mistaken himself!

Now, tell me guys who is mistaken? Kim or Jim? This thing has been bugging in my mind today when I made a comment in my mind about how perfect A Wizard of Earthsea was! Then my own brain started this Kim-Jim argument. With whom do you agree? J or K? Or none? Or do you partly agree thinking that a thing can be perfect while a living thing can't be or vice-versa?

If you think a human-being/non-living-thing can be perfect, then do you think you know what makes it/him perfect? Or if you think nothing is perfect then why do you think this word is still surviving; in the dictionary as well as in the conversation of people. Well, I know other things (not very sensible) are still surviving in people's tongues, but then is it one of those not very sensible words/things you think? Perfect-ness? Or is this word like nothing is nothing but a contradiction? :p

[Bakiryu]

Perfection is being so kind and selfless that you do not think about yourself. Giving all you are to others even thought they shun or hate you.

I'm not a religious person but JESUS comes pretty close to perfection.

[Pensive]

Thanks for replying to the thread, Bakiryu! :)


Perfection is being so kind and selfless that you do not think about yourself. Giving all you are to others even thought they shun or hate you.

Ummm...I wonder how is this perfection? What do you think makes a person non-perfect then? Hating those who hate him?

[Bii]

Ideas can be perfect, anything corporeal is flawed. I'm with Plato on this one.

[ozbey]

Human being or non living things can't be perfect.Only their creator must be perfect.For my beliefs,Allah is perfect..

[Pensive]

Human being or non living things can't be perfect.Only their creator must be perfect.For my beliefs,Allah is perfect..

Ummm okay. Do you think that human-beings or non-living-things can't be perfect because they couldn't create themselves by their own choice? :confused:

[ozbey]

Ummm okay. Do you think that human-beings or non-living-things can't be perfect because they couldn't create themselves by their own choice? :confused:
Kind of.In my belief,this world is a kind of examination.All human beings fight against devil.But you can not find any human beings who always beat the devil.Devil is on work.Thats why,all we are defeated by devil.Everyone has mistakes.How many?nobody knows(we can't know everything.)But at least one time.Thats why,I am sorry nobody is perfect... :nod:

[EAP]

I am perfect.

[Pensive]

Kind of.In my belief,this world is a kind of examination.All human beings fight against devil.But you can not find any human beings who always beat the devil.Devil is on work.Thats why,all we are defeated by devil.Everyone has mistakes.How many?nobody knows(we can't know everything.)But at least one time.Thats why,I am sorry nobody is perfect... :nod:

Ummm so is the devil perfect which/who can't be beaten by anybody? Is it about defeating? Is perfection about gaining power? Is it about good-deeds? And for non-living-things, is it about their uses?


I am perfect.

So tell me, according to your belief, is devil perfect too? :p

[formality hater]

Everyone has his own meaning of "perfection".Something which is perfect in my eyes may not be so in someone else's view.Perfection is so difficult, or maybe impossible to achieve by a human being(one who cannot contemplate over its meaning well enough,that is why philosphers are still banging their heads;))

[Poetess]

Kim: What would be the word you would use to describe yourself?
Jim: Perfect.
Kim: Nobody/nothing is perfect.
Jim: Well, I am.
Kim: Then you are mistaken. I tell you, nothing/no one can be faultless, and so nothing can be perfect.
Kim: Says who! The one who is mistaken himself!


Do you mean the last Kim to be Jim? I mean is the last Kim a typo?

anyway.. Kim is right IMHO..
I believe that nothing/noone is perfect but God... well, this is what I believe, my opinion :)

[Pensive]

Kim: What would be the word you would use to describe yourself?
Jim: Perfect.
Kim: Nobody/nothing is perfect.
Jim: Well, I am.
Kim: Then you are mistaken. I tell you, nothing/no one can be faultless, and so nothing can be perfect.
Kim: Says who! The one who is mistaken himself!


Do you mean the last Kim to be Jim? I mean is the last Kim a typo?

anyway.. Kim is right IMHO..

Oops, sorry. Yes, that was a typo.


I believe that nothing/noone is perfect but God... well, this is what I believe, my opinion :)

Thanks for sharing your opinion! :)

[ozbey]

Again in my belief,devil is a loser.Because Allah sent it away from paradise,and it has no chance to turn back..Perfection is not about gaining power.It is all about mind and heart.If you believe in something with all your mind and heart,it will become perfect for you.For me perfection equals Allah.But I have always have respect for the others perfection understandings.Is it about good deeds?I don't think so.Doing good deeds only shows your loyalty to your beliefs.They don't make you perfect.They make you a good person but not perfect. for non-living-things it is all same.They can be useful.Not more.Useful and make life simple.Are these qualifications make something perfect?I don't think so.Anyway..These are all for me..What about you?What do you think about perfection?Devil is perfect for you?

[sam96]

I think someone can be perfect in someone else's eye because they like them,respect them or even get along with them.But other than that who is the judge of perfection and how does he or she decide if they judge on their terms then it's only perfect for them.
But not absolute perfection.I guess.

[EAP]

Pensive,


Devil?

All I know is I AM PERFECT.

[Pensive]

Everyone has his own meaning of "perfection".Something which is perfect in my eyes may not be so in someone else's view.Perfection is so difficult, or maybe impossible to achieve by a human being(one who cannot contemplate over its meaning well enough,that is why philosphers are still banging their heads)

Yes, and I don't like it when one has to bang his hand against the wall for the words which are supposed to make one's life easier! :(


Again in my belief,devil is a loser.Because Allah sent it away from paradise,and it has no chance to turn back..Perfection is not about gaining power.It is all about mind and heart.If you believe in something with all your mind and heart,it will become perfect for you.For me perfection equals Allah.But I have always have respect for the others perfection understandings.Is it about good deeds?I don't think so.Doing good deeds only shows your loyalty to your beliefs.They don't make you perfect.They make you a good person but not perfect. for non-living-things it is all same.They can be useful.Not more.Useful and make life simple.Are these qualifications make something perfect?I don't think so.Anyway..These are all for me..What about you?What do you think about perfection?Devil is perfect for you?

I think the image of devil is perfectly awful. Perfect, yes. Don't you agree? But I need enlightenment in this matter.


Pensive,


Devil?

All I know is I AM PERFECT.

You speak in a perfectly self-assured matter-of-fact-manner! :p Now this word perfect makes more sense... :D

[ozbey]

If you think devil is perfectly awful,that is right.But before we discussing about something,we need to understand the meanings of the words which we'll discuss.So,what is the meaning of perfection?We need to agree with its meaning.Here is the meaning;
Perfection is, broadly, a state of completeness and flawlessness.(From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)Are you agree about this description?If you are agree with this description,devil can't be perfect.Yes,devil is perfectly awful but being awful is not enough for completeness.Devil can be completeness about badness.But only badness.This is not enough.On the other hand,if you don't agree with description,please write your own...and we'll go on.

[Pensive]

If you think devil is perfectly awful,that is right.But before we discussing about something,we need to understand the meanings of the words which we'll discuss.So,what is the meaning of perfection?We need to agree with its meaning.Here is the meaning;
Perfection is, broadly, a state of completeness and flawlessness.(From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)Are you agree about this description?If you are agree with this description,devil can't be perfect.Yes,devil is perfectly awful but being awful is not enough for completeness.Devil can be completeness about badness.But only badness.This is not enough.On the other hand,if you don't agree with description,please write your own...and we'll go on.

Yes, being perfectly evil doesn't complete a devil, I agree. It's just one attribute. In the previous post, I meant that I finally had understood where the word 'perfect' can be useful. :) A part of my question is answered. This word, perfect, can be useful. For example: My scale is perfectly like the one I already had - both having six centimetres.

But the other part of the question still remains: What makes a person complete or perfect? What makes him flawless? How can we judge what is perfect and what is not? Does a person really have a right to call himself perfect?

[formality hater]

But the other part of the question still remains: What makes a person complete or perfect? What makes him flawless? How can we judge what is perfect and what is not? Does a person really have a right to call himself perfect?
A person may call himself perfect but that may not extend to other peoples view!

[BlueSkyGB]

Perfect is .....:)
a chocolate raspberry mocha, sitting on my back porch on a Sunday morning listening to Coltrane play jazz....:D

[ozbey]

Yes, being perfectly evil doesn't complete a devil, I agree. It's just one attribute. In the previous post, I meant that I finally had understood where the word 'perfect' can be useful. :) A part of my question is answered. This word, perfect, can be useful. For example: My scale is perfectly like the one I already had - both having six centimetres.

But the other part of the question still remains: What makes a person complete or perfect? What makes him flawless? How can we judge what is perfect and what is not? Does a person really have a right to call himself perfect?

I don't believe that a person can be perfect.If anyone says that i am perfect,this means he/she knows everything.Is this possible?I don't think so.Maybe this makes him/her imperfect.But every people have right to call himself/herself perfect.But how many people believe his/her perfection?I don't know:yawnb:

[Pensive]

Perfect is .....:)
a chocolate raspberry mocha, sitting on my back porch on a Sunday morning listening to Coltrane play jazz....:D

Nope, it is imperfect because it can not possess the taste the sherbat I am drinking right now has! :p

[BlueSkyGB]

Nope, it is imperfect because it can not possess the taste the sherbat I am drinking right now has! :p

Touche...:lol: :D :lol:

[thevintagepiper]

My belief is that only God is perfect and we are far from that without him. And the Bible says that we are "perfect in weakness" in only His strenth.
The rock band Flyleaf has a really good song called Perfect that says "Sick of circling the same road, sick of bearing the guilt - open the windows to cool off...and heat pours in instead.
All my efforts to clean me leave me putrid, filthy. How can You look at me when I can't stand myself?

I'm trying to be honest... I'm nobody.

I tried to kill you. You tried to save me..
You save me. You save me. You save me.

Perfect in weakness, I'm only perfect in just Your strength alone. I'm only running in just Your strength alone."


I think they're a pretty good example of what I mean.

[NikolaiI]

I agree with Jim, because what is Kim's assertion based on? It seems to be the most basic, most sacred, most unchallengeable belief in our society; nothing can be perfect. I say: no limitations. What you can imagine is possible: anything is possible. I agree with Jim and EAP because what is perfect? But if you say you are perfect, they will think you are missing something, that no one can be perfect.

It's all about view. One could say every person is perfect, and every act is perfect; everything is as it should be; that would be one view.

I have a hard time understanding why we can't be perfect. I don't think original sin has value or truth as a concept.

Like I said, no limitations; Peter Ragnar is a proponent of that, and he even challenges our ideas of the necessity of death; he's an amazing person, and an example of some of the highest things you can achieve.

[Video Drone]

Perfect is a term that doesn't mean anything particular. When people say someone is perfect they actually mean that certain qualities of that person are great. There are also different degrees of perfect. This word doesn't really have a meaning in this context. This means that anyone is perfect in one context or another.

[NikolaiI]

How about the Perfect Crime? :p

[rabid reader]

Perfection is an ideal, like it does not seem possible to obtain the Utopian Society, it also does not seem likely that one can become infallible. For example, does the perfect individual even stand to be described? What is it that makes a perfect person perfect? They obviously can never be wrong, right? Meaning they must no everything. But to know everything they must also no all the future don't they? All the past as well, and that seems as unlikely as the future as many historians can't agree what even happened in the past. So in the above case I don't think Jim has a leg to stand on, if he knew what Kim was gonna say a head of time, maybe, but even then it would seem questionable.

[Scheherazade]

Maybe we are perfect in our imperfection.

[NikolaiI]

Maybe we are perfect in our imperfection.

Yeah, or everything is perfect, or everything is beautiful, or everything is as it should be.


Perfection is an ideal, like it does not seem possible to obtain the Utopian Society, it also does not seem likely that one can become infallible. For example, does the perfect individual even stand to be described? What is it that makes a perfect person perfect? They obviously can never be wrong, right? Meaning they must no everything. But to know everything they must also no all the future don't they? All the past as well, and that seems as unlikely as the future as many historians can't agree what even happened in the past. So in the above case I don't think Jim has a leg to stand on, if he knew what Kim was gonna say a head of time, maybe, but even then it would seem questionable.

It all depends on what you mean by perfect. I don't think it necessarily means to be God, knowing everything, etc.

Could you be perfect for a short time, and then fall from perfection? or does it have to be once and always?

[Pensive]

Could you be perfect for a short time, and then fall from perfection? or does it have to be once and always?

Like in a flawless thing, flaws can be added, or a complete thing can be ruined and yet is deteriorated (far from complete then), perhaps a perfect thing can be made imperfect too?

[AndyRoo]

The peanut butter I am eating right now seems perfect. I can't find anything "wrong" with it. Maybe, if every bite I took put a million dollars into my bank account, then the peanut butter would become MORE perfect?

Seems to me like everything can be perfect, or perfection can be impossible. I think it's a choice.

[YesNo]

I normally don't think of anything being perfect or not. Some things I like better than others.

[yoki]

I normally don't think of anything being perfect or not. Some things I like better than others.

It seems to me that the urge to regard things in terms of degrees of perfection or imperfection is an expression of the 'splitting process' in operation (Melanie Klein... Object Relations theory). To value something as good/right or not good/wrong/bad is a basic and necessary human/animal process for survival. But generally, with experience, we sense and recognise that most things (things which aren't discrete, like mathematics) are some sort of blend/balance of good and not good according to whoever or whatever is doing the judging.

I'd like to say I mostly think like YesNo but my urge for perfection still hovers around. :aureola:

I liked example made in The Unbearable Lightness of Being - about the consequences of moving towards intolerance of imperfection.

[YesNo]

Perhaps the "intolerance of imperfection" is a motivation to make things better.

[Tyrion Cheddar]

Why is it Kim and Jim? Does Jim like Kim-chi? Or does Kim like Slim Jims?

[YesNo]

Tyrion Cheddar! You are back! That is perfection enough!

[Tyrion Cheddar]

Tyrion Cheddar! You are back! That is perfection enough!

<Bow, scrape, curtsy> Why, thank ye.

[YesNo]

I hope to see more pictures from your new phone.

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I signed up for a daily email from the Blue Mountain Center of Meditation called "Eknath Easwaran's Thought for the Day" years ago. This is the source for today: http://www.easwaran.org/thoughts-for-the-day-quotes.html?utm_source=Thought+for+the+Day+email&utm_campaign=2292451569-RSS_TFTD&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9909afe5c6-2292451569-86048589

The reason I thought of this thread was because of this quote from Saint Bernard in last night's email, "for there is never full knowledge without perfect love."

Both knowledge and love are subjective realities. Computers without subjectivity can neither know something nor love something at least as computers. Maybe as the quantum particles making up computers they can do something like this. I don't know.

There are paradoxes based on perfect projections, or objectifications, of knowledge and our subjective knowledge comes up with them. I wonder if there are similar paradoxes for perfect projections, or objectifications, of love?